Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

lifeandtimes

https://irishtechnews.ie/calling-all-new-irish-crypto-millionaires-what-will-your-tax-bill-look-like/

Noctifer

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://irishtechnews.ie/calling-all-new-irish-crypto-millionaires-what-will-your-tax-bill-look-like/

Unfortunately no information on how exactly calculate the trades.

Flossy Flossy

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://irishtechnews.ie/calling-all-new-irish-crypto-millionaires-what-will-your-tax-bill-look-like/

Written by a journalism student from DCU.. it's still not guidance from Revenue.

Fakent.ie

GreeBo wrote: »

If you cash out completely then the intermediate txns are all irrelevant, not just alt - alt.

Intermediate txns are relevant when you dont completely cash out as you have realised a gain.

ye but your saying that we owe the revenue tax when we trade between alts at the end of each year aswell even if we don't go to euro

Shamo

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://irishtechnews.ie/calling-all-new-irish-crypto-millionaires-what-will-your-tax-bill-look-like/

That is a copy and paste from the taxback article I posted at the start of this thread.

I see that the link I posted was since removed but google will find it.

GreeBo

Fakent.ie wrote: »

ye but your saying that we owe the revenue tax when we trade between alts at the end of each year aswell even if we don't go to euro

Yes, because CGT is liable upon disposal.

Until and unless revenue state that crypto to crypto transfers are not categorized as disposals then since crypto currencies are assets, CGT is due.

Romanenko

machiavellianme wrote: »

I took the liberty of contacting revenue due to the constant speculation on here.
Please see below:

Questions:

1. Are cryptocurrency trades subject to tax (or is it considered gambling)?

2. If taxable, is Capital Gains Tax the correct category? I'm not a professional trader.

3. Is the tax calculated at each trade or only when converted back to official currencies like Euro or Dollars etc. i.e. if I swap litecoin for bitcoin, does that count as profit as there is no real profits until the coins are sold to euro?



Responses:

1. & 2. Profits on cryptocurrency trades are subject to Capital Gains Tax

3. The tax due should be calculated when converted to official currencies.

Thankfully a common sense response.

Fakent.ie

The best way to deal with this situation is ring them yourselfs and leave your answers here to see if any of us get different replies to the same questions

Shamo

It would be great if that was the case. I'll see what response I get from Revenue.

Elessar

I just purchased the a pro membership of cointracking.info to help make sense of all the taxes. Have to say it's very detailed and well worth the price. It calculates current unrealised/realised gains/losses and produces a detailed tax report for you. Lots of other excellent reports aswell - gets into the nitty gritty of what you're spending and what you've lost/gained, what percentile you're in against other traders. It also has a similar page to coinmarketcap with price traking for all coins & lots of other interesting charts.

Only thing is finding out exactly what I need to pay taxes on (from Revenue) - I can generate a tax report based on realised gains for all trades but if I only converted some trades to EUR do I need to pay tax just on that, or the whole lot...

Anyone else using it?

Fakent.ie

Elessar wrote: »

I just purchased the a pro membership of cointracking.info to help make sense of all the taxes. Have to say it's very detailed and well worth the price. It calculates current unrealised/realised gains/losses and produces a detailed tax report for you. Lots of other excellent reports aswell - gets into the nitty gritty of what you're spending and what you've lost/gained, what percentile you're in against other traders. It also has a similar page to coinmarketcap with price traking for all coins & lots of other interesting charts.

Only thing is finding out exactly what I need to pay taxes on (from Revenue) - I can generate a tax report based on realised gains for all trades but if I only converted some trades to EUR do I need to pay tax just on that, or the whole lot...

Anyone else using it?

How much was it sounds decent , and best of contacting them yourself we've only had 2 people report of contacting them and both have said pay when coverting to official currencies (euro). but contact yourself to be sure.

barneystinson

Fakent.ie wrote: »

How much was it sounds decent , and best of contacting them yourself we've only had 2 people report of contacting them and both have said pay when coverting to official currencies (euro). but contact yourself to be sure.

Who's the 2? I only saw one..?

Elessar

Fakent.ie wrote: »

How much was it sounds decent , and best of contacting them yourself we've only had 2 people report of contacting them and both have said pay when coverting to official currencies (euro). but contact yourself to be sure.

It was 0.0114 BTC I think, about €112. Not cheap but for the sake of getting the taxes sorted it was worth it. The other features are pretty neat aswell.

Fakent.ie

barneystinson wrote: »

Who's the 2? I only saw one..?

I spoke with one guy offline not actually in here if use dont want to take my word for it thats fine but i know he said it lol maybe i shudnt of worded the last post like that

Fakent.ie

Elessar wrote: »

It was 0.0114 BTC I think, about €112. Not cheap but for the sake of getting the taxes sorted it was worth it. The other features are pretty neat aswell.

and do you know if its accurate you should try work it out yourself see if its on point or not maybe theres some reviews online or something.

Flossy Flossy

Elessar wrote: »

I just purchased the a pro membership of cointracking.info to help make sense of all the taxes. Have to say it's very detailed and well worth the price. It calculates current unrealised/realised gains/losses and produces a detailed tax report for you. Lots of other excellent reports aswell - gets into the nitty gritty of what you're spending and what you've lost/gained, what percentile you're in against other traders. It also has a similar page to coinmarketcap with price traking for all coins & lots of other interesting charts.

