Altered Carbon [Netflix]

Mr E

Due some time in 2018, this teaser was released yesterday on Twitter. Costed $6m-$7m per episode, so it'll look fantastic at the very least.

https://twitter.com/AltCarb/status/936295006293213185

From Gizmodo:

Altered Carbon, a 10-episode series based on the bestselling novel by Richard K. Morgan, takes place in a future where the human consciousness has been digitized. Bodies, now known as “sleeves,” are interchangeable. This creates a caste system where the wealthy can stay physically young forever through a series of discarded bodies and clones, becoming living gods who literally live above the rest of humanity in glorious high-rises.

As pointed out in the teaser, Psychasec provides young bodies for people to use and throw out as they see fit. These ones, likely clones, are equipped with pheromones to make you irresistible to others. It’s also worth pointing out that the teaser includes the briefest shot of a URL, which leads to Last Envoy, the Reddit user who posted the first images we reported on earlier this week. It looks to be part of an ongoing viral campaign for the upcoming series but we’ve reached out to Netflix for confirmation.

The series follows a former soldier (played by The Killing and Suicide Squad star Joel Kinnaman) whose consciousness is placed into a police officer’s body so he can investigate the murder of a wealthy person’s clone, opening a rabbit hole into a major conspiracy. The series, written and produced by Avatar co-writer Laeta Kalogridis, is said to cost at $6 to $7 million per episode and will debut sometime in 2018.

Thargor

Sounds good, I got excited for a second when I saw Richard Morgans name and thought maybe they'd made a series of that one where companies settle disputes by having their executives fight it out in road duels in modified cars but that was Market Forces not Altered Carbon

Unearthly

Sounds like it could be very good.

pixelburp

Full trailer, and release date (Feb 2 2018, so not long to way!) has been released: honestly I had never heard of the books, but this looks very high budget; I'd well believe that above figure of 6-7 million per episode.

Plenty of dramatic potential from what reads like a dark, class-heavy dystopia, but part of me wishes they'd spend these high figures on something optimistic and humane (something like Long Way to a Small Angry Planet for instance )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM7Eob4YFDQ

Slydice

Agent Coulson

Just seeing James Purefoy is in it I'm sold.

JP Liz V1

A tad bit of a Total Recall Blade Runner vibe , Morgan a Philip K. Dick fan?

Nody

pixelburp wrote: »

Full trailer, and release date (Feb 2 2018, so not long to way!) has been released: honestly I had never heard of the books, but this looks very high budget; I'd well believe that above figure of 6-7 million per episode.

Plenty of dramatic potential from what reads like a dark, class-heavy dystopia, but part of me wishes they'd spend these high figures on something optimistic and humane (something like Long Way to a Small Angry Planet for instance

Strongly recommend the book series; if you think that shows dark dystopia the books go waaay further. It's a mix of "what happens if companies run the world" with cynical world view of life being valueless since you can always be forced into another body to keep working off your debt with a mix of cyber torture (since minds can be transferred you can be captured in a virtual torture room and be forced to live through torture over and over again such as being as the feeling of being a girl being raped, have toe nails pulled, body parts torched off etc. and no way to stop it at a speed up rate to reality on top of it all to ensure you break quickly enough).

Later books go a tad more towards politics etc. but yea; grim world is a understatement. It makes the Alien 3 prison ship look like a holiday resort by comparison.

Slydice

Not quite a trailer but contains some footage and also a bit more explanation of the story:

corkie

Netflix's new murder mystery has a strong and promising Game of Thrones connection

This will be essential TV.

Given the fact that Game of Thrones is a pop-culture phenomenon, it's standard practice that every little piece of casting and production news is reported. On that note, Thrones fans were absolutely delighted to hear that Miguel Sapochnik was returning to direct two episodes in the final season.

In case you're not familiar with his work, he's the man responsible for Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter - three episodes that are widely regarded as the finest episodes in TV history.

