Snag list / Engineers report before signing contract

Squatman

Good morning all,
Just looking for some advice on closing a house buy. Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home, contracts came the other day, and we are wondering when should we ask for actions to be completed from our engineers report. There isn't much on the list, but probably 5k in total. Should we furnish the estate agent with the engineers report, or findings from the engineers report, and ask what the seller would be willing to sort? or should we furnish the seller with details and ask that all items be sorted?

Thanks guys

jsd1004

Squatman wrote: »

Good morning all,
Just looking for some advice on closing a house buy. Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home, contracts came the other day, and we are wondering when should we ask for actions to be completed from our engineers report. There isn't much on the list, but probably 5k in total. Should we furnish the estate agent with the engineers report, or findings from the engineers report, and ask what the seller would be willing to sort? or should we furnish the seller with details and ask that all items be sorted?

Thanks guys

(If not a new build)I would think that the sale agreed price is exactly that. In an ideal world you should get a survey before agreeing a price. At this stage id say you will be met with a take it or leave it response. Might be worth a try but you risk losing the purchase.

the_pen_turner

what kind of things are on your list

stimpson

Unless there is something serious like subsidence that would mean you would consider walking away, then I would suck it up. With the market the way it is at the moment, they may put it back on the market.

TooObvious

Assuming then that this is not a new house? If not then you will have to suck it up, the engineers report is a list of repairs (those both necessary and desirable) for you to carry out on a house once purchased, the vendor would never expect to be asked to carry out these works.

The engineers report ensures you are going into the purchase with your eyes wide open.

If it's a new house, then certainly i would be expecting the developer selling the property to complete any snags advised off.

sulli

we have gone sale agreed on a second hand house, got the engineers report back which had nothing serious but would require work over the years and got a reduction of 3k on the sale agreed price....better than a kick in the face!:D:D

zl1whqvjs75cdy

jsd1004 wrote: »

(If not a new build)I would think that the sale agreed price is exactly that. In an ideal world you should get a survey before agreeing a price. At this stage id say you will be met with a take it or leave it response. Might be worth a try but you risk losing the purchase.

I have never seen a vendor agree to a survey before sale agreed stage. They have no need to in this market.

Depends how much you want the house op. By asking for money off etc you risk losing it . If it's within the greater Dublin area they may just re list and probably get more today than they did when you went sale agreed. For the sake of 5k I'd suck it up but it entirely depends on your situation. Can you afford the 5k and how fast do you need to be out of your current accommodation?

jsd1004

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I have never seen a vendor agree to a survey before sale agreed stage. They have no need to in this market.

Depends how much you want the house op. By asking for money off etc you risk losing it . If it's within the greater Dublin area they may just re list and probably get more today than they did when you went sale agreed. For the sake of 5k I'd suck it up but it entirely depends on your situation. Can you afford the 5k and how fast do you need to be out of your current accommodation?

Why not? I have sold houses and it would indicate to me a serious buyer and would bring any issues prior to a sale agreed stage. On the buying side if i am viewing a house I will always bring an engineer at viewing stage for an informal look around if I am seriously interested and if something concerns me.

Paddytheman

Once your bid is accepted and deposit paid you are sale agreed, then you should get bank valuation and surveyors report. This lets you know at an early stage if there are any issues, if there are you need to decide what you are willing to accept or what you would ask the vendor to repair before the contracts are provided.

If the vendor is to commit to paying for some works this fee will normally be taken from the asking price so you get the builders in yourself, in turn the risk of any "shoddy work issues" is removed from the vendor.

When the above has been agreed/disagreed you have a final figure and the contracts can be drawn up.

If you already have contracts you have really missed the window for such requests, now this could lead to delays and the vendor may pull out and probably get more as highlighted above.

Again on here is everyones opinion and you really need to weigh up the risk/benefit involved for yourself. A previous purchase fell apart for us when our survey deemed the roof was "not structurally sound" and the vendor had a certificate from his builder stating it was. On our current purchase (vendor signing contracts this week) we dismissed issues amounting to several thousand as we feel its really a home for life.

Best of luck whatever you do....

Gumbo

Without knowing what items are on the list we are all guessing.
If it’s stuff like new boiler, rewire, replumb, insulate the attic etc then it’s a no go. You buy as is.

