7 Points in a single pull over

tonyjs007

Hello guys My name is Tony I came in Ireland few months ago and started working recently. I have a Learner permit and an International driving Permit.About 3 weeks ago I got pulled by Garda on my way to home from work for violating traffic signal which was a clear mistake from my side and I accepted it.I was so tired after a week of night duty and could not react to trafic signal properly I know it doesn't make any sense of telling I was tired.The problem is Garda informed me that My International Driving Permit is not valid here once you obtain a learner permit in Ireland which was a shock to me as I was driving without L plates and an accompanying driver.Later he took my Learner permit collected details from me and Informed that you have to follow the L driver rules next time or get a full Licence and will recieve fine and points through post.Later he let me drive to my home .Yesterday I was shocked again when I recieved 3 letters from Garda in a single cover stating 3 offences with total of 7 points(3+2+2) and fine of 220euro(80+80+60).Later when I checked online I found 7 points leads to disqualification for drivers with Learner permit.Is it true that I cannot drive the car anymore?and I never heard of anyone reciveing 7 points at a single time.Is there any way I can request them to reduce atleast 1 point to avoid disqualification as am already completed my Essential Driver Training and booked a date for my full driving licence test next week.Am waiting for some advices please help

George Sunsnow

Disqualification would appear to be 28 days from the date on the letters
You can challenge in court so would need to contact a solicitor

tonyjs007

Thanks George for the reply,but is it worth to make a challenge in Court as I have no valid reasons except make a request to reduce my penalty points because I have not done any serious offences that leads to direct disqualification with 7 points?

Hitman3000

tonyjs007 wrote:

Thanks George for the reply,but is it worth to make a challenge in Court as I have no valid reasons except make a request to reduce my penalty points because I have not done any serious offences that leads to direct disqualification with 7 points?

You are obliged to make yourself aware of the laws regarding driving in Ireland. Sorry to be a smartarse but ignorance is no defence. Unfortunately for you you committed 3 offences and the Garda decided to issue points for all 3 . You could challenge it but I doubt if you would have much success tbh.

StupidLikeAFox

Do you have a full licence from another country and also an IDP? If so, why do you need a learner permit at all? Sounds like you are entitled to drive with those two documents

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/international_driving_permit.html

sdanseo

If you receive multiple fixed penalty notices (FCPNs) in the same incident you only get the points for the single offence with the highest number of points. In this case, you will only get three points, assuming you pay all three and nothing goes to court.

Note - this isn't legal advice, it's published quite clearly on the Garda website: http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?page=1654

Also, if you have a full driving licence in an EU country, you should be entitled to exchange it provided you haven't been driving here for over a year. If you do, you will not need a learner permit and your limit would be 12 points, not 7. Any penalty points you do get will be put onto a virtual file / driver number and applied once you do receive either and Irish Licence or permit.

It sounds like you applied for and have an Irish Learner permit, but one would imagine you don't need this if you're here less than a year and getting one shouldn't waive your right to drive on the original licence issued abroad.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You are obliged to make yourself aware of the laws regarding driving in Ireland. Sorry to be a smartarse but ignorance is no defence. Unfortunately for you you committed 3 offences and the Garda decided to issue points for all 3 . You could challenge it but I doubt if you would have much success tbh.

The guard just keys in the offences to Pulse and the FCPNs issue automatically. No discretion exercised, although it sounds like there could have been from the story told.

tonyjs007

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You are obliged to make yourself aware of the laws regarding driving in Ireland. Sorry to be a smartarse but ignorance is no defence. Unfortunately for you you committed 3 offences and the Garda decided to issue points for all 3 . You could challenge it but I doubt if you would have much success tbh.

I know it is my fault but it is very sad I did not get a second chance to make myself correct as am new to this country and Just started to work here with lots of dreams.I can not go for my job without driving and public transportation takes around 4 hours a day.

Hitman3000

tonyjs007 wrote:

I know it is my fault but it is very sad I did not get a second chance to make myself correct as am new to this country and Just started to work here with lots of dreams.I can not go for my job without driving and public transportation takes around 4 hours a day.