Well, murder mystery fans will be hoping that Sapochnik's wonderful ability to balance jaw-dropping visuals, adrenaline-pumping action and epic narrative will continue when he kicks-off Netflix's new murder mystery, Altered Carbon.

Slydice

Nody

Slydice wrote: »

Not quite a trailer but contains some footage and also a bit more explanation of the story:

They appear to have changed the book story here but I'll need to see more to clarify it; that or they are bringing forth stuff from the forth book possibly.

The book back story is that he's a specialist military trained to jack in to various bodies and function who left the military to become a professional thief instead with his captain simply because it paid better (sentenced to a couple of hundred years on ice when caught). Worth adding due to the specialist training he (and his fellow soldiers) were banned from pretty much any role in civil life involving leadership or civil authority power due to being so good at manipulating people (basically they are trained to perfect psychopaths who have full control over their body and can read other people's emotions) which is ensured by a galactic arm of the military.

pixelburp

Just a reminder that this will be popping up on Netflix on Feb 2 (ie, tomorrow).

Early reviews seem cautiously positive, noting that it's very graphic with its violence and sex. Possibly not one to recommend ones mum then.

Slydice

but

but

my weekend...

*whimper*

pixelburp

Slydice wrote: »

but

but

my weekend...

*whimper*

You could always ... wait now... not, binge?

Nody

Well first point halfway through episode 1 they have played around with Takeshi's history; esp. what happened earlier is wrong on multiple levels but I'll watch through it and see how big of an difference there is to the books (I've read all to date).

Ok this may sound odd to anyone who's not read the book but they have failed to capture the proper darkness & cynicism of the world and it's people; it plays more like they tried to place the story in the 60s Hollywood.

Slydice

First episode. Special Effects... computer wise.. are top notch for a TV series.

The Universe is cool enough. Feels a bit of a mix of blade runner, avatar, AI.

Story is ok but doesn't have a major hook.

Some of the acting / practical effects / makeup feels a bit weak.

Nody

Favourite quote so far "Go fist yourself" to a journalist looking for a quote.

Ok, done for today with finishing episode 5. So far it's ok but not as well done as the book imo. It simply lacks some of the proper flare and cynicism from the book but the divergence in the 5th episode to the book was simply not required if they had planned it better and would have helped with developing a certain character as well.

opus

Reread the first book in preparation for this, must resist watching it all over the weekend

Frank O. Pinion

Another case of "well made, bad TV" from Netflix, like Ozark and Gypsy.

J. Marston

Watched the first two episodes, really liking it so far. The setting and look of everything is futuristic porn, just brilliant.

One criticism is the hothead Latina detective is a bit full-on.

Unearthly

The acting is letting it down. Main guy has zero charisma.

Nody

Really getting annoyed about the episode 5 change to storyline and how it plays out in episode 6 so far; it cheapens the main character and the overall story and don't even get me started on the episode 6 ending...

Slydice

2 minutes into episode 3 and The Patchwork Man :eek: :eek:

Nody

Episode 7 has gone completely off the rails with the book(s)... You can draw some parallels with the last book (Woken Furies) but they are stretched way beyond the book story to make it fit. And that they merged two book characters and changed their relationships completely is really really pissing me off because those two were among the best once in the book. Also why change something so basic as the sex of a side character (Liz mother) from female to male? Sticking to the book version of it would have worked just as well.

Episode 8 main fight; so many things wrong with it (beyond the fact it's not in the book)...

Why did she not multisleeve? Where is her combat implants in the sleeve? Why would anyone be allowed to walk in there? etc.

