Modern life, Family, Farm & Friends

Muckit

I said I'd start this thread as l think it's a big issue for farming going forward. Returns from many enterprises are reducing and part time farming is the reality for most. However, in an already busy modern lifestyle (2 parents working full time, a mortgage, rearing a young family), where does.... how does..... CAN..... farming fit in?

This is a thread about the stresses of keeping all the balls in the air. I know this is all personal stuff. But l got a hint on this forum during the week that farming is putting severe stress on personal relationships. I find this very sad but can see how it happens.

As I've already said, returns are low for the time and money invested. We've been robbed of a career and in many cases even just a decent minimum wage hourly return (€9.25 moving to €9.55/hr) Teagasc actually has a heading for 'number of unpaid hours' on the bottom of it's E profit monitor....

Money is one thing, but are we going to let farming rob us of our girlfriends, wifes, family and personal life aswell? Of our happiness? Where does the madness end? When do we shout stop?

With the christmas 'holiday' period a week away and the new year around the corner, it might be an ideal time for us all to take stock. In a positive way. See what we have, not what we haven't. How is your health? Have you a loving wife/ husband/ girlfriend/ boyfriend in your life? How is your family circumstances- your parents, siblings and/or your own family?

Farming is a lovely way of life, but needs to fit in around the rest of our lives, not the other way round. Family comes first and all that. I know being a farmer (even small and part time) our heads can be taken up with farming 24/7. We need to prioritise, become more efficient and realise that we can't make halves of ourselves.

I don't know if this thread will die a death or spark some debate/conversation on the subject but l said I'd throw it out there anyway.

Muckit.

Muckit

Can l just add that even though lve referenced part time farming in my original thread (as in my own case), this is just as much a thread for fulltime farmers also. And probably very relevant with dairy expansion and labour shortages.

Muckit

Kevhog1988

Good thread muckit. I only have a few sheep but can see where you are coming from. Missus is very understanding and happy enough to come along and feed/check them. Ive very few numbers but now that i am home in ireland i want to increase. Will have to make it minimally labour intensive from the outset. Am also doing a 40hr week in dublin which im leaving abd returning in the dark for but just try to do most things on a saturday.

Calfscour

Farming gives a poor return for the work involved. And while we could blame the factories and the milk processors they can't be blamed fully. The real problems are within the retail sector where all they want is quality product at low low prices and which doesn't effect their margin. This needs regulations as tough as the ones we have.

We have also been badly let down by our representative bodies. The IFA ****ed up big time by not reacting fast enough to the controversy last time out. Ornua and the NDC and all these quangos are sitting above in Dublin thinking of ways to spend OUR MONEY! Levies on tags is a joke too.

In conclusion I would be adjusting my system so that I could spend as much time with family and doing things I like rather then slaving away for people who take plenty of time off and couldn't give a ****e about how long you work or the effort you make.

Bullocks

I dont have much bother because the father still does the lions share of work and would say feck the farm if I had to do something with the wife or kids instead , I think he was the opposite when we were growing up and thinks he would have been better off taking more time off
The wife only does a 2 day week with the odd 3rd day some weeks so we are not too bad with childcare .
What I find helps explain the time farming is having a few animals to sell for the wife and kids to have a holiday or something good like that .
We used to row about not spending time at home but we have come to realise thats my problem and not the farms , if I wasnt faming in the evenings I'd be working late , drinking porter or worse
Personally I think family life is getting too busy now and we need to cut back :
2 parents working full time is tough and I would urge people to look at any other alternatives (not easy I know )
Do kids need as many activities as they are doing , we had horseriding , handball , judo , rugby , hurling , lego club , football , olympic handball .
It was costing a rake of money in memberships, insurance, kit gear and at least an extra tank of diesel a week hauling them around , not to mention not having time for dinner a few evenings in the week .
We cut it all out except judo for one and handball for the other and it saved alot of running around , time and money .
Nothing wrong with having farming a few times a week as a hobby
If the father stops doing the feeding and herding I will take a day off in the week rather than eat into evenings anymore than it is

Dont be overstocked either , a couple of buddies are constantly trying to grow the herd (sucklers mainly ) its not worth it . They will never pay you a weekly wage but if lightly stocked will not be too much work and have a better chance of keeping more of the mart cheque to yourself

wrangler

Bullocks wrote: »