I missed the first part, what country do you hold a full licence from ?

tonyjs007

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Do you have a full licence from another country and also an IDP? If so, why do you need a learner permit at all? Sounds like you are entitled to drive with those two documents

Am from India with 10years of driving experience as am from a non european country my full license and IDP are valid only upto 1 year and so I require to get an Irish License for future.Also I did not get an Insurance quote with my Indian license

sdanseo

tonyjs007 wrote: »

Am from India with 10years of driving experience as am from a non european country my full license and IDP are valid only upto 1 year and so I require to get an Irish License for future.Also I did not get an Insurance quote with my Indian license

India isn't a recognised state for Licence exchange (the list is very short: https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#holders-of-driving-licences-from-other-countries ) so you followed the correct procedure in applying for a learner permit.

Since you have an IDP and are here less than a year though, the question is whether your entitlement to drive on an IDP for the first 12 months trumps your restrictions under the learner permit rules. I'd argue that it does, but unfortunately proving my assumption right would require fighting it in court.

Can't advise you what to do, but in any event, rest assured that you cannot receive more than 3 points if you pay the three fines within 56 days.

Hitman3000

tonyjs007 wrote:

Am from India with 10years of driving experience as am from a non european country my full license and IDP are valid only upto 1 year and so I require to get an Irish License for future.Also I did not get an Insurance quote with my Indian license

Sorry I missed your mention of the IDL. You can drive on the IDL for up to a year if the licence from your country of issue is valid. If your wish to stay in Ireland beyond 12 months you have to apply for an Irish licence in the normal manner theory test, etc. You did commit 3 offences but as pointed out discretion should have been exercised. Challenge it but it may cost you a few hundred euro. Good Luck.

tonyjs007

sdanseo wrote: »

If you receive multiple fixed penalty notices (FCPNs) in the same incident you only get the points for the single offence with the highest number of points. In this case, you will only get three points, assuming you pay all three and nothing goes to court.

Note - this isn't legal advice, it's published quite clearly on the Garda website:

Also, if you have a full driving licence in an EU country, you should be entitled to exchange it provided you haven't been driving here for over a year. If you do, you will not need a learner permit and your limit would be 12 points, not 7. Any penalty points you do get will be put onto a virtual file / driver number and applied once you do receive either and Irish Licence or permit.

It sounds like you applied for and have an Irish Learner permit, but one would imagine you don't need this if you're here less than a year and getting one shouldn't waive your right to drive on the original licence issued abroad.



The guard just keys in the offences to Pulse and the FCPNs issue automatically. No discretion exercised, although it sounds like there could have been from the story told.

Thanks a lot if it is the rule I hope I get only 3 points as it was a single incident occured in same date and time.I hope now I can sleep well today thank God

K.Flyer

Unfortunately it still leaves you with the predicament of not being allowed to drive your car on your own while using a learner permit.
I would suggest you quickly find out if your IDL is valid over the Irish Learner Permit.
If it is not and you get caught again without a qualified passenger then you may have difficulty getting insurance next time.

cantdecide

Haven't read thread but will later as I have to run.

On a single stop with multiple offences, the only points that will be applied will be the ones associated with the offence yielding the largest points. All other offences will be recorded against the driver's record but those points won't be applied.

If it is 3+2+2 - the points applied for the stop will be 3 points.

ESIT: someone else got there first...

tonyjs007

Anyway its a big relief to know that only 3 points gonna add maximum, thanks to this forum and everyone replied,I will update the outcome once I receive the letter regarding the points after payments of FCPN.

Hitman3000

tonyjs007 wrote:

Anyway its a big relief to know that only 3 points gonna add maximum, thanks to this forum and everyone replied,I will update the outcome once I receive the letter regarding the points after payments of FCPN.

Just be aware if you continue to drive unaccompanied on L plates you run the risk of points and possibly having your car seized .

tonyjs007

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Just be aware if you continue to drive unaccompanied on L plates you run the risk of points and possibly having your car seized .

Thanks for ur advice mate..Am off to work untill my full license driving test which is on next thursday so I hope I pass my test on that day.

lawred2

tonyjs007 wrote: »

Am from India with 10years of driving experience as am from a non european country my full license and IDP are valid only upto 1 year and so I require to get an Irish License for future.Also I did not get an Insurance quote with my Indian license

You were driving without insurance?

tonyjs007

lawred2 wrote: »

You were driving without insurance?