Will finish the last two episodes tomorrow but I'm very annoyed in the direction they took the TV series for no real good reason when the book had a much better plot.

the whole year inn

Don't know anything about the book,found the start a bit hard to get into to but once I got the premise I really enjoyed it.I'll watch the season.

shamrock55

Just going by the trailer,why would you bother hiring someone to solve your murder when you can just get a new body and carry on,I haven't seen any of it btw just the trailer

Johnny Storm

shamrock55 wrote: »

Just going by the trailer,why would you bother hiring someone to solve your murder when you can just get a new body and carry on,I haven't seen any of it btw just the trailer

He suspects it's someone close to him so wants to know who it is and also be prepared for the next time (if they manage to destroy his chip and backup then he'll really be dead)

Nody

shamrock55 wrote: »

Just going by the trailer,why would you bother hiring someone to solve your murder when you can just get a new body and carry on,I haven't seen any of it btw just the trailer

The person hiring is a Meth (this is a bit of a book spoiler but nothing major) who's for all intent and purpose immortal and richer than Bill Gates today and has an attitude that would make Scarface look like Sister Theresa by comparison. He can buy anything, do anything and got a private army or three to protect him; yet someone managed to kill him. It's not that they killed a clone that's pissing him off but that someone dared to challenge him (and so far get away with it) that's pissing him off to the point of hiring someone to investigate it and he needs someone who's not under anyone's influence (hence an outsider from another planet).

Nody

Ok finished it; it was okish but could been better.

Here’s the major changes I’ve noted so far compared the book. Note the below contains book spoilers in the sense that they are relating things in the book, but I’ve done my best to avoid actually spoiling the story in the book for anyone who wants to read it. The major diversions start at episode 5 forward.

1) They don’t show off the sleeve power properly; a military sleeve is like a fully trained MMA figher crossed with a fantasy ninja on steroids and opiates who feel no pain, has combat reflexes that are out of this world and makes today’s elite soldiers look like children by comparison. And that’s all built into the sleeve so the moment you activate your sleeve you gain the same powers as well making you a superior fighting machine directly
2) The main guy has no side kick at all; it appears to only be included to have a token black guy in every episode
3) Anything relating to his sister etc. is all added on in the TV series and not in the book
4) The envoy program is still alive and active by the protectorate which is basically the global army who rules everything. They don’t care much how individual planets are run as long as they don’t try to stray to far outside the protectorate law of funding them or try to start interstellar war
5) The envoy program is run by the protectorate and no one else; no rebellion on his original planet etc. and everything you saw about the training, missions etc. were wrong
6) The virus part is in the book, but it was used on a world they were fighting on and they did not have to recreate it from stacks (which in fact is impossible from stacks or anything else as those are put under direct quarantine) and it’s a reoccurring part of his mental state
7) The main counter part is not his sister (as noted she’s not in the book) but someone else and the sister role in the TV series is a merged character from two book characters
8) The whole hotel part is greatly played up in the TV series compared to the book inc. all scenes about the therapy
9) There was no physical escape in the police station with mass murder, killing of the police family etc.
10) The ending is very different in how things played out in the book (book version clearly superior)

pixelburp

Only watched the first episode and so far, so OK? I mean it's almost 90% world-building & scene-setting, so it's hard to know what to make of it. The actual world-building was pretty well handled though: obviously the presence of a man out of time helped insert a natural audience surrogate into the world, but he wasn't bombarded with exposition & by and large the introductions were all quite organically done.

The AI in the Raven hotel was the standout character, that whole scene in fact was probably the best.

You certainly see the money invested in this though: it's easily the handsomest production Netflix have taken on - even if the mimicking of the Blade Runner aesthetic would make IP lawyers salivate, it's that blatant.

Kimbot

I have to say I am really enjoying this so far, have 6 episodes watched so only a few more to go hopefully this evening

mewso

I enjoyed the book immensely but the show is bang average unfortunately. Just like the book though I still can't get around the whole 'immortality' thing. To me it's blatantly not you that gets to live forever but a copy. The double-sleeving makes that pretty blatant. In this world if I die I die and some copy of me gets to carry on.I can see the appeal but not to the extent it seems to matter in this world.

pixelburp

I think I'm willing to suspend disbelief under the umbrella of "Science as Magic", because effectively that's what we're dealing with really; the notion that the soul & consciousness can be transferred from body to body, using some form of digital hardware as a 3rd party. Otherwise, like you implied there are a tonne of philosophical questions that naturally form from the entire concept, not to mention the obvious existential terror that comes from the doubt whether the re-sleeved version is still 'you'.

