Willow for own use.

tractorporn

As above has anyone sown an area of willow for their own use? We have a corner of a field less than half an acre which I am considering planting with willow and harvesting with a chainsaw. It can hardly be any worse than the bog? Are there varieties that will grow to a 4/5 inch log after 5/6 years? My idea would be to harvest a row or 2 every year and leave 5 years growth till your back to that row. Is this feasible or am I mad?

webels

Ordinary Sally will nearly self seed. But will easily grow from cuttings. It should reach 4 to 5 inches well after 5 years. Why not throw in a bit of variety though. Some Alder, river birch, Ash, even maple for a bit of colour. All will coppice well and produce a great return.

tractorporn

webels wrote:

Ordinary Sally will nearly self seed. But will easily grow from cuttings. It should reach 4 to 5 inches well after 5 years. Why not throw in a bit of variety though. Some Alder, river birch, Ash, even maple for a bit of colour. All will coppice well and produce a great return.

Cheers. Never thought of adding in a few different varieties. How long would you have to wait before the first coppice?

webels

Depends on species alder and Sally around 4 to 5 years , Ash up to 7 , Birch around 6 to 7 and maple around 7 to 8 but up to 10 to get bigger diameter. I have 6 inch at base alder after 4 years so depends on ground and growing conditions really. There are plenty others that also really coppice well. If the spot is really wet consider swamp Cyprus and even metasequoia (dawn redwood) a really beautiful tree imo.

tractorporn

webels wrote:

Depends on species alder and Sally around 4 to 5 years , Ash up to 7 , Birch around 6 to 7 and maple around 7 to 8 but up to 10 to get bigger diameter. I have 6 inch at base alder after 4 years so depends on ground and growing conditions really. There are plenty others that also really coppice well. If the spot is really wet consider swamp Cyprus and even metasequoia (dawn redwood) a really beautiful tree imo.

Great info cheers. It's a real wet spot that I'm considering. I was hoping to put in 10 rows and have a 5 year rotation.

webels

That sounds like a plan but as i say look at variety as monoculture leaves you vulnrable to disease such as chalera in ash for example. I've done something very similar on about 1.2 acres got around 300 trees in. It's there now around 3 years. But there's an early section around 6 years old ready for thinning. I'm guessing it's for heating the house etc. If your down south try future forests in Cork they give some great advice on varieties for wet ground although I'm sure there are plenty others providers.... Perfect time of year also for planting as bare root trees will become available in January. Enjoy and im sure the birds and wildlife will also be grateful.

fergus1001

Italian birch would grow nicely

Blackcurrants

Have a look at the non-native biomass varieties of willow. I think we only have three native varieties and certainly not all of them take from cuttings. If you are doing this for your own fuel perhaps look into the new varieties of Eucalyptus for a fast grown biomass. Willow isn't great firewood.

tractorporn

Blackcurrants wrote:

Have a look at the non-native biomass varieties of willow. I think we only have three native varieties and certainly not all of them take from cuttings. If you are doing this for your own fuel perhaps look into the new varieties of Eucalyptus for a fast grown biomass. Willow isn't great firewood.

Yeah this project is for firewood for the house. I'm open to all suggestions for what to plant. The site is boggy so the trees would need to be able to thrive on a wet site. I will look into the Eucalyptus does it burn better than the willow?

Blackcurrants

It sparks and pops like mad so its only really usable in stove but would be a much better fuel than willow. There are hundreds of varieties of Eucalyptus but i don't think many like boggy sites. Birch, Alder, Willow are probably your best bet for fast grown timber here Birch being the best for firewood.

tastyparsnips

tractorporn wrote: »

As above has anyone sown an area of willow for their own use? We have a corner of a field less than half an acre which I am considering planting with willow and harvesting with a chainsaw. It can hardly be any worse than the bog? Are there varieties that will grow to a 4/5 inch log after 5/6 years? My idea would be to harvest a row or 2 every year and leave 5 years growth till your back to that row. Is this feasible or am I mad?

I have planted half a field with 8 different varieties of willow over the past 3 years, 500 trees. The first 4 varieties I planted are not fast growing, apart from one variety which is doing very well. The other 4 varieties I bought by mail order from a specialist willow supplier are doing very well after 2 years. I have started the coppice rotation and just cut down a row of 3 year trees and have them logged for seasoning. We'll see next year how good they are as a fueI! I have also planted a good few birches and while they grow very well they are a lot slower than the willow. So the wait is a while longer for birch. My field is quite wet in winter but that is no problem for willow.

Odelay

Good info Tasty. What size area did you plant, any photos and any regrets??

tractorporn

tastyparsnips wrote:

I have planted half a field with 8 different varieties of willow over the past 3 years, 500 trees. The first 4 varieties I planted are not fast growing, apart from one variety which is doing very well. The other 4 varieties I bought by mail order from a specialist willow supplier are doing very well after 2 years. I have started the coppice rotation and just cut down a row of 3 year trees and have them logged for seasoning. We'll see next year how good they are as a fueI! I have also planted a good few birches and while they grow very well they are a lot slower than the willow. So the wait is a while longer for birch. My field is quite wet in winter but that is no problem for willow.