It’s like buying a second hand car, you know it’s not as safe as newer versions so you retrospectively ask the owner to upgrade items.

Squatman

hi all, thanks for the responses.
I suppose to name a few- windows are leaking, between panes
Roof edge concrete has eroded
boiler has brought down the BER substantially, however, i wouldnt expect that to be replaced, but it is overdue a service.

after that then its only minor stuff.

And for all you dubliners commenting, there are houses selling outside the pale too

Effects

They all sound like issues that are yours to address once you take possession of the house.
When I bought my house I had to dismantle the previous owners hunting dog compound in the garden. It was horrible.

Squatman

Effects wrote: »

They all sound like issues that are yours to address once you take possession of the house.
When I bought my house I had to dismantle the previous owners hunting dog compound in the garden. It was horrible.

no, i disagree, they are all issues that are mine to address when i sign the contract
Anyways, thanks to all for the help so far

stimpson

Squatman wrote: »

hi all, thanks for the responses.
I suppose to name a few- windows are leaking, between panes
Roof edge concrete has eroded
boiler has brought down the BER substantially, however, i wouldnt expect that to be replaced, but it is overdue a service.

after that then its only minor stuff.

And for all you dubliners commenting, there are houses selling outside the pale too

Can't see that costing 5 grand. Double Glazing panes can be replaced. A boiler service is a couple of hundred at the most. And a few roof tiles?

I'm moving at the moment and have similar issues to address, but my offer was based on the fact that I would expect such things would need to be done eventually.

Best of luck with the house.

Squatman

nothing in isolation is espensive, but its probably around 15 different items.
theres 1-2 days work in the roof, the panes can even be resealed, but ideally it would be at the sellers expense, rather than the buyers. I will keep you posted

Effects

Good thing you're buying in a part of the country people don't want to live in!

the_pen_turner

personally I think that any offer would want to be twice the cost of these repairs higher than the house is worth before I as a seller would entertain any expectation on my to upgrade things for a buyer

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

personally I think that any offer would want to be twice the cost of these repairs higher than the house is worth before I as a seller would entertain any expectation on my to upgrade things for a buyer

Or would you risk losing a sale for 300k for a 1-2k? And further risk selling for a.lower pricr in 6 months!

Alkers

If the survey has brought up things which wouldn't be evident to a layman upon viewing the house, they're fair game for renegotiation following the survey in my opinion. To go back to the car analogy, it's like agreeing informally to buy a car for 5k, then having a mechanic looking at it and telling you it needs a part of the suspension replacing and then going back to the seller and reducing your offer by the cost of replacing the part.
You could even submit a copy of the report to the seller to show you're not trying to pull a fast one.
If you're going down this route for minor items you risk the seller simply going to the next bidder.

the_pen_turner

I'm confused by what happens here.
if I was buying a house I would look at , think about it , look again after a few days, make sure I can afford it etc, then get a survey done , get estimates for work to be carried out if needed (major things) then bid , negotiate etc

why are you bidding then trying to lower your bid later

Brego888

Squatman wrote: »

Or would you risk losing a sale for 300k for a 1-2k? And further risk selling for a.lower pricr in 6 months!

I'd ask the same question to you, are you willing to risk losing the house over 1 or 2k? It's a sellers market, there is little risk of prices going any lower in the next 6 months.

dubrov

Just ask for the reduction. They might say no or they might say yes. You can decide then what you want to do.

It is very unlikely the seller will just cancel the sale.

Squatman

Brego888 wrote: »

I'd ask the same question to you, are you willing to risk losing the house over 1 or 2k? It's a sellers market, there is little risk of prices going any lower in the next 6 months.

in short yes. and its not a sellers market everywhere

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I'm confused by what happens here.
if I was buying a house I would look at , think about it , look again after a few days, make sure I can afford it etc, then get a survey done , get estimates for work to be carried out if needed (major things) then bid , negotiate etc

why are you bidding then trying to lower your bid later

Thanks a million for your life story, although it answered a question i didnt ask.so just to be clear, you would pay 400 for a survey for every house you'd be willing to bid on, and waste weeks on quotes (assuming the seller will allow your tradesmen in on the promise of what might be an offer), and then put in a bid, on a house whose selling price may since had offers of an amount greater than you can afford to buy? interesting that you finish by sayin bid, then negotiate- which is exactly the format im following... loon.... FYI, making sure you can afford to buy a house should be the first thing you do.. hope this clears up the confusion for you

Squatman

dubrov wrote: »

Just ask for the reduction. They might say no or they might say yes. You can decide then what you want to do.

