Lying about rape?

Isshelying

I have been with my girlfriend for a couple of years and she told me early on that she had been raped a year before we met. Quite a lot has happened in the meantime that has made me think she is lying about it.

She uses this incident as the reason for a lot of her behaviour and mental health issues. She can become very violent when she's angry.

I have found out that she has lied to me about a lot of things in the past and I'm not sure what to believe any more. We are getting married in 2019 but I'm having real doubts.

I love her and want to support her but this is a huge thing and there's no real way to find out for certain if it happened or not. I've tried to get her to go to the Dublin rape crisis centre but she won't and she won't report it to the guards either.

I know I'll look terrible if I don't believe her but I have good reasons to. It's not just doubt from her lying in the past, it's things specific to that incident that have happened. I apologise if I'm bring vague but I don't want to go into too much detail.

Should I walk away or try to discuss it with her? I know saying to her that I don't believe her will cause her to get really angry. I want to support her but am I being played?

QueenRizla

OP, rape claim aside, it sounds like she has a track record for lying, gets violent, has mental health issues, anger issues and behavioral problems. I’d be running a mile and no way would I marry her on that basis. I’d want to marry someone grounded mature and in control of their emotions. Sounds like she needs fixing not support.

Mr. Incognito

Get out- this girl is a head case.

leggo

Tough to get specific without specifics, but if your girlfriend is being violent towards you during arguments, then you're in an abusive relationship and should seriously question whether you want to marry her on that basis alone. Marriage will only make that worse, not better. And no what did or didn't happen her is not an excuse for that behaviour towards others.

LegacyUser

OP, someone close to me was in the same situation a few years ago. His partner said she'd been raped and used it as a reason why she rarely wanted to have sex or be intimate in any way with him. When he suggested counselling or to report to the guards she wasn't interested. A mutual friend was a guard and he confided in her not knowing what to do. Between one thing and another the guard friend had a word with her and told him afterwards it more than likely had never happened. He married this woman and had a miserable time of it. Things didn't change or get better after the wedding, they only got worse. Please save yourself the pain and heartache and really think about what kind of life and partner in life you want and deserve.

Isshelying

I know i should walk away but i want to make every effort to make this work. She isnt a bad person but is really troubled. How do you even approach having a conversation wjere you say you doubt something like that?

As for specifics, she has told me several different versions of the story that wildly contradict each other and one in particular couldnt be true. She keeps changing major details of what happened

GingerLily

I can understand why you want to be more patient with her, but she has issues and she's not trying to fix them.
You need to postpone the wedding, until she sorts our her issues you cannot marry her, marriage won't fix her issues and it will only trap you further in.

Do you love her? Can you love her if you don't believe her. I'm not suggesting she's telling the truth, but either way this there is a massive issue here.

Xterminator

Hi OP

There is no easy solution here.

Can you picture any scenario where you bring this up, express your doubts about the veracity of her story and it all works out? No.

Doesn't really matter if its true, but her other lies have muddied the waters causing your doubts, or if its made up or inflated from a real experience and repeated so long she half believes it herself anyway. The end result is the same.

you have to decide if you are going to accept her flaws and all. Can you handle it, not just the past, but in the future too, when she tells you something but you cannot take her word for it as gospel?

sozbox

Isshelying wrote: »

I know i should walk away but i want to make every effort to make this work. She isnt a bad person but is really troubled. How do you even approach having a conversation wjere you say you doubt something like that?

As for specifics, she has told me several different versions of the story that wildly contradict each other and one in particular couldnt be true. She keeps changing major details of what happened

Stop trying to ‘fix’ her you won’t succeed.

At best you’ll end up in a violent sexless marriage, at worst you’ll get a similar accusation and a divorce.

She’s not an old car, you can’t nor should you fix her.

Get out now before you regret it.

miamee

According to you she has:

- behavioural issues
- mental health issues
- is violent
- has anger issues
- lies to you about some things

Rape claim and health issues aside, are violence, anger and lies something you want to sign up to for life? Is she aware that she has mental health and behavioural issues? Is it something you've spoken to her about? If not, you need to bring it up. If you have and she has dismissed your concerns that is probably as much as she's ever going to do about it. You can't force someone to get help, they'll do it if and when they are ready themselves. I'd be pausing all wedding preparations and having a serious talk with her about all of the above and how you are feeling about it, it doesn't have to centre around her claim of rape as to me it seems like that is far from the only issue here.

bucketybuck

You are probably already thinking this, but a wedding in 2019 is far enough away that you could quietly postpone it now without any major hassle or many people noticing.

