Alleged Throttling of Older iPhones With Degraded Batteries

FGR

This is an interesting one.

MacRumour Link

I can see the mentality behind Apple throttling phones to keep older batteries going - If anything I was wondering if that's contributing to my own iPhone 6 grinding to a halt.

I downloaded cpudasherx and its reporting that the 1.8ghz cpu in my phone is only running at 600mhz, even under load it doesn't budge.

My battery is probably in need of a replacement anyway (been recharged 600+ times by now)

A little off topic - is it worth sending off the phone to Apple to get the battery changed for €90+ or do decent phone shops do as good a job?

Doodah7

Coincidentally I got my battery replaced under warranty in my 6S last week. Its performance is now stellar on iOS 11.1.2 - as good as the day it was bought over 2 years ago - compared to the sluggish performance it had before the repair.

So using my anecdotal evidence, this story is true.

ozmo

Aggh - thanks for the heads up - it seems its true - my phone has been dreadfully slow since I installed IOS 11 - I put it down to OS bloat.

I just checked the CPU speed (Geekbench 4) and yes its throttling back.
Battery lasts over a day - but speed is so slow.

Just off support to Apple and they say they will replace the battery free under warranty (I bought the phone maybe 2 years ago) - they didnt acknowledge it could cause slowness but did say the battery was faulty and could cause random shutdowns.

ozmo

So... CPU was 600Mhz (full power) and 600Mhz (in low power mode)

battery replaced

now says CPU 1800Mhz (full power) and 900Mhz (in low power mode)

The "Low power mode" option we all know is cool - but I'm not ok with this hidden, permanent, even lower power mode.
That's some sneaky trick I must say
- Personally I would like the advertised speed rather than secretly throttle the cpu to hide the fact the battery is faulty.

FGR

Thanks for the update Ozmo. You've made my decision easier to get the battery replaced in my phone asap.

Did you go to compub for the official apple replacement or did you go apple direct - as that replacement was very quick!

FGR

Just after getting the battery changed in a fairly popular third party shop around here - CPUdasherX immediately detected the processor going full whack at 1.4GHZ and switching between apps is as smooth as silk.

There's obviously method to the madness here. Best €40 spent in a while - considering the cost of a replacement phone as good.

server down

ozmo wrote: »

So... CPU was 600Mhz (full power) and 600Mhz (in low power mode)

battery replaced

now says CPU 1800Mhz (full power) and 900Mhz (in low power mode)

The "Low power mode" option we all know is cool - but I'm not ok with this hidden, permanent, even lower power mode.
That's some sneaky trick I must say
- Personally I would like the advertised speed rather than secretly throttle the cpu to hide the fact the battery is faulty.

Yes, they should expose this in the settings. Its a good feature but shouldnt be hidden. Pretty much the settings are largely for advanced users anyway.

ozmo

FGR wrote: »

There's obviously method to the madness here. Best €40 spent in a while - considering the cost of a replacement phone as good.

40 is very good- I went to Mactivate - official IPhone repair in Blanchardstown- would have cost me I think 110 euros... job took about an hour while I waited.
I had go to an official Apple repair because Apple was paying for it as my 6s was covered under some battery recall that’s happening now.

I would just buy the battery and do it myself if I needed to again.

faceman

Apple confirm the throttling is true.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-battery-issues/#ftag=CAD-09-10aai5b

drunkmonkey

faceman wrote: »

Apple confirm the throttling is true.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-battery-issues/#ftag=CAD-09-10aai5b

Why not just tell you the battery needs replacing and allow repair shops to purchase genuine batteries.

They really need a long overdue kick in the nuts from consumer protection agencies.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why not just tell you the battery needs replacing and allow repair shops to purchase genuine batteries.

If they tell you the battery needs replacing, you will have the usual people money saying it's a lie, the battery is fine, and Apple are just trying to make more money out of them :rolleyes:

seamus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why not just tell you the battery needs replacing and allow repair shops to purchase genuine batteries.

Because then people won't spend €1,200 on a new phone that offers very little in the way of a functionality upgrade.

