Imminent Implementation of the Clean Livestock Policy for Sheep.

greysides

This is what I've heard...as Ronald Reagan said, 'Trust but verify.'

You are most likely aware of this policy already. It's a done deal so there's no point arguing the rights or wrongs here.

This is some more info on it from Teagasc. The pictures are useful but I've seen sheep worse than the Category C picture presented for slaughter...

Now, to the kernal of the problem. I am reliably informed that as of January 1st, Category C sheep can not be slaughtered. (I can not find any information on Google to confirm this.)

Classification of the sheep will take place prior to slaughter at meat plants.

BUT... once sheep have stood on the ground of the plant they can not be returned to the farm.

If they can not be classified without leaving the transport there will be a problem...

Cattlepen

There will have to be a lot of dagging done . Oh my back!!!!😩😩

greysides

Some sheep might go from Cat C to Cat B when they dry out. The problem is that if they need to leave the lorry to be graded then they can't be returned if they are Cat C, and they can't be slaughtered.

ganmo

greysides wrote: »

Some sheep might go from Cat C to Cat B when they dry out. The problem is that if they need to leave the lorry to be graded then they can't be returned if they are Cat C, and they can't be slaughtered.

Is there any protocol about what happens then?
Will the owner be billed for feed if needed or indeed who owns them

greysides

ganmo wrote: »

Is there any protocol about what happens then?
Will the owner be billed for feed if needed or indeed who owns them

All in the air....

Best advice I can muster is:

1. Check the situation with any plant you may be sending sheep to in the New Year.

2. Have the sheep dry and as clean as possible.

3. See number 1.

4. See number 2.

kk.man

When this comes about the "group lorries " will be a huge issue. It will only take one dirty lot to get the rest into bother and add in a dirty Irish day.

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

When this comes about the "group lorries " will be a huge issue. It will only take one dirty lot to get the rest into bother and add in a dirty Irish day.

bringing lambs in straight off grass before loading is not on,they'll destroy the lorry with ****e and some will lie down, muck on the belly is more trouble than on the arse, but throw in a dirty wet day as well as you say and there'll be chaos.
Our haulier has sealed decks and small pens, even so ours got held back for twenty four hours once this year and they were in overnight before loading.
But they were in with a dirty batch and my lambs were sopping wet

Cran

ganmo wrote: »

Is there any protocol about what happens then?
Will the owner be billed for feed if needed or indeed who owns them

My understanding is they will be held till dry, then shorn and charged back. But factories more concerned with wet animals than dirty and will put pressure on Marts imo

Green farmer

Wonder how this will effect the ordinary lad with a double deck of lambs. Will it be all single deck from now on ? Factories will still need the numbers, factory workers payroll too expensive to be standing around. They need to be constantly feed lambs. Will they be singling out the odd small lad to make an example out of ? Or will they stop one of their agents bring in big numbers ?

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

Wonder how this will effect the ordinary lad with a double deck of lambs. Will it be all single deck from now on ? Factories will still need the numbers, factory workers payroll too expensive to be standing around. They need to be constantly feed lambs. Will they be singling out the odd small lad to make an example out of ? Or will they stop one of their agents bring in big numbers ?

Well, mine were held back this year, I believe it was a shot across the bough because they knew enough would hear about it.
Some lambs are very dirty, farmers take them straight out of the fields and they dirty the lorry and lie down then. You'd be similar to me in that you don't sell straight off ewes, so it doesn't do them any harm to fast them, I'd imagine decks in trailer would be alright if they were fasted

davidk1394

wrangler wrote: »

Well, mine were held back this year, I believe it was a shot across the bough because they knew enough would hear about it.
Some lambs are very dirty, farmers take them straight out of the fields and they dirty the lorry and lie down then. You'd be similar to me in that you don't sell straight off ewes, so it doesn't do them any harm to fast them, I'd imagine decks in trailer would be alright if they were fasted

If their fasted for 24hours and given just water they don't shíte too much. Tis fair going to have animals category C. You'd literally have to drag the animal through muck and shít.

wrangler

davidk1394 wrote: »

If their fasted for 24hours and given just water they don't shíte too much. Tis fair going to have animals category C. You'd literally have to drag the animal through muck and shít.

