USB Socket in Bathroom - regs?

Jakey Rolling

I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?

Sleeper12

Jakey Rolling wrote:

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?

The regs say only a REC can work in wet areas. They'll need to cert it too

Jakey Rolling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The regs say only a REC can work in wet areas. They'll need to cert it too

I have a REC coming round in the new year to do some other work - will he be happy (as per regs) to put a USB socket of some kind?

Sleeper12

Jakey Rolling wrote:

I have a REC coming round in the new year to do some other work - will he be happy (as per regs) to put a USB socket of some kind?

Not a REC myself I don't know all the regs. It will depend on how far from the water source. Different regs apply the further away from the water source. If the bathroom is big enough you can install a washing machine and tumble dryer.

2011

A USB socket only supplies 5VDC so no issues with any bathroom zone there. Obviously you would need to ensure that the 230VAC supply can not come into contact with water just like a light or fan.

Wearb

2011 wrote: »

A USB socket only supplies 5VDC so no issues with any bathroom zone there. Obviously you would need to ensure that the 230VAC supply can not come into contact with water just like a light or fan.

OP "I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

FrancieBrady

Don't have any expert advice, just wondering why you would want to do it?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't have any expert advice, just wondering why you would want to do it?

Alexa, what does it mean if my poo is jet black?

2011

Wearb wrote: »

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

You can do anything you like with 5VDC. There are no safety concerns as a voltage this low can not cause any harm.

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

I did, that is why I said “Obviously you would need to ensure that the 230VAC supply can not come into contact with water just like a light or fan.”

Jakey Rolling

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't have any expert advice, just wondering why you would want to do it?

Handy for playing radio stations or music on Spotify while in the shower or bath.
Get your morning news briefing while you're taking a dump...
etc.

Jakey Rolling

2011 wrote: »

You can do anything you like with 5VDC. There are no safety concerns as a voltage this low can not cause any harm.



I did, that is why I said “Obviously you would need to ensure that the 230VAC supply can not come into contact with water just like a light or fan.”

Yeah, was going to glue a blanking plug in place so no-one inadvertently plugs any mains devices in. A dedicated USB only outlet would obviate the need for this though.

17larsson

So it's a socket with a USB port on it?
You might find it hard to find an electrician willing to install that in the bathroom (unless you can get it into zone 0).
A child proof blank can easily be pulled off.

There might be plates you can get with only a USB port on it?

EDIT;
You've said above you would glue it but if the glue loosens or if two weeks down the line you realise that socket would be very handy for something (not saying you would do this but someone could) and take it off and plug a radio in and now this socket that has been certified by the electrician is in a wet zone and if someone gets electrocuted he is at fault.
I would be very hesitant in installing that anyway

coylemj

2011 wrote: »

I did, that is why I said “Obviously you would need to ensure that the 230VAC supply can not come into contact with water just like a light or fan.”

But even if he puts those safety blanking plates onto the socket, is a 230V mains socket permitted in a bathroom?

Davy

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Handy for playing radio stations or music on Spotify while in the shower or bath.
Get your morning news briefing while you're taking a dump...
etc.

Would you not be concerned about moisture and the echo?

Would a batter Alexa compatible speaker not be better and avoid the wiring installation. You can take it with you for other uses outside of the house.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Ears-Bluetooth-Portable-Waterproof/dp/B075XWF4XM?ref=ast_p_ei

2011

coylemj wrote: »

But even if he puts those safety blanking plates onto the socket, is a 230V mains socket permitted in a bathroom?

I am not suggesting that a 230V socket is installed in the bathroom with or without safety blanking plates. I am suggesting that a 5VDC socket is installed in the bathroom which is quite different.

The power supply unit for the USB socket (which requires a 230V supply) can be installed somewhere suitable (safe), for example above the ceiling.

Del2005

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Handy for playing radio stations or music on Spotify while in the shower or bath.
Get your morning news briefing while you're taking a dump...
etc.

Waterproof Bluetooth speaker and/or put your phone in a waterproof bag if you want noise in the bathroom.

Jakey Rolling

Del2005 wrote: »

Waterproof Bluetooth speaker and/or put your phone in a waterproof bag if you want noise in the bathroom.

Well the reason I had the idea of a USB socket was that I was soaking in the bath, listening to relaxing music on my (water-resistant) phone but had to dry my hands every time I wanted to change anything. Sound is a bit iffy too.