In fact, given that Bancroft notes that his mind is 'backed up' in a satellite every 48 hours, surely that's also proof that it's not 'true' immortality: the human is still alive, still conscious and self-aware yet the Stack takes a backup of brain activity. By definition that'd make it a copy, not the original version that's defining Bancroft as a sapient creature.

I can totally understand any religious or moral viewpoint that'd be aggressively anti-sleeve; I'd be more interested to know the rationalisation from those on the other side, the convincing argument that yes, the re-sleeved version is still existentially YOU.

mewso

My problem is more that the world is presented as one that for the most part seems to buy into the immortality thing. Soldiers are transported from planet to planet to fight wars with no mention of any concerns that the first time you do this it may be a death of a kind. I can buy this world as having no concerns over coming back after death but I can't see how nobody bats an eyelid on potentially killing your original consciousness to go on a holiday to mars. Certainly an interesting premise.

Skerries

but isn't this is what the transporter in Star Trek does?

DoctorEdgeWild

Finished this show off this morning, really enjoyed it.

If you can go into it and suspend your disbelief around some of the 'lighter' plot points then it can really be enjoyed as one of the best visual future city representations I've ever seen on screen.

Lead actor is very good, I think he's ideal for the part as written. Love interest tough cop is a little bit of a mixture of too many stereotypes for me but more than holds her own in scenes.

There's a lot going on and not something you could watch in the background I feel. If you've read a lot of sci-fi, there's absolutely nothing new but the presentation of old ideas is really excellent.

Hoping for a second series which could build on the world and maybe brush some of the weaker ideas under the digital rug.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Skerries wrote: »

but isn't this is what the transporter in Star Trek does?

The transporter also kills you and transports a copy.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I’m surprised anybody likes the acting in this, some side characters aside.

It looks great. The over arching story is ok. Script is meh. Acting is bad.

Will still watch it though

FreudianSlippers

Unearthly wrote: »

The acting is letting it down. Main guy has zero charisma.

He's like taking all the worst parts of Alexander Skarsgård and Thomas Jane and smashing them together.

FreudianSlippers

I finished it last night and it's... fine. Not awful, not excellent, firmly better than OK. The best acting is probably Poe and Ortega (not just because she gets her kit off around episode 7!), but the rest of the acting is pretty sub-par at the best of times.

The world-building feels a little shoddy given it has (apparently) good source material. There are a lot of inexplicable storytelling decisions which I think detract from the show as a whole (mainly the structure of the narrative - negative points to anyone who didn't guess

Kovacs was in the skin of Ortega's ex-partner/lover

by the end of the first episode... then I think they tell us around episode 6 and we're all like "no ****!").

I'd certainly tune in for season 2 - I think it's getting a lot of viewers and they seem to be (like myself) binging it, so I think safe money is on betting season 2 will be commissioned.

hal9550

UPFRONT: I have not read these books. i may do at some stage, as i am fond of decent sci fi - Clarke, Asimov, Banks, Philip K Dick etc etc - But i am a general Sci Fi fan - i watch everything i find - Westworld, The Man in the High Castle, Trek, SW, Continuum etc etc .. anyway

THIS SHOW IS AWESOME -

Its Atmospheric: From the moment the Tak started walking the streets.. to see a fully functioning world, the gloss and the grime, the glitz the glamor and the gruel.. i was well taken with it all

The Premise: Im fine with it. If Star Trek can have Mind Melds that cross light years, and Star Wars can have weapons that fire ACROSS light years, then im fine with downloading consciousness into a chip.. and yes by all means BACK IT UP!

The Plot - perhaps weaker than it ought be, but still intriguing.