I think you absolutely should be doing that, you cannot get married to somebody you don't trust.

It won't be easy but you need to have some tough conversations with her, whether she likes it or not.

leggo

OP I've been in a similar relationship: lies, horrific major claims that look questionable under a microscope (in my case the specifics of her claim didn't even amount to rape, I think she just liked the drama and attention of saying it happened to her and, like your situation, it provided a handy excuse for bad behaviour), even physical and emotional abuse. So I get it. I get how it's like two people and one is perfect so you hold on in hope of getting that person permanently, or at least 75% of the time!

The reality, though, is that the decision is already made on her part. She has chosen to deal with whatever happened to her in this way and you really don't have a say in that, all you have a say in is whether you stay or go. This is who she is and, however well-intentioned you are for her happiness, you really don't have any right to try and change her. For your own sake I'd start trying to come to terms with this and all it entails.

Once you have, you have to decide if this is something you want to live with for the rest of your life, because that's the offer on the table. If you decide it's not (and for the record I'd strongly advise this), then and only then can you go to her and say as much, because you have to have one foot out the door and be ready to leave when you do. If you're not serious, nothing will get done and it'll just be a big argument over nothing. All evidence says that the best you'll get is a meagre tribute effort at changing before going back to the status quo, but if she sees that you're serious then there's a small chance she will get the help that she needs and improve. That's your route to trying to save the relationship and having a slim chance at doing so, but more likely ending it while knowing that you gave her every opportunity to change things.

Isshelying

miamee wrote: »

According to you she has:

- behavioural issues
- mental health issues
- is violent
- has anger issues
- lies to you about some things

Rape claim and health issues aside, are violence, anger and lies something you want to sign up to for life? Is she aware that she has mental health and behavioural issues? Is it something you've spoken to her about? If not, you need to bring it up. If you have and she has dismissed your concerns that is probably as much as she's ever going to do about it. You can't force someone to get help, they'll do it if and when they are ready themselves. I'd be pausing all wedding preparations and having a serious talk with her about all of the above and how you are feeling about it, it doesn't have to centre around her claim of rape as to me it seems like that is far from the only issue here.

It is something we have talked about and she puts it all down to this. She says she will get help but never gets around to it. If i mention it she gets angry and says to stop pressuring her.

She dismisses the violence by saying she cant hit me hard enough to hurt me. I spoke to a friend who is a guard about the violence and he said despite what anyone says it wont be taken seriously because im the victim not her. She wont be made leave our house if it gets bad or get anything beyond a very mild slap on the wrist in the courts system.

I feel like its a lose lose situation whatever I do.

DeadHand

The rape claim is irrelevant.

The relationship is abusive and you need to leave it.

Isshelying

leggo wrote: »

OP I've been in a similar relationship: lies, horrific major claims that look questionable under a microscope (in my case the specifics of her claim didn't even amount to rape, I think she just liked the drama and attention of saying it happened to her and, like your situation, it provided a handy excuse for bad behaviour), even physical and emotional abuse. So I get it. I get how it's like two people and one is perfect so you hold on in hope of getting that person permanently, or at least 75% of the time!

Thanks, you seem to have been exactly where I am. The only person I have talked to in real.life about this said something similar. She reckons she is making it up so she can use it as an excuse for her behaviour and to get the sympathy that goes with being a victim without the hassle of through guards, court etc. It seems that it is one of those things that can't ever be questioned. She said certain types of women do it because they love the drama. I thought that was fairly harsh at the time but its beginning to make sense.

I don't know if confronting her with it will ever work as she always freaks out when confronted with a lie. From the replies here it sounds like I've been really blind and that this is beyond repair.

mapaca

DeadHand wrote:

The rape claim is irrelevant.

DeadHand wrote:

The relationship is abusive and you need to leave it.

