Irish Rail Fine traveling as free travel pass companion.

Jacxel

I was given a fixed payment notice aboard the Cork - Dublin train last week while traveling with my father. My father got the tickets as he has a free travel pass. On board the train when we were asked to produce tickets by the ticket collection officer I was informed that it was not a valid ticket as my fathers free pass only entitled his wife/partner to travel with him free of charge, I have for free traveled with Great Aunt in the past and i did not realise the situation was any different but looking into it since i think i see that I was in the wrong. 

The fine I was given was €100 plus €65.65 for the unpaid fare, I have 2 questions.

Firstly the unpaid fare of €65.65, this seems ludicrously high, looking online at fare prices the only way I can account for it is if I was charged for a first class fare (I was not sitting in first class as far as I'm aware)  and even then it would be about 2 euro less. Is it standard practice for them to bump the amounts, what is the likelihood of me appealing that amount?

Secondly when he informed me my ticket was not valid and explained why I offered to pay the fare and he said that that was selling tickets was "not his job" looking at the FPN he has marked the offence as s.132 details of which are located here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/act/31/section/132/enacted/en/html
section (1)(a) of the above says that the passenger shall pay the officer the fare. Am I missing something here or should I have been given the option to pay him?

Riskymove

Jacxel wrote: »

section (1)(a) of the above says that the passenger shall pay the officer the fare. Am I missing something here or should I have been given the option to pay him?

No you didn't have to be given the option

It appears he had the discretion to only charge you the fare but he didn't

The fixed fare he charged is standard for fines - you can usually get cheaper online or in advance etc.

goingnowhere

Caught and lucky the free travel pass was not retained

65.65 is the standard cash single fare Cork Dublin

The abuse of the free travel scheme is one of the reasons Irish Rail is in such serious financial trouble.

Mulbert

You were correctly fined for misusing a free travel pass, whether intentionality doing so or not. Pass should have been confiscated also.

Jacxel

Mulbert wrote: »

You were correctly fined for misusing a free travel pass, whether intentionality doing so or not. Pass should have been confiscated also.

Yes, the officer informed my father as such when he gave it back to him. He was fairly pleasant in dealing with us as he seemed to realise it was a mistake. I was angry when I read the offence details as I thought it meant we should have been able to pay the fare then but Riskymove has corrected my interpretation.

Hilly Bill

Thread title is misleading as if you was travelling as a companion then you wouldn't have been fined. You was travelling as a spouse or partner hence why you got fined.
There are a few out there that think the travel pass allows them to bring anyone they want with them regardless of the limits of the pass.
A question should be asked though as to how you got the tickets in the first place if the pass didn't cover you.

tabbey

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A question should be asked though as to how you got the tickets in the first place if the pass didn't cover you.

the booking clerk probably did not see the fellow traveller and thought he had a spouse with him.

Riva10

goingnowhere wrote: »

The abuse of the free travel scheme is one of the reasons Irish Rail is in such serious financial trouble.

What a load of bull. The main reason that Irish Rail are in the financial position that the find themselves is the obvious inefficiency of management. :mad:

Jacxel

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A question should be asked though as to how you got the tickets in the first place if the pass didn't cover you.

I was in a taxi running late so my father got the tickets before I arrived. When I tried to pass the gate for boarding the train the ticket was rejected so i went to the counter and got another one, the clerk did not question me but i suppose under different circumstances it would have been valid, it transpired that the gate was broken and was rejecting all tickets so I tried a different one with the new ticket and there was no issue. I had previously booked the seats online at 2.50 a ticket under me and my father's names, I do not know if he mentioned that when he got the tickets.

magicbastarder

Jacxel wrote: »

Am I missing something here or should I have been given the option to pay him?

whatever the actual laws state, i would vote for 'no' on this. otherwise everyone would bunk on the train and only have to pay when a ticket inspector asks for a ticket; there'd be no impetus to buy a valid ticket before boarding.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thread title is misleading as if you was travelling as a companion then you wouldn't have been fined. You was travelling as a spouse or partner hence why you got fined.
There are a few out there that think the travel pass allows them to bring anyone they want with them regardless of the limits of the pass.
A question should be asked though as to how you got the tickets in the first place if the pass didn't cover you.

IE staff pay no attention to pass tickets, some have yet to master that a Flexi ticket is only valid on day of travel not anyway a passenger feels like.

XPS_Zero

goingnowhere wrote: »

Caught and lucky the free travel pass was not retained

65.65 is the standard cash single fare Cork Dublin

The abuse of the free travel scheme is one of the reasons Irish Rail is in such serious financial trouble.

Oh please, IR is in trouble because of incompetence, waste, sloth and inefficiency that has been going on decades, eg the infamous "we need an extra 1b to sort our problems" (gets 1b) "we need an extra 1billion to sort our problems". Now that the paper passes are gone (and they'll all be gone come the new year) FT fraud has almost been eliminated, the only fraud left is things like this ^

A couple of things strike me about this incident:

1. The ticket issuer made a major mistake not checking the actual FT card because it's right there on the card P or S or C they are meant to check which one it is before giving you the ticket

2. It's not a very understandable mistake to make TBH the person you are traveling with is well bloody aware what their card is entitled to and what it's not, I got a nice long leaflet with mine explaining the difference between P S and C, where I could and could not use it, and a link to a website for further detail, so I have to wonder if there was a bit of chancing an arm going on here.

3. Yep, regular Cork fares are that pricey, Belfast would be cheaper ironically even though it's an "international" journey, it's been a source of complaint for many people, a first class ticket would have cost you at least €100

4. As was said above it's very lucky the pass itself was not taken away - in fact it probably should have been, this kind of thing damages support for the scheme and hurts those of us using it for genuine reasons.


The FT companion card is only meant to be for people who for medical reasons cannot travel by themselves, it's not meant to be a "plus one free" deal.

Hilly Bill

tabbey wrote: »

the booking clerk probably did not see the fellow traveller and thought he had a spouse with him.

Should have made sure.

Carawaystick

XPS_Zero wrote: »

1. The ticket issuer made a major mistake not checking the actual FT card because it's right there on the card P or S or C they are meant to check which one it is before giving you the ticket

2. It's not a very understandable mistake to make TBH the person you are traveling with is well bloody aware what their card is entitled to and what it's not

Ypur two points are contradictory. If it is easy for the cardholder to understand what their card entitles, it should be simple for the pro selling tickets to figure out the same.

If the pro selling tickets can make a mistake, the amatuer card holder can make a mistake too.

The only chancing would be asking the professional ticker seller to issue a ticket the card didn't entitle them to.

Losty Dublin

Carawaystick wrote: »

Ypur two points are contradictory. If it is easy for the cardholder to understand what their card entitles, it should be simple for the pro selling tickets to figure out the same.

If the pro selling tickets can make a mistake, the amatuer card holder can make a mistake too.

The only chancing would be asking the professional ticker seller to issue a ticket the card didn't entitle them to.

If the pass bearer asked for tickets for him and his spouse, the seller would be none the wiser. Neither are not obliged to have the spouse present themselves at the time of booking.

Regardless of all this, ones son or daughter is highly unlikely to be their spouse or partner and thus unable to travel for free in this case

Isambard

yes it's not the Clerk's job to police it.

Mrs OBumble

[quote="Losty Dublin;105477466".

Regardless of all this, ones son or daughter is highly unlikely to be their spouse or partner and thus unable to travel for free in this case [/quote]

What does spouse mean - is it just husband or wife? Does partner mean civil partner? Should people have to produce a marriage or CP certificate to buy such a ticket?

Mearings

<<<There are 3 categories of free travel:

If FT-P is written on your Public Services Card, you personally are entitled to free travel.
If FT+S is written on your Public Services Card, your spouse, partner or cohabitant can join you for free when you are travelling (they cannot travel for free alone). Your spouse, partner or cohabitant’s name will not be on the card.
If FT+C is written on your Public Services Card, a companion (over 16) can travel with you for free (because you are unable to travel alone for medical reasons).

Read FAQs on the Public Services Card and free travel (pdf). Note that the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is no longer issuing paper passes.>>>

You can also read 'How to use your public services card for free travel' (pdf)

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/HowToUseYourPublicServicesCardForFreeTravel.pdf

Emme

Trains are full of people at all times of the day freeloading on the Free Travel Pass while commuters who pay thousands of euro for annual tickets have to stand. There should be more restrictions on the Free Travel Pass, it seems to be given out to all and sundry except the fools who work for a living.

I don't begrudge it to elderly people who worked all their lives but they should not be allowed to bring people along with them for a jaunt. If they are infirm and need help let them bring a designated companion with them (spouse, adult child, whoever) but ONLY that designated companion with them.The designated companion should have to carry a pass with their photo on it for ID the way the pass cannot be abused and handed out to freeloaders.

If they are not infirm they should be able to bring a non-working spouse but NOBODY ELSE. Again that person should have ID. If the spouse is in full time employment they should have to pay for a ticket - why should they travel free and a single person or somebody who is the spouse of a non-FTP holder have to pay to travel?

Like somebody else said, widespread availability and abuse of the Free Travel Pass is the reason Irish Rail is in dire straits. No amount of paying (standing :mad: ) passengers can make up for the current level of messing and abuse of the FTP.

Isambard

ah chill, it might be your turn one day and you'll be grateful for it.

punisher5112

Glad to see people getting caught on this fraudulent use.

I'm seeing it a number of times a day and older people are trying it more and more.

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

Trains are full of people at all times of the day freeloading on the Free Travel Pass

i presume you have been able to examine everyone's ticket or pass to come to this conclusion? ah, nope, thought so.

Emme wrote: »

Trains are full of people at all times of the day freeloading on the Free Travel Pass while commuters who pay thousands of euro for annual tickets have to stand.

a ticket only entitles you to travel. it doesn't entitle you to a seat or anything else. you pay thousands of euro to travel on the service.

Emme wrote: »

There should be more restrictions on the Free Travel Pass

restrictions on the pass aren't going to guarantee you a seat. if you want a seat, turn up earlier.

Emme wrote: »

it seems to be given out to all and sundry except the fools who work for a living.

the free travel scheme is not there to support working people. therefore it is correct that those working for a living don't benefit from the scheme, as they are able to support themselves and are able to pay for their travel.

Emme wrote: »

I don't begrudge it to elderly people who worked all their lives but they should not be allowed to bring people along with them for a jaunt.

they effectively aren't.

Emme wrote: »

If they are infirm and need help let them bring a designated companion with them (spouse, adult child, whoever) but ONLY that designated companion with them.The designated companion should have to carry a pass with their photo on it for ID the way the pass cannot be abused and handed out to freeloaders.

not viable, for very obvious reasons.

Emme wrote: »

If they are not infirm they should be able to bring a non-working spouse but NOBODY ELSE. Again that person should have ID. If the spouse is in full time employment they should have to pay for a ticket - why should they travel free and a single person or somebody who is the spouse of a non-FTP holder have to pay to travel?

why should a person who is the spouse of a FTP holder have to pay because the single person or person who is the spouse of a non-ftp holder has to? someone else having to do something because they don't meet the criteria for something is not a good reason for others having to do the same thing, dispite meeting the criteria not to do it.

Emme wrote: »

Like somebody else said, widespread availability and abuse of the Free Travel Pass is the reason Irish Rail is in dire straits.

no it isn't. it's a convenient thing to blame as people like blaming others they see as beneeth them for a problem of the making of the people doing the blaming, or someone completely unrelated. the reason irish rail is in the state it is in is down to irish rail, nobody else.

Emme wrote: »

No amount of paying (standing ) passengers can make up for the current level of messing and abuse of the FTP.

no amount of whining about the free travel scheme is going to get you a seat. if you want a seat, turn up earlier. it's as simple as that.

Isambard

Not forgetting the level of service enjoyed would be cut back drastically if it wasn't for the cash injection into IE made to pay for the "freeloaders" (of which I'm one)

Jamie2k9

Isambard wrote: »

Not forgetting the level of service enjoyed would be cut back drastically if it wasn't for the cash injection into IE made to pay for the "freeloaders" (of which I'm one)

Why would the freeloaders not travel with no pass??

The J Stands for Jay

end of the road wrote: »

no amount of whining about the free travel scheme is going to get you a seat. if you want a seat, turn up earlier. it's as simple as that.

*Turns up 10 minutes earlier. Ends up waiting 10 extra minutes in the cold for a train that has all the seats taken by greyhairs.*

end of the road

McGaggs wrote: »

*Turns up 10 minutes earlier. Ends up waiting 10 extra minutes in the cold for a train that has all the seats taken by greyhairs.*

the service isn't just for you or me i'm afraid.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Isambard wrote: »

Not forgetting the level of service enjoyed would be cut back drastically if it wasn't for the cash injection into IE made to pay for the "freeloaders" (of which I'm one)

I think everyone can agree that one of two things are the case.

One the government doesn't pay enough for the free travel pass for the amount of use it gets

Two Too many people use the free travel pass for too many journeys for the amount that the government pay

While it sounds like the same thing the difference whether you believe that the free travel pass should be limited or whether you believe that the government should pay more.

I believe the former. Not sure how I would do it though. Probably limit long distance trips to 4 (2 return)a week with some sort of tag on tag off system. My other option would be to introduce a nominal fee (50 cent foe commuter journeys and €5 for long distance journeys) to reduce non neccessary use.

punisher5112

Honest question to those on free travel whether its for medical or old age /pensioners....


Why do so many get aggressive or upset if one is asked to either show or present their card or pass.

Isambard

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think everyone can agree that one of two things are the case.

One the government doesn't pay enough for the free travel pass for the amount of use it gets

Two Too many people use the free travel pass for too many journeys for the amount that the government pay

While it sounds like the same thing the difference whether you believe that the free travel pass should be limited or whether you believe that the government should pay more.

I believe the former. Not sure how I would do it though. Probably limit long distance trips to 4 (2 return)a week with some sort of tag on tag off system. My other option would be to introduce a nominal fee (50 cent foe commuter journeys and €5 for long distance journeys) to reduce non neccessary use.

slash the usage by 50% would presumably result in the payment made by Govt being slashed by 50% and services reduced. It's not credible that you could slash usage and keep the payment the same.

end of the road

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think everyone can agree that one of two things are the case.

One the government doesn't pay enough for the free travel pass for the amount of use it gets

Two Too many people use the free travel pass for too many journeys for the amount that the government pay

While it sounds like the same thing the difference whether you believe that the free travel pass should be limited or whether you believe that the government should pay more.

I believe the former. Not sure how I would do it though. Probably limit long distance trips to 4 (2 return)a week with some sort of tag on tag off system. My other option would be to introduce a nominal fee (50 cent foe commuter journeys and €5 for long distance journeys) to reduce non neccessary use.

a 50 cent fee would be a waste of everyone's time including ticket staff. + it wouldn't reduce unnecessary journeys as unnecessary journeys aren't really taken anyway. realistically if someone is traveling it's because they need to.

Gatling

punisher5112 wrote: »

Honest question to those on free travel whether its for medical or old age /pensioners....


Why do so many get aggressive or upset if one is asked to either show or present their card or pass.

Never seen anyone get aggressive over been asked to show one unless they hadn't got one in the first place

Emme

McGaggs wrote: »

*Turns up 10 minutes earlier. Ends up waiting 10 extra minutes in the cold for a train that has all the seats taken by greyhairs.*

To be fair the FTP isn't just greyhairs. Many of us who commute to work by train have grey hair from the stress of it.

I always turn up on time in the mornings but there are so many people on the platform there is a scrum for seats when the train turns up. It is not as easy to get out of work in the evenings to be early for my train.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Isambard wrote: »

slash the usage by 50% would presumably result in the payment made by Govt being slashed by 50% and services reduced. It's not credible that you could slash usage and keep the payment the same.

Well my opinion is that the government payment isn't sufficient for the level of use.

It should be increased per use. This should be done by keeping the payment the same and cutting the level of use.

end of the road wrote: »

a 50 cent fee would be a waste of everyone's time including ticket staff. + it wouldn't reduce unnecessary journeys as unnecessary journeys aren't really taken anyway. realistically if someone is traveling it's because they need to.

Why would it waste anyone's time. At the moment you have to get a ticket. Why not pay for it in some way.

As to unnecessary journeys well that's a matter of opinion but unless there's a medical reason no one should be taking free travel Dublin to Galway return multiple times a week. Thats all i will say on the topic.

Isambard

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well my opinion is that the government payment isn't sufficient for the level of use.

It should be increased per use. This should be done by keeping the payment the same and cutting the level of use.



.

the problem then is some services wouldn't be viable as they'd have too few passengers and the logical result is they'd be cut out, reducing the overall usefulness of Railways, a downward spiral...

punisher5112

Gatling wrote: »

Never seen anyone get aggressive over been asked to show one unless they hadn't got one in the first place

Well I have and even to the point where the name calling and even threats are thrown towards myself.

This includes pensioners who obviously don't like been told how to do things.

Sarahsiddons

Amazing can book seats and arrive to station by taxi but cant buy a train ticket. Pure abuse of travel pass . In my area its thousands per annum for train ticket and have to stand most evenings .

Isambard

Well if they've paid their PRSI all their lives, maybe they are entitled. Alternatively if they have a problem medically, maybe they are entitled on those grounds.

end of the road

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well my opinion is that the government payment isn't sufficient for the level of use.

It should be increased per use. This should be done by keeping the payment the same and cutting the level of use.

can't be done. if the payment is to stay the same then it can't be increased. a reduction in usage would have to mean the payment being cut as less are using the scheme. you can't keep the payment the same and cut usage. cutting usage also equals less services which makes public transport less attractive and less viable, increasing car usage and ultimately our carbon emissions fines, which we are on the way to receiving.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Why would it waste anyone's time. At the moment you have to get a ticket. Why not pay for it in some way.

because it's a free travel scheme. if you want users to pay, then you want abolition of the free travel scheme. it's quicker to issue a ticket then to take a pointless 50c payment meaning time is wasted.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

As to unnecessary journeys well that's a matter of opinion but unless there's a medical reason no one should be taking free travel Dublin to Galway return multiple times a week. Thats all i will say on the topic.

there is no actual opinion to be had really on the matter of "unnecessary" journeys. if people are traveling then it is necessary for them. people will use the service when they wish, that's what public transport is there for. we don't get to decide whether the reasons for someone on free travel using a service are legitimate or not. it's not our concern.
like i said to another poster, your issue with the free travel scheme is about you not being able to get a seat. it's as obvious as the day is long. the reality ultimately is, one is not entitled to a seat on public transport, just to travel/use the service.

Sarahsiddons wrote: »

Amazing can book seats and arrive to station by taxi but cant buy a train ticket. Pure abuse of travel pass . In my area its thousands per annum for train ticket and have to stand most evenings .

anyone can book seats. that facility is open to all. standing is a fact of life on urban rail systems. not so much on long distance services but that is due to lack of carriges because there was a wish to follow the old style uk model of short trains rather then long (a model the uk is mostly moving away from slowly but surely)

Emme

Isambard wrote: »

Well if they've paid their PRSI all their lives, maybe they are entitled. Alternatively if they have a problem medically, maybe they are entitled on those grounds.

I have no problem with those who have paid PRSI all their lives getting a free travel pass. However PRSI doesn't entitle you to everything I pay PRSI but my level of PRSI does not cover dental or optical benefit. I have to pay full whack for that.

The PRSI argument isn't fair because there are women who worked in the home all their lives and didn't pay PRSI. If these women are over 65 and living in poor circumstances they, above anybody else, are entitled to free travel as opposed to wealthy retired professionals.

To the person who said that buying a ticket doesn't automatically entitle you to a seat this is very insulting to those who pay Irish Rail thousands a year for an annual travel pass. It is not fair to pay 3K, 4K or more for an annual travel pass and have to stand all the way to and from work. I suppose if these people stand for long enough they will develop health problems that might entitle them to travel for free when they are no longer able to work. This is how things work in Ireland. Penalise those who are working so those who milk the system can benefit even more.

I have seen pensioners arrive to the train station in taxis. Some of them are laden down with bags from expensive stores that most working commuters could not afford. Surely these people can afford a train ticket or could pay half-price for a train ticket.

