Daniel Bryan - Will he ever wrestle again Thread.

Lord TSC

31 posts moved from the news thread to here so ye can continue the discussion without going off topic from "News".

Bounty Hunter

Lord TSC wrote: »

31 posts moved from the news thread to here so ye can continue the discussion without going off topic from "News".

That's mod of the year stuff right there :pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

leggo wrote: »

There you go again...where did I say ANYTHING about Vince being afraid Bryan will get over?!!? You're literally imagining **** to argue against now. That's not even close to the point I'm making. And I did ask you nicely before to please take time to understand my point before posting again.

If this is a reference to my final paragraph, it was a general summation of the situation. I can assure you I would prefer to leave the imaginary notions to others!

leggo wrote:

Of course you can cite someone as a credible source when they're doing what they do well. If we're talking future booking plans? Meltzer is your main man, that's his domain and he has years of a track record of getting it right there. If we're talking health? He's the guy who didn't even bother to Google what bipolar was before ruining JBL's career with accusations that actually aren't possibly true. It's like how a football journalist can be good at transfer gossip because they've got great sources but awful at analysing tactics because they've never been in a position where what they thought about tactics meant ****, it's really not that complicated.

One of his best friends is an expert in the study of the brain. That doesn't count?

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/898630335042265093

You earlier said you had become a bit of an expert studying bipolar issues because someone close to you had experienced it, so why can't that be applicable to him, particularly if his thoughts are being run through an expert that he knows? I mean think about it, he will talk to a source in wrestling and report on it - that's okay. We all accept that as grand apparently. That can be posted in the Wrestling News thread and be deemed hunky dory. But posting him citing sources from his contacts in the health industry doesn't count and must be ridiculed?!

leggo wrote:

Vince can't 'circumvent' his doctor because the doctor is not in a position of authority over Vince, the doctor advises Vince and Vince makes the final call. And while it's adorable that you say stuff like "Vince, Bryan, Dave and I feel this way" like you're a part of the conversation, you're literally the only person in said conversation OR on boards who seems to not understand that power dynamic.

Look, the doctor has the final call which is an authority granted to him from Vince. Cheap digs don't change the reality of the situation. I don't need to be part of any conversation, I simply need to be able to read. Meltzer was asked this question again within the last 24 hours

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/934301188492746752

The question: "does the WWE ever clear Bryan? They know how big of a crowd fav he is, hard to see them leaving $$$ w him and someone like The Miz on the table. But maybe they do."

His answer: "It's up to Dr. Maroon, it's not a money issue."

His words, not mine.

leggo wrote:

Once again: Dr Maroon does not run WWE. If Vince said tomorrow that he was happy with another doctor's findings and Bryan could now wrestle, Dr Maroon wouldn't run in waving a piece of paper causing everyone else to stop what they're doing and say "Sorry Vince, but the doc said..." I know you read a tweet where Meltzer said it's Maroon's call, not Vince's, but Meltzer was not reporting there that Maroon now had more authority than Vince in WWE now. That's not what he meant. Nobody thinks that except you apparently and it's extraordinary how you keep making that point tbh.

We've been over this. Vince can't do that because of the lawsuit.

leggo wrote:

When Meltzer makes arguments about WWE's legal tactics re the concussion lawsuit: that's his opinion! He's not a lawyer, he's never won a legal case in his life, and his opinion can be wrong. This is the same man who claimed that Kenny Omega was a bigger draw than John Cena on Twitter a few weeks ago then deleted the tweets when his followers all made fun of him. Vince's lawyer could ring him up and say "We can make the Bryan thing work by doing X, Y and Z..." Because Dave is a wrestling journalist (close enough to the bottom rung of journalism btw, right between being a golf journalist and reporting about the cutest puppy at a dog show) and not a lawyer, and he doesn't do basic research into other elements of his stories (see bipolar), he's at a loss to know if this is possible. He's just regurgitating what one source told him ad nauseum.

Of course he can be wrong. No one suggested he was omnipotent from what can I see. But the difficulty for me is when you are quite happy to accept his knowledge when a wrestling source of his tells him, for example, why a certain wrestler won't get over or the planned finish of a match, and yet you WON'T accept him as a source of knowledge when his close contacts in the field of brain science tells him something. You have subsequently explained why you don't trust him on medical matters because you soured on him over his discussion of bipolar issues. That's fine, it's your view, but I'm going to need more than that to discount his narrative which as far as I can see has not been shown to be inaccurate.