Sounds like ypu are doing exactly what i was aiming to do? A couple of questions. Where they hard to harveat by hand? What sort of size logs did the 3 year old trees make? Can you remember the names of the varieties that did best?

tastyparsnips

Odelay wrote: »

Good info Tasty. What size area did you plant, any photos and any regrets??

It's only about a quarter of an acre, not enough to be self sufficient, but I hope to get a reasonable supply when the full 5 year rotation starts. As regards regrets - maybe one is not getting the fast growing biomass varieties at the start.

I have lots of photos but can't figure out how to post one here.

tastyparsnips

tractorporn wrote: »

Sounds like ypu are doing exactly what i was aiming to do? A couple of questions. Where they hard to harveat by hand? What sort of size logs did the 3 year old trees make? Can you remember the names of the varieties that did best?

Not hard to harvest at this stage. I used a bow saw. Diameter of logs up to 3 inches but smaller also. Of the first batch I planted Smithiana is good, the others only a curiosity at this stage: cinerea, triandra and fragilis. Nice to have a few samples of them but slow growing. The 4 biomass hybrids are very good. There's 2 types of viminalis - the supplier named them hybrid 1 and hybrid 2!). Another is dasyclades and the 4th is called hybrid green.

tractorporn

tastyparsnips wrote:

Not hard to harvest at this stage. I used a bow saw. Diameter of logs up to 3 inches but smaller also. Of the first batch I planted Smithiana is good, the others only a curiosity at this stage: cinerea, triandra and fragilis. Nice to have a few samples of them but slow growing. The 4 biomass hybrids are very good. There's 2 types of viminalis - the supplier named them hybrid 1 and hybrid 2!). Another is dasyclades and the 4th is called hybrid green.

Bow saw? You definitely were warm twice with that timber. That's great info cheers. Going to look into ordering a few in the new year

tastyparsnips

tractorporn wrote: »

Bow saw? You definitely were warm twice with that timber.
😂

That's great info cheers. Going to look into ordering a few in the new year

ðŸ‘

greysides

tastyparsnips wrote: »

I

I have lots of photos but can't figure out how to post one here.

You haven't enough posts, I think. If you can get them hosted PM the link to them to me and I'll post them for you.

Normally, you'd click on the blue Post Reply at the bottom left of the last post on the page (don't use the quick reply box), then click on in the top line of the full editor.

tastyparsnips

Heres a couple of photos of trees planted (cuttings) early 2016, photo taken in August 17 and in Oct 17

wayoutwest

fergus1001 wrote: »

Italian birch would grow nicely

What is Italian Birch?- couldn't find it in the wiki list of Birch species. How does it compare with the red and silver Irish Birches?

wayoutwest

Nothing wrong with burning willow.....got through 4 or 5 cubic metres so far this winter.
Pic of willow fuel in action, maintaining 400 degrees - rads and water roasting.
20171218_120358.jpg
Cos the (two summers dried) logs are light for their volume, I would be putting say 5 or 6 logs in the stove instead of 4 Ash logs to get the same heat.

mobfromcork

tractorporn wrote: »

As above has anyone sown an area of willow for their own use? We have a corner of a field less than half an acre which I am considering planting with willow and harvesting with a chainsaw. It can hardly be any worse than the bog? Are there varieties that will grow to a 4/5 inch log after 5/6 years? My idea would be to harvest a row or 2 every year and leave 5 years growth till your back to that row. Is this feasible or am I mad?

Did you plant any of the willow species or anything else yet? I'm looking into the exact same job over the next few weeks. Have a wettish field at the back of the house on heavy soil. Got a small bit of drainage done before Christmas to help with the worst spot. Good variety of trees around the perimeter - oak, ash, birch, hazel, alder, willow so hopefully things will grow. Thinking if planting a mixture of willow, alder, hornbeam, birch and a few others. Got good advice from Future Forests so will order stuff from them in a few weeks time.

NancyG

Quick question.....am interested in coppicing willow for garden use (not burning) so will cut stout straight poles around 3 years old. SO, how far down the stem do I cut to encourage straight, accessible regrowth. Was thinking maybe a foot from the ground.....or is this too low? Anyone, any experience if this. Thanks in advance.

tractorporn

mobfromcork wrote:

Did you plant any of the willow species or anything else yet? I'm looking into the exact same job over the next few weeks. Have a wettish field at the back of the house on heavy soil. Got a small bit of drainage done before Christmas to help with the worst spot. Good variety of trees around the perimeter - oak, ash, birch, hazel, alder, willow so hopefully things will grow. Thinking if planting a mixture of willow, alder, hornbeam, birch and a few others. Got good advice from Future Forests so will order stuff from them in a few weeks time.