It is very unlikely the seller will just cancel the sale.

I dont even necessarily want a reduction, id prefer the snag list to be completed. Thanks Dubrov

Paddytheman

Have to agree with you re; getting surveys completed before having a bid accepted, both money down the drain and showing your eagerness. Could end up costing you much more than the €400.

dubrov

Perfectly normal to go sale agreed at one price and then renegotiate based on surveyors report.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Some quick numbers from personal experience recently. We've viewed 30 + houses in the last 3 months , and have been seriously interested in 4. Survey going rates are around 500 quid. So immediately we would have been down 2k.

Also, in all the houses we were one of at least 3 parties bidding. I don't know why vendors would even entertain the idea of a pre bid survey in these scenarios, particularly when the bidding tended to go way over asking straight off the bat.

the_pen_turner

Squatman wrote: »

Thanks a million for your life story, although it answered a question i didnt ask.so just to be clear, you would pay 400 for a survey for every house you'd be willing to bid on, and waste weeks on quotes (assuming the seller will allow your tradesmen in on the promise of what might be an offer), and then put in a bid, on a house whose selling price may since had offers of an amount greater than you can afford to buy? interesting that you finish by sayin bid, then negotiate- which is exactly the format im following... loon.... FYI, making sure you can afford to buy a house should be the first thing you do.. hope this clears up the confusion for you

the difference here is that I'm a tradesman myself so I would be a lot more clued in that the average buyer. my second visit would be a bit like a survey (obviously not qualified to do that) . so when the survey was done I would be already fairly sure I'm going to make a bid. I would tell the EA that . the survey would be for more in-depth stuff and structural stuff

as for quotes for work. I would be taking pictures and measurements (if no plan available) and list hat work I wanted or needed doing. I would be pricing up most of it myself and getting in plumbers and electricians that I work with daily to quote . most of the quoting would be done on paper rather than in the house. all you would want is a rough idea to work out what the house is worth to me.

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the difference here is that I'm a tradesman myself so I would be a lot more clued in that the average buyer. my second visit would be a bit like a survey (obviously not qualified to do that) . so when the survey was done I would be already fairly sure I'm going to make a bid. I would tell the EA that . the survey would be for more in-depth stuff and structural stuff

as for quotes for work. I would be taking pictures and measurements (if no plan available) and list hat work I wanted or needed doing. I would be pricing up most of it myself and getting in plumbers and electricians that I work with daily to quote . most of the quoting would be done on paper rather than in the house. all you would want is a rough idea to work out what the house is worth to me.

The rest of your post would suggest otherwise

the_pen_turner

In what way

ted1

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Thats not really the question that i asked. Im not expecting anything to be like new. There is ALWAYS something to negotiate, and you would be a fool not to. How and ever, you are entitled to your opinion.
What would you do, if you were buying a house and wanted the best price possible?

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

In what way

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

the_pen_turner

Squatman wrote: »

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

troll you have to be kidding. the irony


I don't see why the buyer has any right to demand (ask all you like but be laughed at) that anything be done that they want. certain things like structural or legal stuff yes but not minor stuff like your talking about

I'm not saying I can do a surveyors job. but any half decent tradesman should be able to see a lot of stuff that the average buyer wouldn't see.
I would see my self competent to see if a roof was in good condition or windows operable or if most aspects of the house look and work correctly. I have worked with serval different trades over the years and studied different areas as well so I feel I know the basics.
I'm not and have no intention of being able to give an official verdict on lots of stuff like structural, electrical or plumbing. but I would be able to look at the quality and workmanship of electrical and plumbing and see if it has been done professionally or bodged. and also if it has been changed several times.

I wonder how you as an expert seemed to miss bits of the roof missing and badly failed window pains and failed to look at the ancient boiler

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Thats not really the question that i asked. Im not expecting anything to be like new. There is ALWAYS something to negotiate, and you would be a fool not to. How and ever, you are entitled to your opinion.
What would you do, if you were buying a house and wanted the best price possible?

