Time for High Rise in Dublin City

Orange Juice 935

Walking down the streets of Dublin you will notice that Dublin has no High (Building such as those in Tokyo, Hong Kong and New York)

My question is, 'Should Dublin City and other cities in Ireland go up?'

In my personal opinion yes it should. Living just outside of Dublin County I can clearly see the results of Urban Sprawl. If Dublin was to go up, it would stop the Urban Sprawl and lower rent prices.

dotsman

No

Dublin is a joke when it comes to city planning. And cork, Limerick and Galway are following in it's footsteps.

At this stage, there should be at least another 100K beds and 50K office desks in the city center and another 150K beds in the city (non center). That would still be relatively low density, but enough to justify far better public transport lines (2-3 underground, plus another 2-3 luas lines).

But the problem is that it doesn't happen by accident, or overnight. The planning for that should have happened 30 years ago. The damage to Dublin is now permanent, and it almost getting too late for the other Irish cities.

Wheety

No

Should have allowed it down in the IFSC. And all the way down to the docks.

neckedit

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

Wheety

No

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

Decentralise jobs? Private as well as public?

Civil Service tried it and it didn't work.

You're not going to see the big banks, accountancy and tech firms all over the country. They'll stay where the population, transport and facilities are. The cities are where this will always be. So we need more accommodation in the cities, especially the capital.

Most capital cities around the world build upwards to avoid sprawling outwards. Look what happens here. People commuting to Dublin from surrounding counties every day. Would have a knock on affect on traffic too. Less people driving if they live in the city centre or close to reliable, frequent transport.

Dr Crayfish

No

Ireland is terribly planned. From one off housing blighting the countryside to urban sprawl. I've never met anyone who wouldn't like to see high rise in Dublin. NIMBYism seems to be stopping the Apple data centre being built and seems to hold up every bloody project for years.
Why are we even discussing this when we know it's a f**king pipe dream? Much like Metro North, I'll be lucky to see that in my life ffs.

Dr Crayfish

No

Also can we not get rid of the absolute eyesores that are Liberty Hall and Busarus and replace them with something more modern, and why not go high too?

RobAMerc

Yes with design limits

Dublin / Ireland is being destroyed by fundamentalists and small minded lunatics.

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

While I am a keen cyclist and commuter I think this is insane and clearly the work of someone with a skewed view of how Dublin should be. they also believe we should all be living in the middle of no-where and coming into the city on Public Transport rather than living in the city.

Just plain stupid.

markpb

No

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

If we moved 10% of the population out of Dublin, do you think the rest of the country would have the houses, offices and transport to cope with that? Isn't it likely that we'd replicate the same problem all over the county?

Besides which, you're ignoring the fact that companies want to set up where there are large populations because it's easier to hire people and there will always be a big chunk of people who want to live in cities because of the jobs and other facilities that come along with that.

markpb

No

RobAMerc wrote: »

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

Before you dismiss it completely, do you know what percentage of people using college green are on bikes and what percentage the council would like it to be? Perhaps the 30% is a representative share?

Amirani

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

I know for a fact that if my employer tried to "decentralise" my job then they wouldn't be my employer much longer. I know it'd be the same most young professionals that I work and socialise with.

Young educated people by and large want to live in large urban centres with things going on. Dublin fits the bill on this for me, but not by much. Start taking people out of the city and I'd immediately be looking at moves to London, Berlin etc.

Only solution to current issues are to increase densities in Dublin and provide better transport links. The other cities have roles to play as regional hubs (and I support their development), but they can't realistically be seen as competitors/realistic alternatives to Dublin.

Fred_Johnson

No

RobAMerc wrote: »

Dublin / Ireland is being destroyed by fundamentalists and small minded lunatics.

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

While I am a keen cyclist and commuter I think this is insane and clearly the work of someone with a skewed view of how Dublin should be. they also believe we should all be living in the middle of no-where and coming into the city on Public Transport rather than living in the city.

Just plain stupid.

I noticed that utterly insane cycle lane as well. Bonkers.

To be fair that's probably more the work of the Green lobby.

You have to look at the composition of DCC to really understand what's happening. SF largest party, along with the likes of AAA, Workers party and the Greens.

Basically, representatives of the very poor or the very rich, neither of whom do much 9 to 5 work, vastly outnumber the representatives of the average private sector worker who needs to traverse Dublin for business. So of course, this most important demographic gets screwed. This is the fundamental problem facing the governing of Dublin.

