Tenant not paying rent need advice

515051050

Hello looking for some advice, so a tenant of mine who is renting a room in a house has stopped paying rent its been over 3 months now. I know there is a legal procedure to follow and i have the tenant on a fixed term contract but i have not registered the house under the PRTB. I am not exactly sure what to do now, i recently went out to the tenants last known address and was informed he wasnt living there anymore, he is still in my house as far as i know, anyone know what options i have at this point?

Mena

Is the tenant renting a room in the house or renting the house? If it’s a room then they’re a licensee not a tenant and not covered by tenancy law. Turf the freeloader on the street.

Samuel T. Cogley

Sounds like it's a room in a shared house where the LL is not present. The LL is in deep do do as they are not registered with the RTB. Get registered ASAP, sort any tax issues and begin the process of eviction which will take months and probably involve a court order to enforce. Where a room is rented outside of a PPR the renter is a tenant for the purposes of the RTA. If it's in the PPR (Principal Private Residence) See post #2

Giblet

Has the lease been signed by everyone in the house? They may be Joint and Severaly liable for the rent, so the other tenants will need to make up the shortfall.

srsly78

Mena wrote: »

Is the tenant renting a room in the house or renting the house? If it’s a room then they’re a licensee not a tenant and not covered by tenancy law. Turf the freeloader on the street.

Are you actually trying to get the op fined? The fact they rent a room is irrelevant to your point, what matters is whether the landlord also lives there.

515051050

I do not live there, i have 4 rooms rented out seperatly with sepeate contracts

Varik

srsly78 wrote: »

Are you actually trying to get the op fined? The fact they rent a room is irrelevant to your point, what matters is whether the landlord also lives there.

He doesn't have to live there for them to be licensees.

thereality

I personally think you need to call a solictor. If you have waited 3 months to evict a tenant and you haven't even registered the property with the RTB. IMO you need a professional for you to evict this tenant. You seem like the type of individual who will get slapped with a massive fine from the RTB for being an incompetent landlord.

You need someone else to cross your T's and dot your I's, as don't appear to be able to do that. A solictor will not be cheap. Although you will likely save yourself a fine from the RTB with how your approaching this eviction

515051050

Can i not go around and ask him to leave for non payment or send someone around?

Cheshire Cat

515051050 wrote: »

Can i not go around and ask him to leave for non payment or send someone around?

No, you have to send him a rent arrears letter first. If he is in fact a tennant. Not quite clear from your posts.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/ending-the-tenancy-for-rent-arrears

The_Conductor

Does the tenant have a formal lease- and if so- 1) How long has the tenant been in residence in the dwelling and 2) What does the lease say?

As for registering the property with the RTB- just do it- pay the late fine- and normalise your situation.

515051050

Has a 11 month fixed term lease and has 6 months left on it to go

Samuel T. Cogley

515051050 wrote: »

Has a 11 month fixed term lease and has 6 months left on it to go

He'll acquire Part IV rights shortly and be allowed to stay for six years; bar the statutory get outs. You really need to get some advice and get this all sorted out. I don't mean to sound harsh but you seem in over your head here.

I don't think it's a wild leap to assume you're not properly tax compliant. You need to get that sorted also as that will be very painful if you're forced to do it rather than doing it voluntarily.

Not being RTB registered means that tenants have you over a barrel and all they have to do is look up the register which is public record. As has been said, bar the usual noise of people trying to game the system - you need to initiate the correct procedure, the only thing that will make this worse is an illegal eviction.

The_Conductor

OP- registering the tenancy- is no biggie- don't get too upset over it being late.
Worse case scenario is a bit of a fine- they are more interested in you being compliant, than stopping you from registering the tenancy.
Your tax situation is a matter between you and Revenue- it is of no relevance to the tenant. Obviously- you do need to rectify any deficiencies in your tax returns- however, it is not the prerogative of the tenant- or anyone else- to suggest you're not tax compliant- it is a matter between you and Revenue- and you *have* to sort it (wholly aside from anything else- there is a sizeable section in there dealing with Landlords and other 'high risk' activities where they conduct far higher audit rates than ordinary PAYE employees or other categories). You have to make sure you are tax compliant- if you're not, you will be caught, its just a matter of when. Have a look at Iris Oifigiul (you can get a copy in any main library)- about a third of settlements in the last quarter were either landlords or taxi-drivers.........

Next- the tenant is 5 months into a 12 month fixed term lease.
The fixed term lease is immediately void when they failed to pay the rent in full and on time.
You can end a tenancy for any reason whatsoever in the first 6 months.
After 6 months- the tenant acquires whats known as Part IV rights under the Act- after which it becomes a nightmare to gain vacant possession of your property.

