Penalty points for no registration plate

LorcanJ

Hi,

The front Registration plate fell off my car while driving to Galway a day after the recent storms and I was stopped the next day (a Sunday) in the middle of Connemara by a Garda who issued me an on the spot penalty point for the offence. I have evidence from a toll bridge that the reg plate was on the car earlier in the week and I fixed it the next day, but the local guard was obnoxious and wouldnt listen to me. Now I want to take it to court and object, mostly becuase his treatment was unfair.
Has anybody experienced something similar or would you recommend I suck this up and just pay?

Thanks

CalamariFritti

If your plate was missing how is it unfair?

Besides that if it was me in this situation id suck it up. It’s not a battle I’d pick. Because it’s gonna cause you headache, money and you gonna lose that battle anyway.
I may feel I’m in the right and that may anger me and I might want to fight it on principle.... but it’s not worth it.

LorcanJ

The offence is exactly that - no front registration plate on the car - 3 fixed penalty points and a 80 Euro fine

LorcanJ

Unfair because it fell off on the road on a Saturday without me knowing and I had no way to fix it in the middle of Connemara the next day, a Sunday .... I have evidence it was on the car on the previous Thursday and I fixed it the next day (Monday)

Doddles88

It just shows you how lucky or unlucky you can be. Similar situation with my Dad a while back, registration plate came loose or something and fell off. My Dad didn't notice at all, guard pulled him over and he explained that he hadn't a clue it was missing. Guard showed discretion and let him go. Got a replacement registration the next day. No consistency at all shown comparing the two situations.

Del2005

LorcanJ wrote: »

The offence is exactly that - no front registration plate on the car - 3 fixed penalty points and a 80 Euro fine

So you could have got a plate on the Saturday but it's the Garda's fault that you didn't. The law requires a licence plate to the front and rear, when you had one doesn't matter if you are driving without one.

beechwood55

OSI wrote: »

But that's not a penalty point offence.

It is.

tringle

Our plate fell off in a city ( a bystander saw it and madly waved at us to give it to us) and 10 minutes later we got pulled over for it. We showed it to the Garda and told him exactly were it fell off. He directed us to a garage telling us to get it fixed immediately, nor letting us drive 2 hours home to fix it.
You knew it was off, you knew you had a long journey, you should have fixed it before you went.
But I have no idea if it is an offence.
If it were me I'd pay.

LorcanJ

It is an actual offence, or at least this is what the notice says

Using vehicle in a public place without an authorisation plate - 3 penalty points and fine

beechwood55

And if you take it to court you risk getting 5 points.

beechwood55

It is. It's no 9 on that list. Authorisation plate means registration plate.

davo2001

LorcanJ wrote: »

Using vehicle in a public place without an authorisation plate - 3 penalty points and fine

Which is exactly what you were doing, hence the fine and points you got.

Seems a bit harse TBH, my guess is that you were stopped, the Guard told you about it, you gave him some lip about it only coming off the day before and now he is "teaching you a lesson".

But again, this is only an assumption.

beechwood55

Having googled it seems that an authorisation plate is not a registration plate.

exaisle

davo2001 wrote: »

Which is exactly what you were doing, hence the fine and points you got.

Seems a bit harse TBH, my guess is that you were stopped, the Guard told you about it, you gave him some lip about it only coming off the day before and now he is "teaching you a lesson".

But again, this is only an assumption.

If he was from the traffic corps he would issue the penalty regardless without as much as a trace of lip.

LorcanJ

Not Fair because there was no possible opportunity to fix it because of when and where this happened (in the middle of connemara on a Sunday). I had no idea this plate was loose before I took the journey and I still believe I should not be penalized for this especially because I can prove it was on the car 3 days previously and I did fix it at the very next opportunity, the next day. The Garda was obnoxious, wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie and I want to re-tell my story in Court and bring him to account

Kimbot

LorcanJ wrote: »

Not Fair because there was no possible opportunity to fix it because of when and where this happened (in the middle of connemara on a Sunday). I had no idea this plate was loose before I took the journey and I still believe I should not be penalized for this especially because I can prove it was on the car 3 days previously and I did fix it at the very next opportunity, the next day. The Garda was obnoxious, wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie and I want to re-tell my story in Court and bring him to account

Make up your mind, it either happened on the saturday or the sunday... in your OP you state it fell off on the way to galway and the next day (Sunday) you were caught and now you are saying it fell off on Sunday.

davo2001

LorcanJ wrote: »

Not Fair because there was no possible opportunity to fix it because of when and where this happened (in the middle of connemara on a Sunday). I had no idea this plate was loose before I took the journey and I still believe I should not be penalized for this especially because I can prove it was on the car 3 days previously and I did fix it at the very next opportunity, the next day. The Garda was obnoxious, wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie and I want to re-tell my story in Court and bring him to account

Official line:

It's up to you to check the condition of the car before you take it out on the public roads.