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Nothing agreed yet. Have you ever bought a house oh honourable one?

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

troll you have to be kidding. the irony


I don't see why the buyer has any right to demand (ask all you like but be laughed at) that anything be done that they want. certain things like structural or legal stuff yes but not minor stuff like your talking about

I'm not saying I can do a surveyors job. but any half decent tradesman should be able to see a lot of stuff that the average buyer wouldn't see.
I would see my self competent to see if a roof was in good condition or windows operable or if most aspects of the house look and work correctly. I have worked with serval different trades over the years and studied different areas as well so I feel I know the basics.
I'm not and have no intention of being able to give an official verdict on lots of stuff like structural, electrical or plumbing. but I would be able to look at the quality and workmanship of electrical and plumbing and see if it has been done professionally or bodged. and also if it has been changed several times.

I wonder how you as an expert seemed to miss bits of the roof missing and badly failed window pains and failed to look at the ancient boiler

Apologies its my fault for the confusion. I shouldnt have engaged in a game of wits with an unarmed man. Now please stop depriving some poor village of their idiot.

Squatman

Mods can you lock this up please. Got the answer i needed from the minority of informed posters. Thanks guys.

the_pen_turner

Squatman wrote: »

Apologies its my fault for the confusion. I shouldnt have engaged in a game of wits with an unarmed man. Now please stop depriving some poor village of their idiot.

I'm sorry for taking you away from you village

Graham

Mod Note: If you have a problem with a post report it.

If you've asked for opinions, don't expect them all to agree with you. Ignore them, refute them, counter them but stop getting snippy over them.

Effects

Can we have a daft link to the house?

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Nothing agreed yet. Have you ever bought a house oh honourable one?

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

Gumbo

Effects wrote: »

Can we have a daft link to the house?

I don’t think there’s a house

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

nothing is agreed until the contract is signed -- (as youd know from buying your own house):rolleyes:

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

nothing is agreed until the contract is signed -- (as youd know from buying your own house):rolleyes:

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

and I will agree to a price when I sign the contract. Simples.:D

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

and I will agree to a price when I sign the contract. Simples.:D

That’s if you get that far, if I was selling I’d tear up the deposit and sell to someone who doesn’t mess about and renage on agreements

NinjaTruncs

Squatman wrote: »

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

You can ask, but there is no obligation on the seller to fix anything as the house is sold as seen. Unlike with new houses where you buy based on seeing a sample house, you then carry out a snag list which is supposed to highlight any issues or omission from the spec of the show house, interesting for new houses contracts have been signed long before the snag happens so if the developers won't fix something on your have little option but to suck it up as you are contracted to buying.

With a secondhand house usually people carry out a survey to determine any big issues that have developed over the life of the property, if an engineers report has 15 issues listed the house should be falling down, however, in an attempt to deliver value for money and possibly to mitigate being sued they list every little detail to cover themselves.

The survey results should really be used as a go-no-go decision for proceeding with the house, but it's more and more common for people to use them as a tool for trying to justify knocking money off the price they have agreed to pay for the property. I'll agree to a price the seller is happy with and then use the survey to knock 5K off just before the sale goes through and hope the seller is too committed to refuse.

While estate agents don't give a **** about their clients and only want a quick sale, they should really be insisting on a survey to be carried out before the property goes sale agreed and the process gets to the contract stage, as the sellers will incur solicitor fees in doing so.

All you can do it ask, but don't be surprised if the seller is pissed that it's been left so late to try renegotiate.

Edit, and if you are paying top price that means you must have had a co-bidder who the sellers could go back to.

1641

ted1 wrote: »

That’s if you get that far, if I was selling I’d tear up the deposit and sell to someone who doesn’t mess about and renage on agreements

Which is more or less what we did when selling (we returned the deposit rather than tearing it up:)). We were prepared to accept slightly less, rather than continue with the bidder who wanted to "negotiate" further after going "sale agreed". As it happens we did better financially - €5k - and sold to lovely people who were very happy with their deal.

sulli

i don't understand what the issue is? It's a negotiating process...if you don't ask, you don't get! If you ask, all they have to do is say no! In my case, I asked for 5k off and got 3k...worst case scenario they say no and you just get on with it.