This. She is physically abusive, that's all the reason you need to walk away.

leggo

Isshelying wrote: »

Thanks, you seem to have been exactly where I am. The only person I have talked to in real.life about this said something similar. She reckons she is making it up so she can use it as an excuse for her behaviour and to get the sympathy that goes with being a victim without the hassle of through guards, court etc. It seems that it is one of those things that can't ever be questioned. She said certain types of women do it because they love the drama. I thought that was fairly harsh at the time but its beginning to make sense.

I don't know if confronting her with it will ever work as she always freaks out when confronted with a lie. From the replies here it sounds like I've been really blind and that this is beyond repair.

Yeah you're likely never getting the confession you're looking for. If she's a compulsive liar, she'll dodge, bob, weave and deflect for infinity because, again, that's just who she is. I confronted the ex I spoke of with crystal clear evidence about lies she'd told (not about a rape mind I never touched that), and like I'd be trained in how to interview people like this through my job, and I had her dead to rights ("You admit you said this? But you also admit you said this? Here is a screenshot of you saying this? Those three things completely contradict and cannot all be true together, but you still say you didn't lie?")...nothing. Regardless of what else you do, I'd give up on the dream of getting a big confession one day. Absolute most you're looking at are some vague, minor admissions of wrongdoing to placate you that you'll realise upon closer examination aren't even specific confessions.

And really, what does it matter? If you know she lies and you can't trust her word, isn't that all you need to know on the matter?

LegacyUser

I would thread very carefully here OP. An ex of mine used to tell me her ex used to beat her up etc, all kinds of horrible stories. Having broken up with her since I doubt any of it ever happened but she seemed to relish being a victim of some sort. She used to subject me to violent rages on a weekly basis towards the end. Being punched in the head and face repeatedly, pulling clumps of my hair out, smashing up my stuff, all in a normal Saturday night. One time after we had sex she said I raped her and started telling all her friends. A few weeks later she gave me an ultimatum that I had to marry her or she was gone.
It's all crystal clear to me how much of a nutter she was now but people like this are out there. Needy attention seeking drama queens. Run a f**king mile mate.

December2012

Do not marry this bully. You are worth more than that.

Contact Amen for support

Tenigate

Isshelying wrote: »

I don't know if confronting her with it will ever work as she always freaks out when confronted with a lie. From the replies here it sounds like I've been really blind and that this is beyond repair.

Op don't walk away from the relationship... Run!

Can you imagine being married to her?

What if you had kids and she started hitting you in front of them, or perhaps lying that you hit her.. how would that end?

Teyla Emmagan

Isshelying wrote:

I feel like its a lose lose situation whatever I do.

No it's not. You have the rest of your life ahead of you. You simply cannot spend it with a person like this, who refuses to address their issues and who, most importantly, uses violence against you. She is not going to change because she doesn't want to. She gets angry to drive you away so she can continue to carry on as she likes. I don't know you but I know you deserve better than this because every human being does. And she is only going to get worse you know, the more she wears you down and locks you in. A marriage would mean a life of misery for you.

You have got to end this. Do not get sucked in any more by "helping" her. That's just a trap. Run away now, as fast as you can.

bucketybuck

Isshelying wrote: »

She dismisses the violence by saying she cant hit me hard enough to hurt me.

Seriously, this isn't normal. The lies are something you should idly muse about in the future but long after you have walked away from the abusive partner!!!

Isshelying

I think its obvious what I have to do but feeling really bitter right now that someone can get away with doing this. There doesnt seem to be anywhere near the amount of support available for men in this situation than there is for women from what i can see. Certainly nowhere i can go if i need somewhere to stay

silverharp

Isshelying wrote: »

I feel like its a lose lose situation whatever I do.

Have some respect for yourself and get out of there, the relationship is going nowhere but a car crash, its toxic.

Fakediamond

Isshelying wrote: »

I think its obvious what I have to do but feeling really bitter right now that someone can get away with doing this. There doesnt seem to be anywhere near the amount of support available for men in this situation than there is for women from what i can see. Certainly nowhere i can go if i need somewhere to stay

I would say that if you're intending to leave, the advice would be the same as for an abused woman. Make a plan, put money aside secretly for a deposit/rent etc. Put your important documents in a safe place (passport/birth cert etc), like with a friend or family member. And when you decide to leave, be careful about your personal safety. You could pack up your stuff when she's not there and move it out, and meet her in a public place for the break-up.