By the way, he never suggested Omega was a bigger draw than Cena. I followed the discussion. He was trying to suggest because Omega's name being added to a show in the States had caused a big spike in tickets that Omega was now comparable in drawing power to Cena. I too thought this was a pretty desperate claim because Omega is geared towards a much smaller demographic. That's one occasion I have disagreed with him and I assure you I don't take Meltzer's word as sacrosanct. I disagree with him on plenty of things.

But again I return to my previous point, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I see no basis for him being wrong on his reporting of the Bryan issue, so if someone wants to claim they have debunked the narrative then they are going to have to do more than link to a post that offers no evidence to the contrary besides wildly unsubstantiated theories.

leggo

We're going around in circles and pretty much just repeating the same points at this stage. I think it's safe to say we disagree and likely won't ever agree on this (I don't have the energy or vocabulary to repeat myself in another way), at least until Bryan either wrestles in WWE or elsewhere, which will happen in 2018 by all available evidence.

The last thing I'll say is that it's his responsibility to report the facts. Him reporting this as just a lawsuit issue isn't reporting what the issue here is with concussions. Fans don't understand that and I think it's because he doesn't understand that. I can't get inside his brain and show you proof of him not understanding because you can't prove a negative. But regardless of whether or not his friend is a concussion expert, wrestling fans by and large don't understand why it's so important that Bryan can't wrestle. This gives rise to conspiracy theories like you mention (that I did not suggest myself) such as "Vince resents Bryan's success and won't let him wrestle." I'd argue that fans even still wanting Bryan to wrestle and thinking WWE should clear him is enough.

His job is literally to inform people of the relevant facts to the best of his ability. As the leading source in this story, who else is to blame when the majority of people don't understand what the main issue is? Now I can't prove if it's because he doesn't understand it himself or if it's because he's keeping it a secret for some reason...but it's not out there. I feel like I'm the only one talking about him potentially being a walking Benoit case already, and I don't know anyone involved in the story plus my knowledge of concussions is literally what I've taught myself. That's proof alone to me that he's failed at his job in this instance (and succeeded on many others, I don't hate the guy and just today defended him on my business Twitter account sure).

I'm glad we finally agree that Dr Maroon isn't in charge though, I hear he's a **** booker.

Necro

leggo wrote:

His job is literally to inform people of the relevant facts to the best of his ability. As the leading source in this story, who else is to blame when the majority of people don't understand what the main issue is? Now I can't prove if it's because he doesn't understand it himself or if it's because he's keeping it a secret for some reason...but it's not out there. I feel like I'm the only one talking about him potentially being a walking Benoit case already, and I don't know anyone involved in the story plus my knowledge of concussions is literally what I've taught myself. That's proof alone to me that he's failed at his job in this instance (and succeeded on many others, I don't hate the guy and just today defended him on my business Twitter account sure).

And the bolded part up above is why I'm not sure if DB should wrestle again.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see him back doing what he loves, we all do. There are MEGA money matches on the table in WWE alone if he were to come back. AJ, Lesnar, Miz, Shane just to name a few.

BUT. If we then wake up 10 years, less/more, whatever to read Bryan had a psychotic break to the par of he who shall not be named it's something pro wrestling as a whole may never recover from.

We really do not know the trauma people like Bryan etc put on themselves with their high impact styles and in particular the damage to their brains. We may never know.

The question that has to be asked, and I say this as a fan regardless is, do we want to find out just for the sake of another few years of DB? Personally for me it's a no.

We miss him. We want him back. But for his own sake, and potentially, pro wrestling's sake, maybe it is better he doesn't.

DM_7

The Benoit case is extreme.

Bryan's case is just health. His individual health as he gets older. The Brain injuries that are genuine worries, can't be treated, the cause can be treated in the sense that he can be removed from further harms way. Just like Edge for different but no less important reasons.

Bryan's history is scary and I am glad he is not active right now.

If he does wrestle again, as its a worked match so it should be possible for him to do it relatively safely. Hope he stays well away from the hard hitting matches if he ever returns to the ring. A repeat of him headbutting people or getting thrown around is a big NO!