Immediately- you need to regularise your situation with the RTB- if there is a fine to be paid- do it- but get the tenancy registered.
You immediately *need* to issue a 14 day notice of rent arrears to the tenant.
You immediately *need* to advise that you are terminating the tenancy (don't give a reason).
Once you have the tenancy registered- which is quite simple- you need to immediately lodge a case against the tenant for non-payment of rent.

The status of your registration with the RTB- does not preclude you issuing a 14 notice of rent arrears (under the Act), nor does it preclude you from terminating the tenancy. You can do those- while you're regularising your position with the RTB.

Time is of the essence- as soon as the guy is in there 6 months- it becomes a whole lot more difficult to get him out- regardless of the fact that he isn't paying rent- and vis-a-vis your non-compliance with the RTB- it simply means you can't bring a case to the RTB- it doesn't mean you can't terminate the tenancy, issue notices or rent arrears etc etc.

Get your house in order!!!!

515051050

Technically he has been here now just over 6 months, i think ive messed up, also he sent me a letter regarding me coming to his old address that the occupants of it have filed a harassment complaint and he has proof that he is no longer resident there, he also said regarding the utility bills that they are not in my name which they are not, i put my daughters name on the gas bill and he said if its not in my name then he cannot pay it

The_Conductor

515051050 wrote: »

Technically he has been here now just over 6 months, i think ive messed up, also he sent me a letter regarding me coming to his old address that the occupants of it have filed a harassment complaint and he has proof that he is no longer resident there, he also said regarding the utility bills that they are not in my name which they are not, i put my daughters name on the gas bill and he said if its not in my name then he cannot pay it

He is using every trick in the book to get a free ride.
However- what on earth is your daughter's name doing on utility bills?
Utility bills are changed over to the tenant at the commencement of the tenancy? Unless, of course, you decided to pay the utility bills, as some part of all-inclusive package for the tenant- however, that would be exceptional- and virtually unheard of for a tenant, other than someone staying short-term in a dwelling.

You *need* to get the utilities into his name. Immediately.
You *need* to issue a 14 days notice on rent arrears.
You *need* to regularise the situation with the RTB.
The RTB are under instruction to share all details with Revenue- so you would be well advised to insure you are fully above board with them- before they come after you too..........

You cannot play the system- its setup to catch you out- and rightly so- and unfortunately the tenant is playing you for a fool.

Get cracking- 14 days notice of arrears and the RTB registration right here, right now (and give them correct information for crying out loud). After that- I'd suggest lobbing a case to the RTB for non-payment of rent- and issuing a termination of tenancy to the tenant- on the grounds of non-payment of rent.

You put the utilities in your daughter's name? Arrrgghhhhh!!!

515051050

He has also said that the other 3 tenancies in the house are not registered which they are not and has sent a report to the RTB about it, the gas bill was in one of the tenants names before until she took her name off it

Heres Johnny

Hire someone and pay someone to manage your property and sort out this mess you are in. I normally side with the landlord in these disputes but you are in so much out of your depth here it's not funny.

Never registered tenancy

Calling around to last address even though you knew they were in your house - I don't get why you did this

Utility bills in daughters name

Tenant not paying and mentioning a claim of harassment

This is a disaster and another reason the rental market needs to be regulated properly and quickly

mdebets

The_Conductor wrote: »

You can end a tenancy for any reason whatsoever in the first 6 months.

Not true if you have a fixed term contract. Unless it has a break clause that allows it.

The_Conductor wrote: »

After 6 months- the tenant acquires whats known as Part IV rights under the Act- after which it becomes a nightmare to gain vacant possession of your property.

Despite how often this is repeated here, this is simply not true. The process to evict a tenant with or without Part IV rights is exactly the same and will take the same time for the same tenant. The only difference in part IV is that with part IV, the tenant can only be evicted for certain reasons (and why would a professional landlord want to evict a tenant who is paying rent on time, is not anti-social and the house is not needed for the landlord or a relative or needed empty for sale or renovation).

Subtle

I know this isn't a helpful comment, but seriously, I find the ignorance of some landlords absolutely incredible. It just seems like they are so blinded by what they see as an apparently easy opportunity to make money, they disregard all the legal obligations and the recommended advice out there which to be honest is hard not to be in the know about these days. I appreciate that there are bad tenants out there etc., but this type of landlord just encourages 'bad' tenants in the system - a bit like someone always leaving their handbag on the dashboard of an unlocked car with the window left open. If everyone did this, then the amount of opportunistic thefts would definitely increase. And it annoys me that the same probably applies to bad tenants with this situation...

515051050

So not being registered with the RTB can i take the tenant to court?

Cheshire Cat

515051050 wrote: »

So not being registered with the RTB can i take the tenant to court?

No, you still have to go to the PRTB. Just make sure you register ASAP.