Remember, you don't owe her anything, she is abusing you and you owe it to yourself and your potential future children not to put them through this. It will never get better, only worse.

Good luck.

Hitman3000

This sounds cruel, but life is too short to allow someone make you miserable. You only get one life. Try and encourage her to get help but you need to move on.

Yellow pack crisps

Maybe she was and maybe she wasn’t, it’s pretty much irrelevant if she won’t seek help and she is using it as a crutch to beat you with.

Your gut seems to be screaming at you and it’s one of these times that you should listen to it. No one deserves to have their mental or physical well-being abused by anyone regardless of the context behind it. If what she says is true then perhaps you ending the relationship will be the catalyst for her to seek help, she sounds like she needs it regardless of what she claimed happened to her.

It won’t get better! It will get worse.

Rubberchikken

You sound like a good kind person who is trying to do their best but your part er needs professional help by the sound of it.
Why not let the talk of weddings go for the time being and see if she will go to see a counsellor or gp.

suicide_circus

If you have good grounds and evidence to doubt her about something as serious as a rape then what the hell are you doing marrying her? She's not right in the head, you know this. Put the brakes on this thing.

bp

Call Amen, they will help you sort through your emotions

Make offical complaint to police about abuse (times, dates, photos, texts etc) so if (when) she tries to accuse you of stuff you have your evidence

Tell family so they can support you

You cannot fix her, only she can do that

Abuse is never ok

Teyla Emmagan

Isshelying wrote:

I think its obvious what I have to do but feeling really bitter right now that someone can get away with doing this. There doesnt seem to be anywhere near the amount of support available for men in this situation than there is for women from what i can see. Certainly nowhere i can go if i need somewhere to stay

How do you know? Have you spoken to Amen yet? You are not going to end up homeless. And staying with friends or family for a month or two would be a lot better than being in a shelter for battered partners. She won't have gotten away with anything when she has to tell everyone the marriage is off because she is a mental cow. It will all come out alright. Who owns the house you are living in now?

Big Bag of Chips

You can deal with her behaviour without questioning her rape claims. When I started going out with my husband at first, I used to hit him in a playful manner if he said something rude, or slagged me or something. It was never intended to be violent, but I might slap/punch his arm, in "mock shock" at what he would have said. Not enough to hurt, but a slap all the same.

One day he told me "Stop hitting me". I laughed it off because I wasn't "hitting" him. The next time it happened he looked me square in the face and said "Don't ever hit me again. How would you like it if I did the same to you? Next time you do it, I'm gone". It really made me see how my behaviour wasn't right. And I have never playfully hit/punched him since that day.

You can tell your gf that you are not willing to put up with this anymore. It doesn't matter if it hurts or not. She shouldn't be hitting you. It doesn't matter what her past issues are, she shouldn't be taking her rage and anger out on you. That is what you can use to talk to her and bargain with her. Tell her that you are not happy in the relationship and you are not happy with the way things happen. You are 100% entitled to your own feelings and reactions. That way you are giving her the opportunity to make a real change in her own behaviour. If she dismisses you and turns it around and uses it to attack you and play the victim again, then you have a choice to make. Because she is letting you know that your feelings don't matter in this relationship, and that won't change.

If you really want to give it one proper try, you could suggest that you go to couples counselling to learn how to communicate better with each other. That way you are offering solutions as a couple rather than laying all the blame at her feet. To be honest, most couples could probably benefit from some lessons in how to communicate better with each other.

I hope it works out for you..

Dr Crayfish

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

<Snip>There's no need to quote the entire preceding post.

Would you tell a woman who gets slapped around by her fella to give him another chance? Like f*ck you would. He needs to run a mile.

Ursus Horribilis

It also seems like you're looking at her in terms of her potential. What she could become "if only" she'd get help. The person she could be if only you/someone else could fix her. From what you've told us, this sounds like a disaster of a marriage waiting to happen. Make no bones about it. If you marry this woman you are marrying the person she is right now. If you were at peace with that, you would not have started this thread. Like everybody else on this thread (and it is fairly unanimous), I strongly advise you against marrying her. I think you should leave this relationship before any more damage is done to you. If you think leaving her now isn't simple, try doing so once you're married. Or worse still, trying leaving when you've had children.