I have Insurance but I got insurance with my Learner permit not with my Indian licence

Hitman3000

tonyjs007 wrote: »

Thanks for ur advice mate..Am off to work untill my full license driving test which is on next thursday so I hope I pass my test on that day.

Best of luck with the test. Maybe post an update.

tonyjs007

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Best of luck with the test. Maybe post an update.

Sure..thanks

lawred2

tonyjs007 wrote: »

I have Insurance but I got insurance with my Learner permit not with my Indian licence

Ah ok. Best of luck with the test

Delphinium

Please avoid driving if you are too tired to react to a traffic signal. Next time you may have to worry about the consequences of injuring or killing someone. Hope you get a full license soon.

ohnonotgmail

sdanseo wrote: »

India isn't a recognised state for Licence exchange (the list is very short: https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#holders-of-driving-licences-from-other-countries ) so you followed the correct procedure in applying for a learner permit.

Since you have an IDP and are here less than a year though, the question is whether your entitlement to drive on an IDP for the first 12 months trumps your restrictions under the learner permit rules. I'd argue that it does, but unfortunately proving my assumption right would require fighting it in court.

Can't advise you what to do, but in any event, rest assured that you cannot receive more than 3 points if you pay the three fines within 56 days.

if you have a learner permit and an IDP the learner permit takes precedence

https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#holders-of-driving-licences-from-other-countries

Please Note: Once you obtain an Irish Learner Permit, this will take precedent over your full foreign driving licence and all rules & regulations pertaining to the holder of a learner permit applies / e.g., display of “L”plates, must be accompanied etc.,

tonyjs007

Hurrayyy....I passed my driving test today at Tallaght test centre.....thank u all for ur wishes..... 😀

Mf310

Hi had you to wait long for your test or did you get it quick well done on passing

tonyjs007

Mf310 wrote: »

Hi had you to wait long for your test or did you get it quick well done on passing

Sorry what you mean wait?if u mean 6 months rule, yes I have waited for 6 months but I could have avoid that if I bring License particular from my country unfortunately I was not aware of it when I came to Ireland . And if u mean the waiting at test centre ,No everything was on time and completed my test within 45 minutes after I reached the test centre.

Old Perry

tonyjs007 wrote: »

Sorry what you mean wait?if u mean 6 months rule, yes I have waited for 6 months but I could have avoid that if I bring License particular from my country unfortunately I was not aware of it when I came to Ireland . And if u mean the waiting at test centre ,No everything was on time and completed my test within 45 minutes after I reached the test centre.

Fair play. Now stick up them N plates and try not to get any more points as you're limited to 7 for the 1st two years.

tonyjs007

Thanks for the tips..I will make sure about that

Mf310

tonyjs007 wrote:

Sorry what you mean wait?if u mean 6 months rule, yes I have waited for 6 months but I could have avoid that if I bring License particular from my country unfortunately I was not aware of it when I came to Ireland . And if u mean the waiting at test centre ,No everything was on time and completed my test within 45 minutes after I reached the test centre.

By wait i mean when did you apply for test and when did you get a date to sit the test

tonyjs007

Mf310 wrote: »

tonyjs007 wrote:

Sorry what you mean wait?if u mean 6 months rule, yes I have waited for 6 months but I could have avoid that if I bring License particular from my country unfortunately I was not aware of it when I came to Ireland . And if u mean the waiting at test centre ,No everything was on time and completed my test within 45 minutes after I reached the test centre.

By wait i mean when did you apply for test and when did you get a date to sit the test

Ok. I booked a test date for the next week after online payment, I rang them next day and they told me to choose any date from tomorrow , I choose a date a week later.It looks like plenty of canceled slots are available

Mf310

tonyjs007 wrote:

Ok. I booked a test date for the next week after online payment, I rang them next day and they told me to choose any date from tomorrow , I choose a date a week later.It looks like plenty of canceled slots are available

Would you mind telling me which test centre you did it in as i am waiting 6 months

tonyjs007

Mf310 wrote: »

tonyjs007 wrote:

Ok. I booked a test date for the next week after online payment, I rang them next day and they told me to choose any date from tomorrow , I choose a date a week later.It looks like plenty of canceled slots are available

Would you mind telling me which test centre you did it in as i am waiting 6 months

Tallaght