And why don't they want tall buildings in Dublin? Because it will bring more young professionals into the city who won't vote for them. They fear gentrification.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

That's the way every cycle lane should be in the city. It's the way it is in most European cities. Cars have got to be removed from the city center.

Fred_Johnson

No

RasTa wrote: »

That's the way every cycle lane should be in the city. It's the way it is in most European cities. Cars have got to be removed from the city center.

BS. Not until we have an extensive network of metros, like other European cities. They have to come first. Crowded onto a luas that moves barely faster than I can walk won't cut it either.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

BS. Not until we have an extensive network of metros, like other European cities. They have to come first. Crowded onto a luas that moves barely faster than I can walk won't cut it either.

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. I've a motorbike, car and bike and depending on mood would use the bike most days as like a pint after work and can just throw the bike on the train.

Cars have got to go, I see them in the morning all single occupants going to work and they need to be removed or taxed for causing congestion.

Fred_Johnson

No

RasTa wrote: »

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. .

Hmmm...

Tell that to the commuter coming int oDublin from rural parts of Meath and Kildare...
Tell that to the guy in his 50's with a bad hip / dodgy leg that he should get on his bike and risk it....
Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat...

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!....

Bikes are fine for a small sub-section of the population in good weather, but not an adequate response to Dublins transportation needs.

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!....

I would imagine most people could get away with letting their little darlings walk to school or take the bus, like I used to do, school traffic seems to be the root of the problem as the traffic in Dublin in summer is grand

P_1

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Hmmm...

Tell that to the commuter coming int oDublin from rural parts of Meath and Kildare... - P&R on the outskirts of the city with decent PT into the city.

Tell that to the guy in his 50's with a bad hip / dodgy leg that he should get on his bike and risk it.... Fair enough

Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat... Showers and lockers in work. If they can afford to heir people suited and booted they can afford to install these

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!.... Kids don't need to be driven 2km to school

Bikes are fine for a small sub-section of the population in good weather, but not an adequate response to Dublins transportation needs.

Fair enough

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat....

I cycle to work every day and don't break a sweat. Look at countries like Holland and Denmark where a large percentage of people cycle to work, sweating isn't an issue.

yabadabado

No

Wheety wrote: »

Should have allowed it down in the IFSC. And all the way down to the docks.

Still plenty of land down there that it could happen but most likely too many objections.
A proper mix of office/residential/commercial down IFSC/Docklands would be ideal, it's a ghost town down there outside of office hours.

Either way something needs to be done ASAP. So many wasted opportunities in city centre.

Stephen15

No

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

Dr Crayfish

No

Another thing is the amount of vacant buildings all over the city centre. George's st up to Camden street has loads. If you look out for them they are just everywhere.

yabadabado

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

I would say we need at least 12 storey in city centre as a minimum anything less is a waste imo.
We don't need 50 storey office blocks but need to move into much higher buildings in and around the main transport hubs and work.
Done right these buildings don't have to be ugly, so many messes made in the past I wouldn't be too confident of them not ****ing up high rise.

Fred_Johnson

No

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I cycle to work every day and don't break a sweat. Look at countries like Holland and Denmark where a large percentage of people cycle to work, sweating isn't an issue.

That's because in Holland and Denmark, middle class professionals with families can live in large city centre apartments.

IN Ireland, due to low density in the city centre and preferences for the house and garden, those people are living in the LA style urban sprawl or in neighbouring counties. People dependent on State welfare with no job to go to are the ones living in the city centre.

Can we please deal with Dublin as it actually is, rather than you wishing we were like Holland or Denmark?

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Can we please deal with Dublin as it actually is, rather than you wishing we were like Holland or Denmark?

Well I live a 30 min cycle from Dublin city centre. As do thousands of other idiots who drive to work and clog up the city every day. So that's how it actually is for me.

dotsman

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

IFSC, Grand Canal, Smithfield and Hueston should all be a minimum of double digits. I agree, not skyscrapers, but 6 or 7 story just won't cut it - at least twice that. Ideally, all new buildings in these areas should be anywhere between 10-20 stories.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. I've a motorbike, car and bike and depending on mood would use the bike most days as like a pint after work and can just throw the bike on the train.

Cars have got to go, I see them in the morning all single occupants going to work and they need to be removed or taxed for causing congestion.

But you can't just magically get rid of cars - taxing and removing car lanes just makes it worse. To reduce the number of cars, you need to increase the public transport options which, in turn, depends on proper planning and high density.

