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Killing of Daniel Shaver.

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    #212
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭emo72


    that was dreadful. terrible way to die.


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    #213
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    BattleCorp wrote: »



    Shaver was an idiot. Sticking guns out the window of a hotel, especially after the Las Vegas incident, is a pure mental thing to do.
    Just to point out, this incident occurred on 18 Jan 2016, well before the Las Vegas incident. Of course, the trial occurred after.

    Edit, apologies posted before your edit


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    #214
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Where did you get your information what the investigating officers say?


    all the information you require is in the thread.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #215
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Some police departments allow officers to buy their own - if it's on the approved list

    You can't just buy a weapon and use it, even if it is on an approved list......

    ......you have to qualify on it. Brailsford may well be well familiar with the AR-15 but evidence was offered that he hadn't qualified on it per Section 13 of The Maricopa Sheriff's Dept Firearms Policy....

    All employees authorized to carry service firearms, including backup and off-duty firearms, shall qualify with those firearms, at least annually, in an AZPOST approved course of fire.


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    #216
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Blazer wrote: »
    He got shot because he was a moron who brought a gun into a hotel and let his mate point it out the window.
    He's a travelling pest controller. Where should he have put them?


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    #217
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    the_syco wrote: »
    He's a travelling pest controller. Where should he have put them?

    In the case he carried it in, locked and secure and in the cupboard.
    Instead he got rat arsed and invited strangers back to the bedroom, got undressed (?) got the gun out allowed the strangers to wave it around to the point where other guests relaxing at the pool became so alarmed at the antics that they called the police, who, in turn, were so alarmed that they sent a whole armed team.


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    #218
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    smurgen wrote: »
    Being drunk isn't illegal.Having a gun isn't illegal.Shooting an unarmed person 5 times in the chest is illegal.
    ireland is a utopia compared to the U.S.in my opinion and this video further reinforces that notion for me.

    There are times that shooting an unarmed person 5 times in the chest isn't illegal too.

    The cop had a trial and the jury agreed that he didn't murder Shaver. Therefore what he did was deemed legal.

    Ireland is a utopia compared to the US. We don't have the same kind of sh1te that the cops have to deal with over there so it's not right for us to judge. We don't know the emotions going through a cop when he is faced with potential life or death situations on a daily basis. I'd imagine that we'd all get pretty jittery on the job facing that all the time.


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    #219
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Not sure of this has been mentioned on the thread already, but the cop barking the orders at Shaver stated quite clearly on several occasions that the victim was not to make another mistake, he was warned that if he made a mistake again he would be shot.

    A mistake is a mistake. It's quite different to a refusal to comply or an act of defiance.

    People under stress, frightened or intoxicated are quite prone to making mistakes.

    Shaver was all 3, so his chances of making a mistake was quite high - he ended up paying for it with his life.

    Yes it was a bad idea to take a gun out in a hotel while drinking, the cops quite rightly attended the scene.

    To me though, he could have been incapacitated ( in a non fatal way) quite easily by asking him to remain on the ground motionless while someone restrained him, or asked to walk backwards with his hands held out towards the cops so their was no chance of him pulling a weapon.

    The cop was getting off on the power trip. The etched wording on the gun is all the confirmation I need that he was trigger happy.


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    #220
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There are times that shooting an unarmed person 5 times in the chest isn't illegal too.

    not really.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The cop had a trial and the jury agreed that he didn't murder Shaver. Therefore what he did was deemed legal.

    no, what he did wasn't deemed legal, he was just found not guilty of murder. that doesn't mean what he did was legal, it just means he wasn't guilty of murder.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Ireland is a utopia compared to the US. We don't have the same kind of sh1te that the cops have to deal with over there so it's not right for us to judge. We don't know the emotions going through a cop when he is faced with potential life or death situations on a daily basis. I'd imagine that we'd all get pretty jittery on the job facing that all the time.

    we can very much judge, given that the officers who investigated the case state they believe the officer acted incorrectly in his actions.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #221
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Absolutely horrifying. These videos make me never want to visit america honestly


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    #222
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Rick Shaw wrote: »
    Not sure of this has been mentioned on the thread already, but the cop barking the orders at Shaver stated quite clearly on several occasions that the victim was not to make another mistake, he was warned that if he made a mistake again he would be shot.