I dont have much bother because the father still does the lions share of work and would say feck the farm if I had to do something with the wife or kids instead , I think he was the opposite when we were growing up and thinks he would have been better off taking more time off
The wife only does a 2 day week with the odd 3rd day some weeks so we are not too bad with childcare .
What I find helps explain the time farming is having a few animals to sell for the wife and kids to have a holiday or something good like that .
We used to row about not spending time at home but we have come to realise thats my problem and not the farms , if I wasnt faming in the evenings I'd be working late , drinking porter or worse
Personally I think family life is getting too busy now and we need to cut back :
2 parents working full time is tough and I would urge people to look at any other alternatives (not easy I know )
Do kids need as many activities as they are doing , we had horseriding , handball , judo , rugby , hurling , lego club , football , olympic handball .
It was costing a rake of money in memberships, insurance, kit gear and at least an extra tank of diesel a week hauling them around , not to mention not having time for dinner a few evenings in the week .
We cut it all out except judo for one and handball for the other and it saved alot of running around , time and money .
Nothing wrong with having farming a few times a week as a hobby
If the father stops doing the feeding and herding I will take a day off in the week rather than eat into evenings anymore than it is

Dont be overstocked either , a couple of buddies are constantly trying to grow the herd (sucklers mainly ) its not worth it . They will never pay you a weekly wage but if lightly stocked will not be too much work and have a better chance of keeping more of the mart cheque to yourself

Just a few thoughts from someone looking back.
Life is over in a flash, you will regret wasting it farming, I'm referring to drystock now, Dairy farmers seem to be able to employ lots of help when they're set up, so don't let it eat too much into your spare time.
kids, and I have no experience, but nowadays I don't know why they ever leave home. no point worrying about too much time farming if they strangle you instead. Have a neighbour here that refers to what his married son does as driving children rather than looking after children.
Think of the suckler cow, It's unbelieveable what a suckler cow will eat, but its also amazing how little a suckler cow will live on and perform on.
Probably the family with the worst outcome that i know were the most spoilt growing up.
Life is a gift don't waste it

Muckit

All these lads in sucklers or in beef that are talking of expanding l find are usually not farming in their own right. Daddy is running the show, they have a few cattle of their own, they are usually single and majority of their interaction with the farm revolves around an odd evening, an odd Saturday here and there and driving the tractor during the summer. I know....l WAS that person!

Kerryman79

Due to a number of different factors we leased our lot out this year , the old fella is pushing on , i went back to uni and the brothers happy out in full time well paid employment, one thing i will say is i f***ing miss it especially after a few hours with the head stuck in books wishing i was out in the fields, it a way of life not a job, best i can hope for in future is hobby farmer. I feel for you guys , kids and OH have to come first. On reflection i loved growing up around the farm , wouldn't trade it for the world !

wrangler

Muckit wrote: »

All these lads in sucklers or in beef that are talking of expanding l find are usually not farming in their own right. Daddy is running the show, they have a few cattle of their own, they are usually single and majority of their interaction with the farm revolves around an odd evening, an odd Saturday here and there and driving the tractor during the summer. I know....l WAS that person!

Hence my point about our national reserve going to 'Coppers', It's the scenario of a lot of the ''partnerships'' i see

wrangler

Kerryman79 wrote: »

Due to a number of different factors we leased our lot out this year , the old fella is pushing on , i went back to uni and the brothers happy out in full time well paid employment, one thing i will say is i f***ing miss it especially after a few hours with the head stuck in books wishing i was out in the fields, it a way of life not a job, best i can hope for in future is hobby farmer. I feel for you guys , kids and OH have to come first. On reflection i loved growing up around the farm , wouldn't trade it for the world !

You won't regret it, graduates are walking into great jobs, a young friend is after getting a €17000 raise after being three years in a job and threatening to leave.
there must be a huge skill shortage out there, another friend, a teacher, told me his son started on the same salary as he himself finished on

Who2

I changed a few things this year around the yard, a properly hung gate here and there, a loader on the tractor, batching the cttle properly and just being organized. I've cut my time rooting around the yard by more than half. I have 4 light heifers on straw and I spent more time cleaning and rooting with them yesterday than it took to look after them than all the rest. Good vaccinations, good handling facilities and good machinery and your farming time is very quick. How much time does the average farmer waste looking for pins for 3 point linkage, beating a pto shaft off one implement to try make it fit on another. That's just a few things, Theres hundreds more out there on the average farm that just soak time. Outfarms are another huge drain on time that people don't realize.