Echo dot is hands-free, and speaker is better.

For the £35 I paid for it, I'm not too bothered about a bit of moisture.

The battery power suggestion is fine, but this would be a fairly permanent installation.

I suspect from what has been said that regs will say a mains power point will be too close to my shower and bath. No need to bother my REC about it so

dodzy

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-3-4-6-USB-Port-Wall-Charger-Outlet-AC-Power-Receptacle-Socket-Plate-PanelRSUJ-/322887466953

Jakey Rolling

dodzy wrote: »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-3-4-6-USB-Port-Wall-Charger-Outlet-AC-Power-Receptacle-Socket-Plate-PanelRSUJ-/322887466953

Thanks, just what I was looking for, though only need 1 outlet.

Del2005

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Well the reason I had the idea of a USB socket was that I was soaking in the bath, listening to relaxing music on my (water-resistant) phone but had to dry my hands every time I wanted to change anything. Sound is a bit iffy too.

Echo dot is hands-free, and speaker is better.

For the £35 I paid for it, I'm not too bothered about a bit of moisture.

The battery power suggestion is fine, but this would be a fairly permanent installation.

I suspect from what has been said that regs will say a mains power point will be too close to my shower and bath. No need to bother my REC about it so

I've used these for electronic equipment in the shower, not a drop of water gets in and touchscreen worked no issues.

antodeco

I wanted to do something similar. Instead I got a Bluetooth speaker bathroom mirror. Very handy for what you ask. Can be in the bath with full on speakers playing Spotify. I can leave the phone in the room if I want.

laotg

OP , just get a USB battery pack. Should last for days and you'll have the flexibility of being able to move the echo dot anywhere around the house. Charge it up every few days. Will be grand.

2011

A 5V outlet in a bathroom is not dangerous. People tend to overreact when they get “socket” and “bathroom” in the same sentence.

Wearb

2011 wrote: »

A 5V outlet in a bathroom is not dangerous. People tend to overreact when they get “socket” and “bathroom” in the same sentence.

I thought op was thinking of 3 pin 13a outlet combined with usb outlet all on one faceplate I might have misunderstood him.

17larsson

2011 wrote: »

A 5V outlet in a bathroom is not dangerous. People tend to overreact when they get “socket” and “bathroom” in the same sentence.

The OP was actually talking about a 230v socket with a child proof blank covering the 3 pins so that is obviously against regs if it's within most zones in the bathroom.

A plate with only a USB port is fine and he seems to have found what he's looking for above

2011

Agree^^^
You are correct, a 230V socket in a bathroom would not be a good idea.

I think a USB socket is a great idea though

Del2005

17larsson wrote: »

The OP was actually talking about a 230v socket with a child proof blank covering the 3 pins so that is obviously against regs if it's within most zones in the bathroom.

A plate with only a USB port is fine and he seems to have found what he's looking for above

Are the plates linked IP rated? And if they are is it just a sticker or properly done, buying from eBay is good for cheap tat but for safety critical items I avoid it due to amount of fakes or cheaply made items. Just because it's got a 5V outlet doesn't mean that water can't access the 230v

17larsson

I didn't actually look at the links so not sure. Another option might be a USB lead with a female and male head and just have the female end sticking out somewhere handy in the bathroom.
I'm not sure if such a lead exists though

TheChizler

I don't know if they exist, but a correctly installed shaver socket with USB outlet might be a reg compatible way to do this. Or get a normal shaver socket installed and use a USB travel adapter for the Echo.

I'd still be putting the Echo up high on a shelf next to the outlet and use a short USB cable. Even with 5 V USB there are documented cases of people getting electrocuted while charging their phones in baths due to the adapters malfunctioning.

2011

TheChizler wrote: »

Even with 5 V USB there are documented cases of people getting electrocuted while charging their phones in baths due to the adapters malfunctioning.

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

TheChizler

2011 wrote: »

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

They do if the wall plug malfunctions and allows 230 V down.

Plenty of cheap aftermarket adapters out there with poor isolation.

2011

TheChizler wrote: »

They do if the wall plug malfunctions and allows 230 V down.

Then it would be 5V anymore.

2011

Theoretically just about any electrical device can malfunction and result in electrocution. The way this risk is mitagated is with proper risk assessments which in turn drive regulations one of which is that we use CE certified electrical appliances. A phone charger that is not CE marked is far more likely to suffer a catastrophic failure resulting in a fire, injury or fatality. Let’s not forget plenty of electrical devices are installed in a bathroom in a safe and compliant manner so a USB socket should not be too difficult.

TheChizler

2011 wrote: »

Then it would be 5V anymore.

Well of course not. My point is if someone thinks 5 V USB is totally safe it's not necessarily when there's a mains source.

2011

TheChizler wrote: »

Well of course not. My point is if someone thinks 5 V USB is totally safe it's not necessarily when there's a mains source.

Couldn’t you say the same about any ELV device, shaver socket, 12V fan, 12V downlighter?

durtybit

Wearb wrote: »

OP "I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

Echo works on 9v

Dardania

Don't those USB sockets effectively contain an isolating transformer? So the fault current at 5V should be shag all

Del2005

2011 wrote: »

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

My phone has a 3Amp charger would that not be dangerous even at 5V?

durtybit

2011 wrote: »

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

What about 5v at 200 amps?

Lucifer

durtybit wrote: »

What about 5v at 200 amps?

Won't be able to travel through your body.

Think of a car battery. 12v capable of putting out a few hundred amps. You can touch both poles of the battery with your bare hands.

Sleeper12

Lucifer wrote:

Think of a car battery. 12v capable of putting out a few hundred amps. You can touch both poles of the battery with your bare hands.

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

2011

Del2005 wrote: »

My phone has a 3Amp charger would that not be dangerous even at 5V?

5V will not electrocute you. 3 amps will only flow from a 5VDC supply if the resistance is sufficiently low, see Ohm's law.

R = V/I = 5/3 = 1.67 Ohms

This means that for 3 amps to flow from a 5VDC supply the resistance must be 1.67 Ohms.

The human body can have a resistance of up to 100,000 Ohms so a human can not get a electrocuted from a 5VDC supply.

durtybit wrote: »

What about 5v at 200 amps?

200 amps will only flow from a 5VDC supply if the resistance is sufficiently low.

R = 5/200 = 0.025 Ohms

2011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

Incorrect.

Sleeper12

2011 wrote:

Incorrect.

You know more than I do about the regs. CER have told me that they treat low voltage shower the same as electric shower. Only REC can install a low voltage shower according to them. I've never understood this because I wouldn't even bother turning off the power if it wasn't handy as I work on a low voltage shower. They say it's an electrical installation under the law.

I will say that CER & RECI have given out totally incorrect information to me and others before. For four years CER had been telling me that changing electric shower like for like was OK. I now know this isn't true.

Lucifer

My point is nothing to do with regulations. The poster before asked what about 5v at 200 amps and I was pointing out that the current is not relevant at 5v for electrocution. 1 amp or 200 amps, neither will be able to flow through the human body. I referenced a CAR battery being higher voltage and current and still safe to touch.

TheChizler

2011 wrote: »

Couldn’t you say the same about any ELV device, shaver socket, 12V fan, 12V downlighter?

Yes, but any of these things aren't as tempting to bring as close as possible to you in the bath/shower as a music player. They'll also more likely be bought in Ireland and be electrically compliant. A USB adapter could easily be bought off a dodgy Chinese site. So I'm saying put a dedicated spot for it away from the water source to lessen the risk.

2011

TheChizler wrote: »

A USB adapter could easily be bought off a dodgy Chinese site.

....as can just about any electrical device.

Yes, but any of these things aren't as tempting to bring as close as possible to you in the bath/shower as a music player.

12V fans are permitted in the shower cubicle.

So I'm saying put a dedicated spot for it away from the water source to lessen the risk.

With all electrical devices in a bathroom:
It would be safer to install ensure that they are CE certified and installed in a manner that is compliant with the regulations than to install a device that you feel may not be compliant in a location "away from the water source".

TheChizler

I'm just saying if you go the plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket, be sensible. Nothing more.

2011

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm just saying if you go the plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket, be sensible. Nothing more.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't go plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket in the first place.
Shaver sockets are for shavers

Jakey Rolling

durtybit wrote: »

Wearb wrote: »

OP "I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

Echo works on 9v

And the Echo Dot works from a 5.2v 1.8 A supply

Bruthal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

It wouldnt matter if you were after getting out of the sea, 12v is too low to be of shock risk in terms of current through the body. Short circuiting a car battery etc with a spanner can be dangerous though, but not in electric shock terms.