Being chased for a debt that's not mine.

Soulseeker333

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone can advise me. I've been onto Virgin Media and Comreg....neither could help.

I signed up for VM back in June. They sent out a package to the address, i wasnt there to sign for it but one box arrived and was signed for by another tenant.They sent an engineer out and told me that no I couldn't get their service. Fair enough! I arranged for the box that we never opened because it wasn't installed to be collected. When the courier took the package he asked where the other one was and we said that's all we received can you take note of that. Yes he told us.

Throughout July and August I received calls from both VM and a debt collecting company. I rang VM and they told me not to worry they'd wipe it from the system. I had to ring numerous times about this and get passed from operator to operator. I finally received a voicemail from a manager to confirm it had been sorted apologies etc.

Fast forward 6 months and I'm being harassed by CMOS and High j Ward solicitors telling me its my last chance to pay before court but I can't bring myself to pay for something I had no hand in even if it is only 175e.

I have no paper trail up until October where I refused to talk to VM unless it was through email. They're refusing to get rid of my debt and insist I pay. How is this fair?? I haven't a leg to stand on in court with no paper trail and voicemails disappearing after 30days. Ive asked a transcript of my calls.

Can they take me to court? I'm losing sleep over something I have nothing to do with!

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

P. Breathnach

I don't think that you have anything to worry about. Any contract that you had with them became void when they were unable to provide you with a service.

I presume that there was an error about the second packet, and that they are failing to amend their own records. The most important thing is that they cannot prove anything was delivered to you.

Don't worry about "not having a leg to stand on". The burden is on Virgin to prove that you owe them something, and they don't have that proof.

Soulseeker333

Thank you P. Breathnach. Glad to hear it's them who have to prove it. Would court increase the money I'd have to pay if it sided with VM?

They're not backing down at all and this has been going on months which makes me feel like I will get in trouble if they won't let it go. Id be hoping to get a mortgage in the next year or two and fear this will affect my credit rating.

Has anyone ever had this problem with Virgin Media? If so how did it pan out?

my3cents

Soulseeker333 wrote: »

Thank you P. Breathnach. Glad to hear it's them who have to prove it. Would court increase the money I'd have to pay if it sided with VM?

They're not backing down at all and this has been going on months which makes me feel like I will get in trouble if they won't let it go. Id be hoping to get a mortgage in the next year or two and fear this will affect my credit rating.

Has anyone ever had this problem with Virgin Media? If so how did it pan out?

It will never get to court for that amount. Although there are plenty that post here that will try and tell you otherwise.

They are in business to harass you into paying and by the sound of it its starting to work on you.

There is no proof that the item was delivered to you and obviously no one has a document signed by you to say to took delivery of the SECOND box.

If you want to be proactive you can write to them asking exactly what information they have because you believe they have no proof. Under the data laws they have to provide that info (there is a small fee they can apply for supplying the information but iirc its only about €6). At the same time point out that if they fail to provide any evidence to make a court case that any further communication will be considered harassment and dealt with accordingly.

If it was me I'd be delighted to say see you in court, because they have no evidence, probably don't have access to any information other than VM saying you owe them money and won't waste money taking court action for a small amount.

P. Breathnach

It's fairly common in cases of this sort that the court orders the loser to pay the legal costs of the other party. My guess is that if this went to court, you would win easily, but there is always a risk that the judge might see things differently. So I understand your concern.

It looks to me as if Virgin and their solicitors are acting like bullies, and that you see yourself as being in a vulnerable position.

That's the sort of behaviour that gets my dander up, and if they behaved like that with me I'd go to war with them. But I think that I am good at that sort of thing, and not everybody is comfortable fighting against large businesses. What I would do is write to Hugh J Ward saying: (a) I do not believe that I owe Virgin anything; (b) I do not have any item belonging to them; (c) if you can prove otherwise, please show me that proof and I will acknowledge my mistake and pay the amount demanded; (d) if you do anything that impacts on my credit rating, I will seek full legal remedy, including possibly claiming compensation.

[I am a Virgin customer, and have had no problems with them. It happens that I have a box of theirs that they failed to collect, and I think they have forgotten about it.]

P. Breathnach

my3cents posted while I was thinking and typing. We are not a mile apart.

I hope that you feel strong enough to fight this.

Soulseeker333

It is getting to me and yesterday i was starting to consider just paying the money so they'd leave me alone. Ive never had any debt before and am very respectful of contracts i make with companies. But this is beyond belief. And after these responses I'm feeling more positive about my situation.