Having said that, your whole setup sounds so messy that I would recommend to give notice to all tenants and to sell up.

blueythebear

You've made a total mess of this and you are likely to be in for a long road of trying to get this tenant out. You will not receive rent and you will have to pay a solicitor to make sure you comply with the legal requirements to get them out.

Be prepared to lose out on 18 months or more rent and be prepared to foot the bill for legal fees. Also, be prepared to have to pay for some repairs when the tenant eventually does go.

This is the reality of being a landlord these days unfortunately.

TheChizler

Probably irrelevant now based one of the OP's recent posts, but assuming lease invalid and say if 1 month's notice for any reason was given after 5 and a half months, does that prevent part 4 rights kicking in at 6 months? I thought you had to give notice at 5 months at the latest?

Michael D Not Higgins

Part 4 rights are only in effect if no notice of termination has been given as per section 28 (2) (b) of the RTA 2004. It doesn't matter if the notice period ends after the 6 months.

Cupatae

Go down and demand payment if he doesnt pay wait for him to leave and change the locks,keep his stuff till he pays.. let him create as much noise as he likes people like that are more than likely all bark and no bite, if he isnt playing by the rules why should u? better yet if nothings in his name like the bills just deny he ever existed if he does create hassle over it pretend u never rented it.

People like him a scum of the highest order if i was you id have no problem in doing what ever it took to get rid of em and wudnt lose abit of sleep over it.

Its abit late now to start going by the book that others are suggesting imo As sensible as it sounds, i reackon you ll just dig a deep hole for urself.. sort this one out then do it propely from the start next time.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Cut off gas and electricity, turn off water at stopcock and park your car over it (if you have an oil tank, siphon it empty and hack saw the pipe from it).

Bubbaclaus

Cupatae wrote: »

Go down and demand payment if he doesnt pay wait for him to leave and change the locks,keep his stuff till he pays.. let him create as much noise as he likes people like that are more than likely all bark and no bite, if he isnt playing by the rules why should u? better yet if nothings in his name like the bills just deny he ever existed if he does create hassle over it pretend u never rented it.

People like him a scum of the highest order if i was you id have no problem in doing what ever it took to get rid of em and wudnt lose abit of sleep over it.

Its abit late now to start going by the book that others are suggesting imo As sensible as it sounds, i reackon you ll just dig a deep hole for urself.. sort this one out then do it propely from the start next time.

Jesus...someone delete this post please.

The_Conductor

Op have to spoken to the other people living in the house and made them aware of the situation? If they are good tenants they may want to encourage the person to leave themselves as they may feel he is threatening their situation too (they might fear you selling up and giving them all notice etc).

Also ask one of the other tenants for permission to call around so that you can confront the non-paying tenant. Once one of the room renters give you permission you can enter the house. When I say confront I don't mean throw him out or anything like that that would land you in trouble but at least ask him what's going on etc. He might be less brazen when race to face with you and other housemates around fearing for the stability of their tenancy also.

The_Conductor wrote: »

However- what on earth is your daughter's name doing on utility bills?
Utility bills are changed over to the tenant at the commencement of the tenancy? ...............

You *need* to get the utilities into his name. Immediately.

It's a room let seperately house share(a key point being missed by a lot of posters) so moving utilities into tenants names is messy as there is usually a regular turnover of people and it's painful for both tenants and LL to be constantly juggling around the names on bills. Therefore it's not unusual for the LL to keep bills in their name, things like prepay power have made this less risky too.

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Having said that, your whole setup sounds so messy that I would recommend to give notice to all tenants and to sell up.

I think this highlights the opposite, the advantage of renting rooms seperately. The op has 1 non paying tenant but he still has 3 others payings so is only losing 1/4 of the rent. If he was stuck with a non-paying tenant who had the full house he wouldn't be getting a cent.

It may also be easier to get a person out of a room than get a person out who has full exclusive possession of a house.

Cupatae

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Jesus...someone delete this post please.

Why?

mrs.doubt.fire

If your not already registered with the PRTB, no point in asking them to help, it's not their problem..it's your problem.

Bubbaclaus

Cupatae wrote: »

Why?

Because it's illegal and will end up with a chunky fine for the landlord.

By all means go ahead though with that route and see how that pans out.

mrs.doubt.fire

Get legal advice and sort it out that way. You maybe allowed to keep his belongings to sell them to get part payment that is due to you, but I doubt your tenant has anything of value to get any payment back.
Keep in mind you dont want to annoy the tenant too much or they will trash your house and break things (electrical sockets, light switches, kitchen applicances & cubbards, stairs etc...yes they do!!) not to mention the mess they'll leave behind, so hopefully you have house insurance, you maybe needing it by the time you get them out.

Once you have them out, change the locks regardless if you get the keys back or not.
When the house is ready to be let again, for heavens sake hand it over to an estate agent to let it for you and let them handle it from then on, trust me...that's what I do and it's worth it.

Cupatae

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Because it's illegal and will end up with a chunky fine for the landlord.

