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Killing of Daniel Shaver.

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24567…13

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    #32
    darkdubh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭darkdubh


    corner of hells wrote: »
    How can you tell someone's a psychopath by looking at their eyes ?
    Your eyes are determined genetically.

    2015-01-25_iri_6438614_I1.JPG


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    #33
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    America is a fcuking cesspit of a country.


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    #34
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    super_furry wrote: »
    America is a fcuking cesspit of a country.

    lol


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    #35
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

    Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.


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    #36
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    A drunk man in a hotel bedroom with a powerful rifle is a very very dangerous situation.
    To do that in Texas where there’s zero tolerance of possible threats to public safety is borderline suicidal.
    The cop completely messed up and should not only be sacked but should be prevented from ever owning a gun again, but you have to question the thought processes behind the dead mans actions that day.


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    #37
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    splinter65 wrote: »
    A drunk man in a hotel bedroom with a powerful rifle is a very very dangerous situation.
    To do that in Texas where there’s zero tolerance of possible threats to public safety is borderline suicidal.
    The cop completely messed up and should not only be sacked but should be prevented from ever owning a gun again, but you have to question the thought processes behind the dead mans actions that day.

    What has Texas got to do with this?


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    #38
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

    Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

    Justified? No. Just no.


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    #39
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

    Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

    That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
    I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    That's true enough. Far too many instructions, it devolved into a game of simon says where you get shot if you f*ck up.

    that's a pretty good summary. I understand they wanted to get these people clear of the room so they wouldn't endanger themselves but how he went about it was just plain wrong- totally sober and without a gun pointing at you and most people wouldn't have been able to get everything right.


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    #41
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    What has Texas got to do with this?

    Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
    This is not exactly a little known fact.


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    #42
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
    I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.

    He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. I cannot believe there are people defending this.

    I will ALWAYS try to see the good in a police officer in any country because they have a completely thankless job and I have so much respect for them but this guy deserved a severe prison sentence.


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    #43
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Justified? No. Just no.

    Justified is the wrong word. Sadly, the consequences to your desicions (I’m going to take this powerful rifle to a hotel, set it up on the balcony and get drunk) may be fatal.
    The cop was totally out of his depth, but ultimately the victim was responsible for his own demise.


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    #44
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
    This is not exactly a little known fact.

    But this didn't happen in Texas.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It looks pretty messed up. But he went to trial, there was a 6 week hearing, and a jury acquitted.

    Reasonable doubt is all you have to sew in the minds of the jury and considering the differing views here on this thread after only a few pages, there's no jury in America that would have convicted him.

    The person who died committed idiotic acts beyond belief given the incidents that have occurred in the US recently - but you still hope that law enforcement would be able to deal with that particular situation without loss of life-


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    #46
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. I cannot believe there are people defending this.

    I will ALWAYS try to see the good in a police officer in any country because they have a completely thankless job and I have so much respect for them but this guy deserved a severe prison sentence.

    He immediately crossed his legs on being asked. You are ignoring the fact that he took the rifle to the hotel room and set it up on the balcony while he was drunk.
    He was very dangerous unpredictable and not in control of himself.
    In a state where everyone is armed all of the time, he put himself in mortal danger that day, and sadly he paid the ultimate price.


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    #47
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    But this didn't happen in Texas.

    Sorry yes it happened in Arizona but the victim was a Texas native.


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    #48
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

    Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

    So lets be clear.....

    .....they guy was prone, hands out and legs crossed and the investigating detective (Sipe) said there was no reason that one of the 6 officers present (maybe one of the 3 not armed with AR-15s) could not have advanced and cuffed him.....he also stated that Shaver was being compliant and the technique of having him crawl forward was unusual.

    .....one of the officers present, at the trial, said the movement presented no threat.....

    .....of the six officers present only one chose to fire and then on full auto putting five rounds into him....

    ....but you reckon it was justified?

    Incidentally, if it was justified why did the six officers present omit key details from the statements they gave to the investigators? Not only that - but all of them omitted the same information relating to Shaver's demeanour.....that certainly sounds like the officers on the scene felt like they'd been justified :rolleyes:

    .....you reckon a police force that puts an automatic weapon in the hands of someone barely 2 years out of training and then puts them in as a lead shooter in a potential armed or hostage siutation has no culpability here?


