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New build houses and air vents

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2

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    #32
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    garancafan wrote: »
    Would be grateful for a reference to these regulations.

    On phone so just google Technical Guidance Document Part F.
    They are a free download from the department of environment. They are our minimum building standards/Regulations/codes


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    #33
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    garancafan wrote: »

    Would be grateful for a reference to these regulations.

    They are all available on environ.ie
    Got to building standards or technical guidance documents and you will see them all there. The different parts refer to differing aspects of building
    Part B fire
    Part F ventilation
    PART L energy
    Part M disability access and use.

    These would be the main ones of interest for a casual observer.
    The regs have been updated over the years. Old versions are also on the site to view. You would need to know age of property to assess which version of the regs apply.
    Ventilation is a requirement however the current regs make it pretty difficult to comply without using a heat recovery and ventilation system. This is why open vents are becoming a thing of past and I'm not sorry. The mechanic system with heat recovery gives a controlled air change rate and also uses a heat exchanger to run the fresh incoming air past the warm dirty air to create a very efficient system.


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    #34
    ArnieSilvia
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭ArnieSilvia


    This is shocking to read frankly, what's the point of an airtight house with vents like these and calling it A2 house??? This is very misleading as my house is A2 (IIRC) but has forced ventilation system with heat exchanger, no draught whatsoever. Always warm. Heating bill is so small that I don't even know exactly.
    Good to know then that an A2 house nowadays doesn't have to be a passive house at all !!!

    I'm renting a room temporarily in a 600000 euro worth of decaying, underivested 7 bed MC Mansion circa 10 years old with shocking build quality and terrible thermal efficiency in comparison to my 3yo house. I would never swap them. Constant temperature is a very important measure of comfort as well as making house more efficient in terms of use of space and features (home office, home cinema, audio system, convenient storage space etc)


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    #35
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,829 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You need vents in all rooms.however in rooms that are prone to breezes or excessively noisey install a draught damper inside the vent itself.

    These come in the form of either a plastic or metal shaped cowling which diffuses the air flow.


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    #36
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ArnieSilvia wrote: »
    This is shocking to read frankly, what's the point of an airtight house with vents like these and calling it A2 house??? This is very misleading as my house is A2 (IIRC) but has forced ventilation system with heat exchanger, no draught whatsoever. Always warm. Heating bill is so small that I don't even know exactly.
    Good to know then that an A2 house nowadays doesn't have to be a passive house at all !!!

    I'm renting a room temporarily in a 600000 euro worth of decaying, underivested 7 bed MC Mansion circa 10 years old with shocking build quality and terrible thermal efficiency in comparison to my 3yo house. I would never swap them. Constant temperature is a very important measure of comfort as well as making house more efficient in terms of use of space and features (home office, home cinema, audio system, convenient storage space etc)

    A2 is just a figure from the BER/DEAP calculation.
    You don’t have an air tight house. Just a low rate of air changes per hour.


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    #37
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,829 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    On a side note it's quite amusing that some folks appear to think you can install triple glazing fully insulate and draught proof and then heat a house and not provide airflow into and out of it. It's a necessity!


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    #38
    garancafan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭garancafan


    Thank you kceire and mickdw.


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    #39
    garancafan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭garancafan


    listermint wrote: »
    On a side note it's quite amusing that some folks appear to think you can install triple glazing fully insulate and draught proof and then heat a house and not provide airflow into and out of it. It's a necessity!
    I'm pleased to have been a source of amusement for you.


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    #40
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,042 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Ignore combustion appliances for a second and think about humidity. If you had no ventilation then human activity (washing, breathing, sweating) would quickly push humidity to 100% and then condensation would form everywhere. The water would leave your body and end up dripping from the walls. Then you'd be breathing in mould spores and develop respiratory and skin problems.

    Heating fresh air once doesn't take much energy, even if that air is changed fairly frequently. What takes energy is keeping that air warm in rooms with cold surfaces of windows, walls, ceilings and floors. They're like anti radiators. That's what the insulation is for, to passively raise the temperature of those surfaces.


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    #41
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Thats quite the education. Thanks all.


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    #42
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,909 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Thanks all who actually knew what they were talking about and not trying to tell me what did and didnt exist in the house i was sitting in typing :P

    Kceire especially, you are a fountain of knowledge on this stuff, fair play.