People who have medical problems that necessitates regular travel on public transport to hospitals or clinics should be entitled to a free or reduced travel pass depending on their means.

Isambard

make your mind up, no problem with PRSI payers and you champion homemakers over 65 (who'd be entitled anyway) and slag off pensioners for bringing the messages.

Your arguments are tainted by your belief that you as a commuter are entitle dto a seat over the people who paid in all their lives and without who there would be no train for you to ride.#

me me me

BowWow

Emme wrote: »

I have seen pensioners arrive to the train station in taxis. Some of them are laden down with bags from expensive stores that most working commuters could not afford. Surely these people can afford a train ticket or could pay half-price for a train ticket.

Couldn't agree more - I use trains and Bus Eireann a lot. Always amazes me the number of OAP's with airplane luggage on the way to the airport whilst using their "Free" travel pass...

Emme

Isambard wrote: »

make your mind up, no problem with PRSI payers and you champion homemakers over 65 (who'd be entitled anyway) and slag off pensioners for bringing the messages.

Your arguments are tainted by your belief that you as a commuter are entitle dto a seat over the people who paid in all their lives and without who there would be no train for you to ride.#

me me me

Good luck to them if they bring the messages in bags from Brown Thomas and other designer stores.

My arguments are tainted by commuting more than an hour each way by train for years and paying handsomely for the privilege (but I don't have the privilege of a seat, it seems). My health suffered at one stage and I was forced to stay off work for a few months. It is not unreasonable to expect a certain level of comfort if I pay 4K a year to travel by train.

The problem is not the pensioners but Irish Rail who do not provide enough accommodation for train travellers. I cannot see the logic in people who pay nothing to travel supporting the running of Irish Rail. There are 6 trains on my line which serve people commuting to work - 3 in the morning and 3 in the evening. I would be surprised if the contribution from paying commuters did not enable those trains to break even at the very least.

I have also observed some free travel pass holders seem to have a sense of entitlement and are often fitter and healthier than exhausted commuters. When many of us retire we will not be as fit and healthy as some of those who are using the free travel pass now - some of these retired at 60. We have to work longer hours and will have to work more years than they did and when we retire at 70 the funds may not be there for us to take up the free travel pass.

Sarahsiddons

Isambard wrote: »

make your mind up, no problem with PRSI payers and you champion homemakers over 65 (who'd be entitled anyway) and slag off pensioners for bringing the messages.

Your arguments are tainted by your belief that you as a commuter are entitle dto a seat over the people who paid in all their lives and without who there would be no train for you to ride.#

me me me

There are plenty of people who never worked a day in their lives who have travel passes and these are young people who use public transport on a daily basis for socialising. I do think commuters who pay thousands per annum for tickets should have a seat i dont see anything unrealiastic in wanting a seat .

Isambard

Sarahsiddons wrote: »

There are plenty of people who never worked a day in their lives who have travel passes and these are young people who use public transport on a daily basis for socialising. I do think commuters who pay thousands per annum for tickets should have a seat i dont see anything unrealiastic in wanting a seat .

the only young people with cards would have them on medical grounds.

Mulbert

Paying PRSI is irrelevant as to ones entitlement to the free travel scheme, in fact you need never had lived in the state before moving here and will be entitled to it, after the age of 66.

I think it very strange, that its acceptable for medical card holders be charged for collecting medicine but god forbid customers using a transport company's services be asked to contribute toward it!

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

To the person who said that buying a ticket doesn't automatically entitle you to a seat this is very insulting to those who pay Irish Rail thousands a year for an annual travel pass. It is not fair to pay 3K, 4K or more for an annual travel pass and have to stand all the way to and from work. I suppose if these people stand for long enough they will develop health problems that might entitle them to travel for free when they are no longer able to work. This is how things work in Ireland. Penalise those who are working so those who milk the system can benefit even more.

I have seen pensioners arrive to the train station in taxis. Some of them are laden down with bags from expensive stores that most working commuters could not afford. Surely these people can afford a train ticket or could pay half-price for a train ticket.