Kevhog1988

wrangler wrote: »

You won't regret it, graduates are walking into great jobs, a young friend is after getting a €17000 raise after being three years in a job and threatening to leave.
there must be a huge skill shortage out there, another friend, a teacher, told me his son started on the same salary as he himself finished on

Massive skills shortage out there

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

Just a few thoughts from someone looking back.
Life is over in a flash, you will regret wasting it farming, I'm referring to drystock now, Dairy farmers seem to be able to employ lots of help when they're set up, so don't let it eat too much into your spare time.
kids, and I have no experience, but nowadays I don't know why they ever leave home. no point worrying about too much time farming if they strangle you instead. Have a neighbour here that refers to what his married son does as driving children rather than looking after children.
Think of the suckler cow, It's unbelieveable what a suckler cow will eat, but its also amazing how little a suckler cow will live on and perform on.
Probably the family with the worst outcome that i know were the most spoilt growing up.
Life is a gift don't waste it

"Life is over in a flash, you will regret wasting it farming, I'm referring to drystock now,"

Working full time here with a few young kids, wife working full time and also fattening cattle. Enjoying all of the above and don't believe I'm "wasting" My time farming. For the hours worked i believe it's paying well.

20silkcut

Great thread I was going to start something similar on time management and time visualization. Last night I was bedding calves and needed to lift two bales of straw off a trailer. I estimated about an hours work.
I was not in the door till 9pm. After finishing the day job at 5pm.
The tractor wouldn’t start and had to be jump started and it was in an awkward position. These are the things that drive you around the bend.
You keep have to tell yourself that as long as animal welfare is good and your not breaking any laws you can just walk away and go back inside. Family and personal relationships are so precious. You will lose them if you are totally immersed in farming and chasing perfection.

yosemitesam1

Muckit wrote: »

All these lads in sucklers or in beef that are talking of expanding l find are usually not farming in their own right. Daddy is running the show, they have a few cattle of their own, they are usually single and majority of their interaction with the farm revolves around an odd evening, an odd Saturday here and there and driving the tractor during the summer. I know....l WAS that person!

Most lads I know have it stuck in their head that if they're not increasing production and pushing things hard that they're at nothing. A lot of the same fellas would be happy to tell you how yield is vanity and profit is sanity when it comes to milk but don't see the irony in them saying that.
Was talking to a lad a few weeks ago and it came up that I was planning on getting into dairy in a few years. But when he heard that it was only starting with 15 maybe increase to 30 depending on how things go, he left insulted that I could question whether or not it made sense for him to borrow a couple of hundred grand to work like a fool but I could be sure of myself going forward with under 100 cows

Bullocks

20silkcut wrote: »

Great thread I was going to start something similar on time management and time visualization. Last night I was bedding calves and needed to lift two bales of straw off a trailer. I estimated about an hours work.
I was not in the door till 9pm. After finishing the day job at 5pm.
The tractor wouldn’t start and had to be jump started and it was in an awkward position. These are the things that drive you around the bend.
You keep have to tell yourself that as long as animal welfare is good and your not breaking any laws you can just walk away and go back inside. Family and personal relationships are so precious. You will lose them if you are totally immersed in farming and chasing perfection.

There is holy ****ing hell here if a tractor doesn't start here . It got bad for awhile cos the old boy
likes tinkering and would jump-start a tractor everyday for a month , no panic on him . I bought three new batteries in a month and the three of them were "loaned out " to lads that were stuck and didn't come back !
The worst was the loader with the grab left in the feed passage with no battery and a tractor in front of it also with no battery , I nearly cried !
It doesn't happen anymore though haha

anthony500_1

Bullocks wrote:

There is holy ****ing hell here if a tractor doesn't start here . It got bad for awhile cos the old boy likes tinkering and would jump-start a tractor everyday for a month , no panic on him . I bought three new batteries in a month and the three of them were "loaned out " to lads that were stuck and didn't come back ! The worst was the loader with the grab left in the feed passage with no battery and a tractor in front of it also with no battery , I nearly cried ! It doesn't happen anymore though haha

It's funny, most tractors are worth at a min of 10k on most farms, yet the thought of buying a new battery or getting the alternator repaid kills lads. And as you say, you would loose so much time jump starting them it's a faulse economy

_Brian

The example of the tractor not starting when you need to feed is an excellent one.
I’m often on a tight time frame, getting a bit of feeding etc done between dropping kids to activity and being back to pick them up, it’s a finite timeline, there’s no option to leave them standing waiting in the dark cold.

One thing we have done is the cheap Lidl battery chargers, they have a “frost protection” setting. It senses a battery condition and then trickle charges where required. I think it cost €15 a unit. The units sit on top of the battery permanently and when the weather is very cold I run an extension lead through the shed and plug in the tractor. We laugh sometimes it’s like we have e-tractors, plug it out, use it and plug it in again.
But in frosty weather it’s a gift that it starts every time, and it’s not hard charging all the time so doesn’t damage the battery.

Sometimes jumping a tractor is the 20minutes that kills getting a job done.

L1985

Really think this is a valuable thread. I was just sitting down and reevaluating things last night.i work full time in a demanding role and farm suckers as well. It was fine as I'd get the big stuff done in the Saturdays but dad did the small stuff during the week. However dads not able to do much at all at the moment (and I just have to work around that he won't be able to for planning ahead) so its all fallen back on me.sat down last night and realised the last 6 weekends I've worked full heavy days on Saturdays and heavy days on Sundays as well along with an hour in the morning and similar in the evening. This isn't sustainable as works mental busy as well and I've been cut down to no social life. I'm lucky I don't have kids but at the same time I'm also single and my workloads probably the reason why!! I don't want to turn around and regret things in 10years and working myself into exhaustion isn't a smart move. Just decided I'm going to take on help on Saturdays-I didn't feel like I could Justify it as we are expanding and didn't want to take money from it, but need to change my mentality!! On the efficiency side of things I'm a huge believer in that and simple things can make such a difference!! Some of the older folk just loved hardship!!! imsuppose it's balancing doing what you love but having time for other things as well!!

tractorporn

This is a great thread muckit. The situation here is that I am in partnership with the Father and working a full week and I have a 15 month old baby at home. The over riding thing I feel is guilt. When I spend time with the family I feel like I should be on the farm and visa versa.

I'm lucky that dad is still fairly active but we are in a real destocking push at the moment. Have sold stock and will sell more once the year changes. My target now is to keep to our reference for the BDGP. It's all in an effort to make things as simple as possible and to save time.

blue5000

Great thread muckit. Bullocks if someone gave away 3 new batteries I'd afuppin killed them. Spent 150 + vat on a new battery for the fiat last week and it was money well spent.

The biggest waste of time for me is fragmented land, but at least the cattle are all in one yard for the winter. Sharing electric fencers with lads who don't give a sh** about wires earthing was one of my biggest problems this year. Eventually he got the message and bought his own fencer.

With regard to kid's activities I'd be very slow to cut back on them, after all there is more to life than farming, they need to learn networking skills etc. Basketball is one of the best sports for them to be involved in, fast, intense bursts, ball control, teamwork, passing, crouching, ducking and blocking, they're not going to learn much in front of an x-box, rant over for now.

Bullocks

blue5000 wrote: »

Great thread muckit. Bullocks if someone gave away 3 new batteries I'd afuppin killed them. Spent 150 + vat on a new battery for the fiat last week and it was money well spent.

The biggest waste of time for me is fragmented land, but at least the cattle are all in one yard for the winter. Sharing electric fencers with lads who don't give a sh** about wires earthing was one of my biggest problems this year. Eventually he got the message and bought his own fencer.

With regard to kid's activities I'd be very slow to cut back on them, after all there is more to life than farming, they need to learn networking skills etc. Basketball is one of the best sports for them to be involved in, fast, intense bursts, ball control, teamwork, passing, crouching, ducking and blocking, they're not going to learn much in front of an x-box, rant over for now.

Twas hard to kill the old fella but I came close haha.
On the activities, I think they were just doing too much and everyone was getting tired of all the go .They seem to be getting plenty of time with buddies all the time .
The oldest lad had his first time in town with his buddies on their own last Saturday and got on grand thankfully

Water John

Yes, the childrens activities need a limit. Parents can end up being blue arsed flies. If they 1 or 2 activities, it is important to stay involved with them. Don't farm them out, if you excuse the pun.
Simply up early, going all day and bed late, more or lees 7 days a week, most of us have done. The results are burn out, mental health and relationship issues.
Industry and media voices are pushing it as, the way to go. They pay lip service to the downside, in reality. Each family must take control of their own work/leisure time.

whelan2

Water John wrote: »

Yes, the childrens activities need a limit. Parents can end up being blue arsed flies. If they 1 or 2 activities, it is important to stay involved with them. Don't farm them out, if you excuse the pun.
Simply up early, going all day and bed late, more or lees 7 days a week, most of us have done. The results are burn out, mental health and relationship issues.
Industry and media voices are pushing it as, the way to go. They pay lip service to the downside, in reality. Each family must take control of their own work/leisure time.

Spend a good bit of time on the road with the kids. I think it's great for them. Each child has 2 sports. Our daughter is 14. She has friends from primary school, other friends in secondary, friends from gaelic and friends from soccer. Was talking to my sister in law, her lad is also 14. I asked her does he do any sports, she said pe twice a week. I asked does he have many friends and she said one but he wouldn't really be a great friend. I dont mind bringing them wherever, we get time to talk while traveling and I also get to talk to people. It's only for a few years anyway as they will move on soon enough.
Try to be finished up here by 6 each evening to get away with them.

carrollsno1

In relation to activities id strongly encourage it. Im from a hurling stronghold and im not a hurler so there was SFA for me to do, would have loved to have played rugby but it wasnt encouraged or gaelic football but thats non existent. In the end it turned out the closest friends i have about 6 of us are just farming nuts some of the lads havent been with a woman yet because they have feck all social skills and never came out of there shells.

Re the work life balance plan is work hard for rest of my 20s, and get into dairying in my own right in my 30s OAD is the way forward, maybe do a AI run for 6 weeks for the first few years until production rises and help cover bank loans. But once i hit 35 ill be classed as an old farmer technically and all my peers will be sitting in offices on a good salary, hopefully im my own boss by then and have my weekends and evenings to spend with whstever family i have by then as well as having a nice milk cheque coming in too

K.G.

whelan2 wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

Yes, the childrens activities need a limit. Parents can end up being blue arsed flies. If they 1 or 2 activities, it is important to stay involved with them. Don't farm them out, if you excuse the pun.
Simply up early, going all day and bed late, more or lees 7 days a week, most of us have done. The results are burn out, mental health and relationship issues.
Industry and media voices are pushing it as, the way to go. They pay lip service to the downside, in reality. Each family must take control of their own work/leisure time.

Spend a good bit of time on the road with the kids. I think it's great for them. Each child has 2 sports. Our daughter is 14. She has friends from primary school, other friends in secondary, friends from gaelic and friends from soccer. Was talking to my sister in law, her lad is also 14. I asked her does he do any sports, she said pe twice a week. I asked does he have many friends and she said one but he wouldn't really be a great friend. I dont mind bringing them wherever, we get time to talk while traveling and I also get to talk to people. It's only for a few years anyway as they will move on soon enough.
Try to be finished up here by 6 each evening to get away with them.

At the moment we are flat out on thr road with sport and its brilliant but it would br no bother to see mrdoing the jobs at 11 or 12 at night.the sport is brilliant for them socially and mentally- all the battling and loosing is good for them.another thing when they are in the car with you they are locked onto you and ye can chat away besides pulling them off various tech.also if you take their buddies you ll find about all the headcases in their running so you can keep an eye out for who their friends are.then the.big plus is all the buddies you ll make with the other parents as things go on.prople who take and watch their kids are in generalpositive people who id like to hang around with.so what if you have to work late or early on account if it.better than finishing early and watching tv or being on the boards😆😆

K.G.

Water John wrote: »

Yes, the childrens activities need a limit. Parents can end up being blue arsed flies. If they 1 or 2 activities, it is important to stay involved with them. Don't farm them out, if you excuse the pun.
Simply up early, going all day and bed late, more or lees 7 days a week, most of us have done. The results are burn out, mental health and relationship issues.
Industry and media voices are pushing it as, the way to go. They pay lip service to the downside, in reality. Each family must take control of their own work/leisure time.

Involved with running local clubs and it drives me simple when they say they are too busy when asked them to do something.next thing they are up on Facebook here there and everywhere looking after themselves

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

Spend a good bit of time on the road with the kids. I think it's great for them. Each child has 2 sports. Our daughter is 14. She has friends from primary school, other friends in secondary, friends from gaelic and friends from soccer. Was talking to my sister in law, her lad is also 14. I asked her does he do any sports, she said pe twice a week. I asked does he have many friends and she said one but he wouldn't really be a great friend. I dont mind bringing them wherever, we get time to talk while traveling and I also get to talk to people. It's only for a few years anyway as they will move on soon enough.
Try to be finished up here by 6 each evening to get away with them.

I agree.
The benefits of sport and activities out of school far outweigh the work of running the roads getting kids there. We do huge mileage with sport and activity for the kids and it really has been good for them.
I can definitely say it teaches discipline that bleeds over into school life and hopefully into the future.

_Brian

K.G. wrote: »

At the moment we are flat out on thr road with sport and its brilliant but it would br no bother to see mrdoing the jobs at 11 or 12 at night.the sport is brilliant for them socially and mentally- all the battling and loosing is good for them.another thing when they are in the car with you they are locked onto you and ye can chat away besides pulling them off various tech.also if you take their buddies you ll find about all the headcases in their running so you can keep an eye out for who their friends are.then the.big plus is all the buddies you ll make with the other parents as things go on.prople who take and watch their kids are in generalpositive people who id like to hang around with.so what if you have to work late or early on account if it.better than finishing early and watching tv or being on the boards����

It’s amazing the conversations that flow when your locked in a car with a teenager for a two hour drive.

Like everything else, if you view these activities as a negative then you’ll gain nothing. We make the best of them and gain as a family.

Buford T. Justice XIX

K.G. wrote: »

At the moment we are flat out on thr road with sport and its brilliant but it would br no bother to see mrdoing the jobs at 11 or 12 at night.the sport is brilliant for them socially and mentally- all the battling and loosing is good for them.another thing when they are in the car with you they are locked onto you and ye can chat away besides pulling them off various tech.also if you take their buddies you ll find about all the headcases in their running so you can keep an eye out for who their friends are.then the.big plus is all the buddies you ll make with the other parents as things go on.prople who take and watch their kids are in generalpositive people who id like to hang around with.so what if you have to work late or early on account if it.better than finishing early and watching tv or being on the boards����

Nothing like sitting into the car with 3 or 4 of the lads or lassies and just shutting up and listening. Like you said, you hear about all the nutcases and the lads that should be minded from them just gossiping.

And some very funny stories as well:D

_Brian

It’s handy if you can have flexibility in work, I can usually do school drops in the morning on my way to work
This lets herself get into work early and so she can finish early and do school pick up, homework etc.

Few years ago through an accident my hand was forced to change jobs nearly completely - I took a hit on wages to get a position where I am afforded the flexibility I wanted, after so long punching a clock it’s a breath of fresh air, if I’ve just paperwork to do and no clients to deal with I can work from home. It’s great to be there for homework and all the running about, nip onto the farm and feed etc during daylight.

Bass Reeves

Good thread Muckit.

It is all about organisation and about time managment. In this life we all have choices. However you have to make those choices. Lads complain about there being no money in farming but these are the lads that often chase output or add expense.

There are certain things that eat time up like chaseing cattle or having wild ones. Fencing is a big time saver. The amount of lads that still put up barb wire is frightening, sing strand of electric and a good fencer and a good earth. Simple thing like spending money on paddocks and spring for gates instead of a length of wire that gets stretched and then it slips off. Little things like that are eat time.

I have been lucky with work in that my hours were flexible but the farm was away fron the house. But I am focused on getting in and out the gate in a short time. This was important as up to last year I was involved with an underage GAA team and had to make training or a game twice or three times a week. As well there was music, Scouts and kids had to be collected from the childminder before that.

What happens with most lads is that they will not scarfice money to save time as well as maybe being perfectionists. In a way I cannot do that as the lads is 10 miles from the house so I have to accept there are limitations to what I can do. I have a few ares around the house by 85% of the lads is at the main farm away from the house. That means that take it at the moment I have nearly 90 cattle about 75 inside and 12 weanlings outside. I am in the gate and back out in about 90 minutes on average. ''Slap Bam thank you mam'' sort of an attitude with about the same on Sunday and 4-5 hours Saturday. It is very important to understand the message from the link below.

https://www.sunnyskyz.com/feel-good-story/111/A-teacher-s-life-lessons-using-a-jar-and-some-golf-balls


I cannot under stand the attitude about just because you are parttime that you will be more trime deprived than a fulltime farmer. I think they suffer just the same challenges. Often spending longer in marts and hauling cattle and still having to farm after that. Or lads contracting and farming. Biggest problem is some lads never have enough and are afraid of doing anything different.

Green&Red

Something that came up in our house just last week.

I took over the farm three years ago, luckily my father is still in good health and working away but I'm need for more and more of it. I stay at home two nites during the week doing 2-3 hours in the evening and another hour in the morning before I go back to work. I've a good bit to get done now over christmas but I've made good process changes which have helped with the amount of work to be done.

I was introduced to a lad who works for an investment fund which sets up dairy farms in the US, UK and NZ for pension funds. He reckons done properly in Ireland there is a very good wage to be made out of 100 acres. I'm meeting him after Christmas for a proper meeting with a view to doing a proper business case for going back into dairy full time.

Mentioned it at home, father was happy enough but my mam was completely against it, reckons that the full time job and a few cattle is the way to go but I just don't see it. Its fine now where its not every evening and I'm not married but that will change probably next year and when kids come along its not realistic to be out until 8.30 every evening after a full days work

The other thing is what I really enjoy doing is farming. Had 6 months off this year and it was brilliant

kowtow

Green&Red wrote: »

Something that came up in our house just last week.

I was introduced to a lad who works for an investment fund which sets up dairy farms in the US, UK and NZ for pension funds. He reckons done properly in Ireland there is a very good wage to be made out of 100 acres. I'm meeting him after Christmas for a proper meeting with a view to doing a proper business case for going back into dairy full time.

The idea of creating a property fund for Irish farms occurred to me a while back as well, done properly it could create a ready source of pension income and a dividend for retiring farmers as well as opportunities for young new entrants. Done really well it would diversify it's portfolio into agri-mortgages to enable entrants to transition from employee to share farmer to farmer etc.

Luckily the cow I was beside at the time kicked off a cluster to remind me that I had better things to do in retirement than structure listed property vehicles in my mind.

Done properly it would be an interesting thing. The devil is in the detail and those type of funds go in and out of fashion very quickly, they also have fairly heavy central costs and have been known to be a scam for the unwary... so if you are thinking of getting involved have your eyes very wide open indeed, but don't be discouraged.

Green&Red

Sorry, I didnt mean I would invite them in, it was more a chat around what they see as efficient.
Because they are driven 100% by profit I think it will be the moneyball version of dairy farming, what are we looking for - litres of milk, what is the cheapest way of delivering that

20silkcut

Green&Red wrote: »

Something that came up in our house just last week.

I took over the farm three years ago, luckily my father is still in good health and working away but I'm need for more and more of it. I stay at home two nites during the week doing 2-3 hours in the evening and another hour in the morning before I go back to work. I've a good bit to get done now over christmas but I've made good process changes which have helped with the amount of work to be done.

I was introduced to a lad who works for an investment fund which sets up dairy farms in the US, UK and NZ for pension funds. He reckons done properly in Ireland there is a very good wage to be made out of 100 acres. I'm meeting him after Christmas for a proper meeting with a view to doing a proper business case for going back into dairy full time.

Mentioned it at home, father was happy enough but my mam was completely against it, reckons that the full time job and a few cattle is the way to go but I just don't see it. Its fine now where its not every evening and I'm not married but that will change probably next year and when kids come along its not realistic to be out until 8.30 every evening after a full days work

The other thing is what I really enjoy doing is farming. Had 6 months off this year and it was brilliant

If I was you I would go full time if there is a living to be made and you have enough land there is no way that part time farming can compare to being able to give your full energy to one career.

Icelandicseige

20silkcut wrote: »

If I was you I would go full time if there is a living to be made and you have enough land there is no way that part time farming can compare to being able to give your full energy to one career.

It's a tricky one to Get right. What if you invest in the farm to go full time, depends what there already and high stocking rate and then milk price drops to below the cost of production. Then the **** has hit the fan.
It's a gamble. Farming is a gamble!

Bass Reeves

Green&Red wrote: »

I was introduced to a lad who works for an investment fund which sets up dairy farms in the US, UK and NZ for pension funds. He reckons done properly in Ireland there is a very good wage to be made out of 100 acres. I'm meeting him after Christmas for a proper meeting with a view to doing a proper business case for going back into dairy full time.

Mentioned it at home, father was happy enough but my mam was completely against it, reckons that the full time job and a few cattle is the way to go but I just don't see it. Its fine now where its not every evening and I'm not married but that will change probably next year and when kids come along its not realistic to be out until 8.30 every evening after a full days work

The other thing is what I really enjoy doing is farming. Had 6 months off this year and it was brilliant

Investment funds demand a 10%+ return. I just cannot see the circle being squared on this on a 100 acre farm. I really agree with your mother on this about drystock and a good job. On one hand you say you are not married but kids will be along next year. Now I know that kids can arrive regardless of marriage but either your are in a relationship and it is at this stage or not.

In reality you have to make a choice can you work, live and build on farm or not. In this life we cannot have everything there are scarfices to be made. Herding and management of a drystock farm should not take more that 1-2 hours/day but again that is determined to the time you arrive home at.

Dairying is not a part time business, 100 acres is not big enough to achieve that no matter what a theroist bullsh!tter will talk you into. If you have not walked the walk already with milking cows I be afraid , very afraid.

20silkcut

Icelandicseige wrote: »

20silkcut wrote: »

If I was you I would go full time if there is a living to be made and you have enough land there is no way that part time farming can compare to being able to give your full energy to one career.

It's a tricky one to Get right. What if you invest in the farm to go full time, depends what there already and high stocking rate and then milk price drops to below the cost of production. Then the **** has hit the fan.
It's a gamble. Farming is a gamble!

Icelandicseige wrote: »

20silkcut wrote: »

If I was you I would go full time if there is a living to be made and you have enough land there is no way that part time farming can compare to being able to give your full energy to one career.

It's a tricky one to Get right. What if you invest in the farm to go full time, depends what there already and high stocking rate and then milk price drops to below the cost of production. Then the **** has hit the fan.
It's a gamble. Farming is a gamble!