Unofficial line:

Bit of a ****ty decision but I think there might be more to this than you're saying, IE, you pissed the Garda off or gave him some guff.

If this goes to court, you haven't got a leg to stand on I'm afraid.

amcalester

LorcanJ wrote: »

Not Fair because there was no possible opportunity to fix it because of when and where this happened (in the middle of connemara on a Sunday). I had no idea this plate was loose before I took the journey and I still believe I should not be penalized for this especially because I can prove it was on the car 3 days previously and I did fix it at the very next opportunity, the next day. The Garda was obnoxious, wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie and I want to re-tell my story in Court and bring him to account

I was done for speeding once, should I have claimed that because I wasn't speeding at other times I should be let off?

Get Real

Yeah it's number 9 on the list above. 3 points and 60euro fine if paid within 28days.

It's up to you and you only OP if you want to pay or wait for court. If you can provide the evidence that you had it the other day eye the judge might side with you. Then again the judge may not. It's really up to the judge as an individual and opinion varies from person to person.

That's even seen in this forum, some say it's unfair as it only came off recently and you were going to get it fixed, others say the offence is for driving without one and you were driving without one. It'll vary between judges too.

I'd forget about focussing on the guard and not take it too personally. The ticket has been issued now and it's out of his hands, he probably doesn't care if you get away with it, his part of the job is done and you'll either pay it or a judge will decide.

ohnonotgmail

LorcanJ wrote: »

The offence is exactly that - no front registration plate on the car - 3 fixed penalty points and a 80 Euro fine

LorcanJ wrote: »

It is an actual offence, or at least this is what the notice says

Using vehicle in a public place without an authorisation plate - 3 penalty points and fine

you need to tell us what it actually says onthe FCPN. an authorisation plate is not a registration plate.

ION08

Sounds like you were just unfortunate enough to meet a d*ckhead Gard - who from my experiences thankfully seem to be in the minority.

Let us know what the actual charge on the notice is.

GM228

beechwood55 wrote: »

It is. It's no 9 on that list. Authorisation plate means registration plate.

Authorisation plates are not registration plates. They are the information plates on large buses, HGVs, trailers etc which show manufacturer, type approval number etc.

Missing registration plates is not a penalty points offence.

Dia1988

Why didn’t you get a bit of 2 blank a4 pages, a marker and sellotape and write your registration clearly visible across these 2 blank A4 pages then sellotape this inside your windscreen.

Then if you were stopped by a Garda he’d see you were temporarily remedying the problem!

mrs.doubt.fire

I'm sorry for your troubles but I'd suck it up and just pay it. After all...the law is you are in charge of the vehicle and it's up to you (the driver - regardless if you own it or not, but your driving it) to make sure everything is in working order and that includes the reg plate, basically you have to be like an airline pilot and do a walk around your vehicle to make sure everything is in order and working. I know it's not what you want to hear...but hey ho that's the way it goes.
As for 3 penalty points....yah, that's a bit steep alright. I think a fine should be enough and yes reg plates do fall off. **** happens.

Peatys

I'd check that out, authorisation plate and reg are different.
Ring a station and ask them (not your local one, he sounds like a bit of a jobsworth)

CalamariFritti

LorcanJ wrote: »

Unfair because it fell off on the road on a Saturday without me knowing and I had no way to fix it in the middle of Connemara the next day, a Sunday .... I have evidence it was on the car on the previous Thursday and I fixed it the next day (Monday)

Unfair or unlucky. I'd feel a little hard done by too, but I still wouldn't take it on. Your chances are too slim in this. Ultimately there was no plate when you were stopped and thats what they're going to tell you.

CalamariFritti

LorcanJ wrote: »

Not Fair because there was no possible opportunity to fix it because of when and where this happened (in the middle of connemara on a Sunday). I had no idea this plate was loose before I took the journey and I still believe I should not be penalized for this especially because I can prove it was on the car 3 days previously and I did fix it at the very next opportunity, the next day. The Garda was obnoxious, wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie and I want to re-tell my story in Court and bring him to account

If there was no good spirit between yourself and the guard I would definitely not take it on.

extra-ordinary_

If you have the free time to go to court then I'd go and let the garda make a fool of himself giving testimony about a missing registration plate while the FCPN is for something entirely different.


