how to insulate around these recessed lights

johnnymorgan

Hi,

I have 5 recessed lights(spots) in my bedroom. They are led bulbs. I am adding extra insulation to my attic and have left a gap around like in the pics..

I was wondering is there a way I can improve that(that doesn't involve me buying new IC rated fittings).

Something like the third pic with the wooden frame? albeit I don't see how that acutally improves where I am as there is still air at top etc..

any help appreciated.

clintondaly

seems to be several options you can go with,have a look below

https://www.google.ie/search?q=insulation+cover+for+recessed+lights&rlz=1C1CHBD_enIE763IE763&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4YT9zePXAhWsD8AKHfDEAe0Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949

sbsquarepants

Sounds a bit cowboyish, but I've seen flowerpots used!
I'd go with ceramic over plastic!

homer911

I'm sure if you follow the guidance around these kind of products you will be fine for LED lights as they never get very hot
https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/insulated-light-covers/
https://www.recessedlightcover.com/

johnnymorgan

Thanks for the replies everyone.. Some of those products(the covers) are pretty pricey since I need 5 of them..

Can I construct one myself say from wood(as have tons of wood in the shed), ie build a box around it, box would have a cover as well. keep 3 - 4 inch around each side.. I could caulk/seal around the bottom edges then as well and cover the top of box with insulation.

Or how much of that is a no-no.. I understand that they need space for the heat to dissapate.. But those covers are also enclosing the light and often sealed to ground. so would a wooden box not do same trick..

As homer said they are LED so never get too hot and they would probably be on for a max of an hour at a time in winter mainly. In summer would never really need lights as its so bright.

I have only part of attic insulated(ongoing project when have time) so said I might as well stop and try and fix this issue before continuing.

Appreciate the help and replies.
Cheers,
J

johnnymorgan

http://www.downlightcoversdirect.ie/

That product would do the job and seems to be not to bad on the wallet..

johnnymorgan

Hi,

looking for a futher bit of info.. (I am leaning towards this product ) but the problem is that all my lights are up against the joists.. I have 6 to cover..

This product is 200(base)*150(top)*120(depth).. So I would have to cut the product with a scissors to make it fit against the joist.. and I guess seal all around the edges against the joist(plus around the base as well)..

My joists are 5 inches(so about 125) so should be that tiny bit higher than the container..

Any thoughts on this? I know lights are in wrong place and should be centered. I blame last owner for that ha

Cheers,
J

johnnymorgan

Nudge..

serox_21

I've replaced the bulbs with LEDs and covered the downlights housing with insulation(30 cm) in the attic. Lights are just warmer(can be touched with bare hand) after a few hours on. I have 8 spots. I think halogen ones will definitely burn after a while if covered with insulation.

johnnymorgan

Thanks serox,

mine are all led now as well.. Specifically I am asking about that product and the lights being against the joist. I am probably being overly cautious but that is no harm I guess?

J

serox_21

Maybe just add an extra layer of insulation on top of the gap. There is be plenty of empty space for heat to dissipate.

exaisle

I'm assuming you have GU10 downlighters...I used something like these..and I could overlay them with insulation safely...not overly hard on the pocket either...I think they cost me around €6 each because I bought about 60...

https://www.brightlightz.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/af097278c5db4767b0fe9bb92fe21690/b/r/brushed-chrome-downlight-2_1.jpg

bennyineire

B&Q defiantly have plastic cone type covers for this purpose.
I think a pack of 5 is something like a tenner.

I seen then there a few weeks back

johnnymorgan

hi exa,

that would seem the best perhaps, just replace all the fittings.. and they seem quite cheap. I had thought the fittings were expensive but its the same price as a cover so might work better..

exaisle

johnnymorgan wrote: »

hi exa,

that would seem the best perhaps, just replace all the fittings.. and they seem quite cheap. I had thought the fittings were expensive but its the same price as a cover so might work better..

If you shop around, get free postage to UK and use parcel motel, you'll probably get them reasonable enough..

johnnymorgan

Thanks exa. Those guys are quite reasonable and free uk is handy(parcel motel as you say)..

I attached a pic of my current set up from below. I quite like the look of the "dome" effect that light sits into(or more the wife likes it ).. Would the light not have a gap around it in that new fitting.. or would it sit snug to the outer white ring?

Thanks,
J

exaisle

The angle of the lights are adjustable within the inner ring (ie the inner ring and the bulb that sits in it can move). It sits quite snugly.

johnnymorgan

cool, Thanks exa, they are ip33 as well so should be fine as well as dont need for bathroom.

Thanks for help.
J

johnnymorgan

@exa,

actually those might not work, from looking at specs. they are 80 diameter. As my lights currently have an "eyeball" containing the light inside the outer ring. The overall ring is wider 100/105mm so If i bought them I imagine I would still have a hole in the ceiling around them ?