I reckon twelve hours is plenty, we weighed our last load full and wet and then again 12 hours later fasted and they had lost 3.5 kgs and then brought them in our own trailer...lovely to be able to do it
You're fortunate to be using your own trailer, it's one disadvantage to our group,was never a problem before but it looks like it will be now.
We're on the edge of the group and the lambs are collected as early as 6oc and as they're on the front of the lorry they mightn't be unloaded till after 2oc. They will definitely lie down in that time, even with sawdust you can't have them full

davidk1394

wrangler wrote: »

I reckon twelve hours is plenty, we weighed our last load full and wet and then again 12 hours later fasted and they had lost 3.5 kgs and then brought them in our own trailer...lovely to be able to do it
You're fortunate to be using your own trailer, it's one disadvantage to our group,was never a problem before but it looks like it will be now.
We're on the edge of the group and the lambs are collected as early as 6oc and as they're on the front of the lorry they mightn't be unloaded till after 2oc. They will definitely lie down in that time, even with sawdust you can't have them full

Yeah our lads lost about that much after being fasted 24 hours. Its very handy being able to bring them down ourselves. The auld lad got to know the lads on the line and your man in the lairage. The whole lairage was full there last Wednesday so your man just said run them straight up along. He arrived at 2 and left at 3 with the trailer washed out and cheque in hand. A lot to be said for getting to know lads aswell.

wrangler

davidk1394 wrote: »

Yeah our lads lost about that much after being fasted 24 hours. Its very handy being able to bring them down ourselves. The auld lad got to know the lads on the line and your man in the lairage. The whole lairage was full there last Wednesday so your man just said run them straight up along. He arrived at 2 and left at 3 with the trailer washed out and cheque in hand. A lot to be said for getting to know lads aswell.

They're good there, we need them when dividing lambs, all our members with email addresses get their prices Emailed at 7 oc that evening and the cheque posted the same day

Green farmer

Wonder how this will effect store lamb finishers that strip graze sheep on stubble turnips, fodder beet etc.

orm0nd

wrangler wrote: »

They're good there, we need them when dividing lambs, all our members with email addresses get their prices Emailed at 7 oc that evening and the cheque posted the same day

Why are they still posting cheques? Bank transfer is way handier and cheaper.


Bar private sales icm are the only cause I go to bank.

ganmo

I'd say it's down to what ever IT system they use. And they're too tight to spend money on a new one

wrangler

ganmo wrote: »

I'd say it's down to what ever IT system they use. And they're too tight to spend money on a new one

It's probably taking a week before the money comes out of their account as opposed to immediately with a transfer.
So on 10000 lambs/wk they'd need another million working capital requirement.....that'd be a good enough reason to stay with cheques in my opinion, I wonder what percentage then don't lodge their cheques immediately, I'd say it's unusually high with farmers

wrangler

orm0nd wrote: »

Why are they still posting cheques? Bank transfer is way handier and cheaper.


Bar private sales icm are the only cause I go to bank.

Do you pay everything by transfer as well.......my tenant doesn't use a chequebook either ....great to just find the rent in the account.

ganmo

wrangler wrote: »

It's probably taking a week before the money comes out of their account as opposed to immediately with a transfer.
So on 10000 lambs/wk they'd need another million working capital requirement.....that'd be a good enough reason to stay with cheques in my opinion, I wonder what percentage then don't lodge their cheques immediately, I'd say it's unusually high with farmers

Never considered that.

orm0nd

wrangler wrote: »

Do you pay everything by transfer as well.......my tenant doesn't use a chequebook either ....great to just find the rent in the account.

mostly cards & and transfer when possible cheques would be last resort,

good point re icm , wouldn't have huge numbers & only go to bank when I'd have a few lots, but if there were others like me , it all adds up

In fairness to icm they're fast to issue payment

greysides

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/blacklisted-farmers-fall-foul-of-dirty-sheep-clampdown/?utm_content=bufferb7b23&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


As I understand this week ends the first week of a two week derogation of an EU rule that sheep can't leave a slaughter plant. Currently sheep have been sent for shearing or sent home having failed the Ante-Mortem inspection. Not sure what happens after the second week is over.

Implementation of the rules has resulted in cleaner sheep carcases after slaughter.

wrangler

greysides wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/blacklisted-farmers-fall-foul-of-dirty-sheep-clampdown/?utm_content=bufferb7b23&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


As I understand this week ends the first week of a two week derogation of an EU rule that sheep can't leave a slaughter plant. Currently sheep have been sent for shearing or sent home having failed the Ante-Mortem inspection. Not sure what happens after the second week is over.