I have sourced some cuttings but I haven't had a chance to do anything with them yet. It's too cold to plant anything now anyway.

The variety I got from willow tree farm in Galway is Salix Viminalis it's supposed to like wettish ground and grow to a decent size in a 5 year coppice.

baaba maal

NancyG wrote: »

Quick question.....am interested in coppicing willow for garden use (not burning) so will cut stout straight poles around 3 years old. SO, how far down the stem do I cut to encourage straight, accessible regrowth. Was thinking maybe a foot from the ground.....or is this too low? Anyone, any experience if this. Thanks in advance.

I am not an expert, but I would tend to leave a metre above ground for the cut- less bending down! It would allow weeding around the base a bit easier. I think it is a good idea to let it regrow for a year and then selectively prune to leave a few decent shoots.

askU

tractorporn wrote: »

Yeah this project is for firewood for the house. I'm open to all suggestions for what to plant. The site is boggy so the trees would need to be able to thrive on a wet site. I will look into the Eucalyptus does it burn better than the willow?

I don't think Eucalyptus like having wet feet.

Entonces

I planted a few hundred viminalis for firewood last March on a small site. Some of them are near 8 foot tall already and some are less than a foot.

Do I need to coppice them all now to get the best return from them or can I leave them for 5 years and cut then? It would kill me to cut down the big trees. 8 foot growth in one year is incredible

gozunda

Already do this. Used proven disease free local cultivars. Pencil cuttings approx 12 or longer in lenght. Wet area - stuck cuttings in ground in autumn. By late spring approx 94% had taken and produced new growth. Grew on for 1-2 years and cut back to 1 foot to coppice. Left grow min 3 years in rotation when they are cut in lenght and then chopped to size. Produced logs approx 3-5 inch diameter which are then wind dried under cover Brillant fire wood for kitchen Stove. Good heat and store well.

No need to buy foreign cultivars or other species especially for wet conditions. Native willow as biomas grows well and also helps dry out wet land.

memorystick

I'm in Belgium for a few days. We went to Bruges on the train and I was amazed at the amount of coppicing that goes on. They have no ditches like what we have ie. whitethorn, briars and mix but just neat rows of trees cut at about 5 foot and shooting from these the timber that they harvest every few years. There's good piles where it's cut.

gozunda

memorystick wrote: »

I'm in Belgium for a few days. We went to Bruges on the train and I was amazed at the amount of coppicing that goes on. They have no ditches like what we have ie. whitethorn, briars and mix but just neat rows of trees cut at about 5 foot and shooting from these the timber that they harvest every few years. There's good piles where it's cut.

I remember traveling through Belgium years ago and found the flat hedgeless landscape very odd compared to our own. The other thing that struck me that the woodlands were absolutly geometric as if drawn by a ruller and perfectly maintained as you said lol.

Something I forgot to mention with the previous post is that short rotation coppicing of willow is exempt from the need to submit a tree felling licence

A tree of the willow or poplar species planted and maintained solely for fuel under a
short rotation coppice.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/treefelling/ExemptedTreeInformationNote271017.pdf

askU

How would one go about growing willow on a small scale. . .where would I buy it?
Do I look for seed or plants?

tractorporn

askU wrote:

How would one go about growing willow on a small scale. . .where would I buy it? Do I look for seed or plants?

There's a few nurserys round the country that specialises in Willow cuttings. A quick Google search will get you the ones closest to you

Accidentally

tractorporn wrote: »

There's a few nurserys round the country that specialises in Willow cuttings. A quick Google search will get you the ones closest to you

Alternatively ask a local farmer or go for a walk on a river or canal. Most people will be more than happy to let you take as many rods as you want, and it really is as simple as pushing them into the ground and waiting.

memorystick

Accidentally wrote: »

Alternatively ask a local farmer or go for a walk on a river or canal. Most people will be more than happy to let you take as many rods as you want, and it really is as simple as pushing them into the ground and waiting.

Stupid question I know but can this be done up as far as early summer?

gozunda

memorystick wrote: »

Stupid question I know but can this be done up as far as early summer?

Best done in the dormant season ie either mid spring or autumn. The buds on the cuttings should be fully closed when stuck in the ground. Once done the cuttings should start to shoot fairly quickly and send down roots. Depending where you are you may be able to get some in but make sure the buds haven't started to break.

Accidentally

memorystick wrote: »

Accidentally wrote: »

Alternatively ask a local farmer or go for a walk on a river or canal. Most people will be more than happy to let you take as many rods as you want, and it really is as simple as pushing them into the ground and waiting.

Stupid question I know but can this be done up as far as early summer?

I'd do it now if you can. Most willow is just starting to break into leaf.

If you live on really wet ground you'll probably get away with it a bit longer. Some of them will always root, its just your percentage will lessen the longer you wait.