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    #49
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    splinter65 wrote: »
    He immediately crossed his legs on being asked. You are ignoring the fact that he took the rifle to the hotel room and set it up on the balcony while he was drunk.
    He was very dangerous unpredictable and not in control of himself.
    In a state where everyone is armed all of the time, he put himself in mortal danger that day, and sadly he paid the ultimate price.

    If you want to; watch the video again. It took him 3 attempts to get his legs crossed correctly. The hokey cokey they put this poor man through meant that him being shot was inevitable.


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    #50
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
    This is not exactly a little known fact.

    Which would be relevant if this happened in Texas, but it happened in Arizona.....Maricopa County (Phoenix), home of good ol' boy, former Sheriff Joe Arpaio


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    #51
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,358 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    splinter65 wrote: »
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

    Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

    That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
    I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.

    How can you say he has lengthy firearms history with the police along confrontation ? Is there a link somewhere?

    It's also interesting that two months after the death , the police officer was sacked almost as if the authority's were anticipating a conviction.


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    #52
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Which would be relevant if this happened in Texas, but it happened in Arizona.....Maricopa County (Phoenix), home of good ol' boy, former Sheriff Joe Arpaio

    I’ve already corrected that. I’ve said the cops were poor. Deciding to drunkenly set up a rifle on a hotel balcony overlooking a swimming pool may not end well for you in a country with a lot of gun deaths. That’s all.


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    #53
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,358 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    darkdubh wrote: »
    corner of hells wrote: »
    How can you tell someone's a psychopath by looking at their eyes ?
    Your eyes are determined genetically.

    2015-01-25_iri_6438614_I1.JPG

    Ridiculous analogy , is he diagnosed as a sociopath ?


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    #54
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’ve already corrected that. I’ve said the cops were poor. Deciding to drunkenly set up a rifle on a hotel balcony overlooking a swimming pool may not end well for you in a country with a lot of gun deaths. That’s all.

    Set up a rifle?

    Except he didn't - he pointed it momentarily out the window and not in the direction of the pool......the police were called (a reasonable reaction)......they arrived, telephoned the room and told the occupants to come out - the lady first......she came out, then he came out......they didn't storm the room.

    Do you accept the evidence given by the investigating detective that Shaver was being compliant and that it was more than possible for the police to have secure him when he was prone? One other officer present said the gesture was not threatening and the detective also reckoned it was not as threatening as Brailsford suggested.

    Another officer acknowledged that Shaver seem to be confused by all the instructions (he was subsequently found to be four times over the alcohol limit).

    That being the case, how is it possible he was in any way responsible for his own death?


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Set up a rifle?

    Except he didn't - he pointed it momentarily out the window



    That being the case, how is it possible he was in any way responsible for his own death?

    You have just answered your own question. While the cop was grossly incompetent at his job, the seeds of this tragic incident were sown when the man pointed his rifle out the window- a very stupid and reckless act.


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    #56
    SoftMicro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭SoftMicro


    Anyone who thinks this murder was justified or can empathize with the murderer needs their head examined IMO.


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    #57
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. .................

    He was sober n steady enough to be waving a scoped rifle out a window shortly before that


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    #58
    Ralf and Florian
    Site Banned Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭Ralf and Florian


    The cop came across like he itching to shoot him and was just waiting for an excuse. He came across like it was some kind of sick game to him.


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    #59
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,358 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    gctest50 wrote: »
    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. .................

    He was sober n steady enough to be waving a scoped rifle out a window shortly before that

    Four times over alcohol level limit sober too.


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    #60
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    What an absolute clusterfúck of a scenario.
    Both men scared witless, except one was in a position of authority.

    The instruction were a mess, imagine being under that much duress and then being told if you messed up again they'd shoot you. Absolute madness.


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    #61
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You have just answered your own question. While the cop was grossly incompetent at his job, the seeds of this tragic incident were sown when the man pointed his rifle out the window- a very stupid and reckless act.

    I'm not sayng a police response wasn't justified - I'm not even saying they were wrong to go in mob-handed armed with automatic weapons.....all of that was justified.

    .....I'm just pointing out that, per the evidence from the detective, that once he was prone he could have been cuffed.....

    .....even if they didn't want to go forward they could have tasered him while he was on the deck to be sure he was absolutely no threat.....or even set a K-9 on him to get him to stay prone.


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