Tenigate

I'd disagree with big bag of chips about couples counseling.
The time to work on your issues is before entering a relationship. If a relationship is mature enough and develops issues, or if kids are involved, that's when couple's counselling is useful. Not in a short relationship where trust and honesty don't exist and physical violence is frequent.

Big Bag of Chips

They are already in a relationship and one where they plan on getting married. It sounds like it is already planned to go ahead. Now is the time to sort out any problems BEFORE getting married and making it a whole lot worse.

Isshelying wrote: »

I love her and want to support her ...

Should I walk away or try to discuss it with her?

Isshelying wrote: »

I know i should walk away but i want to make every effort to make this work. She isnt a bad person but is really troubled. How do you even approach having a conversation wjere you say you doubt something like that?

My reply was mostly in response to these sentiments by you OP. You would be perfectly within your rights to walk away from this and never look back, you owe her nothing. But I get the feeling that is not how you want this to play out. And least not initially. I know you started this thread to get advice on how to handle her claims that she's been raped. But as is common in PI your thread has taken on another direction.

You are the one living and breathing this relationship. You are the one that knows her. Nobody here does. Ultimately you will make whatever decision is the right one for you. But, you need to believe and she needs to understand that her problems aren't your fault and you should never be her emotional or physical punching bag. It's ultimatum time. But you need to be prepared to stand by your ultimatum. Otherwise this will just continue, and escalate.

Fakediamond

Could I suggest looking up personality disorders? Especially borderline/histrionic/narcissistic. While only psychiatrists can diagnose the condition, you might gain some insights into the behaviour you're seeing. It's easier to make major life decisions when you're in possession of the right information.

justfillmein

well nobody here knows your relationship only you.
you said you love her, and you said she isn't a bad person.

you can hardly say to her that you dont believe she was raped.
even if its what you think, just dont go there in case she actually was.

if you just finished with her now you would never know the truth and probably wonder down the line if you have done the right thing.

maybe you can tell her that no way will the wedding go through, or the relationship go any further unless she see's someone now for her behaviour.
it's either that or you will leave her because you wont accept that behaviour anymore.
she will either get help to save her relationship or she wont, and then you can walk away will a clear mind

Dr Crayfish

Absolutely astonishing replies to this thread. If it was the other way around people would be suggesting Garda etc.

PopTarts

You should end it while you can. You must know deep down it's not going to work and things will be worse for you if you have married her.


I'd also be careful, if she is lying, of what she might say when you do end things.

Document everything now and when you end things. Even try to record it. She's dangerous!

Grayditch

Call off the wedding until she has sought professional help. You're going to have to make her work for it, for her sake. This ultimatum could be the best thing you could do for her.

If she won't do it now, she never will and going into a marriage with someone who is abusive and untrustworthy with zero effort on her part to change is a a disastrous idea for both of you.

bucketybuck

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Absolutely astonishing replies to this thread. If it was the other way around people would be suggesting Garda etc.

Usually replies like this are a little over the top but really, it does seem like certain things are being downplayed in various responses. Imagine a woman coming in and saying this:

he uses this incident as the reason for a lot of his behaviour and mental health issues. he can become very violent when he's angry.

I have found out that he has lied to me about a lot of things in the past and I'm not sure what to believe any more.

he says he will get help but never gets around to it. If i mention it he gets angry

he dismisses the violence by saying he cant hit me hard enough to hurt me.

I don't know if confronting him with it will ever work as he always freaks out when confronted

Damn sure the responses wouldn't be "if you just finished with him now you would never know the truth" or "You're going to have to make him work for it, for his sake".

justfillmein

bucketybuck wrote: »

Damn sure the responses wouldn't be "if you just finished with him now you would never know the truth" or "You're going to have to make him work for it, for his sake".

and what if 'he' was actually abused and does need help.

the op has said he wants the relationship to work

Cocksy

wow how could you marry her? she is nuts

SummerHaze

she is insane

minikin

Give yourself the Christmas present of leaving this relationship.
Don’t get into your reasons why - just have a conversation with her saying that your feelings have changed and you no longer see a future together.
Record this conversation to avoid any future claims she may contrive against you.