J

Stoner

You can get fittings that you can pull.the insulation right up to. 11 watt max. These are threads on the electrical forum about them.
Don't bother with flowers pots best to change the fitting imo.

Recessed fittings with the insulation cage

johnnymorgan

Stoner wrote: »

You can get fittings that you can pull.the insulation right up to. 11 watt max. These are threads on the electrical forum about them.
Don't bother with flowers pots best to change the fitting imo.

Recessed fittings with the insulation cage

Thanks stoner. Thats what im discussing above i think.. just trying to find a replacement fitting that will have same dimensions as my current one so no noticeable marks on ceiling..

C Lo

Hi,

I am doing a similar project myself and I am wondering what to do with lighting wiring. Insulate over or around? They are not spot lights

Stoner

You can get fittings that you can pull.the insulation right up to. 11 watt max. These are threads on the electrical forum about them.
Don't bother with flowers pots best to change the fitting imo.

Recessed fittings with the insulation cage

C Lo

Stoner wrote: »

You can get fittings that you can pull.the insulation right up to. 11 watt max. These are threads on the electrical forum about them.
Don't bother with flowers pots best to change the fitting imo.

Recessed fittings with the insulation cage

Are you talking about spot lights or non-spot lights?

tweek84

You could probably get some covers at your local electrical factors although they are probably more readily available in the U.K. As they are compulsory in some installations (I'm not too up on their regs) if using LEDS you would get away with insulation around the fitting once the fittings don't have transformers.
If your buying downlighters you can now buy downlighters that are sealed and fire rated very handy for these no passive house the downside is the bulbs aren't replaceable the whole fitting needs to be replaced

johnnymorgan

tweek84 wrote: »

You could probably get some covers at your local electrical factors although they are probably more readily available in the U.K. As they are compulsory in some installations (I'm not too up on their regs) if using LEDS you would get away with insulation around the fitting once the fittings don't have transformers.
If your buying downlighters you can now buy downlighters that are sealed and fire rated very handy for these no passive house the downside is the bulbs aren't replaceable the whole fitting needs to be replaced

What I love about boards, fifty different viewpoints. Can you point me to some documentation backing up what u say about leds, as in all my bulbs are leds without transformers, so according to you I can just cover them..

Fire rated units, can be got without bulbs to best of my knowledge as I have looked at many, just trying to find one of right dimensions..

But as you say if van be covered theres no point, but what are you basing this on???

J

tweek84

Past experience. I have turned down doing many a nixer because of gu10 downlighters when they were halogen the heat output was too much which I feared was dangerous and would lead to fires which it has. Leds don't have the same or anyway near heat output of halogens. Afaik I don't think there is any regulation about providing protection to downlighters in any irish installation which I think there should be if they are halogen.
I haven't seen any fire rated sealed down lighters that can have the bulbs changed but I will take your word on it i just have had suppliers provide samples of the sealed units obviously they are not ideal with all the smart bulbs that can be purchased now.

johnnymorgan

tweek84 wrote: »

Past experience. I have turned down doing many a nixer because of gu10 downlighters when they were halogen the heat output was too much which I feared was dangerous and would lead to fires which it has. Leds don't have the same or anyway near heat output of halogens. Afaik I don't think there is any regulation about providing protection to downlighters in any irish installation which I think there should be if they are halogen.
I haven't seen any fire rated sealed down lighters that can have the bulbs changed but I will take your word on it i just have had suppliers provide samples of the sealed units obviously they are not ideal with all the smart bulbs that can be purchased now.

Are you an electrician by trade?

https://www.brightlightz.co.uk/240v-mains-gu10-fire-rated-recessed-downlight-fittings-white-finish

Thats example of product (unless im wrong, its fired rated and bulbs are added)..?

Can you check the two pics I added here. Two views of a light. Ill happily cover if not a concern. All 5w leds in there now. Don't even be on that much, 1hr a day in winter id say..

J

tweek84

johnnymorgan wrote: »

Are you an electrician by trade?

https://www.brightlightz.co.uk/240v-mains-gu10-fire-rated-recessed-downlight-fittings-white-finish

Thats example of product (unless im wrong, its fired rated and bulbs are added)..?

Can you check the two pics I added here. Two views of a light. Ill happily cover if not a concern. All 5w leds in there now. Don't even be on that much, 1hr a day in winter id say..

J

Yes, 16 years in the trade recessed gu 10s have been a pet hate of mine for years.

The recessed lights i am thinking off are totally sealed (ideal for these passive houses) these look to be vented at the back.

I would be happy to cover them if you are using LEDs

johnnymorgan

tweek84 wrote: »

Yes, 16 years in the trade recessed gu 10s have been a pet hate of mine for years.