"Not guilty your honour"

JohnBoy26

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

I'm sorry for your troubles but I'd suck it up and just pay it. After all...the law is you are in charge of the vehicle and it's up to you (the driver - regardless if you own it or not, but your driving it) to make sure everything is in working order and that includes the reg plate, basically you have to be like an airline pilot and do a walk around your vehicle to make sure everything is in order and working. I know it's not what you want to hear...but hey ho that's the way it goes.
As for 3 penalty points....yah, that's a bit steep alright. I think a fine should be enough and yes reg plates do fall off. **** happens.

If I was the op and I had been given penalty points for something that carries no penalty points then there's no way id be sucking it up. This is something that could have an effect on their insurance. Believe it or not gards don't know everything about the law and sometimes get it wrong.

colm_mcm

Hi Lorcan. Just wondering car do you drive and is it standard.

Isambard

thing is , it's a requirement to have the plate fixed to the vehicle, it can't fall off in reality. If one screw fell out, it would still be dangling from the other. So maybe it was tampered with or maybe it was taped on or maybe it was on the dashboard all along.

bazz26

bucketybuck

LorcanJ wrote: »

wouldnt let me explain and instead he insinuated I was trying to lie

Which isn't fair, because nobody ever lies to the guards.

riemann

LorcanJ wrote: »

Hi,

The front Registration plate fell off my car while driving to Galway a day after the recent storms and I was stopped the next day (a Sunday) in the middle of Connemara by a Garda who issued me an on the spot penalty point for the offence. I have evidence from a toll bridge that the reg plate was on the car earlier in the week and I fixed it the next day, but the local guard was obnoxious and wouldnt listen to me. Now I want to take it to court and object, mostly becuase his treatment was unfair.
Has anybody experienced something similar or would you recommend I suck this up and just pay?

Thanks

This is one of the many occasions where there is various outcomes depending on the attitude of the Garda and person stopped.

Are you a young male with an attitude? Is your car "modified"? I'm guessing as much. Although the Guard could just have been a dick.
Always found Guards very pleasant and reasonable whenever I've been stopped.

seamus

OP, apply for a cancellation of the notice on a Category A1 basis - Detection issue/Material Error.

The basis of the claim is that your vehicle is not required to carry an authorisation plate and therefore the notice is invalid.

Chances are your cancellation request will be rejected, bring it to court, let the Garda make a fool of himself.

Dravokivich

irelandrover wrote: »

I'd assume no-one drives the wrong way down a motorway on purpose. Therefore the threat of penalty points would not prevent it.

People speed on purpose and the threat of penalty points could prevent them.

The lack of awareness required to drive the wrong way down a motorway is concerning. All the ramps have warning signs. It shouldn't be a simple mistake, as you make it sound. Especially when people tend to comment on drivers who've missed an exit and turned around / reversed against traffic. They should be taken off the road for doing something like that.

elperello

What is the prescribed penalty for not having a front number plate?

zilog_jones

So are we supposed to carry spare number plates at all times in case one falls off on a Sunday? :rolleyes::)

GM228

elperello wrote: »

What is the prescribed penalty for not having a front number plate?

A fine up to €5000 on conviction.

seamus

zilog_jones wrote: »

So are we supposed to carry spare number plates at all times in case one falls off on a Sunday? :rolleyes::)

No, but you have an obligation to ensure the roadworthiness of your vehicle, this would include ensuring that your number plates are securely fixed to the vehicle.

"It blew off in a storm" isn't plausible, and ultimately no excuse, even if it did fall off while driving.

bucketybuck

zilog_jones wrote: »

So are we supposed to carry spare number plates at all times in case one falls off on a Sunday? :rolleyes::)

Why do people keep coming out with these types of statements?

You do realise that the number plate that fell off on a Sunday is indistinguishable from the number plate that was removed a month ago so that some chancer could avoid the M50 toll? Or that fell off three months ago and the clueless driver never bothered their hole replacing it?

The offence cannot be "Failure to display a number plate except in cases where it only happened an hour ago and this particular driver is the only honest man in Ireland". Its just "failure to display a number plate", and rightly so.

zilog_jones

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why do people keep coming out with these types of statements?

If I was being serious I wouldn't have ended the statement with ":rolleyes::)"

selectamatic

colm_mcm wrote: »

Hi Lorcan. Just wondering car do you drive and is it standard.

Tbf colm the op could be driving this:


Or this:


He still shouldn't have got notice of 3 points for not having a front registration plate.

DaveyDave

If people are debating whether a reg plate is an offence or not then it's possible the Garda is wrong too. I was going through a checkpoint once and the Garda said I needed an accompanying driver on N plates. He was nice about it but it just goes to show even the traffic corps can be wrong about these things.

In my experience the Gardai are generally polite and friendly. It's possible he was power tripping and thinks he's always right or you possibly got off on the wrong foot though.

pa990

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/si/224/made/en/print