Mortgage approced but can’t afford a house

janeysorcha

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

Tenigate

I'll sell you my house for eur280k. Only 90 mins from dublin

Bananaleaf

janeysorcha wrote: »

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

Are you saying that houses listed at 210k are going for in excess of 280k?
Where are you looking to buy?

Edit: To answer your question re: tips. You need to save. I mean really save. As much as you can, be as frugal as you can. We did that for 3yrs. It was kind of horrible at times, but we knew it was only a short term thing so we were able to stick it.

I've no doubt that you are saving, but I also bet you could save more. I thought I was saving loads until I started writing down all my expenditure. It turned out I was spending a lot more than I realised.

GhostyMcGhost

janeysorcha wrote: »

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

If you’re outbid it’s not a new house you’re taking about

Things to consider if you buy new:

1) get FTB Grant which helps with 5% of deposit (only if you’re both FTB’s)

2) The price is the price. No bids, nice and clean that way

The other thing is that new builds are few and far between depending on where you’re based

€280k will definitely land you something outside the capital. Inside Dublin and it’ll be a stretch

Happy Hunting

December2012

Well it all depends on what area you want to live. You cant have everything you want, so you either wait and save to buy in an area that is more expensive, or you move your location.

Henbabani

Hi, how many bedrooms are you looking at?
apartment or detached?
i saw a lot of ads for 2BDR in city center for 220-250K, i guess you can find one for 280K.
if you looking for 3BDR apartment i guess you will have to go out from city center or even from D1-8 to D9-24 areas.

PhoenixParker

janeysorcha wrote: »

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

Look at apartments and duplexes, particularly those built at the tail end of the boom and since. These tend to be bigger, have storage and be more suitable for long term living.

fret_wimp2

janeysorcha wrote: »

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

more detail required.
where are you trying to buy? if it's in Leitrim them something is amiss. if it's in dublin then what areas are you looking and what types of house are you considering?

everyone wants a semi d in D6,8,16,18.
fact is everyone can't afford it. many have not accepted this. it's the capital, some areas are going to be vastly more expensive.
similarly, everyone wants a semi d or a detatach. again, this is a luxury nowadays not everyone can have, particularly in the capital. loom at your budget and set expectations accordingly. if you can't accept not living in an expensive area or having a house without certain features, then you're stuck.

I have friends who won't consider anything but a semi d in dundrum but are only willing to go to a certain price. they will never get a house.

MSVforever

If the OP is searching in Dublin then he will have to look at less desirable areas within Tallaght/Clondalkin /Finglas /Ballyfermot/Ballymun/Balbriggan. You won't even get a decent 2 up 2 down ex-council house in Crumlin /Drimnagh /Kimmage for under €300k anymore (unless it's in bits).

Paddytheman

Still a bit around Crumlin for under €300,000 tbh but then again numbers and photos on t'interweb tells a different story to a dozen or so kids hanging outside your house on a Friday night up to all sorts of mallarkey....:eek::eek:

Eric Cartman

MSVforever wrote: »

If the OP is searching in Dublin then he will have to look at less desirable areas within Tallaght/Clondalkin /Finglas /Ballyfermot/Ballymun/Balbriggan. You won't even get a decent 2 up 2 down ex-council house in Crumlin /Drimnagh /Kimmage for under €300k anymore (unless it's in bits).

+1

OP , No idea where you're looking, but if its inside the M50 or in a part of south Dublin where you're not afraid to walk the streets at night then theres not a hope of anything for 280k

the_syco

Eric Cartman wrote: »

OP , No idea where you're looking, but if its inside the M50 or in a part of south Dublin where you're not afraid to walk the streets at night then theres not a hope of anything for 280k

Agreed. If it's sub €250k inside the M50, it's either a complete sh|thole or you'll be living next to either

• Travllers
• Drug Dealers
• Gangsters

Next questions; does you and your other half work north or south side? And do you have a car?

padser

the_syco wrote: »

Agreed. If it's sub €250k inside the M50, it's either a complete sh|thole or you'll be living next to either

• Travllers
• Drug Dealers
• Gangsters

Most likely all of the above

Henbabani

the_syco wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

OP , No idea where you're looking, but if its inside the M50 or in a part of south Dublin where you're not afraid to walk the streets at night then theres not a hope of anything for 280k

Agreed. If it's sub €250k inside the M50, it's either a complete sh|thole or you'll be living next to either

• Travllers
• Drug Dealers
• Gangsters

Next questions; does you and your other half work north or south side? And do you have a car?

you can't find in this budget 2BDR apartment somewhere nicer?

theteal

This thread peaked my interest as I've long since lost interest in the Irish property market. I'm surprised at some of the more recent statements about €300k can get you. Based on which I had a quick check of the old 'hood of Walkinstown (nice middle of the road "working class" area, not rough, not snooty, inside m50, not far from city center ).