    A mistake is a mistake. It's quite different to a refusal to comply or an act of defiance.

    People under stress, frightened or intoxicated are quite prone to making mistakes.

    Shaver was all 3, so his chances of making a mistake was quite high - he ended up paying for it with his life.

    Yes it was a bad idea to take a gun out in a hotel while drinking, the cops quite rightly attended the scene.

    To me though, he could have been incapacitated ( in a non fatal way) quite easily by asking him to remain on the ground motionless while someone restrained him, or asked to walk backwards with his hands held out towards the cops so their was no chance of him pulling a weapon.

    The cop was getting off on the power trip. The etched wording on the gun is all the confirmation I need that he was trigger happy.

    What from that video makes you think the cop that shot him was on a “Power trip”??


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    #223
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    end of the road wrote: »
    not really.

    Yes really. If someone charges at a cop who has a gun pointed at them, what are they supposed to do. Of course they can legally shoot someone attacking them. I know that isn't what happened in this case, but it's an example of where shooting an unarmed person is legal.

    Reaching for something in your waistband when you have been told not to do it by a cop is another time that it is legal for the cop to shoot you. It's called self defence and it's a big thing in America. It's the whole 'I was in fear for my life' thing.

    we can very much judge, given that the officers who investigated the case state they believe the officer acted incorrectly in his actions.

    While the officers who investigated the case believe the officer acted incorrectly, they weren't there, on site and under pressure in that exact scenario. They got to look at things in the cold light of day. They weren't in fear when they were inspecting the incident. The circumstances in which they went to that hotel were totally different to the six cops who went to the hotel knowing that they would be facing a man with a gun.

    Did the cop make a mistake. Possibly. Did he do anything illegal, I don't think so.


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    #224
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    While the officers who investigated the case believe the officer acted incorrectly, they weren't there, on site and under pressure in that exact scenario. They got to look at things in the cold light of day. They weren't in fear when they were inspecting the incident. The circumstances in which they went to that hotel were totally different to the six cops who went to the hotel knowing that they would be facing a man with a gun.

    all irrelevant i'm afraid. the investigating officers would have relevant experience in this field and would know how these incidents work. the evidence corelates to what both the investigating officers said, and what the other cops there did.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Did the cop make a mistake. Possibly. Did he do anything illegal, I don't think so.

    again that is all irrelevant, if he did nothing illegal he would still be serving and there would have been no trial. you don't get tried for making a mistake.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #225
    Don Kiddick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Don Kiddick


    end of the road wrote: »
    all irrelevant i'm afraid. the investigating officers would have relevant experience in this field and would know how these incidents work. the evidence corelates to what both the investigating officers said, and what the other cops there did.



    again that is all irrelevant, if he did nothing illegal he would still be serving and there would have been no trial. you don't get tried for making a mistake.

    You can lose your job for things other than illegality you know


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    #226
    cojomo2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭cojomo2


    Haven't read the whole thread bit assume it's been pointed out that the officer shouting the intructions is not the same officer that pulled the trigger.

    IMO, if anyone is to take some blame here I think its the officer barking the set of ambiguous complex instructions. At one point he says something along the lines of "keep your hands held up, if you fall, you better fall on your face" followed by "crawl towards me" which is pretty confusing. The cop that pulled the trigger was purely focused on Shaver's movements and he did what he was trained to do which is to shoot if the subject appears to be reaching for a weapon. They are trained to shoot before the weapon is in sight which is what happened here.

    I think this could have been avoided if the guy barking the orders had better training/or if better protocols were in place.

    Horrible video and horrible outcome, feel very sad for this guy and his family.


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    #227
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    end of the road wrote: »
    all irrelevant i'm afraid. the investigating officers would have relevant experience in this field and would know how these incidents work. the evidence corelates to what both the investigating officers said, and what the other cops there did.