Omackeral

Necrominus wrote: »

We miss him. We want him back. But for his own sake, and potentially, pro wrestling's sake, maybe it is better he doesn't.

Exactly. He has a beautiful wife, a young daughter and a cushy job in the business he loves. Whatever about the Benoit scenario, I'd hate to see him go the way of another similar performer in the Dynamite Kid. Very similar style and in-ring moveset. I say leave DB as he is. He owes us nothing and his WrestleMania 30 arc is among one of the most organic and real stories ever told, leave it like that.

Monokne

Bryan WANTS to wrestle. Wants of fans are immaterial here. If he has spoken to enough doctors and feels with the information he obtains that it is not a problem for him to wrestle and his wife supports him in that, then so be it. It is his life. He may not be able to do it for Vince but he would be just as happy wherever he goes.

There are no doubt many wrestlers in as bad or worse condition than Bryan under WWE's. The difference is they didn't tell WWE about post concussion seizures like Bryan did. Does anyone really think that Dreamer & Bubba who were working there last year haven't had their bells rung numerous times?

There is talk of a test that would prove CTE in living people at the moment. Such a thing would be industry changing. Would not shock me if more than half of their roster has it.

leggo

The thing is: while the Benoit case is by all accounts extreme (as in I'm not saying Bryan will go murder his wife and child), it's not isolated at all in terms of horrific endings. There was an NFL player who ended up shooting himself in the chest to kill himself but leave his brain able to be studied because of the misery of living with CTE, there was another who went to his training facility with a gun and murdered several others before turning it on himself...this messes people up in a serious way like, to the point they don't want to live anymore or their brain is so fried they end up doing completely insane things.

From a health perspective, obviously we want there to be a medical breakthrough in being able to diagnose and eventually treat it. The flip side of that is that, once we have this knowledge, the question of whether it's actually humane to do stuff like professional wrestling and American football will come into question. Wrestling may be able to survive a devastating fallout because its controlled nature means it can adjust, but football is seriously up for the chop. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I feel that 100-200 years from now people won't be able to believe we considered that kind of barbarism entertainment, kind of like how we think of Roman gladiators today.

Necro

Yeah I suppose my hyperbole seems extreme but as Omackeral said it's obvious what is causing the damage. Dynamite Kid.
Benoit.
Bryan.

All used a similar manoeuvre and all to varying degrees have suffered as a result. Can't be coincidental.

Rjd2

If he does decide to wrestle again for whoever, I just hope he is a little more sensible than last time when he came back to the WWE he was taking absurd bumps in throwaway matches. The fear for me, is he might consider wrestling a safe style cheating the fans.

Monokne

You hope he will work a more sensible style...

But you don't want him to wrestle a safe style because it's 'cheating the fans'.

I feel like you didn't think this through or there's a major typo somewhere!

DM_7

Monokne wrote: »

You hope he will work a more sensible style...

But you don't want him to wrestle a safe style because it's 'cheating the fans'.

I feel like you didn't think this through or there's a major typo somewhere!

Poster wants Bryan to work safe but worries that Bryan won't work safe because Bryan might think a safer in ring style would cheat fans.

Autochange

Why wouldnt he? Is he injured or something

Mr.Nice Guy

Rjd2 wrote: »

If he does decide to wrestle again for whoever, I just hope he is a little more sensible than last time when he came back to the WWE he was taking absurd bumps in throwaway matches. The fear for me, is he might consider wrestling a safe style cheating the fans.

I have the same concerns. I'd worry if he's on a show that has a strong undercard, and he is in the main event spot, he'll do a few of his spots which have the fans chanting "you've still got it", and then it's a question of does he have the discipline to stick to a safer style and stop himself taking those mad bumps or is he going to get swept up in the moment and return to his old style?

sky88

A huge fear for me is ill see news hes done permanent damage too himself when he goes back wrestling. When i read his book his love of the strong style rang through for me and youd worry that he would try and top sonething hes seen.

leggo

Strong style in itself has a whole list of concerns. As much as I love Japanese wrestling, that's something that needs an intervention fast, but there's neither a company with the size/corporate concerns of WWE or the culture in place to see anything done fast about it. Look at what happened Shibata this year and it hasn't changed a thing.

Monokne

DM_7 wrote: »

Poster wants Bryan to work safe but worries that Bryan won't work safe because Bryan might think a safer in ring style would cheat fans.

Gracias