    I said about blocking them up in jest, but practically, is there anything i can do to lessen the impact of a cold breeze? Someone mentioned a sponge, bad idea as well i assume?


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    #43
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,852 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    OP - you can buy heat recovery wall vents to replace the open vents, but it's probably not cheap to do the whole house. You can also buy better open vents that are designed to minimise drafts using internal baffles - this might be cheaper. what you currently have sounds like just a hole in the wall with a grill on either end.

    This is a failure of the building or BER regulations so - you shouldn't be able to sell a house as A2 (implication being that it is warm), when it has big holes in the wall of every room. HRV should be a requirement - this is builders being cheap/lazy, but the regs should prevent it.


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    #44
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,909 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    loyatemu wrote: »
    OP - you can buy heat recovery wall vents to replace the open vents, but it's probably not cheap to do the whole house. You can also buy better open vents that are designed to minimise drafts using internal baffles - this might be cheaper. what you currently have sounds like just a hole in the wall with a grill on either end.

    This is a failure of the building or BER regulations so - you shouldn't be able to sell a house as A2 (implication being that it is warm), when it has big holes in the wall of every room. HRV should be a requirement - this is builders being cheap/lazy, but the regs should prevent it.

    thanks and i agree,

    ill look into the heat recovery wall vents, do you have a link to the open vents with baffles?


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    #45
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,852 ✭✭✭daheff


    Cyrus wrote: »
    er

    anyone with a new build house care to comment, any of them i have been in have the same thing

    I have a new house (in the last 18mths). Its not an 'airtight' house. We have loads of airvents. There are even trickle vents in the windows.


    House is quite warm considering (and a lot warmer than the last house).


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    #46
    JoeyJJ
    Registered Users Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭JoeyJJ


    Great thread. I could do with some dampners in my vents at the front of the house to reduce noise (windy at night) I'm not very handy. I replaced the vents previously with ones that can be closed which helped as i left half way open however as plastic vent covers they let some through even when closed which I never do as fresh air is required for circulation. General handy man prob able to fit. I could do with an electric one in bathroom anyway.


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    #47
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭The Ging and I


    I think the biggest problem with ventilation is its location. Why put it high on a wall where naturally all your heat escapes. I would prefer it above skirting level.
    I had to replace on as I had a gale coming through it. I found the vent cover was angled into the prevailing wind.Being on a noisy busy coast road I ordered a sound reducing one which can be closed if need be.


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    #48
    mikeysmith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭mikeysmith


    The Ging and I wrote: »
    I think the biggest problem with ventilation is its location. Why put it high on a wall where naturally all your heat escapes. I would prefer it above skirting level.
    I had to replace on as I had a gale coming through it. I found the vent cover was angled into the prevailing wind.Being on a noisy busy coast road I ordered a sound reducing one which can be closed if need be.

    I'm guessing they're up high to drive the moist air out


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    #49
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,909 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    daheff wrote: »
    I have a new house (in the last 18mths). Its not an 'airtight' house. We have loads of airvents. There are even trickle vents in the windows.


    House is quite warm considering (and a lot warmer than the last house).

    the point i made was that the house was airtight BEFORE the vents were put in, the same as you i also have loads, one in nearly every room.

    house is warm but when its cold outside and there is a wind you will feel it thro the vent.


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    #50
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,237 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Cyrus wrote: »
    the point i made was that the house was airtight BEFORE the vents were put in, the same as you i also have loads, one in nearly every room.

    house is warm but when its cold outside and there is a wind you will feel it thro the vent.

    You need the vent to get some oxygen! Surprised that in a high end house they didn’t fit a heat recovery system and regulate the airflow.


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    #51
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,909 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Marcusm wrote: »
    You need the vent to get some oxygen! Surprised that in a high end house they didn’t fit a heat recovery system and regulate the airflow.

    so am i now as well

    they spent money on a lot of stuff, proper wiring around the house, the kitchen, the doors and handles etc, bathrooms, but this was done as cheaply as they could obviously :mad:


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    #52
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    loyatemu wrote: »
    OP - you can buy heat recovery wall vents to replace the open vents, but it's probably not cheap to do the whole house. You can also buy better open vents that are designed to minimise drafts using internal baffles - this might be cheaper. what you currently have sounds like just a hole in the wall with a grill on either end.