It is less than ideal to be tearing yourself between two careers.
Your job will suffer your family life will suffer and your farm will not be at its full potential. It is lose lose on every front. 100 acres of good land should provide a decent living no matter what way you look at it.

Water John

A lot of it is about being pulled in too many directions. That can be part time job, full time job, part time farming, full time farming, partner, partner working, children, children school, children sports/hobbies, extended family eg parents.
Too many of those and you really run out of time, head gets frazzled.

BTW, very much in favour of children having sports/hobbies and doing the legwork of being there, the spins in the car etc. Always loved that. But iv'e seen kids doing 5 or 6 different things which is daft.

Buford T. Justice XIX

We try to let them do as much as we can fit in. The benefits in social skills and meeting people is huge both for the kids and parents. We don't make all the matches but we share drop off and collections with the rest of the parents.

It means adjusting start and finish times and can be a right PITA but no body said it was easy.

Everyone is different though but that's life.

Green&Red

Sorry I meant kids will be along in a couple of years, married next year. I'm knocking on 40, its time!
For clarity we were milking up until 10 years ago, in terms of infrastructure and livestock it would be probably €400k investment, netted off against probably €80k.
Add in that you cut out the need for a child minder once any kids are in school and its an extra income

Bass Reeves

Green&Red wrote: »

Sorry I meant kids will be along in a couple of years, married next year. I'm knocking on 40, its time!
For clarity we were milking up until 10 years ago, in terms of infrastructure and livestock it would be probably €400k investment, netted off against probably €80k.
Add in that you cut out the need for a child minder once any kids are in school and its an extra income

If it is possible to build and live on the farm you have two choices farm fulltime milking 100+cows like Bulford dose or hold o to the job and go drystock. I am not sure if I had a good job I would give it up when I could run a drystock farm. As it turns money it will give you a chance to either expand or invest outside the farm

Timmaay

Green&Red wrote: »

Sorry I meant kids will be along in a couple of years, married next year. I'm knocking on 40, its time!
For clarity we were milking up until 10 years ago, in terms of infrastructure and livestock it would be probably €400k investment, netted off against probably €80k.
Add in that you cut out the need for a child minder once any kids are in school and its an extra income

What's the breakdown of that 400k outa interest? It just seems very high considering you were in dairying only 10yrs ago, so surely reasonable amount of infrastructure in place? A 100 cow farm would provide a nice enough income once the borrowings kept low, but having 4k/cow in repayments hanging over it would quickly take the gloss off for me.

Green&Red

We've sold the milking units and tank so I'd imagine I'd invest in two robots, €160k AFAIK, tank, pump, chiller, silo pump €20-40k, we'll say 100 cows/heifers €1500, misc €50k

This is all very back of matchbox stuff and at least three years off given the genomics programme

grassroot1

I find it interesting lads think a robot to be the answer in dairying. Milking twice a day in a 20 unit milking parlour would seem easier. AI would be easier grassland management easier and seeing a sick animal easier. The middle of the day is your own.I would think a lot of the work is around calving and rearing replacements

Green&Red

I presumed it was

grassroot1

Green&Red wrote: »

I presumed it was

Sorry read my post sounded critical didnt mean to be just thinking out loud again apologies

yewtree

Green&Red wrote: »

We've sold the milking units and tank so I'd imagine I'd invest in two robots, €160k AFAIK, tank, pump, chiller, silo pump €20-40k, we'll say 100 cows/heifers €1500, misc €50k

This is all very back of matchbox stuff and at least three years off given the genomics programme

Why would your starting point be two robots?
Is that gross or net spend?
A basic 16 unit could be put in for 50k, with advantage you have some of your grant left over to buy a milk tank.
Dairying can return a good living but as a new entrant if you want to take a living wage straight away then capital spend has to be kept to a minium.

Green&Red

Well I see farmers around me putting in robots, guys that would have been on a par with our farm previously. It would seem pointless to put in a 10 unit system now (thats the size of the parlour) and then replace it in a few years with robots. Its a long term investment and should be treated as such

jaymla627

Green&Red wrote: »

Well I see farmers around me putting in robots, guys that would have been on a par with our farm previously. It would seem pointless to put in a 10 unit system now (thats the size of the parlour) and then replace it in a few years with robots. Its a long term investment and should be treated as such

You should take a peek over on www.thefarmingforum.co.uk and the various robot trends, you'll be going well to get 10 years use out of a robot before having to rip it out and sign a new lease on a new one, long term investment isn't something you can put into the same sentence as a robot