SuperSean11

Get out of there. Don’t get her pregnant on the way out, the pill can fail in these situations for some reason...

valoren

minikin wrote: »

Give yourself the Christmas present of leaving this relationship.
Don’t get into your reasons why - just have a conversation with her saying that your feelings have changed and you no longer see a future together.
Record this conversation to avoid any future claims she may contrive against you.

+1

Rule #1 cover yourself.

Be prepared for her mask to slip even further if and when you tell her you are ending the relationship. She will do and say anything to escape accountability or accept her responsibility for her part in it. You are clever enough to see that an established pattern of abuse has already manifested in your relationship as is, her modus operandi being that she is safe to act appallingly whenever she feels like it, without the need for self improvement as she has her stand-by, ready made excuse of 'I only acted like that/said those things because I was raped!" and the various machinations of that fundamental excuse and if you question them she rebuffs you with verbal and physical abuse.

You've put the pieces together yourself with her litany of lies since which have destroyed her credibility. As mentioned, she needs to help herself. You've tried to be supportive and encouraged her as a partner, she has abused you and been violent in return. That was the thanks you got. You've had enough red flags and it's time to move on. She will find someone else in time and will probably go through the same pattern as you yourself did.

As mentioned, protect yourself. She has to your mind lied about rape, so there is a possibility she will look to destroy your own credibility in retaliation for ending the relationship. You mentioned a Guard as a friend?

I spoke to a friend who is a guard about the violence

Might it be worth speaking to them as to potentially making a statement detailing the abuse to prevent any such accusations from destroying your reputation? She's been violent towards you so you could well be within your rights to complain about assault. Ideally it would come to nothing, but at least you'd have something on file/recorded officially should anything nefarious happen.

mea_k

QueenRizla wrote: »

OP, rape claim aside, it sounds like she has a track record for lying, gets violent, has mental health issues, anger issues and behavioral problems. I’d be running a mile and no way would I marry her on that basis. I’d want to marry someone grounded mature and in control of their emotions. Sounds like she needs fixing not support.

Pretty horrid way to put it. My husband married me for me. We had our bad patch. I Got diagnosed with mental condition and now we know how to fix this
He seen my flaws. And still married me for me. And im going to be forever thankful because initially he spotted that something wasn't quite right with me.
Quite possibly he saved my life. Now we have beautiful son together and planning for another baby. Love conquers anything. And if such a slight issue is deterrent weather you want to marry someone or not then maybe you shouldn't marry them at all because you are allready daubt in the outcome.
Remember we are all little bit broken.

bucketybuck

mea_k wrote: »

Pretty horrid way to put it. My husband married me for me. We had our bad patch. I Got diagnosed with mental condition and now we know how to fix this
He seen my flaws. And still married me for me. And im going to be forever thankful because initially he spotted that something wasn't quite right with me.
Quite possibly he saved my life. Now we have beautiful son together and planning for another baby. Love conquers anything. And if such a slight issue is deterrent weather you want to marry someone or not then maybe you shouldn't marry them at all because you are allready daubt in the outcome.
Remember we are all little bit broken.

Some people are broken because their partner is hitting them. That isn't a slight issue and love isn't ever conquering that.

I doubt you would ever walk into a womens shelter and give them that little speech.

leggo

mea_k wrote: »

Pretty horrid way to put it. My husband married me for me. We had our bad patch. I Got diagnosed with mental condition and now we know how to fix this
He seen my flaws. And still married me for me. And im going to be forever thankful because initially he spotted that something wasn't quite right with me.
Quite possibly he saved my life. Now we have beautiful son together and planning for another baby. Love conquers anything. And if such a slight issue is deterrent weather you want to marry someone or not then maybe you shouldn't marry them at all because you are allready daubt in the outcome.
Remember we are all little bit broken.

Nobody is saying he should run because she's got mental health problems, as you say we all have our stuff. People are saying he should run because she's expressed no interest in having her mental health problems addressed beyond assaulting him. Again, with domestic abuse cases, you have to reverse the sexes to see if your advice makes sense...would you suggest a woman stay in a situation where she is regularly violently abused during arguments?