They've closed my complaint so I can't communicate with them about it, they stopped replying. Comreg said they called and asked them to stop but VM said they won't waive the charge and Comreg said they won't do anything else. I've requested transcript of the calls is the information they have about the delivery something else I can request?

Thanks so much!!

Soulseeker333

I really appreciate your practical advice. I'm going write to Hugh J Solicitors. I want to do all I can to strengthen my case if it does go that far. I will go to court rather than pay just because I feel it's such an injustice. I can't imagine many judges would side with them.

Thanks again you've no idea the weight you've taken off my shoulders.

stimpson

Virgin Media have a forum here: https://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1546

I suggest posting on it. Public shaming works.

My mother in law had issues with both Eir and Vodaphone. It took a few weeks, but opening threads on their respective forums here eventually sorted it. I found that they would reply by PM. I would just post straight back into the thread. Keep it public. Stick to the facts. PM them the personal information. Keep everything else public. Post on your thread daily.

They will ignore your requests for a transcript until you request it under the data protection act: https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Making-an-Access-Request/963.htm

RobbingBandit

These guys are cowboys I got a few bills in my door addressed to someone else returned them to virgin now on Monday I've gotten a debt collector agency letter to the same person again has gone back to them borderline harassment at this stage. Good luck op hope you get sorted.

stimpson

I’ve dug out my threads for some light reading.

Eir took almost 4 months to sort it out

https://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2056834307/1

Vodafone was over a month:

https://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2056895700/3

Be polite but firm (sarcasm also helps).

Soulseeker333

stimpson wrote: »

Virgin Media have a forum here: https://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1546

I suggest posting on it. Public shaming works.

My mother in law had issues with both Eir and Vodaphone. It took a few weeks, but opening threads on their respective forums here eventually sorted it. I found that they would reply by PM. I would just post straight back into the thread. Keep it public. Stick to the facts. PM them the personal information. Keep everything else public. Post on your thread daily.

They will ignore your requests for a transcript until you request it under the data protection act: https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Making-an-Access-Request/963.htm

Thanks for the tip on requesting it under the data protection act.

I've copied the message into the forum you suggested too so fingers crossed.

Thanks again!!

MOH

Pre-Virgin, UPC lost my account when I moved house, insisted I'd never had an account with them, and wanted to charge me a connection fee for a new account, so I switched to Sky. They then started sending me threatening letters looking for the return of a digital set-top box when I'd never even had digital TV with them. Sent a fairly angry letter to their head of customer services and never heard any more from them.

flaneur

Virgin Media Ireland are also not just any company, they are regulated by ComReg.
I would suggest you start by making a formal complaint to Virgin Media and following up with a call to ComReg.

Also a quick call to the Data Protection Commissioner wouldn't be a bad idea. They are clearly holding data on you that is erroneous.

I would also point out very clearly in any communication to VM that you may consider seeking legal advice.

Also tell that debt collector to send you on proof of the existence of a contract.

stronglikebull

Don't even engage with the debt collector. In fact, if they contact you again be as abusive and abrupt as you can possibly be. These scum deserve nothing more for this kind of harassment.

In fairness to you, you've stuck to it a lot longer than I would have. VM are terrible for customer service. They're as bad an ISP as we've ever had in this country, and I had a BT Ireland account that I couldn't get them to stop harassing me about for nearly a year. Ignore them, and it'll go away. No way they can go to court over something you've already written to them about, that a manager there has said was resolved, and when you had never even received service on. Even if they did, they'd pay a fortune to be made look like the idiots they are.

lostie815

Something similar happened me I was a VM customer but they kept sending me someone else's bill for four months and insisted I paid it took four months to sort out not even a sorry from them.

jimbobaloobob

I had a similar situation with them picking up a box from me few years ago. Courier collected it but VM said they never received. I was bombarded for months but refused to give.
Then i called them out on it on Twitter and hash-tagged them to it. Immediately their PR team got in touch through private messages and sorted it out after i threatened to take legal action for the continuing phone calls (up on 2-3 per week).
Only thing that got me anywhere was asking them to stop harassing me though contact on their twitter account.

In your case i wouldn't worry, some of the earlier posters have given you sound advice.

flaneur

Honestly might be worth talking to a local solicitor. You’d never know, you might be able to chase them.
It seems like an extremely annoying situation and one that is not of your making.

GerardKeating

RobbingBandit wrote: »

These guys are cowboys I got a few bills in my door addressed to someone else returned them to virgin now on Monday I've gotten a debt collector agency letter to the same person again has gone back to them borderline harassment at this stage. Good luck op hope you get sorted.

Isn't "demanding money with menaces" a criminal offense ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

flaneur

There really needs to be proper regulation of this kind of activity.

A corporate body threatening spurious legal action against an individual, when they know they've no case and wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court, is just using the threat of the legal system as a way of extracting money.

That should be illegal and should have penalties as it's basically using the threat of court to get people to pay bills they may not owe at all.

Prune Tracy

RobbingBandit wrote: »

These guys are cowboys I got a few bills in my door addressed to someone else returned them to virgin now on Monday I've gotten a debt collector agency letter to the same person again has gone back to them borderline harassment at this stage. Good luck op hope you get sorted.

How does that make them cowboys? It just means the previous person living at your address never changed their correspondence address with Virgin Media. If you want someone to blame, it's that person, who possibly deliberately didn't give them their new address so that they can't reach them for debt.

The bills are not in your name, you're not liable - liability is based on name, not address, so why are you worrying about these notices?

The main query here seems like an automated thing. Before the stock post of "You must work for Virgin Media" appears, I don't and it's possible to be a dissenting voice without working for the company, but I do have customer service experience and I know these things are just due to automated systems. It's not good but it's not personal and don't blame phone advisors.

The package may have been marked as "sent" in error. I would send Virgin Media an email for forwarding to Complaints, to remove this debt.

Soulseeker333

I gave VM that explanation that an error occurred somewhere down the line and they point blank refused to believe this. They are having none of me, they closed my complaint so I can't contact them about it anymore. It's pay or continue to deal with the debt collectors from them. I considered going to the guards re: harassment but I'm not sure there's much they can do. I thought about a solicitor too but I just don't have the money. A rep from VM has bitten when I posted in the VM thread but I hold out little hope.

flaneur

You have no contract with the debt collector and they're trying to enforce a contract that doesn't exist.

If you can't afford a solicitor, next best thing would be Joe Duffy and the court of public opinion.

stimpson

Soulseeker333 wrote: »

I gave VM that explanation that an error occurred somewhere down the line and they point blank refused to believe this. They are having none of me, they closed my complaint so I can't contact them about it anymore. It's pay or continue to deal with the debt collectors from them. I considered going to the guards re: harassment but I'm not sure there's much they can do. I thought about a solicitor too but I just don't have the money. A rep from VM has bitten when I posted in the VM thread but I hold out little hope.

As I said, keep posting on that thread daily. I’d be surprised if the reps don’t sort it out.

Cheshire Cat

Contact Conor Pope on Pricewatch (Irish Times). He is quite good at sorting out nonsense like that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer

shaunr68

Good luck OP, stick it out you have had great advice here. Only thing I'd add is to write to VM and state that you refuse to deal with the debt collectors, because no debt exists. Tell VM that the dispute is between VM and yourself and you will not co-operate with any third party chasing a non-existent debt. Add that if they aren't able to provide evidence of a debt then they can knock themselves out and take you to court.

Checkmate19

Get on to social median and shame them. Ring them and tell them your doing it. They will soon back down. Twitter and here. Get through to someone in vm and tell them your doing it as well. Fight fire with fire. Only way to deal with companies in this situation is go on the offensive and tell them your going to shame them every way you can.

SEPT 23 1989

Can I ask how much this debt is?

Checkmate19

They are chasing you over a box. Christ that's low. Shame them. This won't be going to court and if it did would be laughed out of court. I'd get onto them and tell them you are going to post this case on twitter and every other social media. Bet that will end it. I can a similar problem with another company and they soon changed their tune once they knew i wasnt going to be bullied.

shaunr68

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can I ask how much this debt is?

It says in the first post, 175 yoyos. Certainly enough to kick up a stink about, on principle if nothing else

Checkmate19

Post your case on the boards here. I bet debt is gone by the end of the week. Or ring them and start screaming at them. Only joking but go on the offensive. Mention your going to ring joe duffy, post on twitter. That usually does the trick.

flutered

stronglikebull wrote: »

Don't even engage with the debt collector. In fact, if they contact you again be as abusive and abrupt as you can possibly be. These scum deserve nothing more for this kind of harassment.

In fairness to you, you've stuck to it a lot longer than I would have. VM are terrible for customer service. They're as bad an ISP as we've ever had in this country, and I had a BT Ireland account that I couldn't get them to stop harassing me about for nearly a year. Ignore them, and it'll go away. No way they can go to court over something you've already written to them about, that a manager there has said was resolved, and when you had never even received service on. Even if they did, they'd pay a fortune to be made look like the idiots they are.

the op has no crontract with the debit company, so they cannot take him to court, the supposed contract is with v. media, tell the debit company this, i went down this road in the past, it proved to be the correct road

marklazarcovic

eircom tried this with me ages ago,couldnt give me a service so took stuff back,billed me anyway,like you i had calls confirming i owed nothing and they just sorted it on the system there and then. not a chance they did. 6 months later debt recovery letters started arriving, i rang eircom to be told not to worry,its automated,and they just sorted it on the system yet again ..lolol ..did they fcuk,over a year of letters,i ignored all after the first one. absolute disgrace pressuring people, no doubt they get a percentage who pay money they do not owe,but are too timid to fight over and just pay.

SEPT 23 1989

Why do you worry yourselves silly over chicken feed?

Have some fun with them and their 'debt collectors'

Prune Tracy

Don't mind puerile "stick it to the man" stuff OP.

flaneur wrote: »

You have no contract with the debt collector and they're trying to enforce a contract that doesn't exist.

If you can't afford a solicitor, next best thing would be Joe Duffy and the court of public opinion.

This is a myth - customers do agree in the terms and conditions to a third party taking over the debt (which the system says exists). You seem to have dignity and reason OP - therefore don't lower yourself to contacting Joe Duffy.

Debt collectors are referred to as bullies but the vast majority of the time they are recovering money that is owed for a service and would otherwise not be paid. Like with any business. As far as they're concerned, this is no different. But they should soften the attitude in cases like this when the customer has explained it's an error. Don't worry about them but keep pushing it with VM. Most importantly - get the calls listened to.

The reps here on Boards certainly aren't directly able to resolve it - they're just customer service advisors, that's all. However, keeping it public on social media will likely mean they have to escalate it. Pressure on management is what's needed. The only thing is that all these vindictive types will leap in to have a go at the reps (yet complain about bullying - lol) when it's precisely zero to blame on them. Hopefully people here might bear in mind that they're humans, not avatars, when heading over to the VM forum. And they can only give generic responses, not discuss a closed account publicly.

Wonder if the item was posted - have they checked the tracking with An Post or whatever courier company? Not saying that means you should have to pay for it - just that this might be why there is a balance showing (which should of course be wiped).

Prune Tracy

GerardKeating wrote: »

Isn't "demanding money with menaces" a criminal offense ?

Well seeing as it's not that poster's name on the notices, they're not demanding money from them. And I think that refers to hired goons, not letters!

shaunr68

To the OP: have you contacted the Virgin Media: Reps account as suggested by Jean in the other thread? Any luck resolving the issue?

my3cents

shaunr68 wrote: »

To the OP: have you contacted the Virgin Media: Reps account as suggested by Jean in the other thread? Any luck resolving the issue?

Virgin Media Harassing me

I would suggest if nothing has happened yet and if the OP wants to shame Virgin Media into action they scan and post the letters the debt collection agency are sending out (obviously removing personal data).

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

flaneur

They just want it into PM to make the thread less public.
Send your private details by PM but keep updating the thread.

Prune Tracy

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

flaneur wrote: »

They just want it into PM to make the thread less public.
Send your private details by PM but keep updating the thread.

They give a canned response because they cannot comment on a specific account without the account details. They need the account notes first. And they cannot discuss the account publicly because it involves personal details and releasing these details publicly would be a breach of data protection.

Not everything is a conspiracy - and stop blaming the customer service advisors.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, the OP needs to get his issue sorted.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What do you mean; I would say that???

Prune Tracy

Maliah Plump Bow wrote: »

What do you mean; I would say that???

Presume you don't consider chasing for a genuine debt (I know that's not the case here) bullying and you've never been lax about paying your bills/abiding by company terms that you've agreed to for a service you use, contacting the company to set up a plan if you can't pay on time, and you don't blame customer service agents on minimum wage with very little influence for company/management policy?

flaneur

Prune Tracy wrote: »

They give a canned response because they cannot comment on a specific account without the account details. They need the account notes first. And they cannot discuss the account publicly because it involves personal details and releasing these details publicly would be a breach of data protection.