A reduction in the number of cars is the end result of proper planning. Simply skipping all that and telling people not to use cars just doesn't work.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

dotsman wrote: »

But you can't just magically get rid of cars - taxing and removing car lanes just makes it worse. To reduce the number of cars, you need to increase the public transport options which, in turn, depends on proper planning and high density.

A reduction in the number of cars is the end result of proper planning. Simply skipping all that and telling people not to use cars just doesn't work.

You just stick cameras around like the ones for the tolls on the M50. Beep car not registered to be driving in the city? Enjoy €500 fine.

That will stop them quick enough. You want to drive, make sure you have your paid sticker visible.

Not sure why you would remove car lanes.

yabadabado

No

dotsman wrote: »

IFSC, Grand Canal, Smithfield and Hueston should all be a minimum of double digits. I agree, not skyscrapers, but 6 or 7 story just won't cut it - at least twice that. Ideally, all new buildings in these areas should be anywhere between 10-20 stories.

Those 4 areas would be a great starting off point. High rise and high density beside transport hubs in the city centre needs to priority. Get more people living in the city centre is a no brainer imo but can't really be done unless we go up. 20 storey mixed developments need to be built.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

You just stick cameras around like the ones for the tolls on the M50. Beep car not registered to be driving in the city? Enjoy €500 fine.

That will stop them quick enough. You want to drive, make sure you have your paid sticker visible.

Not sure why you would remove car lanes.

But why fine cars or make them register (and register for what)??? Nobody is driving through Dublin city centre today during rush hour for the fun of it. They are doing so because they have no alternative. Hitting them with additional charges will make no difference - you are just punishing them for the lack of proper planning.

yabadabado

No

dotsman wrote: »

But why fine cars or make them register (and register for what)??? Nobody is driving through Dublin city centre today during rush hour for the fun of it. They are doing so because they have no alternative. Hitting them with additional charges will make no difference - you are just punishing them for the lack of proper planning.

Isn't it proven if you get rid of car lanes then drivers will find alternative routes/modes of transport etc.
On the phone so can't link but any changes need to go hand in hand with improved PT.
I would be all in favour of a few places in city centre being car free in peak time during the week.

MN and Dart interconnector should be build ASAP and then make LUAS Green Line heavy rail.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

dotsman wrote: »

But why fine cars or make them register (and register for what)??? Nobody is driving through Dublin city centre today during rush hour for the fun of it. They are doing so because they have no alternative. Hitting them with additional charges will make no difference - you are just punishing them for the lack of proper planning.

Plenty of park and rides around. Leave it there and use public transport. I used to live in Chapelizod and that was fun even on the motorbike and I was working out in D15.

dotsman

No

yabadabado wrote: »

Isn't it proven if you get rid of car lanes then drivers will find alternative routes/modes of transport etc.
On the phone so can't link but any changes need to go hand in hand with improved PT.
I would be all in favour of a few places in city centre being car free in peak time during the week.

MN and Dart interconnector should be build ASAP and then make LUAS Green Line heavy rail.

Unfortunately, they can only use alternative modes of transport if suitable ones exist. And for many people, they simply don't. Again, this is down to lack of planning that takes years and decades. There is no quick fix.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

Plenty of park and rides around. Leave it there and use public transport. I used to live in Chapelizod and that was fun even on the motorbike and I was working out in D15.

Assuming of course that the park and ride transport route brings you to where you need to go?

Stephen15

No

dotsman wrote: »

IFSC, Grand Canal, Smithfield and Hueston should all be a minimum of double digits. I agree, not skyscrapers, but 6 or 7 story just won't cut it - at least twice that. Ideally, all new buildings in these areas should be anywhere between 10-20 stories.

I was more talking the city in general rather than specific. Yes have taller buildings in certain like the ones you mentioned just not everywhere.

Stephen15

No

dotsman wrote: »

Assuming of course that the park and ride transport route brings you to where you need to go?

They all you into the CC and the suggestion is only to ban cars from the CC

dotsman

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

They all you into the CC and the suggestion is only to ban cars from the CC

Yes, but the city center is a big place. A park and ride bus taking you to the IFSC is not much good if you are trying to get to Cork Street. Likewise, a Park and Ride Red Luas is not much good if you are trying to get to Wexford Street.

Park and Rides, along with cycle lanes etc are very specific pieces of a much larger, complex solution. All of which is dependent on proper planning with high density zones with the corresponding public transport links. Again, I go back to my original post - if Dublin had been planned properly, the city and city center would be far more dense and supported by several underground lines as many as 5 tram lines.