The Apple business model has always been about selling new product. In the US they've even tried to use the courts to have it declared illegal for "unlicenced" business and individuals to repair phones.

j8wk2feszrnpao

BDJW wrote: »

If they tell you the battery needs replacing, you will have the usual people money saying it's a lie

But at least it would be the truth, and not Apple hiding the issue. This is on Apple trying to get people to upgrade (make more money).

Sad Professor

I think the issue here is that Apple didn't know for sure which models would be affected in future. They could have done a recall of all 6s models but that would have been overkill for an issue that wasn't affecting everyone yet. Obviously, as the expansion of this throttling behaviour as revealed, there's a lot of people running batteries that need replacement, so maybe Apple will introduce a warning that tells you when you need a new battery. I reckon third party replacement batteries (actually rejuvenated OEM batteries or fakes) will probably exhibit this as well, which Apple may not have anticipated.

Apple selling OEM batteries to third party repair shops isn't really a solution either unless they are prepared to do it at a massive loss. These shops buy these batteries on Ebay or from Chinese sellers for a few euro each and then charge 40+ euro for 10 minutes work. I can't see shops sacrificing all that profit. Even if they charged more and people were prepared to pay it, there's so many fakes out there how would you know you are getting an OEM part?

I've no problem paying Apple's battery replacement fee. I just wish I didn't have to send the phone away.

drunkmonkey

Well there all fakes at the moment, it's wrong that you can't buy a replacement battery no matter what way you try and justify the reasoning by blaming retailers etc.
If the chap in China can make a fake for penny's making apples one won't be much more expensive probably even cheaper.
If you applied the same logic to cars there would be war and I'd bet the government would get involved but this is apple and they provide jobs in Ireland so do not dare question them and there anti consumer/retailer policy's.

Snake Plisken

I’ve noticed some serious battery drain since going to iOS 11.2 on my 6S Plus when before I’d get a day and a half out of it.

billgibney

Would this not be covered under warranty for up to 5 years as it's a manufacturer fault

faceman

It seems Apple does let users know if they’re battery needs to be replaced. If you look in the right place.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tomwarren/status/943605851385982976

Type 17

billgibney wrote: »

Would this not be covered under warranty for up to 5 years as it's a manufacturer fault

That's exactly the issue - if they don't throttle the processor speed when the battery becomes tired, the phone crashes when high demands are made on the battery* - looks like battery tech hasn't actually kept up with the demands of smartphone users.
Now the cat is out of the bag, people will be queueing around the block demanding new batteries to restore the processor speeds they paid for - there are already class-action lawsuits being prepared in the US.

*Happened my old 2003 iPod - it got to the stage where I couldn't actually sync it with my Mac, as it would shut down before the sync was complete, even though the Mac was providing power through the sync cable. A replacement battery from eBay/china fixed things, but was rubbish quality, and the iPod was unable to sync again after a few months...

ozmo

faceman wrote: »

It seems Apple does let users know if they’re battery needs to be replaced. If you look in the right place.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tomwarren/status/943605851385982976

I was in that screen several times for certain on my 6S and that definitely didn’t appear. My cpu was throttled to 600Mhz (one third normal speed)

faceman

A battery scientist chimes in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7lorpo/battery_scientist_weighing_in_on_this_issue_of/?st=JBKSVTVK&sh=67b32f27

4068ac1elhodqr

Typically lithiums are good for around 1,000cycles, so 3-5yr old phone that is charged regularly may well suffer some battery fatigue. I use battery saver mode at 95% of the time, save the trees etc.

faceman

Brody Immense Factory wrote: »

Typically lithiums are good for around 1,000cycles, so 3-5yr old phone that is charged regularly may well suffer some battery fatigue. I use battery saver mode at 95% of the time, save the trees etc.

According to the Apple website iPhones are only good for 500 cycles. All other Apple products are good for 1000 cycles

ozmo

faceman wrote: »

A battery scientist chimes in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7lorpo/battery_scientist_weighing_in_on_this_issue_of/?st=JBKSVTVK&sh=67b32f27

"Just for clarification, I do agree that Apple hasn’t done their due diligence in communicating this decision with the end-user. Not everyone follows /r/Apple, or their press releases."

Apple never actually released exactly what this fix entailed - they said a change was made to address a very small percentage of people having random shutdowns - not - you will not longer get your quoted cpu speed once you apply this speed limiting patch.

If its so necessary - wonder why Samsung don't have do this?

