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When an under-age girl has a relationship with a man.

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    #32
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Owryan wrote: »
    I'm aware of that but the 2012 legislation was in reference to where the power to proscecute non reporting of suspected abuse

    The following article was published two months ago:

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/child-protection-system-not-ready-for-mandatory-reporting-of-abuse-concerns-461744.html
    From December 11, under the Children First Act 2015, all individuals and groups dealing with children will be obliged to report child protection concerns that cross a defined threshold to Tusla.


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    #33
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    Nope I'm not saying that. I'm saying doctors etc don't seem to report on clear-cut instances of statutory rape so I'd be surprised if they'd report abuse in the same situation unless there were other factors definitely pointing in that direction.
    I don't think it's ok at all that anyone sleeps with a 15 year old.

    Ah ok, thanks for clearing it up. In my limited experience doctors, esp in hospitals, were fairly proactive in reporting suspicions. I'm not sure about gp's tho.

    What did surprise me in relation to non reporting was that families were the biggest culprits. But like you said it depends on the situation. A family might accept their 16yo daughter having sex but another family might not.


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    #34
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Owryan wrote: »
    Ah ok, thanks for clearing it up. In my limited experience doctors, esp in hospitals, were fairly proactive in reporting suspicions. I'm not sure about gp's tho.

    What did surprise me in relation to non reporting was that families were the biggest culprits. But like you said it depends on the situation. A family might accept their 16yo daughter having sex but another family might not.

    On that note - the girl in the case I referred to in my OP is of a dysfunctional family. The man with whom she is in a relationship has several District Court convictions - including theft and public order offences.


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    #35
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    political analyst wrote: »
    On that note - the girl in the case I referred to in my OP is of a dysfunctional family. The man with whom she is in a relationship has several District Court convictions - including theft and public order offences.

    That is very worrying but it doesn't surprise me. When you have some context for these things they are much clearer. I don't know how a medical professional wouldn't be asking very serious questions about the girls welfare of they knew that. The sad thing is that they probably don't.


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    #36
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    political analyst wrote: »
    On that note - the girl in the case I referred to in my OP is of a dysfunctional family. The man with whom she is in a relationship has several District Court convictions - including theft and public order offences.

    Purely out of nosiness did you report your concerns to tusla?


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    #37
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Owryan wrote: »
    Purely out of nosiness did you report your concerns to tusla?

    Considering that she was 16 when she and her boyfriend conceived their second - and surviving - child, I don't see the point.

    I have reported the boyfriend to the gardaí for threatening behaviour (Don't ask me why he threatened me - I just don't know!) and the court summons is being processed at the moment.


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    #38
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    That is very worrying but it doesn't surprise me. When you have some context for these things they are much clearer. I don't know how a medical professional wouldn't be asking very serious questions about the girls welfare of they knew that. The sad thing is that they probably don't.

    Maybe they did - but, for obvious reasons, it certainly wouldn't be public knowledge.


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    #39
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    political analyst wrote: »
    Considering that she was 16 when she and her boyfriend conceived their second - and surviving - child, I don't see the point.

    I have reported the boyfriend to the gardaí for threatening behaviour (Don't ask me why he threatened me - I just don't know!) and the court summons is being processed at the moment.

    So you are aware or an underage girl in a sexual, potentially abusive relationship with an adult and you don't see the need to report it, but you hope a gp/doctor will.


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    #40
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Owryan wrote: »
    So you are aware or an underage girl in a sexual, potentially abusive relationship with an adult and you don't see the need to report it, but you hope a gp/doctor will.

    I don't need to report it because, presumably, gardaí, health and social care professionals and civil servants are already aware of it!

    The boyfriend has done time in a young offenders' institution but I don't know what offence he was detained for.


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    #41
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Surely the title should be 'when a man has a relationship with an under age child'


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    #42
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    political analyst wrote: »
    I don't need to report it because, presumably, gardaí, health and social care professionals and civil servants are already aware of it!