People who have medical problems that necessitates regular travel on public transport to hospitals or clinics should be entitled to a free or reduced travel pass depending on their means.

it's not insulting. it is an actual fact that you are not automatically entitled to a seat for having a ticket, you are only entitled to board and travel on the service. it is very reasonable that if there are people there before you that they get a seat before you. the service is first come first served, and if you are not there early and have to stand, that's very fair as you weren't there first to avail of a seat.
working people are not being penalised by the company not being able to guarantee them a seat on services.
people coming in taxis with bags who may be able to afford the train ticket means nothing to you as they may still arrive before you and get a seat, so what do you do then?
paying half price for free travel (meaning free travel is no longer for those people) will have no effect in terms of you getting a seat, as if enough of those users move elsewhere the service could go anyway.
i'm sorry but you have no argument here. i understand you are annoyed you can't get a seat but i'm afraid changes to the free travel aren't going to change the reality that people will have to stand unless extra carriges are put on which they should be.

Sarahsiddons wrote: »

There are plenty of people who never worked a day in their lives who have travel passes and these are young people who use public transport on a daily basis for socialising. I do think commuters who pay thousands per annum for tickets should have a seat i dont see anything unrealiastic in wanting a seat .

it's not always viable to guarantee a seat. hence the company cannot and does not guarantee anyone a seat.

Mulbert wrote: »

god forbid customers using a transport company's services be asked to contribute toward it!

the free travel scheme is for free travel. you want the free travel scheme abolished, or you want the groups able to avail of it to be narrowed. fine, but it's a different argument to the one here, which is people wanting those on free travel to be made to pay because they can't get a seat. that's not an argument, and even if the free travel users pay, what happens if those people still can't get a seat.

ebbsy

goingnowhere wrote: »

Caught and lucky the free travel pass was not retained

65.65 is the standard cash single fare Cork Dublin

The abuse of the free travel scheme is one of the reasons Irish Rail is in such serious financial trouble.

Correct. Look at the boyos getting onto Dublin bus every day as well.

Hilly Bill

Sarahsiddons wrote: »

There are plenty of people who never worked a day in their lives who have travel passes and these are young people who use public transport on a daily basis for socialising. I do think commuters who pay thousands per annum for tickets should have a seat i dont see anything unrealiastic in wanting a seat .

Everyone wants a seat but it's first come first served unless you pre booked . The annual ticket just gives you a discounted rate for travel, it doesn't give you priority.

Emme

end of the road wrote: »

ieven if the free travel users pay, what happens if those people still can't get a seat.

Irish Rail will have to take responsibility for the fact that it does not provide adequate accommodation for people to travel. It is not safe to crush load trains with people standing in the space between carriages, in the toilets and along the aisles between seats. Even when trains are crush loaded like this Irish Rail still tries to get the last pound of flesh by sending a food trolley down the train. When this happens standees have to move in on top of people in seats to let the food trolley pass.

I don't know what the solution is. Ask wealthy free travel pass holders to pay towards their travel or limit the free travel pass to those who were born in the country and/or contributed to the system through PRSI.

If people are sick enough to need a free travel pass they would not be able to use it every day for socialising so maybe that needs to be checked up on.

One would think that Irish Rail benefits by the government handing out free travel passes to all and sundry while the working fools pay for the privilege of standing before and after a hard days work! :mad:

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Everyone wants a seat but it's first come first served unless you pre booked . The annual ticket just gives you a discounted rate for travel, it doesn't give you priority.

The discount is related to the tax the working annual ticket holder pays. If the tax related discount were not available far fewer workers would pay to travel on Irish Rail. It is expensive enough even with Taxsaver and people are opting to carpool or take the bus.

Do people have to pay extra if they book a seat? I notice a lot of seats are booked now but people don't always take up booked seats.

Hilly Bill

Sarahsiddons wrote: »

Amazing can book seats and arrive to station by taxi but cant buy a train ticket. Pure abuse of travel pass . In my area its thousands per annum for train ticket and have to stand most evenings .

How is it abuse if they are the legal holders of the pass?

Tenigate

Hi Op, How much was the regular fare? Is this the first time you made this mistake or how many times have you travelled as his travel companion?