Three lawsuits in America right now - wonder if EU watchdogs will do anything for us over here?

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/days-after-iphone-battery-fiasco-lawsuits-against-apple-begin-to-mount/

Peatys

ozmo wrote: »

If its so necessary - wonder why Samsung don't have do this?

Three lawsuits in America right now - wonder if EU watchdogs will do anything for us over here?

Class action suit launched in Israel

adox

Cheap batteries for everyone until Dec 2018 it seems.

https://www.apple.com/iphone-battery-and-performance/

Sad Professor

Not for everyone. iPhone 6 and later. And only batteries that "need to be replaced", i.e. are failing according to Apple's diagnostics. We'll have to see how strict they are about this. They are pretty strict about it currently even for devices within warranty, so I can't see them suddenly allowing a free-for-all.

ozmo

Peatys wrote: »

Class action suit launched in Israel

France is suing also now- and this one Could be an expensive one:

“the maximum penalty for companies found guilty under French law is ... five percent of the company’s annual turnover.

Just read their apology- and it’s a start but not enough- there needs to be an option in software to turn this slowdown off not just monitor it. And a battery change in Ireland is 110 euros not $79 also- so 50 dollars off is not a lot really.

Also the Apple letter sounds as if they are just mildly slowing for a short time as needed - this is not what I experienced - I had a permanently slow to be almost unusable IPhone 6s with no hint as to why it was so slow.

Sad Professor

ozmo wrote: »

France is suing also now- and this one Could be an expensive one:

“the maximum penalty for companies found guilty under French law is ... five percent of the company’s annual turnover.

Just read their apology- and it’s a start but not enough- there needs to be an option in software to turn this slowdown off not just monitor it. And a battery change in Ireland is 110 euros not $79 also- so 50 dollars off is not a lot really.

Also the Apple letter sounds as if they are just mildly slowing for a short time as needed - this is not what I experienced - I had a permanently slow to be almost unusable IPhone 6s with no hint as to why it was so slow.

It says €89 plus shipping here. The US price is also exclusive of shipping.

https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/service/pricing

Peatys

By apologising, they must be leaving themselves wide open to claims from customers who upgraded from ip6 due to lagging performance. New battery bit late for them.

listermint

This whole thing has everything to do with shareholder value and nothing to do with user experience.

Keep the sale numbers high for every new phone at all costs.

ozmo

Sad Professor wrote: »

It says €89 plus shipping here. The US price is also exclusive of shipping.

https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/service/pricing

Ta- When I rang Apple support they suggested Mactivate to me - an Apple approved shop in Blanchardstown - and 110 was the price the shop quoted to me.

Grab All Association

This 6s started randomly shutting down at 40%. iOS11 fixed it. Gets about 2 days moderate usage. 7 was only bought in August reluctantly and i get 3 days normal usage out of it. It’s not too bad the 6s performance wise. As long as I can browse, text, call etc I’m happy. If the cost of a replacement battery goes below €60 I may consider it. My Note 4 switches off under 40% would you prefer that?

ozmo

Grab All Association wrote: »

My Note 4 switches off under 40% would you prefer that?

Absolutely - I use my IPhone 6s and mini 4 for flying my DJI Drones and they cannot be anything but full speed or the picture will break up. Apple sell both from their stores are approved to work together.

If a 1 year old 600+ euro phone cannot run at 100% cpu without crashing - then the phone is faulty by design - end of.

In my opinion Apple chose to throttle and importantly not tell us, to prevent a massive phone recall.

Peatys

Grab All Association wrote: »

My Note 4 switches off under 40% would you prefer that?

of course i would. an obvious fixable fault over a hidden mask, sorry patch, that would have me drop 900 quid on a new phone.. no brainer

Paully D

So will a battery change definitely solve the slowdown issue?

I also note from the statement that the rollout won’t be starting until late January. Then there’s surely going to be the inevitable battery shortage as there was when they had the shutdown issue this time last year?

Grab All Association

Paully D wrote: »

So will a battery change definitely solve the slowdown issue?

I also note from the statement that the rollout won’t be starting until late January. Then there’s surely going to be the inevitable battery shortage as there was when they had the shutdown issue this time last year?

I assume it’s late January to source enough batteries.