    The boyfriend has done time in a young offenders' institution but I don't know what offence he was detained for.

    But, you do realise they may not be aware of it.

    Remember those TV ads where the message was if you see a fire, report it, don't assume someone else already has.


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    #43
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Owryan wrote: »
    But, you do realise they may not be aware of it.

    Remember those TV ads where the message was if you see a fire, report it, don't assume someone else already has.

    According to the OP's OP, she became pregnant aged 15. The medical professionals and (probably) the social worker would have investigated how she became pregnant and acted accordingly. If matters are as outlined in the OP, there is no need to report.


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    #44
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Surely the title should be 'when a man has a relationship with an under age child'

    The girl is now in her early 20s - their children were born a long time ago.


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    #45
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    political analyst wrote: »
    The girl is now in her early 20s - their children were born a long time ago.

    How does that change anything?


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    #46
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    political analyst wrote: »
    The girl is now in her early 20s - their children were born a long time ago.

    From the op it appeared as though this was a recent occurance.


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    #47
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    lawred2 wrote: »
    How does that change anything?

    It means there's no onus on me to report it - I wasn't even aware of their existence when they got together. She and her boyfriend had been taunting me on occasions over a couple of years - she's definitely no innocent - though it was her boyfriend who approached me in a threatening manner.


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    #48
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Owryan wrote: »
    From the op it appeared as though this was a recent occurance.

    Relatively recent - the girl gave birth to her second child when she was 17 and is now in her early 20s. The boyfriend was in his early 20s when they conceived their first child, who was born and died when the girl was 16.


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    #49
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Is the title of this thread the original draft title for a song by Percy Sledge?


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    #50
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Is the title of this thread the original draft title for a song by Percy Sledge?

    It's the title of the scenario we're discussing - there are many cases like the one I mentioned - and it's not funny!


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    #51
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    political analyst wrote: »
    The following scenario is the basis for this OP:

    A 15-year-old girl becomes pregnant by a man in his early 20s ...

    Before the legislation on mandatory reporting of allegations of child abuse was introduced, was there a legal or ethical on obligation on doctors, nurses and civil registrars to report the offence known in law as defilement of a child under the age of 17 years in cases like the above scenario?


    Why are you asking?


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    #52
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    gozunda wrote: »
    Why are you asking?

    You'll find the answers to that question in posts 37 and 47. If it wasn't for the incidents I mentioned in those posts I wouldn't be any the wiser about that couple.


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    #53
    Raging_Ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    Went to school with a fella who in his early twenties got into a relationship with a 14 year old. Her father caught them going at it one day and rightly called the guards.

    At the trial she gave evidence while heavily pregnant with another guy's kid. He got a year or 2 in jail.


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    #54
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,201 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Raging_Ninja wrote: »
    Went to school with a fella who in his early twenties got into a relationship with a 14 year old. Her father caught them going at it one day and rightly called the guards.

    Just called the Guards? Not too many fathers would have left anything for the Guards in that instance.


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    #55
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,075 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    political analyst wrote: »
    The following scenario is the basis for this OP:

    A 15-year-old girl becomes pregnant by a man in his early 20s with whom she has a relationship. The child dies shortly after birth. Then the couple conceive another child before she is 17 years old - the age of consent in the Republic.

    Before the legislation on mandatory reporting of allegations of child abuse was introduced, was there a legal or ethical on obligation on doctors, nurses and civil registrars to report the offence known in law as defilement of a child under the age of 17 years in cases like the above scenario?


    You're asking for a "friend" I take it?


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    #56
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,075 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Just called the Guards? Not too many fathers would have left anything for the Guards in that instance.


    You family might be a bit different........


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    #57
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,075 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Surely the title should be 'when a man has a relationship with an under age child'


    As opposed to an over age child?


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    #58
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    You're asking for a "friend" I take it?

    They're definitely not my friends. As I've already said, I reported the girl's boyfriend to the gardaí for threatening behaviour.


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    #59
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    As opposed to an over age child?

    Technically, 17-year-olds are children.


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