    This is a failure of the building or BER regulations so - you shouldn't be able to sell a house as A2 (implication being that it is warm), when it has big holes in the wall of every room. HRV should be a requirement - this is builders being cheap/lazy, but the regs should prevent it.

    but if they are the vents that you can slide open, couldnt they just be opened like 10-20%?


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    #53
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,852 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Cyrus wrote: »
    thanks and i agree,

    ill look into the heat recovery wall vents, do you have a link to the open vents with baffles?

    anti-draught vents here: http://www.iconbp.ie/anti-draught-wall-vents/

    HRV vent here (not cheap): https://renergise.ie/shop/energy-saving-products/single-room-heat-recovery-ventilation/


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    #54
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,829 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Was also looking into Humidity activated outlets / inlets, company in Cork manufacturers them

    https://www.aereco.ie/product/eht/

    Have not pulled the trigger yet as going through renovation.


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    #55
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,980 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    We bought a new build in 2015 and we don't have any of those vents you showed picture of cyrus but we do have trickle vents on all the windows that can be opened and closed.

    The builders recommended keeping them open all the time but I only do that in summer. in winter I close 50% of the downstairs ones.

    House heats nicely but you can still feel draught downstairs by the vents but would rather spend money heating house and have proper air circulating.


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    #56
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    I lined the vent pipe in one room with thin foam and inserted 3 foam baffles also, more for noise dampening than anything, but also so i didnt block up the vent completely.

    Is this a bad idea?


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    #57
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    fret_wimp2 wrote: »
    I lined the vent pipe in one room with thin foam and inserted 3 foam baffles also, more for noise dampening than anything, but also so i didnt block up the vent completely.

    Is this a bad idea?

    Yes


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    #58
    j timber
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭j timber


    I am reading this thread with great interest..i have a timber frame house built in 2011. There is trickle vents on the windows which are open in the bedrooms and bathrooms mostly. In the last few weeks there has been a massive amount of condensation on all the upstairs windows but especially the tilt n turn windows..The colder it is outside the worse on the windows.
    We have an industrial fan in en suite bathroom for the power shower so I am at a loss as to where the moisture is coming from....


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    #59
    Jakey Rolling
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    j timber wrote:
    We have an industrial fan in en suite bathroom for the power shower so I am at a loss as to where the moisture is coming from....

    Humans! Each person will be breathing out upwards of 0.2 litres water overnight, not to mention any night sweats or energetic bedroom activities. Even that small amount will find it's way to cold surfaces and condense if there is no effective airflow.

    Also washing and cooking in the house will be a major source of humidity.

    Those aerco demand controlled (humidity or co2) controlled ventilation would be my choice if building now. Ventilation per room, only when it is needed. I installed whole house MHRV, it does the job but I can see maintenance and replacement being costly down the line.

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



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    #60
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,969 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    j timber wrote: »
    I am reading this thread with great interest..i have a timber frame house built in 2011. There is trickle vents on the windows which are open in the bedrooms and bathrooms mostly. In the last few weeks there has been a massive amount of condensation on all the upstairs windows but especially the tilt n turn windows..The colder it is outside the worse on the windows.
    We have an industrial fan in en suite bathroom for the power shower so I am at a loss as to where the moisture is coming from....

    Even an industrial fan wont remove all the moisture from a power shower. My electrician was telling me he installed a humidity fan in a bathroom. The sensor would keep the fan running till all moisture was gone. He had to take it out a few days later as it ran for hours after a shower. They couldn't sleep .


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    #61
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    Thanks for bringing this up op.
    We live in a rented house which is around 12 yrs old I believe. We have an open fire and OFCH. There are vents in the bedrooms upstairs, and the dining room downstairs, but none in the living room where open fire is. The result of this is that the suction of the chimney with fire lit draws air from the vents upstairs and in other rooms. This gives a constant cold fairly strong draft through the house. The living room door when pushed to will blow back open again, when you push the door to you can feel the resistance of the air blowing through. This makes the house very difficult to keep warm, impossible really. If we put the central heating on less than an hour after it is turned off it is back to how it was before. There is no heat retention at all.
    Any recommendations?


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