Density increases the number of people who live walking/cycling distance to their place of work and also justifies expensive, high speed public transport connecting the high (and medium) density zones.

Stephen15

No

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, but the city center is a big place. A park and ride bus taking you to the IFSC is not much good if you are trying to get to Cork Street. Likewise, a Park and Ride Red Luas is not much good if you are trying to get to Wexford Street.

Nonsense Dublin has a very small CC and now with Luas CC you can change between the two lines to get where you need to go.

dotsman

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

Nonsense Dublin has a very small CC and now with Luas CC you can change between the two lines to get where you need to go.

If you park and ride near swords, take bus to the quays by the IFSC, but your place of work is Cork Street, how do you get there? How long and awkward is your daily commute?

If you park and ride by the dart line, and are going to Stoneybatter, how do you get there from Tara Street or Connolly? How long and awkward is your daily commute?

If there were 3 underground lines and 5 tram lines all interconnected, bring in people from numerous park and rides on the city outskirts, covering the entire city center, serviced by frequent, high speed trains then, yes, the entire city center would be very simple to navigate. But, as it is, it is luck of the draw that whatever public transport option is available to you drops you within 5 minutes of your place of work in the city centre.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

By luas to Stoneybatter now.

Excuses excuses excuses as always. You would swear Dublin CC is the same size as London or New York the way you are going on.

Stephen15

No

dotsman wrote: »

If you park and ride near swords, take bus to the quays by the IFSC, but your place of work is Cork Street, how do you get there? How long and awkward is your daily commute?

If you park and ride by the dart line, and are going to Stoneybatter, how do you get there from Tara Street or Connolly? How long and awkward is your daily commute?

If there were 3 underground lines and 5 tram lines all interconnected, bring in people from numerous park and rides on the city outskirts, covering the entire city center, serviced by frequent, high speed trains then, yes, the entire city center would be very simple to navigate. But, as it is, it is luck of the draw that whatever public transport option is available to you drops you within 5 minutes of your place of work in the city centre.

There is no park and ride in Swords for buses atm. The nearest one would be Malahide DART. Btw the Swords Express route 503 goes to Merrion Sq. and the 41x goes South of the river too.

Stoneybatter is not in the CC for a start and you could get a DART to Connolly + Luas to Smithfield and walk. Changing modes is something that has to be done on many transport systems across the world. Even if the commute on public transport is awkward it's still better than sitting in traffic.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

By luas to Stoneybatter now.

Excuses excuses excuses as always. You would swear Dublin CC is the same size as London or New York the way you are going on.

There is no luas to Stoneybatter. It's a 20 minute walk from the Museum stop to the Park Shopping Center in Stoneybatter.

Exactly how many hours a day do you think somebody should spend a day commuting?

Do you work for DCC by any chance?

Dr Crayfish

No

dotsman wrote: »

There is no luas to Stoneybatter. It's a 20 minute walk from the Museum stop to the Park Shopping Center in Stoneybatter.

Exactly how many hours a day do you think somebody should spend a day commuting?

Do you work for DCC by any chance?

Used to live in Stoneybatter. It's probably 5 minutes from Smithfield stop to Walshes pub in Stoneybatter, a walk I've done 100s of times.

Stephen15

No

dotsman wrote: »

There is no luas to Stoneybatter. It's a 20 minute walk from the Museum stop to the Park Shopping Center in Stoneybatter.

Exactly how many hours a day do you think somebody should spend a day commuting?

Do you work for DCC by any chance?

I don't know Stoneybatter that well as I don't live or work there. Anyway how many people do you reckon live on the DART line and work in Stoneybatter I would imagine the number is fairly small.

People have to make decisions about where they live/work and the commuting distance of where they live/work. If it's not viable because public transport is not good enough or the traffic is too bad. I made the decision re: where I live as it's near the M50 and has good by Dublin standards bus links.

markpb

No

dotsman wrote: »

There is no luas to Stoneybatter. It's a 20 minute walk from the Museum stop to the Park Shopping Center in Stoneybatter.

Exactly how many hours a day do you think somebody should spend a day commuting?

Maybe Stoneybater isn't a major residential place or a place where many people go to work? Perhaps it's well served by the bus routes it has today. Plus a 20 minute walk to a rail line is considered acceptable in many cities.

dotsman wrote: »

Do you work for DCC by any chance?

You don't think someone can disagree with you without being paid to do so? That says a lot about your willingness to engage in debate which is funny on a discussion/debate website!

RasTa

Yes with design limits

dotsman wrote: »

There is no luas to Stoneybatter. It's a 20 minute walk from the Museum stop to the Park Shopping Center in Stoneybatter.