    It's perfectly relevant. The detectives thought one way. The jury thought another. The jury were the ones who got to make the decision.

    again that is all irrelevant, if he did nothing illegal he would still be serving and there would have been no trial. you don't get tried for making a mistake.

    If I told all of my employers customers that I was sick seeing them and that they should all go fcuk themselves, I could lose my job. What did I do illegal there? If my attendance is sh1te, I could lose my job. Again, nothing illegal there. You don't have to commit a crime to lose your job. The fact that the cop lost his job suggests that he didn't follow procedure, not that he did anything illegal.


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    #228
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It's perfectly relevant. The detectives thought one way. The jury thought another. The jury were the ones who got to make the decision.

    no, the jury didn't get to "make the decisian"
    they only got to make the decisian as to whether he was guilty of the charges brought before the courts. not as to whether he acted as he should have, as that wasn't the question asked. so outside the charges, what the jury think isn't relevant, as they weren't asked any questions outside the relevant charge put before the court.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #229
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    What from that video makes you think the cop that shot him was on a “Power trip”??

    The bit where he showed up with the words "you're fcuked" etched on to his gun. Perhaps the cops felt the same as me considering he was fired for policy violations, of which I think we can assume etching those words was one of the policies he violated.
    cojomo2 wrote: »
    Haven't read the whole thread bit assume it's been pointed out that the officer shouting the intructions is not the same officer that pulled the trigger.

    IMO, if anyone is to take some blame here I think its the officer barking the set of ambiguous complex instructions. At one point he says something along the lines of "keep your hands held up, if you fall, you better fall on your face" followed by "crawl towards me" which is pretty confusing. The cop that pulled the trigger was purely focused on Shaver's movements and he did what he was trained to do which is to shoot if the subject appears to be reaching for a weapon. They are trained to shoot before the weapon is in sight which is what happened here.

    I think this could have been avoided if the guy barking the orders had better training/or if better protocols were in place.

    Horrible video and horrible outcome, feel very sad for this guy and his family.

    Absolutely 100%, but I notice some lads who are thanking you have very recently been on the thread defending these same confusing instructions - questioning the lack of simple intelligence at not being Genius enough to follow them.

    Road to Damascus moment?


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    #230
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Rick Shaw wrote: »
    The bit where he showed up with the words "you're fcuked" etched on to his gun. Perhaps the cops felt the same as me considering he was fired for policy violations, of which I think we can assume etching those words was one of the policies he violated.



    Absolutely 100%, but I notice some lads who are thanking you have very recently been on the thread defending these same confusing instructions - questioning the lack of simple intelligence at not being Genius enough to follow them.

    Road to Damascus moment?

    So there is nothing IN THE VIDEO that shows the cop as being on a power trip.

    And etching something on a gun means you are on a power trip?? That’s some fine armchair psychology right there.


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    #231
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    end of the road wrote: »
    not really.



    no, what he did wasn't deemed legal, he was just found not guilty of murder. that doesn't mean what he did was legal, it just means he wasn't guilty of murder.



    we can very much judge, given that the officers who investigated the case state they believe the officer acted incorrectly in his actions.

    nonsense again from you.

    you haven't a clue what your sprouting on about , as usual


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    #232
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    end of the road wrote: »
    all irrelevant i'm afraid. the investigating officers would have relevant experience in this field and would know how these incidents work. the evidence corelates to what both the investigating officers said, and what the other cops there did.



    again that is all irrelevant, if he did nothing illegal he would still be serving and there would have been no trial. you don't get tried for making a mistake.

    more nonsense . again and again why always with the nonsense postings

    if you dont know what your talking about you shouldn't post


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    #233
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    So there is nothing IN THE VIDEO that shows the cop as being on a power trip.

    From the OP:
    J. Marston wrote: »
    Only saw this now. Absolutely incredible how the cop got away with this.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42277309

    Full video of the incident. Be warned, it's distressing to watch. A terrified, innocent, man being mentally tortured by a fúcking psycho before being shot dead.

    https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

    The same psycho with this etched on his gun...

    9n0SOxQl.jpg

    Not guilty. No wonder people are terrified of cops over there.

    Was kinda hard to watch the video, after seeing the embedded pic - not knowing what kind of mind frame the cop had.

    Maybe you missed the picture, I didn't - and I watched the video afterwards and the scene was set.
    And etching something on a gun means you are on a power trip?? That’s some fine armchair psychology right there.

    In light of how the victim was shot to death - and how he was fired for policy violations, I'm happy enough with my armchair psychology thank you very much.


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    #234
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Rick Shaw wrote: »
    From the OP:



    Was kinda hard to watch the video, after seeing the embedded pic - not knowing what kind of mind frame the cop had.

    Maybe you missed the picture, I didn't - and I watched the video afterwards and the scene was set.


    In light of how the victim was shot to death - and how he was fired for policy violations, I'm happy enough with my armchair psychology thank you very much.

    The guy was shot to death because he reached for his waist.

    “Policy violations” could be anything at all. Could be completely unrelated to his firearm training, could have been something as mundane as not doing his paperwork. Using an unknown to try to push forward your opinion is hilarious.


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    #235
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The guy was shot to death because he reached for his waist.

    “Policy violations” could be anything at all. Could be completely unrelated to his firearm training, could have been something as mundane as not doing his paperwork. Using an unknown to try to push forward your opinion is hilarious.

    Yeah, if only we knew if etching the "you're fcuked" words had any influence on him being sacked......
    Later that month, the Mesa police department, citing several policy violations, including etching profane language into his service rifle, and unsatisfactory performance, fired Brailsford.

    source


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    #236
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    talking utter nonsense as per usual

    really havent a clue do ya
    mynamejeff wrote: »
    again and as per usual you haven't a clue what your talking about are just sprouting twaddle same as always
    mynamejeff wrote: »
    nonsense again from you.

    you haven't a clue what your sprouting on about , as usual
    mynamejeff wrote: »
    more nonsense . again and again why always with the nonsense postings

    if you dont know what your talking about you shouldn't post

    This is getting a bit creepy, maybe you should get some help with your obsession


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    #237
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Rick Shaw wrote: »
    Yeah, if only we knew if etching the "you're fcuked" words had any influence on him being sacked......



    source

    “Several policy violations”


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    #238
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    The US is a strange country. Populated a few centuries ago by the dregs of Europe, the feral citizens we didn't want carted across the Atlantic. This has resulted in a very shallow but soiled gene pool replicating itself. The mental health issues in that country are insane. This cop is a murderer and nothing else.

    That country is a very dangerous place to live.


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    #239
    Chrongen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    gctest50 wrote: »
    He ( Shaver ) invited two acquaintances to his room for drinks.
    There he showed them a scoped rifle

    Hotel guests near the pool notified the front desk that someone was pointing a rifle out a fifth floor window.
    The hotel immediately notified the police.





    He stopped and reached behind him :


    It looked like he was reaching for a gun :

    The parallel universe in which these dopey, insecure and inadequate US cops live...if someone puts their hands in the air the dummies pulls the trigger and claim he was reaching for a light sabre concealed in the light bulb. Fcuking idiots.

    tough job, my bollocks.


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    #240
    Chrongen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Horrendous video.

    There were 6 officers in the hallway, all heavily armed.......there was nothing to stop one going forward to cuff and secure the poor guy while 5 covered him. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the detective who investigated the killing he noted



    Plus, as mentioned, 6 officers present but only one decided to shoot......take from that what you will.


    And the thing is, if you run from the police in the US because this is the likely outcome if you don't run then you are lambasted as a criminal who shouldn't have run.

    "Shouldn't have run from the PO-LEECE."


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    #241
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Chrongen wrote: »
    The parallel universe in which these dopey, insecure and inadequate US cops live...if someone puts their hands in the air the dummies pulls the trigger and claim he was reaching for a light sabre concealed in the light bulb. Fcuking idiots.

    tough job, my bollocks    .





    NSFW : Contains someone getting shot







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