Stolen oil

JJayoo

Hiya guys

Trying to find out some info for one of my friends.

She is renting and the landlord and her boyfriend live in the house. They recently got a full tank off oil, but she just got a message from landlord to say all the oil was taken and they have to buy more.

I'm just wondering what rights does she have as she is paying rent and has already paid her share for.a full tank of oil. Surely it is the landlords responsibility to secure the oil.

And info would be appreciated.

Del2005

She's a licencee. Her rights are that she can be kicked out if the landlord wants. So while she may not have to pay for the stolen oil the landlord does not have to let her live there if she does not pay for the oil.

JJayoo

She has already paid for the oil, they got a full tank last week. The landlord txt her today asking her for more money to pay for another tank

Yawns

they're all in the same boat tho as the oil was stolen. Not like the LL is trying to screw your friend. It's a kick in the nuts but it's the fairest approach at the end of the day.

km991148

If the oil did get stolen then its prob only fair that all 3 pay again for it. Unless one or all each claim their own contents insurance etc..

What Del2005 is saying tho that she can stand her ground and say feck that I already paid, but if she doesn't pay for the new tank, the landlord could easily say feck it and kick her out with little notice for any reason.

Probably just one of those unfortunate incidents.

If I were in your friends position, I would make sure the following

1 - The original tank of oil was actually paid for and the LL isnt at it (Wouldn't go guns blazin accusatory on this, but some fact finding)
2 - The theft was reported to the Guardai
3 - The LL puts some extra locks etc on the tank.

prinzeugen

Did they report it to the Garda? Is it covered on the house insurance? Did they check the tank is actually empty?

SuperSean11

Pay in periodically or monthly. You pay for oil months in advance. What happens if you have to leave for whatever reason? Ye gonna get to take your remaining oil with you?

Boater123

Del2005 is trying to point out that your friend has no tenancy, very little rights, and no real security of tenure.

However why is it that the LL can not claim it off insurance if it was stolen??

Boater123

km991148 wrote: »

If the oil did get stolen then its prob only fair that all 3 pay again for it. Unless one or all each claim their own contents insurance etc..

What Del2005 is saying tho that she can stand her ground and say feck that I already paid, but if she doesn't pay for the new tank, the landlord could easily say feck it and kick her out with little notice for any reason.

Probably just one of those unfortunate incidents.

If I were in your friends position, I would make sure the following

1 - The original tank of oil was actually paid for and the LL isnt at it (Wouldn't go guns blazin accusatory on this, but some fact finding)
2 - The theft was reported to the Guardai
3 - The LL puts some extra locks etc on the tank.

Boater123 wrote: »

Del2005 is trying to point out that your friend has no tenancy, very little rights, and no real security of tenure.

However why is it that the LL can not claim it off insurance if it was stolen??

prinzeugen wrote: »

Did they report it to the Garda? Is it covered on the house insurance? Did they check the tank is actually empty?

3 good answers in 3 minutes

Odelay

I'd be keen to have a look at the receipt for the oil delivery. Usually you get one in the letter box on delivery and then one in the post upon payment.
I'm going to guess the landlord has neither.

Victor

JJayoo wrote: »

she just got a message from landlord to say all the oil was taken and they have to buy more.

Sounds like a 'story'.

KellyXX

There was a lane behind our row of houses when I was younger and the oil from the tanks that were along the wall was stolen quite a lot.
Locks on the tanks didn't help. They used to drill a hole it the backs of the tanks and take the oil out anyway if they were locked.

They would never empty the full tanks and people wouldn't notice at all. You had to have a lock and then check for holes every day if you wanted to notice.
The gardai weren't interested and the insurance companies stopped covering oil.
Someone even had a camera up and filmed a van stopping against the wall one night and the gardai weren't interested.

The culprits park a van, put a hose in the tank and fill a few barrels they have in the van.

Best solution is get gas and if you cant, get the tanks moved away from outside walls. It doesn't help when they bring a long hose, but it's better than doing nothing.

The gardai even told us that probably oil is stolen from most tanks and not noticed as they don't empty them in one go. It's very common.
Check with the insurance company if they cover it. They might, but they might not cover it the next time. Also put a seal of some sort, like shrink wrap, on the tank lid and check every day, and also check the tank for holes all around.
That's just info given to us from the gardai, but the people who do it will not be stopped and you won't ever get your oil back, but it's very unlikely there is more than a barrel or two gone.
And don't put a lock on it because if they come back you'll just end up with a hole in your tank and if it's too low you will have to get a new tank.

MSVforever

KellyXX wrote: »

There was a lane behind our row of houses when I was younger and the oil from the tanks that were along the wall was stolen quite a lot.
Locks on the tanks didn't help. They used to drill a hole it the backs of the tanks and take the oil out anyway if they were locked.

They would never empty the full tanks and people wouldn't notice at all. You had to have a lock and then check for holes every day if you wanted to notice.
The gardai weren't interested and the insurance companies stopped covering oil.
Someone even had a camera up and filmed a van stopping against the wall one night and the gardai weren't interested.

The culprits park a van, put a hose in the tank and fill a few barrels they have in the van.

Best solution is get gas and if you cant, get the tanks moved away from outside walls. It doesn't help when they bring a long hose, but it's better than doing nothing.

The gardai even told us that probably oil is stolen from most tanks and not noticed as they don't empty them in one go. It's very common.
Check with the insurance company if they cover it. They might, but they might not cover it the next time. Also put a seal of some sort, like shrink wrap, on the tank lid and check every day, and also check the tank for holes all around.
That's just info given to us from the gardai, but the people who do it will not be stopped and you won't ever get your oil back, but it's very unlikely there is more than a barrel or two gone.
And don't put a lock on it because if they come back you'll just end up with a hole in your tank and if it's too low you will have to get a new tank.

Jesus that's absolutely crazy.
I was always wondering why a lot of houses in Ireland have their backyards separated by concrete walls instead of fences.

Del2005

KellyXX wrote: »

There was a lane behind our row of houses when I was younger and the oil from the tanks that were along the wall was stolen quite a lot.
Locks on the tanks didn't help. They used to drill a hole it the backs of the tanks and take the oil out anyway if they were locked.

They would never empty the full tanks and people wouldn't notice at all. You had to have a lock and then check for holes every day if you wanted to notice.
The gardai weren't interested and the insurance companies stopped covering oil.
Someone even had a camera up and filmed a van stopping against the wall one night and the gardai weren't interested.

The culprits park a van, put a hose in the tank and fill a few barrels they have in the van.

Best solution is get gas and if you cant, get the tanks moved away from outside walls. It doesn't help when they bring a long hose, but it's better than doing nothing.

The gardai even told us that probably oil is stolen from most tanks and not noticed as they don't empty them in one go. It's very common.
Check with the insurance company if they cover it. They might, but they might not cover it the next time. Also put a seal of some sort, like shrink wrap, on the tank lid and check every day, and also check the tank for holes all around.
That's just info given to us from the gardai, but the people who do it will not be stopped and you won't ever get your oil back, but it's very unlikely there is more than a barrel or two gone.
And don't put a lock on it because if they come back you'll just end up with a hole in your tank and if it's too low you will have to get a new tank.

It's got so bad in some parts of the country that people are using 40 gallon steel drums in sheds and filling them themselves instead of having bulk oil delivered, because they were following the delivery truck and emptying the tanks within a few nights. They even stopped using drills or opening the lid to get into plastic tanks.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I don't think the landlord could have done anything unfortunately.

When I moved back out to the countryside my heating method moved from piped gas to oil/kerosene.

I considered putting a lock on the tank but heard the stories of tanks being drilled and output lines being cut. That's an even bigger problem as you will possibly need a new tank. Also if the powers that be found out the spillage from that might require the soil around it to the professionally removed as it's an environmental hazard. Although in fairness you could get away with that.

So I think you just got unlucky. Some shower of c**ts out there, no respect for people's property :-(

Edit - my father would be very security conscious/paranoid and he doesn't bother with a lock on his tank for the same reasons.

JJayoo

Just to add a few more bit of info. The house is in Galway in an estate which is made up.mostly of students. When she asked about getting a lock for the tank the landlord refused saying that will.make you more of a target. Didn't report it to the guards and won't contact insurance about it.

Victor

JJayoo wrote: »

Just to add a few more bit of info. The house is in Galway in an estate which is made up.mostly of students. When she asked about getting a lock for the tank the landlord refused saying that will.make you more of a target. Didn't report it to the guards and won't contact insurance about it.

Shenanigans.

the_pen_turner

a lock only keeps an honest man out.

if I was in a licensee situation where I could leave at any time I would not want to be buying months worth of oil. surely you can pay your share monthly

KellyXX

JJayoo wrote: »

Just to add a few more bit of info. The house is in Galway in an estate which is made up.mostly of students. When she asked about getting a lock for the tank the landlord refused saying that will.make you more of a target. Didn't report it to the guards and won't contact insurance about it.

Why don't you report it to the gardai if you think it will help.
Sure it was your oil too that was stolen. You are also a victim.

Tylerdurex

Why won t the Guards do anything about . What a bloody corrupt dodgy country we live in

Del2005

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Why won t the Guards do anything about . What a bloody corrupt dodgy country we live in

Because even if they catch the culprits red handed nothing will happen to them. A person was caught in my car trying to steal it, after 2 court cases and several years they got off. Even if convicted they usually have so many others that it doesn't bother them. While waiting for the 1st court case was sitting beside several of our troubled children, the scumbag was a child when trying to steal my car, and one was bragging how they'd stolen the clothes for the court case.

A lock on an oil tank is worthless. They are so many easier ways to get the oil out than climbing to the top of the tank that the scumbags don't bother.

myshirt

Scumbags, absolute scumbags. Robbing oil from schools aswell they are, twice in one week from a school I know.

Op, you got some good advice here. All three should chip in. Secure the tank, put up one of those fake CCTV cameras, cover in brambles, and be aware of your surroundings. These people will have surveyed the area and planned it weeks in advance, they are likely living in a 5 mile radius.

myshirt

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Why won t the Guards do anything about . What a bloody corrupt dodgy country we live in

Not unless you are an important person, and that's a fact.

Tylerdurex

Imagine something like this happened in Texas . They could be blown away for trespassing on your property and nothing would be done to the person that fired the gun

Yawns

Victor wrote: »

Shenanigans.

It's really not. Locks will not deter thieves and may make the situation worse as they will damage the tank or lines to steal the kerosene.

But I wouldn't be going buying a few months worth of oil in one go either. Get a couple of drums and fill them every week or two.

Yawns

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Imagine something like this happened in Texas . They could be blown away for trespassing on your property and nothing would be done to the person that fired the gun

But the thieves would probably have their own guns as well in Texas. I get your sentiment but the problem here is the judges giving out soft sentences if any at all. That's why the guards can't be bothered. They do all the work only for little johnny to get a slap on the wrist and be out the next night stealing more oil.

Lumen

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Imagine something like this happened in Texas . They could be blown away for trespassing on your property and nothing would be done to the person that fired the gun

I'm proud to live in a country where people aren't summarily executed for trespass.

Why more people don't have their oil tanks in sheds/garages which can be locked is a strange one. Especially as most people who use oil live rurally and have the space for it. our kerosene and road diesel tanks are both inside a garage, even if it's not locked they can't be seen or accessed easily which is more than half the battle.

Tylerdurex

Lumen wrote: »

I'm proud to live in a country where people aren't summarily executed for trespass.

Well anyone trespassing on someone's property isn't merely doing it for the scenic route . Would you feel the same if they decided to extend the tour inside your house . Would you feel.as proud that in the process of defending your wife and kids from a certain threat you ended up with jail time because you either severely injured or killed the intruders because you overstepped your boundries on what our stupid government and law makers consider excess force

Del2005

Alora Freezing Bead wrote: »

Why more people don't have their oil tanks in sheds/garages which can be locked is a strange one. Especially as most people who use oil live rurally and have the space for it. our kerosene and road diesel tanks are both inside a garage, even if it's not locked they can't be seen or accessed easily which is more than half the battle.

Because most people installed their tanks before theft from them became so common. It's not that long ago that my rural living relatives never locked their house or car.

Lumen

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Well anyone trespassing on someone's property isn't merely doing it for the scenic route . Would you feel the same if they decided to extend the tour inside your house . Would you feel.as proud that in the process of defending your wife and kids from a certain threat you ended up with jail time because you either severely injured or killed the intruders because you overstepped your boundries on what our stupid government and law makers consider excess force

Yes, I would feel the same. HTH.

KellyXX

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Why won t the Guards do anything about . What a bloody corrupt dodgy country we live in

Only a person who has never needed to gardai to solve a crime against them would post this

April 73

JJayoo wrote: »

Just to add a few more bit of info. The house is in Galway in an estate which is made up.mostly of students. When she asked about getting a lock for the tank the landlord refused saying that will.make you more of a target. Didn't report it to the guards and won't contact insurance about it.

How much did the oil cost a week ago? How much was delivered? Has your friend any evidence by way of receipt from the oil company for how much was delivered?
In their shoes I would be feeling dubious about the story if the LL won’t report the theft to the Gardai. I would also ask why he won’t check if he can claim from the house insurance.

In future I would say that instead of filling the tank they should get regular smaller deliveries & not pay up front. The LL could charge them a monthly amount.

brightspark

Del2005 wrote: »

Because even if they catch the culprits red handed nothing will happen to them. A person was caught in my car trying to steal it, after 2 court cases and several years they got off. Even if convicted they usually have so many others that it doesn't bother them. While waiting for the 1st court case was sitting beside several of our troubled children, the scumbag was a child when trying to steal my car, and one was bragging how they'd stolen the clothes for the court case.

A lock on an oil tank is worthless. They are so many easier ways to get the oil out than climbing to the top of the tank that the scumbags don't bother.

If I was a guard I'd wonder why bother.

Saw this

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/home/289136/drug-addict-used-fake-50-notes-to-buy-car-in-holycross.html

They have " 181 previous convictions, 110 of these for theft,"

Headline said she got six months....but it's to run concurrently with an existing 10 month sentence?

I guess it keeps the judges and solicitors paid!

the_syco

JJayoo wrote: »

She is renting and the landlord and her boyfriend live in the house. They recently got a full tank off oil, but she just got a message from landlord to say all the oil was taken and they have to buy more.

JJayoo wrote: »

Didn't report it to the guards

Not reporting the theft to the Gardai makes me wonder if the oil ever existed.

Odelay

the_syco wrote: »

Not reporting the theft to the Gardai makes me wonder if the oil ever existed.

That is my guess too.

Toots

Odelay wrote: »

That is my guess too.

Same. I wonder if the LL slightly over-extended themselves over the festive season and is now trying to make a fast few quid. Or else the original batch of oil was never ordered and the money was spent on something else, but now the oil is running out and they need to order more.

elperello

If you don't report to Guards and make a statement the crime won't be recorded.

the_syco

OP; stick a clean pole into the oil tank, and see if the oil actually went missing?

Del2005

elperello wrote: »

If you don't report to Guards and make a statement the crime won't be recorded.

And if you do they'll report that a million litres was stolen from 300 homes.

Our crime statistics are already high, with a lot of crimes unreported, so another oil tank robbery being reported is not going to change anything. Insurance doesn't cover it, even if the Gardaí catch someone how do they prove that the oil came from the tank. If they do investigate and get a conviction the person will be doing it again tomorrow. So what's the point of someone wasting a few hours of their live over Christmas to report a crime that just becomes another statistic?

elperello

Non reporting of criminal incidents deprives the Gardai of one of the most important tools of their trade. Intelligence (information) is vital in the fight against all types of crime.

A straightforward statement by a victim of a non-violent robbery will usually only take about half an hour once you get in contact with the investigating officer.

It's your civic duty and you may help in solving or preventing some other crime even if you don't gain anything directly yourself.

Del2005

elperello wrote: »

Non reporting of criminal incidents deprives the Gardai of one of the most important tools of their trade. Intelligence (information) is vital in the fight against all types of crime.

A straightforward statement by a victim of a non-violent robbery will usually only take about half an hour once you get in contact with the investigating officer.

It's your civic duty and you may help in solving or preventing some other crime even if you don't gain anything directly yourself.

The Gardaí know exactly who is stealing in their area. Even when they catch them nothing happens.

elperello

Sometimes even the smallest detail can help to put a case together.

A neighbour might have reported a suspicious vehicle in the area.
A patrol might have seen a known criminal in the area about the time of the crime.
A checkpoint might even have stopped a van with a few cans of oil in the back.

If the Garda don't even know you've been robbed how can they help you?

Brego888

I would suggest your friend tell the landlord:
"Grand, I'm still going to contact the Gardai first as this was my oil too that was stolen"
Then ask the landlord to have all the receipts of the oil delivery available for the Gardai.
The landlords reaction would show if shenanigans are occurring.

Del2005

elperello wrote: »

Sometimes even the smallest detail can help to put a case together.

A neighbour might have reported a suspicious vehicle in the area.
A patrol might have seen a known criminal in the area about the time of the crime.
A checkpoint might even have stopped a van with a few cans of oil in the back.

If the Garda don't even know you've been robbed how can they help you?

You aren't getting the oil back even if the scumbags are sent down for life. So what help will the Gardai be? Yeah they could get a conviction, the scumbag doesn't care about them as if convicted they get free room and board if they get a custodial sentence. The only people who benefit are the solicitors, who are paid for by the person who was stolen from! So not only are you down several hundred Euro of oil you have the pleasure of paying for the defence of the person charged with stealing it. And how do you proof, beyond doubt, that the oil in the drums in the back of a vehicle came from a certain tank?

aido79

Might be an idea for the landlord to install one of these:

https://www.tanks.ie/watchman-alarm.html

It would pay for itself very quickly if the thieves were to come back.

Victor

Del2005 wrote: »

You aren't getting the oil back even if the scumbags are sent down for life. So what help will the Gardai be? Yeah they could get a conviction, the scumbag doesn't care about them as if convicted they get free room and board if they get a custodial sentence. The only people who benefit are the solicitors, who are paid for by the person who was stolen from! So not only are you down several hundred Euro of oil you have the pleasure of paying for the defence of the person charged with stealing it. And how do you proof, beyond doubt, that the oil in the drums in the back of a vehicle came from a certain tank?

You do realise that posts like this are almost facilitating the thieves?

Mokeydope

Any decent landlord should have produced a receipt when the oil was paid for originally

Doesn't sound right anyhow this

Del2005

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that posts like this are almost facilitating the thieves?

The thieves know the system better than any of us. The ineffective judicial system, and solicitors on the free legal aid gravy train, is what facilitates the thieves.

pablo128

Del2005 wrote: »

The thieves know the system better than any of us. The ineffective judicial system, and solicitors on the free legal aid gravy train, is what facilitates the thieves.

The thief is possibly the landlord.

iguana

Alora Freezing Bead wrote: »

Why more people don't have their oil tanks in sheds/garages which can be locked is a strange one. Especially as most people who use oil live rurally and have the space for it. our kerosene and road diesel tanks are both inside a garage, even if it's not locked they can't be seen or accessed easily which is more than half the battle.

My oil was stolen a few years ago. I was advised to get a lock for it by most people but a relative who is a fitter advised me not to as if the tank is locked the thieves just stick a spike in the tank meaning they not only steal your oil but you have to replace the tank and the soil around it is badly polluted. So I bought one of these sheds in Argos, built it around the tanks and locked it. And no more problems with stolen oil. It mightn't be the most secure shed on earth but there is no obviously easy way to steal the oil so the thieves will just move on to an easier target.

I also bought the shed when it was half price and it leaves me secure to buy the oil by the 1000ltr, which is discounted. And means I never run out of oil so can top up when oil prices are lower rather than running out in mid-Jan and having to buy regardless of the price.

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7058505/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7CGarden+and+DIY%7C14418702/c_2/3%7C19285823%7CSheds%2C+greenhouses+and+storage%7C14418827/c_3/4%7Ccat_14418827%7CMetal+sheds%7C14418834.htm