Not everything is a conspiracy - and stop blaming the customer service advisors.

Considering how the company is acting, it would seem their aim is to push the problem away, not resolve it.

I’m not blaming the customer service advisors. They’re usually the ones left in the frustrating position of having to defend the indefensible in these kinds or organizations.

Nobody seems to be willing to admit that there’s been a complete screwup and nobody has the authority or autonomy in the organization to deal with it. The result is a customer’s account goes through an automated process to a debt collector.

That’s an absolutely disgraceful way to deal with customers, yet these companies do it all the time and somehow get away with it.

I would not allow them to take the on going discussion fully private. Just continue to update the thread, without confidential information.

This “under the terms of the data protection act” thing is used all the time to hide.

The Data Protection Act also requires companies to ensure that data held on customers is accurate and amend it when errors are flagged up.

It looks like when the OP previously tried to contact VM about this they were stonewalled wirh thr DPA notice.

Prune Tracy

That is simply not correct, flaneur.

It is a breach of data protection to publicly discuss a customer's account - not just their details like name, phone number, address and email, but account history. An account's information can only be discussed with the account-holder and anyone whom the account-holder authorises to be put on the account. This is why, when someone phones up with a seemingly innocuous question about their relative's account, the agent cannot tell them anything - it is information about someone else's account.

And it still applies when the customer is using a pseudonym on social media.

This is the reason for the canned responses. If there was a conspiracy, it's not like the reps here are gonna know who the customer is anyway until they get their account information.

The customer says they were advised on the phone it was wiped - so it was admitted there was a screw-up. That message was not picked up by the agency though. People like to believe this was deliberate but realistically it was far more likely to be an error (however people love to believe the worst, and sit back and watch the associated drama) and now the hands of customer service agents are tied.

Keep pushing it to be escalated to management OP - and get calls listened to/find out if there is tracking info relating to the package they're charging you for.

Social media doesn't "shame" anyone - as they're not going to do something to tick off customers unless they truly believe they have grounds for it. But social media is good for creating awareness among management.

Also, while I totally believe this case, I do not always believe social media complaints - two sides to everything. And you know why the company doesn't state the true story publicly? Data protection. It's not always in their favour. This is why companies and organisations say they cannot comment on an individual case - because they genuinely cannot.

Soulseeker333

Sorry I'm flat out emailing and following procedures for this. Im genuinely losing sleep and finding it hard to switch off from it. I was also giving VM time to respond. VM pmed me a few days ago to ask for my account number that was Wednesday and nothing since.... I understand they are customer service reps and usually very nice. I also know the debt collectors are following procedure. I try to remain calm and polite but no one is helping me or listening to me so it gets difficult.

OP is actually a she!!😉

Soulseeker333

Prune Tracy wrote: »

That is simply not correct, flaneur.

It is a breach of data protection to publicly discuss a customer's account - not just their details like name, phone number, address and email, but account history. An account's information can only be discussed with the account-holder and anyone whom the account-holder authorises to be put on the account. This is why, when someone phones up with a seemingly innocuous question about their relative's account, the agent cannot tell them anything - it is information about someone else's account.

And it still applies when the customer is using a pseudonym on social media.

This is the reason for the canned responses. If there was a conspiracy, it's not like the reps here are gonna know who the customer is anyway until they get their account information.

The customer says they were advised on the phone it was wiped - so it was admitted there was a screw-up. That message was not picked up by the agency though. People like to believe this was deliberate but realistically it was far more likely to be an error (however people love to believe the worst, and sit back and watch the associated drama) and now the hands of customer service agents are tied.

Keep pushing it to be escalated to management OP - and get calls listened to/find out if there is tracking info relating to the package they're charging you for.

Social media doesn't "shame" anyone - as they're not going to do something to tick off customers unless they truly believe they have grounds for it. But social media is good for creating awareness among management.

Also, while I totally believe this case, I do not always believe social media complaints - two sides to everything. And you know why the company doesn't state the true story publicly? Data protection. It's not always in their favour. This is why companies and organisations say they cannot comment on an individual case - because they genuinely cannot.

I've spoken to 'management' and they have no charm whatsoever. Closed my complaint after less than 24hours of contact about it and refuse all responsibility. They affirm it's my problem and I can deal with it. Joe Duffy and I could give up my family name but thanks for the tip!! I own up to my responsibilities even when I don't want to but this is completely unjust and something I have had absolutely no hand in.