SO i am REALLY HOPING THEY RENEW THIS - i will be genuinely dissapointed if the naysayers (not referring to anyone on here btw) get this series dumped. Many reviews have bemoaned the supposed 'white-washing' of the main character - but sure THATS THE PREMISE!!!??? Others have said its a bladerunner rip off - AH COME ON... For me this felt very much like the world of Deus Ex, a favourite Game Universe.. but regardless SO WHAT? It was CLASS

Really Netflix, this is decent - but i want MORE!

possible plot lines for me in future seasons would be

• Who are/were the elders
• AI within the universe
• The extent of human placement in the Universe

EDIT - The acting

Yes the main guy is weaker than we could have hoped for - but im fine with the rest - Purfoy is excellent as usual, the AI Poe is fantastic - honestly im fine with it - like in all honesty, compare the main character with Anakin Skywalker - no where near as bad- its fine- honestly PLEASE DONT CANCEL THIS

and yes i will read the book, but only AFTER i watch the series - i need a TV show, Spoiler Free, to look forward too

Johnny Storm

Well, there are two more Takeshi Kovacs books and they get more science-fictiony, in a very good way :pac:

I *really* hope we get to the see more series of this show

Johnny Storm

Nody wrote: »

Ok finished it; it was okish but could been better.

Here’s the major changes I’ve noted so far compared the book. Note the below contains book spoilers in the sense that they are relating things in the book, but I’ve done my best to avoid actually spoiling the story in the book for anyone who wants to read it. The major diversions start at episode 5 forward.

1) They don’t show off the sleeve power properly; a military sleeve is like a fully trained MMA figher crossed with a fantasy ninja on steroids and opiates who feel no pain, has combat reflexes that are out of this world and makes today’s elite soldiers look like children by comparison. And that’s all built into the sleeve so the moment you activate your sleeve you gain the same powers as well making you a superior fighting machine directly
2) The main guy has no side kick at all; it appears to only be included to have a token black guy in every episode
3) Anything relating to his sister etc. is all added on in the TV series and not in the book
4) The envoy program is still alive and active by the protectorate which is basically the global army who rules everything. They don’t care much how individual planets are run as long as they don’t try to stray to far outside the protectorate law of funding them or try to start interstellar war
5) The envoy program is run by the protectorate and no one else; no rebellion on his original planet etc. and everything you saw about the training, missions etc. were wrong
6) The virus part is in the book, but it was used on a world they were fighting on and they did not have to recreate it from stacks (which in fact is impossible from stacks or anything else as those are put under direct quarantine) and it’s a reoccurring part of his mental state
7) The main counter part is not his sister (as noted she’s not in the book) but someone else and the sister role in the TV series is a merged character from two book characters
8) The whole hotel part is greatly played up in the TV series compared to the book inc. all scenes about the therapy
9) There was no physical escape in the police station with mass murder, killing of the police family etc.
10) The ending is very different in how things played out in the book (book version clearly superior)

I deliberately didn't read your spoilers until I had finished all the eps.
Thanks for the comprehensive list - cos I thought my memory was going. ] As someone who really loved the book I found those differences quite distracting.

Overall I thought the show was really very good. I wonder if people who hadn't read the book first would enjoy it more?

Agent Coulson

There is something about Joel Kinnaman that I just can't seem to like as an actor.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I finished it. I very much warmed to it. With a better main actor it would have been fantastic but it was very good anyway.

I'm 4 in and it's definitely a case of the story keeping me interested. Poorly cast lead actor I think. Every time I see him I'm reminded of the main character from the Resident Evil 4 game.

The_Valeyard

This show is very good.

Tigger

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This show is very good.

Yeah i watched it in two days

gandalf

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm 4 in and it's definitely a case of the story keeping me interested. Poorly cast lead actor I think. Every time I see him I'm reminded of the main character from the Resident Evil 4 game.

Yep watched five so far and it's quite good but you are right about the main actor, it's like watching a side of beef trying to act!

pH

I thought it was great, obviously a lot different from the book, but as a bit of 'adult sci-fi' I really enjoyed it.

I'm not sure about the criticism of Joel Kinnaman's acting, Kovaks isn't a good guy superhero, and I liked his coldness, even if some see this just as wooden acting.

Not quite as good as American Gods, but 100 times better than the moralistic tripe normally slopped out to us as 'SciFi'