Grab All Association

Peatys wrote: »

of course i would. an obvious fixable fault over a hidden mask, sorry patch, that would have me drop 900 quid on a new phone.. no brainer

ozmo wrote: »

Absolutely - I use my IPhone 6s and mini 4 for flying my DJI Drones and they cannot be anything but full speed or the picture will break up. Apple sell both from their stores are approved to work together.

If a 1 year old 600+ euro phone cannot run at 100% cpu without crashing - then the phone is faulty by design - end of.

In my opinion Apple chose to throttle and importantly not tell us, to prevent a massive phone recall.

Fair enough if you need full performance. I’d say the majority of us just need our phones charged so the fiancée/wife doesn’t scream at us.

ozmo

Paully D wrote: »

So will a battery change definitely solve the slowdown issue?

Yes- but... now you will be on the countdown until it starts to slow again.
Replacement battery might get us another year unless they fix or remove this patch/hack properly.

Just to note also; a battery costs Apple $4.50 cents so most of the extra charge seems to be labour costs and postage.

Source:
https://technology.ihs.com/595738/ihs-markit-teardown-reveals-what-higher-apple-iphone-8-plus-cost-actually-buys

Sad Professor

Does anyone know if iPads are affected by this?

ozmo

Sad Professor wrote: »

Does anyone know if iPads are affected by this?

Best bet would to download Geekbench 4 or CPU DasherX - both occasionally free or €1.

And compare the CPU speed they report with what it’s supposed to be.

Copper_pipe

Am I right in saying that if my phone has been repaired by a 3rd party store previously then Apple won’t replace my battery ?

quarryman

Anyone know what the performance drop % requirement to qualify for a new battery?

Edit: it seems the paid replacement doesn’t have a performance requirement, we just need to be willing to pay for it.

Aquos76

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Am I right in saying that if my phone has been repaired by a 3rd party store previously then Apple won’t replace my battery ?

Why wouldn't they, you are paying for the new battery along with the shipping, albeit at a reduced price. Also your device will be outside the original 12 month warranty period.

Paully D

2 hours and 2 minutes of usage before my battery died today. :eek:

I’m no expert, but after running a CPU Dasher test I’m going to guess that the current frequency I’m getting of 911 MHz while the max frequency is 1850 MHz is not good?

FGR

Paully D wrote: »

2 hours and 2 minutes of usage before my battery died today. :eek:

I’m no expert, but after running a CPU Dasher test I’m going to guess that the current frequency I’m getting of 911 MHz while the max frequency is 1850 MHz is not good?

Two standout signs of the problem. My phone jumped from 600mhz to the max 1400mhz the moment the battery was changed. It's like night and day using my iPhone 6 now.

Paully D

FGR wrote: »

Two standout signs of the problem. My phone jumped from 600mhz to the max 1400mhz the moment the battery was changed. It's like night and day using my iPhone 6 now.

Did you get the battery changed via their recently announced replacement program mate?

FGR

I had it done by a third party before Christmas - before Apple acknowledged the problem. That said it's like a new phone.

RedLegend

Has anyone actually had their battery replaced yet?

What phone? Where and did they just replace the battery or give you a refurbished device?

Bummer1234

RedLegend wrote: »

Has anyone actually had their battery replaced yet?

What phone? Where and did they just replace the battery or give you a refurbished device?

Spoke with Apple Chat and they booked me in compub in swords (Closest to me) and they done a diagnostics test on chat and in the store.

Lady in Compub said it could be 2-3 weeks before they come in.(Hopefully sooner for me)

Apple also referenced Harvey Normans in Nutgrove Dublin or Combu b in Dundrum but im sure others do it.

Getting mine changed on Iphone 6.Also Keeping my own device.

quarryman

Bummer1234 wrote: »

Spoke with Apple Chat and they booked me in compub in swords (Closest to me) and they done a diagnostics test on chat and in the store.

Lady in Compub said it could be 2-3 weeks before they come in.(Hopefully sooner for me)

Apple also referenced Harvey Normans in Nutgrove Dublin or Combu b in Dundrum but im sure others do it.

Getting mine changed on Iphone 6.Also Keeping my own device.

Why did they do a diagnostics test? I thought it was enough if you were just willing to pay for the replacement?