By all means go ahead though with that route and see how that pans out.

You re trying to go down the legal route, with someone that clearly couldn't careless about whats legal or morally right, people like that would be laughing at someone like you..tying themselves up in knots with solicitors and legality's while they milk another free month and leave then laughing.

Then you re left with fines that you brought on yourself solicitor fees ect, the damage someone like that will do out of badness ect all the hassle that goes with it.

There is more than one way to skin a cat!

But thats just my opinion! do with that what you will!

TheChizler

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

Get legal advice and sort it out that way. You maybe allowed to keep his belongings to sell them to get part payment that is due to you, but I doubt your tenant has anything of value to get any payment back.

Meanwhile back in the real world...

Michael D Not Higgins

MOD: Next illegal advice gets a holiday from the forum.

Cupatae

TheChizler wrote: »

Meanwhile back in the real world...

Yeah cause in the real world everyone is a super law abiding citizen that follow all rules

Cupatae

Go to your solicitor and report yourself to the relevant authorities for doing things wrong pay all the fines. Then ask for lawful help and wait. OP

/Thread

Pawwed Rig

The_Conductor wrote: »

As for registering the property with the RTB- just do it- pay the late fine- and normalise your situation.

Exactly. It is no big deal. We have had guys register tenancies years after the fact. Revenue are fine with that too.

Michael D Not Higgins

Cupatae, don't post in this thread again.

davo10

As with a previous poster, I'm sympathetic to landlords when they find themselves in a situation with an errant tenant, but op you have the tenant a rod to beat you with.

Register the tenancy as soon as possible, issue notice of termination due to rent arrears and open a case with the RTB. Have a word with the other tenants and see if they will talk to the tenant. This could be an expensive, drawn out process for you so you need to get the ball rolling. Personally I would consider all options.

liam650

Tbh you do not have a leg to stand on not registered with the prtb the tenant doesnt have to pay you a penny as you have no legal grounds and you probably will be backtaxed for all the years you have let the house out most likely

davo10

liam650 wrote: »

Tbh you do not have a leg to stand on not registered with the prtb the tenant doesnt have to pay you a penny as you have no legal grounds and you probably will be backtaxed for all the years you have let the house out most likely

Liam, the landlords registration with the RTB nor his/her standing wth Revenue does not effect tenants obligations in relation to rental payment. You must educate yourself.

liam650

davo10 wrote: »

Liam, the landlords registration with the RTB nor his/her standing wth Revenue does not effect tenants obligations in relation to rental payment. You must educate yourself.

ok but who can enforce the payment of rent since the landlord isnt registered?

ella23

Oh Please Liam, stop arguing with yourself! It's obvious that the OP is you trying to create drama! Just go through this trolls previous posts and you'll see what i'm talking about! Previous post below about him not paying rent after signing an 11 month lease, landlord insists on the gas bill being put in someone else's name etc... You're as transparent as clingfilm Liam!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104518014

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057788407&page=2

davo10

liam650 wrote: »

ok but who can enforce the payment of rent since the landlord isnt registered?

The landlord can register the tenancy, pay a small late registration charge, and then take a case to RTB. In the meantime, the process of eviction can be started by notice being served to the tenant, the LL still has the legal right to evict due to non payment of rent irrespective of whether the tenancy is registered or his/her standing with Revenue.

mrslancaster

davo10 wrote: »

... issue notice of termination due to rent arrears...

Any information appreciated about this from all the more knowledgeable folk on this forum.

On this new RTB website it has a procedure for rent arrears and a sample 14 Day Warning Notice for failure to pay rent.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/during-a-tenancy/rent-arrears/process-for-serving-a-notice-of-termination-for-rent-arrears/

Just wondering does the 14 days go from the day the rent was due or 14 days from when the landlord writes the warning notice or 14 days from when the tenant receives the notice?

Does anyone know where does it says in the RTA to issue a 14 day notice for rent arrears before issuing a 28 day notice?

The_Conductor

mrslancaster wrote: »

Any information appreciated about this from all the more knowledgeable folk on this forum.

On this new RTB website it has a procedure for rent arrears and a sample 14 Day Warning Notice for failure to pay rent.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/during-a-tenancy/rent-arrears/process-for-serving-a-notice-of-termination-for-rent-arrears/

Just wondering does the 14 days go from the day the rent was due or 14 days from when the landlord writes the warning notice or 14 days from when the tenant receives the notice?

Does anyone know where does it says in the RTA to issue a 14 day notice for rent arrears before issuing a 28 day notice?

14 days from the date the landlord serves the notice to the tenant (irrespective of the date from which there are rent arrears due).

If the tenant clears all arrears in the 14 day period- they are then no-longer in arrears, and if the landlord is insistent on terminating the tenancy- they will have to find another, legitimate, reason.