2017/18 MVP

spud06

I think its coming to that time of year where we start to discuss who we believe should at least be in the discussion for MVP. Suggestions and reasons for suggestion on a postcard please lol.

HigginsJ

spud06 wrote: »

I think its coming to that time of year where we start to discuss who we believe should at least be in the discussion for MVP. Suggestions and reasons for suggestion on a postcard please lol.

Like it or not the obvious answer is Brady. He will eventually succumb to father time but its hard to see the end in sight.

Wentz has been very good for the Eagles & would likely be the winner now. Wilson would be well worth a shout as well. LeVeon Bell & AB play on the same team which ruins their chances.

A defensive player wont win it but DeMarcus Lawerence for the Cowgirls has been outstanding.

The big fight back I got against jj watt a few years ago was that it's not the best player award but the most valuable of that's the case is go Russel Wilson because that seahawks team would be ****ed with anyone else under centre

Tristram

Wilson has been phenomenal. He is dragging the Seahawks through games they have no right to win.

spud06

Tristram wrote: »

Wilson has been phenomenal. He is dragging the Seahawks through games they have no right to win.

I agree 100% but if the season ended today then i see nobody other than Carson Wentz winning it

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Wentz probably leads at the moment but Antonio Brown & Russell Wilson would be close.

adrian522

To be a pendant, it's the 2017 MVP not the 2017/18 MVP.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Brady for me. Still looks like the best QB in the league.
Not that I’d care if Wentz won it; as per Ryan and Newton, it’s nothing when you end up losing the SB.

Moist Bread

adrian522 wrote: »

To be a pendant, it's the 2017 MVP not the 2017/18 MVP.

Foxtrol

Think you could make a case for Wilson, Brady, or Wentz.

On a pure ‘who improves their team the most’ then it should go to Wilson. He doesn’t just dig the Seahawks out for the odd comeback or drive to win a game but pulls out plays to dig them out of trouble throughout nearly every game (frustrating as that is).

Brady is playing at an incredibly high level, but I think it should be considered that despite winning the Super Bowl last year the Patriots went out and brought in improvements in multiple areas, including Brady’s weapons, in the off-season and were seen as quite likely to go undefeated. Its probably not 'fair' but Brady doesn't score highly on difficulty.

Wentz is probably coming from the other side of that discussion, where he is performing to a very high level but in a team that wasn’t fancied at all coming into the season.

Gregk961

Its Wilson for me anyway, not sure how he has managed to drag that team into Playoff contention but it has been very impressive. The last few weeks will decide a lot, fresh in the memory and all that.

They have him priced at 8-1 on Bet365 which seems awfully generous but they wont take a bet on it 😔.

bruschi

Foxtrol wrote: »

Brady is playing at an incredibly high level, but I think it should be considered that despite winning the Super Bowl last year the Patriots went out and brought in improvements in multiple areas, including Brady’s weapons, in the off-season and were seen as quite likely to go undefeated. Its probably not 'fair' but Brady doesn't score highly on difficulty.

I'm obviously a homer, but still, I'd disagree with the above assessment of the "weapons" brought in. It's pretty much given, that Bradys number 1 receiver is Edelman. Gone for the season. Next WR on the list from last year, Chris Hogan, been out for most of the season. Best young back up last year, Mitchell, gone for the season. Brady has played games this season with no skill set player on the field with him that played last year (Dorsett, Cooks, Gillislee, Allen) and coupled to that Gronkowski and Lewis missed most of last season.

The fact that he has been consistent and has made the transition for either injured players returning, new players coming in and the multiple changes pre game and in game to personnel and has done it so seamlessly, gives the impression that the team has improved as a result. Realistically, it probably hasnt, but he has made it better. Put Edelman back in, Hogan, a fit Gillislee, Mitchell, they all improve it. And as the weeks go on, Allen, Dorsett and in particular Cooks are all contributing after joining off season.

Bradys numbers alone put him as the top ranked QB if you only want to go on metrics.

mrkiscool2

bruschi wrote: »

I'm obviously a homer, but still, I'd disagree with the above assessment of the "weapons" brought in. It's pretty much given, that Bradys number 1 receiver is Edelman. Gone for the season. Next WR on the list from last year, Chris Hogan, been out for most of the season. Best young back up last year, Mitchell, gone for the season. Brady has played games this season with no skill set player on the field with him that played last year (Dorsett, Cooks, Gillislee, Allen) and coupled to that Gronkowski and Lewis missed most of last season.

The fact that he has been consistent and has made the transition for either injured players returning, new players coming in and the multiple changes pre game and in game to personnel and has done it so seamlessly, gives the impression that the team has improved as a result. Realistically, it probably hasnt, but he has made it better. Put Edelman back in, Hogan, a fit Gillislee, Mitchell, they all improve it. And as the weeks go on, Allen, Dorsett and in particular Cooks are all contributing after joining off season.

Bradys numbers alone put him as the top ranked QB if you only want to go on metrics.

Well, not entirely, he is 3rd in QBR in terms of who is left active as a QB this year. Passing yards, yup, he has more of them but when you look at the amount of time he has played compared to the two players with the higher QBR (Ceenum and Wentz) then it actually evens out. Just about ahead in passer rating too.

Like, I think Brady is having a very good year but I think the argument is boiling down to "He's 40!" rather than "He is carrying this team, making plays he shouldn't be making etc." For me, it's between Wilson and Wentz (and Wentz is probably only in the discussion cause I'm an Eagles fan). I think it's Wilson. He has carried this team for so long. Over 80% of their offence goes through him, they are 8-4 when, in all honesty, they should be 6-6. All down to him.

Foxtrol

bruschi wrote: »

I'm obviously a homer, but still, I'd disagree with the above assessment of the "weapons" brought in. It's pretty much given, that Bradys number 1 receiver is Edelman. Gone for the season. Next WR on the list from last year, Chris Hogan, been out for most of the season. Best young back up last year, Mitchell, gone for the season. Brady has played games this season with no skill set player on the field with him that played last year (Dorsett, Cooks, Gillislee, Allen) and coupled to that Gronkowski and Lewis missed most of last season.

The fact that he has been consistent and has made the transition for either injured players returning, new players coming in and the multiple changes pre game and in game to personnel and has done it so seamlessly, gives the impression that the team has improved as a result. Realistically, it probably hasnt, but he has made it better. Put Edelman back in, Hogan, a fit Gillislee, Mitchell, they all improve it. And as the weeks go on, Allen, Dorsett and in particular Cooks are all contributing after joining off season.

Bradys numbers alone put him as the top ranked QB if you only want to go on metrics.

If you want to go down the disruption line of argument then it just emphasizes the case for Wentz. The only starter he had from last season was Ertz (Agholor might as well be a different player) - Jeffrey, Blount, Smith all came in this offseason and Sproles went out early this season.

Add to that his coach is in only his second year with the team compared to a man who has his systems in at the Patriots for nearly two decades.

I know you're trying valiantly to make it appear that Brady has it tough but you have to admit when you're implying that Gronk coming back is somehow a difficulty for Brady you're reaching. You also state that Cooks is only producing as the weeks go on but he had 250 yards and 2 TDs in his first 3 games and is currently on pace for a 1,200 yard season.

At the same time Wilson is in the worst support situation of any of them and still dragging his team through.

bruschi

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you want to go down the disruption line of argument then it just emphasizes the case for Wentz. The only starter he had from last season was Ertz (Agholor might as well be a different player) - Jeffrey, Blount, Smith all came in this offseason and Sproles went out early this season.

Add to that his coach is in only his second year with the team compared to a man who has his systems in at the Patriots for nearly two decades.

I know you're trying valiantly to make it appear that Brady has it tough but you have to admit when you're implying that Gronk coming back is somehow a difficulty for Brady you're reaching. You also state that Cooks is only producing as the weeks go on but he had 250 yards and 2 TDs in his first 3 games and is currently on pace for a 1,200 yard season.

At the same time Wilson is in the worst support situation of any of them and still dragging his team through.

I'm not trying to make it sound like Brady has it tough, I'm saying Brady makes it look easy. I didnt say Cooks was only producing lately, I actually emphasised how Cooks has been producing. The others had been doding very little until lately. And with Gronk, I'm just making the point that this years performers (Gronk and Lewis) werent playing last year in any great numbers, but yet they still won in spite of that.

The other point that the MVP is the one who carries his team is an argument one could make. But I dont see the MVP as the one who carries a team, it should be the MVP of the entire league, not what your team needs you for. Brady is being penalised because he is on a good team.

To put it simply, if the game is on the line with 2 minutes left, and you want a QB to lead your team down and get victory, who do you want at centre, regardless of the WR's or other players with them, who do you think could lead any team they are thrown into to win a game? Again, I'm biased and will say Brady every time.

And I should also say I dont particularly care if Brady gets it or not. He gets overlooked because he is considered the best out there, and at times it seems like an MVP competition without Brady, similar to coach of the year where Belichick, considered the best coach ever has won coach of the year only 3 times ever, only one more than the likes of Bruce Arians, Ron Rivera, Dan Reeves. Its almost expected that himself and Brady are the best so are excluded. I'll take superbowls every day over MVP awards.

MrKingsley

He might be one of my least favorite players in the NFL but Wilson is performing at a ridiculous level considering what he has as support.

The O-Line hasnt improved over the last 2/3 years.

Not even a semblence of a run game this year.

Sherman and Kam out half way through the season.

Regardless of the situation he just scrambles, makes plays and wins games that he has absolutely no right to.

Take him out of the line-up and I see this Seahawks team being 4-8 or potentially worse

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

bruschi wrote: »

To put it simply, if the game is on the line with 2 minutes left, and you want a QB to lead your team down and get victory, who do you want at centre, regardless of the WR's or other players with them, who do you think could lead any team they are thrown into to win a game? Again, I'm biased and will say Brady every time.

This argument is so so so so so flawed. Brady is the best QB of all time but put him in with 2 minutes left and Arizona/Giants/Jets/Texans O line and the Cleveland browns receivers and he would be killed. Put Wilson, Rodgers, Newton in there and they have a chance because they have legs that can move them out of trouble and they can do it done with their legs.

Such a rubbish statement really. Game on the line with 2 mins to go. The WR's , the O Line, the RB, the play caller it all matters. American football is a team game, while Brady is the best conductor out there he has the best players and personnel around him to let him and the TEAM be successful.

As MVP's go Brady is having a great year, again. As expected. Is he having a better year than Wentz or Wilson or Brown or even Case Keenum? No not in my opinion.

Two minutes to go and the Patriots have the ball but are down and need a score, who should be under center. Yes TB and I would bet on him getting it done, EVERY TIME.

bruschi

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

This argument is so so so so so flawed. Brady is the best QB of all time but put him in with 2 minutes left and Arizona/Giants/Jets/Texans O line and the Cleveland browns receivers and he would be killed. Put Wilson, Rodgers, Newton in there and they have a chance because they have legs that can move them out of trouble and they can do it done with their legs.

Such a rubbish statement really. Game on the line with 2 mins to go. The WR's , the O Line, the RB, the play caller it all matters. American football is a team game, while Brady is the best conductor out there he has the best players and personnel around him to let him and the TEAM be successful.

As MVP's go Brady is having a great year, again. As expected. Is he having a better year than Wentz or Wilson or Brown or even Case Keenum? No not in my opinion.

Two minutes to go and the Patriots have the ball but are down and need a score, who should be under center. Yes TB and I would bet on him getting it done, EVERY TIME.

A rubbish statement, yet Brady has the best personnel and players around him? You have seen the Patriots O Line havent you? And there is Cooks this year, what stars are around him on offence that were stars elsewhere? This is the argument that goes around, the chicken and the egg scenario, but is it Brady or the Patriots that makes seemingly average players or draft picks, players who have done nothing before getting to New England, play Pro Bowl level ability?

It's all opinion, I can accept yours. You put emphasis on being able to move out of trouble. A good QB can make up for that with pocket presence and reading defences. Like Brady. Doesnt make it a rubbish statement.

spud06

You know I think its about time in fairness that a defensive player won it. Somebody commented here that jj watt could have won it a few years ago which is very true and there have been others too in recent years like kuechley for example. Surely if a defensive player is head and shoulders above everyone else in the leage including better than qbs then he should win it. Am I right or wrong?????

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

Brady is playing at an incredibly high level, but I think it should be considered that despite winning the Super Bowl last year the Patriots went out and brought in improvements in multiple areas, including Brady’s weapons, in the off-season and were seen as quite likely to go undefeated. Its probably not 'fair' but Brady doesn't score highly on difficulty.

If didn't hurt Ryan last year when he had multiple weapons which wouldn't have scored high on difficulty.

j8wk2feszrnpao

spud06 wrote: »

You know I think its about time in fairness that a defensive player won it. Somebody commented here that jj watt could have won it a few years ago which is very true and there have been others too in recent years like kuechley for example. Surely if a defensive player is head and shoulders above everyone else in the leage including better than qbs then he should win it. Am I right or wrong?????

JJ or Kuechley could have won it, but if it's 'Most Valuable", then no. It's probably always gonna be the QB. Though Von Miller in particular could have been mentioned given the way he played and won the SB with their QB situation

spud06

munstermagic11 wrote: »

JJ or Kuechley could have won it, but if it's 'Most Valuable", then no. It's probably always gonna be the QB. Though Von Miller in particular could have been mentioned given the way he played and won the SB with their QB situation

My point exactly re.Von Miller. Players like miller,jj and kuechley should feel extremely hard done by in my opinion. Maybe they should think of renaming it from MVP to player of the year or having a defensive MVP ans offensive MVP.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

bruschi wrote: »

A rubbish statement, yet Brady has the best personnel and players around him? You have seen the Patriots O Line havent you? And there is Cooks this year, what stars are around him on offence that were stars elsewhere? This is the argument that goes around, the chicken and the egg scenario, but is it Brady or the Patriots that makes seemingly average players or draft picks, players who have done nothing before getting to New England, play Pro Bowl level ability?

It's all opinion, I can accept yours. You put emphasis on being able to move out of trouble. A good QB can make up for that with pocket presence and reading defences. Like Brady. Doesnt make it a rubbish statement.

Look if thats your opinion fine. But in my opinion that statement of Brady with two minutes and any players is complete rubbish, just my opinion mind. Take the worst O line and worst WR's and it doesnt matter how good Brady is he doesnt get up the field IMO. Its not a solo game it's a team game.

I accept your view is tinted by Brady's brilliance and he is that. Simply brilliant. The best QB to ever play the game without doubt. But he wins nothing without the players around him.

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If didn't hurt Ryan last year when he had multiple weapons which wouldn't have scored high on difficulty.

That comparison isn't really valid as:

- Last year I don't think there was the same level of competition like Wentz and Wilson this.

- The Falcons hadn't just won a Super Bowl the previous year and then went out and improved further.

- Most of Ryan's numbers last year were superior than Brady this year.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

That comparison isn't really valid as:

- Last year I don't think there was the same level of competition like Wentz and Wilson this.

- The Falcons hadn't just won a Super Bowl the previous year and then went out and improved further.

- Most of Ryan's numbers last year were superior than Brady this year.

I think it is valid. Pats did get Cooks, but then lost guys as well (Edelman). Ryans numbers last year being better than Brady's this year show just how good his supporting cast was.

Like I said previously, who wins MVP doesn't bother me. If Wentz/Wilson go and win it, good for them.

Foxtrol

bruschi wrote: »

I'm not trying to make it sound like Brady has it tough, I'm saying Brady makes it look easy. I didnt say Cooks was only producing lately, I actually emphasised how Cooks has been producing. The others had been doding very little until lately. And with Gronk, I'm just making the point that this years performers (Gronk and Lewis) werent playing last year in any great numbers, but yet they still won in spite of that.

You prefaced the praise of Cooks with 'And as the weeks go on'. Cooks came out hot from the get go for the Patriots.

Saying Gronk and Lewis weren't available last year would be a reason for him to be MVP last year, not this. Brady has an 8 year and 3 year relationship with both of them so it is hardly a difficult integration for them.

The other point that the MVP is the one who carries his team is an argument one could make. But I dont see the MVP as the one who carries a team, it should be the MVP of the entire league, not what your team needs you for. Brady is being penalised because he is on a good team.

To put it simply, if the game is on the line with 2 minutes left, and you want a QB to lead your team down and get victory, who do you want at centre, regardless of the WR's or other players with them, who do you think could lead any team they are thrown into to win a game? Again, I'm biased and will say Brady every time.

And I should also say I dont particularly care if Brady gets it or not. He gets overlooked because he is considered the best out there, and at times it seems like an MVP competition without Brady, similar to coach of the year where Belichick, considered the best coach ever has won coach of the year only 3 times ever, only one more than the likes of Bruce Arians, Ron Rivera, Dan Reeves. Its almost expected that himself and Brady are the best so are excluded. I'll take superbowls every day over MVP awards.

I disagree that he gets overlooked because he's the best out there (though he very well might be), it is more that he is a cog in an incredibly consistent and well performing machine. I think from most people's perspective when you're looking at a single season it is much more impressive, whether as a QB or a coach, to lead and elevate a team from a losing or middling record to success than to stay there. If you're part of a winning team that added pieces in the off season you really need to dominate and I don't think Brady or the Patriots are doing that to the level.

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I think it is valid. Pats did get Cooks, but then lost guys as well (Edelman). Ryans numbers last year being better than Brady's this year show just how good his supporting cast was.

Like I said previously, who wins MVP doesn't bother me. If Wentz/Wilson go and win it, good for them.

You say it is valid while failing to counter two of the points I made.

If it was all the supporting cast then can you explain Ryan's numbers this year falling dramatically with practically the same group? Part of it is the change in OC but Ryan was consistently playing out of his skin last year compared to anything we've seen from him previously and since.

I don't know why posters pushing for Brady need to clarify how much they don't care about the MVP award. I don't think anyone here is losing sleep over it. Is it a Trump style 'I'll pull out before you say I didn't win'?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

You say it is valid while failing to counter two of the points I made.

If it was all the supporting cast then can you explain Ryan's numbers this year falling dramatically with practically the same group? Part of it is the change in OC but Ryan was consistently playing out of his skin last year compared to anything we've seen from him previously and since.

I don't know why posters pushing for Brady need to clarify how much they don't care about the MVP award. I don't think anyone here is losing sleep over it. Is it a Trump style 'I'll pull out before you say I didn't win'?

Well you relax. I didn’t say it was all down to the cast, no need to make up stuff to try push your agenda.
I’m not pushing for Brady, I said he’d be my pick. Wether you or anyone else disagrees doesn’t bother me. It’s just an opinion.
As for the Trump stuff, if you want to introduce a childish argument, off with you.

Hazys

Its weird that people work so hard to not consider Brady as a top contender for MVP when he's the bookie's favourite to win MVP.

mrkiscool2

Hazys wrote: »

Its weird that people work so hard to not consider Brady as a top contender for MVP when he's the bookie's favourite to win MVP.

He is definitely one of the top 3 in the race. At the minute, I'd have it Wilson-Brady-Wentz. Anyone who thinks there is no argument is just deluded though.

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Well you relax. I didn’t say it was all down to the cast, no need to make up stuff to try push your agenda.
I’m not pushing for Brady, I said he’d be my pick. Wether you or anyone else disagrees doesn’t bother me. It’s just an opinion.
As for the Trump stuff, if you want to introduce a childish argument, off with you.

I can only deal with all of what you posted. You gave Ryan zero credit, you just praised and pointed to his cast.

Hazys wrote: »

Its weird that people work so hard to not consider Brady as a top contender for MVP when he's the bookie's favourite to win MVP.

Who is working hard to not consider Brady as a top contender? Everyone is giving him credit and saying he's in the top 3 for it, some just think others are more deserving of the title.

Paully D

Brady by some distance.

Knex*

Wilson or Brady for me. Wouldn't begrude either, but Brady probably deserves it. Only thing that knocks Brady is that its nothing new, which is mental in itself!

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

I can only deal with all of what you posted. You gave Ryan zero credit, you just praised and pointed to his cast.

Here's what I said in relation to your argument about the players available to Brady and the difficulty for him:

Kira Cool Bucket wrote: »

If didn't hurt Ryan last year when he had multiple weapons which wouldn't have scored high on difficulty.

That is not giving Ryan zero credit (making it up again), just a reference to his supporting cast (which you need in order to hit the numbers).



And by the way, here's what I said last year in the MVP race (my tune hasn't changed in relation to Ryan or the MVP award):

Kira Cool Bucket wrote: »

Anyway, Ryan will probably get it for being constantly good over the course of the season.
MVP is kinda crap anyway. Who cares if you star in the regular season (when you'll get to play against a number of crappy teams) if you don't get it done in the playoffs (when the pressure and quality increases).

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Here's what I said in relation to your argument about the players available to Brady and the difficulty for him:

That is not giving Ryan zero credit (making it up again), just a reference to his supporting cast (which you need in order to hit the numbers).

But when pointed out the fact that Ryan's numbers last year were better than Brady's this year you gave Ryan zero credit:

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ryans numbers last year being better than Brady's this year show just how good his supporting cast was.

This is practically the same supporting cast that has him with much worse numbers this year.

At the same time Brady has arguably a better cast this year than last and his numbers are slightly down.

And by the way, here's what I said last year in the MVP race (my tune hasn't changed in relation to Ryan or the MVP award):

As I pointed out, I dont agree you can make a valid comparison with Ryan last year as it is a different race this year but you're entitled to your opinion.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

But when pointed out the fact that Ryan's numbers last year were better than Brady's this year you gave Ryan zero credit.

I just mentioned his supporting cast, never knocked him or gave him zero credit (again).
You were using Brady's weapons to suggest it was easier for him, and that it lowered the difficultly. I only mentioned that it didn't hurt Ryan last year in the MVP race (which I had no issue with him winning on merit).

And the contraction. You don't agree you I can make a valid comparison with Ryan last year, but then proceed to use Ryan's numbers from last year.

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I just mentioned his supporting cast, never knocked him or gave him zero credit (again).

Please point to where you gave him credit in those posts.

You were using Brady's weapons to suggest it was easier for him, and that it lowered the difficultly. I only mentioned that it didn't hurt Ryan last year in the MVP race (which I had no issue with him winning on merit).

And the contraction. You don't agree you I can make a valid comparison with Ryan last year, but then proceed to use Ryan's numbers from last year.

Falcon's didn't sign any huge names between 2015 and 2016 but Ryan's numbers improved massively. He has the same guys this year and his numbers have dropped back down. If you want to put the performance last year on his supporting cast go ahead but the evidence isn't there that they made a difference.

In contrast this year Brady's cast have improved this year while his numbers have declined. That to me does not make an MVP, especially when you have competition from the likes of Wilson and Wentz that wasn't really there last year.

I think Brady is more likely to win as the Patriots have an easier run in than both (especially Wilson) so it is more likely that one of the others could either have a poor game or be on the losing side which won't look well.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

Please point to where you gave him credit in those posts.

Please point out where I knock him?
You read, and keep reading, something that was not there.

spud06

Firstly I dont like Brady....ok maybe im jealous of him then again maybe not. However having said that, i think he is one of the greatest of all time. Should he win MVP this year???? On current form etc I say NO its gotta be Wilson for reasons already stated. However as usual its probably gonna be one of the QBs who are in the superbowl......And again as I said earlier NOT right in my opinion. Change is needed as in they need to change it from MVP to best player of the year or have an MVP for best defensive player and a seperate one for offensive player.

Gregk961

spud06 wrote: »

However as usual its probably gonna be one of the QBs who are in the superbowl......And again as I said earlier NOT right in my opinion. Change is needed as in they need to change it from MVP to best player of the year or have an MVP for best defensive player and a seperate one for offensive player.

Well the voting is about 1 month before the Superbowl so that has no effect on the result.


And they have defensive player of the year already. JJ Watt would have won an MVP if not for Rodgers having an unbelievable year aswell, I think the right player won it to be honest. In fact I find it hard to argue with most of the recent MVP award winners.

Gregk961

Gregk961 wrote: »

Well the voting is about 1 month before the Superbowl so that has no effect on the result.


And they have defensive player of the year already. JJ Watt would have won an MVP if not for Rodgers having an unbelievable year aswell, I think the right player won it to be honest. In fact I find it hard to argue with most of the recent MVP award winners.

I just hate that it always has to be a qb a best player in the league award would be better jj was all time dominant he should have had one

spud06

Dallas Better Spaciousness wrote: »

I just hate that it always has to be a qb a best player in the league award would be better jj was all time dominant he should have had one

Absolutely without question

Foxtrol

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Please point out where I knock him?
You read, and keep reading, something that was not there.

Where did I say you knocked him?

I said you gave him zero credit and your inability to point to one positive thing you said about him in your posts proves my point.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where did I say you knocked him?

I said you gave him zero credit and your inability to point to one positive thing you said about him in your posts proves my point.

You don’t have a point.
You are poorly attempting to say I gave him no credit as a knock to the guy. As I said last year, he deserved it. Praising his supporting cast isn’t a knock no more than it would be to say the same about Brady.
So move on and grow up.

Realt Dearg Sec

*Enters thread*

Oh boy an MVP thread, I sure hope this turns into an enjoyable discussion of the various great performances this year and not a bunch of pointless bickering about semantics like last ye...

*backs out, closes thread*

Foxtrol

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

*Enters thread*

Oh boy an MVP thread, I sure hope this turns into an enjoyable discussion of the various great performances this year and not a bunch of pointless bickering about semantics like last ye...

*backs out, closes thread*

I'll hold my hands up. Forgot how defensive certain people get when Brady doesn't receive unquestioned praise. It is a bit surprising as they like to state how little they care. Better to just leave them at it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Meh, not worth conversing if stuff is gonna be made up.
Let the thread go back on topic.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'll hold my hands up. Forgot how defensive certain people get when Brady doesn't receive unquestioned praise. It is a bit surprising as they like to state how little they care. Better to just leave them at it.

What the hell are you blabbering on about?

Brady is the GOAT so this award is not important as far as Patriots fans are concerned. A couple of years ago when Manning was getting it regardless of how anybody else did and there was a Manning vs Brady argument to be had then things were a bit touchy with certain fans. That has not been the case for quite a while now.

If you are tying to start it then it's a big fail on your part because nobody gives a hoot.

As regards who should get it, well I'm of the opinion that for the most part a QB has to get it because you see how bad teams with a less than great QB are.

People shout about JJ Watt breaking defensive records but it didn't help his team get close to a Superbowl. If there ever was a year that maybe it should not have been a QB then 2015 was the year but Cam Newton did do very well that season. If I was giving it to a player other than a QB that season it would have been Von Miller. He didn't even get DOY that year, Watt got that, but he played a huge part in a team defense that got to and won a Superbowl with a poor QB. That for me is an impressive achievement.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Antonio Brown, what a performance. Again. Without a doubt my MVP for this season, guy is just ridiculous.

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Brown definitely has a shot.
1509 yards so far with 3 games left (v Pats, @ Texans, v Browns) to get 456 yards to past Johnson's single season record.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Brown definitely has a shot.
1509 yards so far with 3 games left (v Pats, @ Texans, v Browns) to get 456 yards to past Johnson's single season record.

he was 50/1 before this weekend. Ridiculous price