The recessed lights i am thinking off are totally sealed (ideal for these passive houses) these look to be vented at the back.

I would be happy to cover them if you are using LEDs

Ah they are still better than mr16 imho. I have enough of those around the house as well

Just to confirm, you would be happy to cover the ones I attached in the image in my last post. All my lights are up against the joist. The previous owner(muppet) put them there lol.

exaisle

johnnymorgan wrote: »

@exa,

actually those might not work, from looking at specs. they are 80 diameter. As my lights currently have an "eyeball" containing the light inside the outer ring. The overall ring is wider 100/105mm so If i bought them I imagine I would still have a hole in the ceiling around them ?

J

Ah, ok. I got up on a chair with a ruler....mine are about 95mm diameter. Not sure what size the hole is. However, I dare say you can find some with a wider ring..

johnnymorgan

Aye, After a good chunk of searching I think I can find some around 95/100 that would do the job I guess..

What do you think of what tweak said that with them being led that they are fine to cover the fitting. I had attached in post before your reply.. I quite like my lights, and would rather not replace in some ways ha.

SemperFidelis

I got plant pots from ikea for €1.25 each. The ugly ones get sold off cheap.

tweek84

johnnymorgan wrote: »

Ah they are still better than mr16 imho. I have enough of those around the house as well

Just to confirm, you would be happy to cover the ones I attached in the image in my last post. All my lights are up against the joist. The previous owner(muppet) put them there lol.

I'd insulate away like crazy, i will hopefully be doing mine in the next few weeks on my chest infection clears, i have the rolls of insulation in the attic waiting its one dirty annoying job the new insulation is not too bad it is the old stuff that gets me.

I would be concerned about using flower pots if you are not using LEDs as i doubt there is a fire rating on flower pots :D halogens can get very very hot alot of the instances where a recessed light had caught fire wasn't from the insulation but from the junction boxes/electrical connections lying on top of the lights after installation or after some one moved them by an accident when getting the christmas decorations etc. this doesn't really apply to you johnny as you have an older junction box which is more resistant to heat (i think they are made from bakelite) but afaik they are outlawed in new installations due to the electrical connection point (only one screw) nothing to worry about once the connections are 100% with no loose cores or strands of copper.

johnnymorgan

tweek84 wrote: »

I'd insulate away like crazy, i will hopefully be doing mine in the next few weeks on my chest infection clears, i have the rolls of insulation in the attic waiting its one dirty annoying job the new insulation is not too bad it is the old stuff that gets me.

I would be concerned about using flower pots if you are not using LEDs as i doubt there is a fire rating on flower pots :D halogens can get very very hot alot of the instances where a recessed light had caught fire wasn't from the insulation but from the junction boxes/electrical connections lying on top of the lights after installation or after some one moved them by an accident when getting the christmas decorations etc. this doesn't really apply to you johnny as you have an older junction box which is more resistant to heat (i think they are made from bakelite) but afaik they are outlawed in new installations due to the electrical connection point (only one screw) nothing to worry about once the connections are 100% with no loose cores or strands of copper.

Ha yeah was definitely not putting flower pots over them anyway.. Was goign to replace whole fixture.. I have looked at each fitting and there are no loose wires lying around.. The junction box is much different to the new models alright, but they seem fairly sturdy and wires are not loose in them etc.. I could send you a couple of pics of the other lights(via pm) if you dotn mind, just to cast an expert eye over before I go back to the sh*tty job of insulation ha

tweek84

Yeah no hassle send them on and i will have a look.

C Lo

I am doing same job and I am wondering if shower cables need to be covered in the same way?

johnnymorgan

tweek84 wrote: »

Yeah no hassle send them on and i will have a look.

Thanks Tweek,

sticking here, as tried to pm you, but couldnt seem to attach images there(could be my lack of boards knowledge mind )

stuck pic of four of the lights. Havent uncovered the other two in the attic yet, but I assume they will be much the same set up.

Let me know what you think.

cheers,
J

tweek84

C Lo wrote: »

I am doing same job and I am wondering if shower cables need to be covered in the same way?

You can cover the cables 9.5kw is circa 40 amps 10sq or 16sq is more than capable of handling the ampage once all the connections are secure and the run isn't coming from your neighbours house

tweek84

johnnymorgan wrote: »

Thanks Tweek,

sticking here, as tried to pm you, but couldnt seem to attach images there(could be my lack of boards knowledge mind )

stuck pic of four of the lights. Havent uncovered the other two in the attic yet, but I assume they will be much the same set up.

Let me know what you think.

cheers,
J

Try to position the cables like they are shown in image 2 before covering just to be on the safe side, and go crazy with insulation.Don't forget your tyvek suit, gloves and dust mask:mad::mad: