Auris V CT200h

obi604

Having a look at above car in 2013-2014 range. ( Auris and CT200h.

It seems the auris is more expensive than the Lexus.

I would have presumed that the Lexus would be more expensive etc , Any ideas why it seems cheaper than an Auris second hand. ?

colm_mcm

The Lexus is a bit unknown, plus the Auris tend to be newer, a lot of the cheap CTs are very high mileage. The CT has a smaller boot, which limits appeal. The CT and IS hybrids can be very good value in Northern Ireland.

obi604

colm_mcm wrote: »

The Lexus is a bit unknown, plus the Auris tend to be newer, a lot of the cheap CTs are very high mileage. The CT has a smaller boot, which limits appeal. The CT and IS hybrids can be very good value in Northern Ireland.

Hi.

Thanks. Do you mean the general population don’t really know about the CT200H?

colm_mcm

obi604 wrote: »

Hi.

Thanks. Do you mean the general population don’t really know about the CT200H?

Exactly. Lexus didn't really advertise them. They would have been moderately popular with company car drivers in the UK.
Toyota pushed the Prius a lot more than the Lexus CT, and as a result they're a bit of a bargain second hand.

obi604

colm_mcm wrote: »

Exactly. Lexus didn't really advertise them. They would have been moderately popular with company car drivers in the UK.
Toyota pushed the Prius a lot more than the Lexus CT, and as a result they're a bit of a bargain second hand.

Ok. Noted.

Do could be a decent bit then.

I know they have the CVT in them snd supposded yo be very noisy when accelerating

colm_mcm

Same as a Prius. Not that much of an issue in reality.

Leonard Hofstadter

obi604 wrote: »

I know they have the CVT in them snd supposded yo be very noisy when accelerating

That's just what CVT boxes are like in general, they feel like a manual when the clutch is slipping when you accelerate cause the revs soar.

Casati

They are a reliable car and the interior is a step up over the Auris but the boot is tiny and rear seat space small too. Drivetrain is the same and the cvt will annoy some drivers but others won’t care either way. If cheaper than an Auris then you’d right to give them a second look

TBi

obi604 wrote: »

I know they have the CVT in them snd supposded yo be very noisy when accelerating

I never understand this argument, especially when ppl recommend diesel instead. It’s a car that can be noisy when accelerating hard vs a diesel which is loud and rattly all the time. I’ve an IS300h and most of the time it’s sublimely quiet. I’d rather the occasional engine roar vs the constant rattle of a diesel.

Del2005

obi604 wrote: »

I know they have the CVT in them snd supposded yo be very noisy when accelerating

I've a CVT box in my car and it's no noisier than any other car I've had when accelerating. It's kept at peak torque so you get the most efficient acceleration.

The only slight issue is that there is zero engine braking, a normal auto has a bit, which might catch out someone coming from a manual.

ION08

Del2005 wrote: »

I've a CVT box in my car ... It's kept at peak torque so you get the most efficient acceleration.

Genuine question, but if they are kept at peak torque for optimum acceleration why are they so slow???

The Is300h for example has a 2.5 petrol + Hybrid for a combined output of 223bhp, you would think that with a CVT which holds revs at peak torque for optimal acceleration, it could do better than a frankly pathetic 8.3 second dash to 100kmh

TBi

ION08 wrote: »

Genuine question, but if they are kept at peak torque for optimum acceleration why are they so slow???

The Is300h for example has a 2.5 petrol + Hybrid for a combined output of 223bhp, you would think that with a CVT which holds revs at peak torque for optimal acceleration, it could do better than a frankly pathetic 8.3 second dash to 100kmh

Never noticed mine to be slow. In gear acceleration is very good. 0-100 is meaningless unless you are racing. The issue is not speed, just the time it takes to go from battery only to full engine mode. There is a pause while it 'thinks' about it leading to the high time. A lot of people on youtube get faster times by holding the brake and accelerator to get the engine on, when you leave off the brake you hit 100 a lot faster.

One thing you will notice is that it doesn't 'feel' fast because you don't get the kick like a diesel. Instead of acceleration coming in surges you get a constant acceleration.

ION08

TBi wrote: »

Never noticed mine to be slow. In gear acceleration is very good. 0-100 is meaningless unless you are racing. The issue is not speed, just the time it takes to go from battery only to full engine mode. There is a pause while it 'thinks' about it leading to the high time. A lot of people on youtube get faster times by holding the brake and accelerator to get the engine on, when you leave off the brake you hit 100 a lot faster.

One thing you will notice is that it doesn't 'feel' fast because you don't get the kick like a diesel. Instead of acceleration coming in surges you get a constant acceleration.

Ok interesting, so how would "in gear acceleration" compare to a comparable TDI , let's say to a BMW 325d (215bhp)

A BMW 325d covers 0-100kmh in 6.8secs

I know that 0-100kmh sprint is meaningless unless your are drag racing but none-the-less, it serves s a good basis of comparison.

I would wager that the 325d would leave the is300h for dead even "in gear" when on the move.

The is 300h is a car I really want to like because i think it looks fantastic, especially in F Sport guise ... but the performance on offer for a car with supposedly 223bhp on tap is just too disappointing (at least on paper)

TBi

IS300h competes with the 320d, not the 325d.

As said earlier, i bought it to get away from Diesels. I don't mind if it's 0.1s slower to 100.

I think you should get a 325d. There are only a few IS300h's around. I like the exclusivity.

ION08

TBi wrote: »

IS300h competes with the 320d, not the 325d.

As said earlier, i bought it to get away from Diesels. I don't mind if it's 0.1s slower to 100.

I think you should get a 325d. There are only a few IS300h's around. I like the exclusivity.

I dont buy that.

The 320d and 325d are both 2.0 litre diesels.

The 320d = 184bhp and the 325d = 215Bhp ...

The Is300= 223bhp so I think the 325d is a closer match.

As regards exclusivity, I dont know. I have seeen a good few is300’s around as of late.

I dont want to “get a 325d”... I’m just using it as a basis of comparison. I’m happy enough in my Audi 3.0TDI V6 Quattro ... my point is that should I also ever want to get away from diesels, the Is300h doesnt really make a compelling alternative due to the poor performance on offer...

Looks great and all, but disappointing performance from what is a 2.5 petrol plus hybrid supposedly pushing out 223bhp through an “acceleration optimising” CVT.

Can only hope that the economy is also not as disappointing?

bazz26

Maybe a more similar comparison would be the Lexus IS300h and BMW 330e? Both are petrol/electric hybrids, though one is battery powered while the other is plug in. The performance from the 330e is vastly superior than that of the IS300h.

Zurbaran

Was going to buy a car last year for between 6 to 10k but decided to put it all into buying a house instead. Nearly have that sorted now so I'm seriously considering an IS 300h for my next car in about 6 months. A few less mpg but looks, exclusivity, refinement and reliability is what is sending me that way. One of the main things I don't like is the infotainment system looks terrible when compared to the competition.

Bill Griffin has a 2014 with 83k there for €16,400 which looks a fair price to me but I'm hoping to get one with lower miles for a similar price. Going to the UK would probably be best.

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1902042&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D44%26o%5B%5D%3D944%26pp%3D50%26g%3D0

TBi

Zurbaran wrote: »

Was going to buy a car last year for between 6 to 10k but decided to put it all into buying a house instead. Nearly have that sorted now so I'm seriously considering an IS 300h for my next car in about 6 months. A few less mpg but looks, exclusivity, refinement and reliability is what is sending me that way. One of the main things I don't like is the infotainment system looks terrible when compared to the competition.

The infotainment system looks a bit naff but works really well when you get used to it. I find i get around it faster than the iDrive on my i3. Although that said i do prefer iDrive overall and i think the swivel knob is a better interface.

bazz26 wrote: »

Maybe a more similar comparison would be the Lexus IS300h and BMW 330e? Both are petrol/electric hybrids, though one is battery powered while the other is plug in. The performance from the 330e is vastly superior than that of the IS300h.

330e is a different beast. The IS300h doesn't compete with it. They only match on price due to the government grant, but without this the 330e is a lot more expensive car. The 330e is faster but has a tiny boot.

bazz26

TBi wrote: »

330e is a different beast. The IS300h doesn't compete with it. They only match on price due to the government grant, but without this the 330e is a lot more expensive car. The 330e is faster but has a tiny boot.

But my point is that the 330e is BMW's hybrid equivalent of the Lexus IS300h rather than comparing it to a 320d. IS300h performance is disappointing despite the claimed 223bhp.

TBi

bazz26 wrote: »

But my point is that the 330e is BMW's hybrid equivalent of the Lexus IS300h rather than comparing it to a 320d. IS300h performance is disappointing despite the claimed 223bhp.

They are both hybrids but not in the same segment. IS300h is Lexus equivalent to 320d or C200. It is priced as such. The 330e is same power as 330i/330d so a different class of car and before subsidies is priced as such.

Del2005

ION08 wrote: »

Genuine question, but if they are kept at peak torque for optimum acceleration why are they so slow???

The Is300h for example has a 2.5 petrol + Hybrid for a combined output of 223bhp, you would think that with a CVT which holds revs at peak torque for optimal acceleration, it could do better than a frankly pathetic 8.3 second dash to 100kmh

The way the gearbox works is that 2 cylinders move to so there is no need to drop the power for gear changes, even the fastest auto boxes have to stop accelerating to change gear. Because of this the engine can maintain peak power all the time. A car is as fast or slow as the manufacturer wants it to be, the Leaf is shockingly slow for a vehicle that has peak torque from zero. My GS450h is not slow

bazz26

TBi wrote: »

They are both hybrids but not in the same segment. IS300h is Lexus equivalent to 320d or C200. It is priced as such. The 330e is same power as 330i/330d so a different class of car and before subsidies is priced as such.

But how many 320d buyers went with a the IS300h instead when the 330e was for the same money as the IS300h. Buyer doesn't care about what it cost pre EV grants, only the bottom line price which put it as a rival to the IS300h which has inferior performance.

TBi

Del2005 wrote: »

A car is as fast or slow as the manufacturer wants it to be, the Leaf is shockingly slow for a vehicle that has peak torque from zero. My GS450h is not slow

A leaf is restricted by the inverter, the motor would be more powerful if the inverter was better/bigger.

TBi

bazz26 wrote: »

But how many 320d buyers went with a the IS300h instead when the 330e was for the same money as the IS300h. Buyer doesn't care about what it cost pre EV grants, only the bottom line price which put it as a rival to the IS300h which has inferior performance.

I bought a IS300h over a 330e due to price (cheaper second hand) and a usable boot. Other people might choose performance over practicality and reliability. I plan to keep the IS for a long time. With the BMW i'd have the turbo to worry about, and the chain and belts... All which the IS doesn't have.

Anyway, buy what you want. I bought what was best for me but was almost dissuaded by all the bad reviews. The reviewers all seem to hate the IS300h but after owning one i don't understand why. It might be a little slower 0-100 but it excels in other areas.

ION08

TBi wrote: »

They are both hybrids but not in the same segment. IS300h is Lexus equivalent to 320d or C200.

I don't know why you keep trying to delude everyone with this?

The Is300h has 223 BHP

The 320d has 184bhp and a C200 has 170bhp at best.

The similarly powered variants to the Lexus would be the 325d (215Bhp) and C250d (204Bhp)

bazz26 wrote: »

IS300h performance is disappointing despite the claimed 223bhp.

Exactly my point!

Del2005 wrote: »

My GS450h is not slow

Again, the Gs450h packs a 3.5 litre petrol engine + Hybrid and CVT. It is a fast car generally speaking... but again, I reckon it would struggle against an equivalent A6 3.0TDI or a BMW 535d ...

bazz26

TBi wrote: »

I bought a IS300h over a 330e due to price (cheaper second hand) and a usable boot. Other people might choose performance over practicality and reliability. I plan to keep the IS for a long time. With the BMW i'd have the turbo to worry about, and the chain and belts... All which the IS doesn't have.

Anyway, buy what you want. I bought what was best for me but was almost dissuaded by all the bad reviews. The reviewers all seem to hate the IS300h but after owning one i don't understand why. It might be a little slower 0-100 but it excels in other areas.

I'm not trying to offend you or any IS300h owners about your choice in cars. It would definitely have advantages in terms of reliability and the fact you don't need to plug it into the wall. I was just making the point that the 330e is more comparable than a 320d.

TBi

bazz26 wrote: »

I was just making the point that the 330e is more comparable than a 320d.

I understand your point but it is the equivalent of saying a 345i is comparable a C180 because they are both petrol. That's the point i was making.

The 330e is a nice car though. If we didn't need the boot space (or if they made an estate version) i would have shortlisted it.

obi604

In regard to Auris and CT200h, are they less complicated to maintain from a service point of view than a normal car?

colm_mcm

obi604 wrote: »

In regard to Auris and CT200h, are they less complicated to maintain from a service point of view than a normal car?

Than a diesel, yes. Than a regular normally aspirated petrol then no. Things likes brakes last forever on them so that's a bonus. Servicing is the same as a basic petrol really, oil & filter, air filter, spark plugs etc.
The hybrid bits are pretty much maintenance free, but owners of Prius's recommend changing the gearbox oil.

bbbbb

Bought an Is300h from the uk last year, very happy with it.
If you flick from normal to sport mode, then the performance is (mostly) there, but I guess you're also carrying an extra 100-200 kg compared to a similar petrol/diesel due to the batteries and hybrid system?
Mostly though, I find it a very relaxed and comfortable drive.
Driver engagement? More 'drive by wire' I would say

colm_mcm

Do you have the fake nose on or off bbbb?

bbbbb

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you have the fake nose on or off bbbb?

ASC (active sound control)? Was turned off when I got it and haven’t switched it on.

ION08

bbbbb wrote: »

ASC (active sound control)? Was turned off when I got it and haven’t switched it on.

What sort of average economy figures are you seeing?

How many miles would you normally get from a full tank?

bbbbb

ION08 wrote: »

What sort of average economy figures are you seeing?

How many miles would you normally get from a full tank?

Hoped in the car in London & got 51mpg on the trip to holyhead. Mixed driving closer to 45mpg, seems a little lower again in the cold weather.

Don’t know how far a tank is, about 60l so far enough for me.

Zurbaran

Zurbaran wrote: »

Was going to buy a car last year for between 6 to 10k but decided to put it all into buying a house instead. Nearly have that sorted now so I'm seriously considering an IS 300h for my next car in about 6 months. A few less mpg but looks, exclusivity, refinement and reliability is what is sending me that way. One of the main things I don't like is the infotainment system looks terrible when compared to the competition.

Bill Griffin has a 2014 with 83k there for €16,400 which looks a fair price to me but I'm hoping to get one with lower miles for a similar price. Going to the UK would probably be best.

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1902042&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D44%26o%5B%5D%3D944%26pp%3D50%26g%3D0

Off topic again.. but just wanted to add that I test drove one at the weekend and was a bit underwhelmed. Can't really put my finger on it, just thought I'd be more impressed. I must add that it wasn't an F Sport.

Going to try a F30 next.

TBi

First is300h I drove was from lexus dealer. I liked it but didn’t have enough time with it. Second one was a high mileage import and that was not a nice drive. The one I ended up buying was a low mileage premier. Much nicer drive.

You should try another one. Also stick it in sport mode! Makes a big difference to the drive (and fuel economy).