Only thing is finding out exactly what I need to pay taxes on (from Revenue) - I can generate a tax report based on realised gains for all trades but if I only converted some trades to EUR do I need to pay tax just on that, or the whole lot...

Anyone else using it?

It doesn't manage Bitfinex margin trading correctly.

Selik

Flossy Flossy wrote:

It doesn't manage Bitfinex margin trading correctly.

Taxes wouldn't normally be due on margin trading as it's considered gambling. Same for spread-betting and CFDs.

Fakent.ie

Selik wrote: »

Taxes wouldn't normally be due on margin trading as it's considered gambling. Same for spread-betting and CFDs.

Where did you see that ? not to question you as if your wrong i'd just like to know

Selik

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that CGT isn't usually due if trading with leverage. The only exception to this would be if trading was your day job.

thegolfer

Selik wrote: »

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that CGT isn't usually due if trading with leverage. The only exception to this would be if trading was your day job.

Wrong. CFD's are taxable under CGT.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/historic-material/ebrief/2007/no-362007.aspx

Selik

thegolfer wrote:

Wrong. CFD's are taxable under CGT.

I meant spread betting with leverage. My bad I should have been more clear !

D-K

For people who have not reached the Cgt threshold of 1250, do you still have to file a return?

Noctifer

D-K wrote: »

For people who have not reached the Cgt threshold of 1250, do you still have to file a return?

Yes. Even though you don't own them any taxes they could fine you for not reporting it if they would ever audit you.

I know someone who had this happen to them with stock, not crypto.

D-K

Noctifer wrote: »

Yes. Even though you don't own them any taxes they could fine you for not reporting it if they would ever audit you.

I know someone who had this happen to them with stock, not crypto.

Perfect thanks, is it the CG1 form?

lifeandtimes

Just wanted to ask, everyone in this thread is an upstanding citizen and wants to pay their tax.

But just to play devils advocate what is the legal way to "avoid" paying capital gains tax?

If you made say a million before cashing it into a bank account, would you need to leave the state "travelling" for best part of a year for 2 years to technically not be a resident and then come back or because you made the gain while living here it will always be due? Could you lose citizen ship for being gone for that amount of time?

I'm interested in knowing, not that id be arsed going through all that avoid it, I'm ok to pay the 33%

AlmightyCushion

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Just wanted to ask, everyone in this thread is an upstanding citizen and wants to pay their tax.

But just to play devils advocate what is the legal way to "avoid" paying capital gains tax?

If you made say a million before cashing it into a bank account, would you need to leave the state "travelling" for best part of a year for 2 years to technically not be a resident and then come back or because you made the gain while living here it will always be due? Could you lose citizen ship for being gone for that amount of time?

I'm interested in knowing, not that id be arsed going through all that avoid it, I'm ok to pay the 33%

You'd have to leave for 3 years. You wouldn't be able to spend either more than 180 days per year or 280 days every 2 years or you would become resident again. There may be other rules that you would need to look into. If you have maid that much money you should really be asking a tax lawyer/accountant instead of the good people of boards.

barneystinson

Some clarification of their view by HMRC here:
https://www.accountancylive.com/hmrc-clarifies-tax-treatment-cryptocurrencies

Basically confirming that cryptocurrency is treated no different to any other asset or currency.

Also for those balking at the idea of recognising each trade between cryptocurrencies as a disposal, this is no different than trading a holding of yen, for dollars, for Swiss francs, for Aus dollars... each of those trades into a different currency is a disposal of a distinct asset and acquisition of another distinct asset.

Anyone who believes cryptocurrencies ought to be recognised as currencies, is trying to ride two horses at the same time if they also think trades between different currencies should somehow not be viewed as disposals/acquisitions of different assets.

Fakent.ie

barneystinson wrote: »

Some clarification of their view by HMRC here:
https://www.accountancylive.com/hmrc-clarifies-tax-treatment-cryptocurrencies

Basically confirming that cryptocurrency is treated no different to any other asset or currency.

Also for those balking at the idea of recognising each trade between cryptocurrencies as a disposal, this is no different than trading a holding of yen, for dollars, for Swiss francs, for Aus dollars... each of those trades into a different currency is a disposal of a distinct asset and acquisition of another distinct asset.

Anyone who believes cryptocurrencies ought to be recognised as currencies, is trying to ride two horses at the same time if they also think trades between different currencies should somehow not be viewed as disposals/acquisitions of different assets.

thats united kingdom?

are you saying that each trade between cryptos is due tax or not i'm confused with what your saying

AlmightyCushion

Fakent.ie wrote: »

thats united kingdom?

are you saying that each trade between cryptos is due tax or not i'm confused with what your saying

That is what he is saying.

barneystinson

Fakent.ie wrote: »

thats united kingdom?

Yes, where they have similar definitions of things like chargeable assets.

Fakent.ie wrote: »

are you saying that each trade between cryptos is due tax or not i'm confused with what your saying

Yes. In the same way as you would when exchanging currencies, as in my example.