Implementation of the rules has resulted in cleaner sheep carcases after slaughter.

Was wondering how they were let back to the farm alright,
Interesting times ahead ......some farmers kick up holy hell at the moment at even having to pay a clipping charge, God help them..:eek:

grassroot1

Where is all this coming from is it to save money on the killing line or a health reason?
I have seen hoggets coming off beet tops and turnips caked in clay that looked as bad as the cat c sheep in the handout I received. Why is it suddenly a problem?
What will happen with spring lambs killed from the field? If I book in my lambs for killing the next day and its spilling rain do I cancel the delivery?

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

Where is all this coming from is it to save money on the killing line or a health reason?

It's due to the human health risk and the requirement on factories to produce visibly clean carases.

I have seen hoggets coming off beet tops and turnips caked in clay that looked as bad as the cat c sheep in the handout I received. Why is it suddenly a problem?

Sheep coming off ploughed fields are going to be a problem. It just isn't going to be acceptable. Some of the sheep sent up the line after coming off ploughed fields are just manky. It's amazing that the abattoir workers can clean them up as well as they do but it still isn't enough to meet rising standards. There have been changes in work practices and investment in equipment in an effort to sort out the problem but it hasn't been enough. The last thing left ot be done is to have sheep clean on delivery. It can be done. Sheep travelling long distances are often cleaner than sheep coming from just down the road.

The rules have been in existence for some time but not enforced. Patience in the Dept. has come to an end. The pressure for change is coming down along the line from the top.

What will happen with spring lambs killed from the field? If I book in my lambs for killing the next day and its spilling rain do I cancel the delivery?

Wet isn't so much the problem as 'wet and dirty'. Dry and dirty is easier to solve.. to a point. Might be best to house lambs overnight before delivering them.

Essentially what I'm told is that the standard has changed and management changes may be needed to meet the new requirements.

razor8

greysides wrote: »

It's due to the human health risk

Patience in the Dept. has come to an end. The pressure for change is coming down along the line from the top.
.

Where’s the evidence of the health risk? Has there been a report to confirm this? If there is maybe farmers would be more understanding if the dept was more transparent on exactly what the agenda is with this policy

Why is patience coming to an end? Are the dept now saying we haven’t been farming sheep properly anymore or why the sudden pressure for such drastic change??

greysides

razor8 wrote: »

Where’s the evidence of the health risk?

E. coli O157, Salmonella, Camplylobacter.

Why is patience coming to an end?

The Clean Livestock Policy has been in effect for some time without being enforced. Factories have been reluctant to enforce it due to losing lambs. The Dept are now insisting on its enforcement.

grassroot1

As I understand it ecoli 0157 is more of a problem in cattle that are housed or on intensive indoor diets. This will hardly be a case with sheep that are mostly fed outdoors. The other two I can't say. I do not recall a case where anyone has got sick from eating lamb.
What will happen with the lambs coming from Scotland if they don't pass inspection?

greysides

A share of the lambs coming in will be coming from feedlots. Thankfully i not heard of anyone getting sick from eating lamb either although somebody somewhere will have, at some time...
I'm told it's a case of rising standards. I know some customers, big customers, have been very particular in their standards.
I don't know what's going to happen to lambs coming long distances as it's still a case of getting the thing sorted but they dont tend to be the guilty culprits. The problem is more likely to be local/regional suppliers and often it's the same people repeatedly. On the other hand, some of the cleanest lambs come in small lots from local suppliers too.
I think it will all settle down when everyone comes to realise exactly what the new standards are. For some it will mean little or no change but for others it will involve some effort and changes in how they go about their business.

razor8

greysides wrote: »

E. coli O157, Salmonella, Camplylobacter.



The Clean Livestock Policy has been in effect for some time without being enforced. Factories have been reluctant to enforce it due to losing lambs. The Dept are now insisting on its enforcement.[/quote

They are the risks but where is the evidence current/recent practices arnt enough??

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

greysides wrote: »

E. coli O157, Salmonella, Camplylobacter.



The Clean Livestock Policy has been in effect for some time without being enforced. Factories have been reluctant to enforce it due to losing lambs. The Dept are now insisting on its enforcement.

They are the risks but where is the evidence current/recent practices arnt enough??

Some farmers taking the proverbial and then we all have to suffer, some lambs are a right mess