Exactly how many hours a day do you think somebody should spend a day commuting?

Do you work for DCC by any chance?

Also used to live in Stoneybatter. Not sure why you would get off at the museum. You haven't a clue.

Larbre34

Getting off the point.

High rise (80m+) has always been resisted by the city planners for two basic reasons a) the ghost of ballymun on their shoulders and b) a dogmatic belief that Dublins latitude and consequently sunshine angle does not lend itself to high rise or 'concrete canyons' as for a good part of the year whole streets would not get sunlight. They have infected the city councillors with these reservations, and they are the ones who effect the zonings, so here we are.

Varadkar is clearly determined to override this to enable the growth of the city inside the M50, rightly in my view, so high (er) rise is coming, the main concern for me as a professional in the industry is that the highest of design standards be demanded and it not be developer led. Easier said than done i know, but the times are inevitably changing.

Dr Crayfish

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't know Stoneybatter that well as I don't live or work there. Anyway how many people do you reckon live on the DART line and work in Stoneybatter I would imagine the number is fairly small.

People have to make decisions about where they live/work and the commuting distance of where they live/work. If it's not viable because public transport is not good enough or the traffic is too bad. I made the decision re: where I live as it's near the M50 and has good by Dublin standards bus links.

My mam used to take the Dart to Tara and walk to Smithfield when she was working there. Less than 20 minutes, for a woman in her late 50s at the time.
I also used to walk to the Four Courts to work, from Tara, less than 15 mins.

yabadabado

No

DCC is fairly small, very unlikely to be left to your door on PT. No different to any other city.

dotsman

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

There is no park and ride in Swords for buses atm. The nearest one would be Malahide DART. Btw the Swords Express route 503 goes to Merrion Sq. and the 41x goes South of the river too.

Stoneybatter is not in the CC for a start and you could get a DART to Connolly + Luas to Smithfield and walk. Changing modes is something that has to be done on many transport systems across the world. Even if the commute on public transport is awkward it's still better than sitting in traffic.

Apologies - assumed there would be a park and ride in Swords. So, as a commuter, one would be even more screwed trying to get to work on Cork Street.

Stoneybatter is 100% in the City Center. What do you define as the city center? Take a look at a map of Dublin and say that Stoneybatter is not in the center of the city. I have no problem with people needing to change modes (as long as the trains have high frequency, so you are not waiting for more than a few minutes between getting off one route and transferring to another).

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Used to live in Stoneybatter. It's probably 5 minutes from Smithfield stop to Walshes pub in Stoneybatter, a walk I've done 100s of times.

I just picked a random spot on the map. The Park Shopping center in Stoneybatter (and surrounding units) would be a place where a lot of people work and is 20 minute walk from Museum luas stop according to Google Maps. From the map, the Park Shopping Center looks to be in the center of Stoneybatter, whereas Walsh's Pub is practically next to Smithfield Square and a 10 minute walk from the pub.

But I don't know the area. As I said, I just picked a random part of Dublin City Center.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't know Stoneybatter that well as I don't live or work there. Anyway how many people do you reckon live on the DART line and work in Stoneybatter I would imagine the number is fairly small.

People have to make decisions about where they live/work and the commuting distance of where they live/work. If it's not viable because public transport is not good enough or the traffic is too bad. I made the decision re: where I live as it's near the M50 and has good by Dublin standards bus links.

I don't know Stoneybatter that well either - I just chose random examples. The simple fact is that, over the years I have worked with people who have ridiculous commutes. Likewise, I have turned down jobs offers because I would not do the commute (and I live in the city center!). By taking a simple, high-level look and saying that X suburb has a bus to somewhere in the city center doesn't mean that it is easy or quick and could actually result in an hour to an hour and a half commute each way, with a lot of walking (in Irish weather) or transferring from one mode to another and having to wait 15-30 minutes in between).

Yes, people have to make decisions about where they live in relation to work. However, bear in mind that many people will change jobs/locations many times in their lives. But, as to the topic of this thread, due to the low density of Dublin city, huge parts of the city are not within a simple commute for many people, there is a ridiculous shortage of housing that is within a simple commute to much of the city and public transport is woeful/limited because of the low density and bad planning.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

Stoneybatter isn't the CC, ask people who have lived in stoneybatter all their life's and they will tell you the same.

It's like saying Fairview is the CC. Given your lack of knowledge and saying the Park SC would be the center of stoneybatter I doubt you're from Dublin at all.