Right now, there are only two 3 bed houses for < €280k on daft. That's madness. The nicer of the two needs some modernisation. The other one only has one picture (says a lot) and it's a house I have knowledge of from childhood - it'll need substantial work.

So yeah, sorry OP, bleak times. I hear Kilcullen is nice

Henbabani

theteal wrote: »

This thread peaked my interest as I've long since lost interest in the Irish property market. I'm surprised at some of the more recent statements about €300k can get you. Based on which I had a quick check of the old 'hood of Walkinstown (nice middle of the road "working class" area, not rough, not snooty, inside m50, not far from city center ).

Right now, there are only two 3 bed houses for < €280k on daft. That's madness. The nicer of the two needs some modernisation. The other one only has one picture (says a lot) and it's a house I have knowledge of from childhood - it'll need substantial work.

So yeah, sorry OP, bleak times. I hear Kilcullen is nice

what about 2-3 bdr apartments?
there's a lot in the budget of 300k

theteal

Henbabani wrote: »

what about 2-3 bdr apartments?
there's a lot in the budget of 300k

I don't know of the OP's needs but I would go to a lot of effort to avoid being stuck raising a family in an Irish apartment

Henbabani

theteal wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

what about 2-3 bdr apartments?
there's a lot in the budget of 300k

I don't know of the OP's needs but I would go to a lot of effort to avoid being stuck raising a family in an Irish apartment

If everyone wants to raise their family in house rather than apartments, in 2-3 years the land in the capital will be gone.

Peatys

Tenigate wrote: »

I'll sell you my house for eur280k. Only 90 mins from dublin

5am Sunday morning in a veyron

theteal

Henbabani wrote: »

If everyone wants to raise their family in house rather than apartments, in 2-3 years the land in the capital will be gone.

My issue wouldn't be with apartments in general, just the current Irish incarnation of such. Improve the size and quality of apartments and a lot of Irish people would be more than willing to change their views.

In saying all that, I'd have no issues with moving out to the Kildare 'burbs - a better train service would make it more attractive though

PhoenixParker

theteal wrote: »

My issue wouldn't be with apartments in general, just the current Irish incarnation of such. Improve the size and quality of apartments and a lot of Irish people would be more than willing to change their views.

In saying all that, I'd have no issues with moving out to the Kildare 'burbs - a better train service would make it more attractive though

Newer apartments are better for this. The building regs changed at the tail end of the boom and energy standards, minimum sizes, storage requirements etc. improved as a result.

They can be hard to find but there are apartments worth considering out there. Dublin has grown massively in the last 30 years. We need to get away from the idea that everyone can live in a house.

Henbabani

PhoenixParker wrote: »

theteal wrote: »

My issue wouldn't be with apartments in general, just the current Irish incarnation of such. Improve the size and quality of apartments and a lot of Irish people would be more than willing to change their views.

In saying all that, I'd have no issues with moving out to the Kildare 'burbs - a better train service would make it more attractive though

Newer apartments are better for this. The building regs changed at the tail end of the boom and energy standards, minimum sizes, storage requirements etc. improved as a result.

They can be hard to find but there are apartments worth considering out there. Dublin has grown massively in the last 30 years. We need to get away from  the idea that everyone can live in a house.

good view.
i can tell that here in Israel most of the people in Tel Aviv area grow up families in apartments.
a regular 3BDR aparment(here in Israel we subject it as 4 BDR because we count the living room as a room, don't ask me why) is 85-100 sqm.
In my flights to europe i used airbnb few times and i have to say i saw 3-4 bdr apartment really small(Budapest, Prague, Bucharest) but i guess it's only a matter of habit, people must make the switch in Ireland and precisely in Dublin.

the_syco

Henbabani wrote: »

In my flights to europe i used airbnb few times and i have to say i saw 3-4 bdr apartment really small(Budapest, Prague, Bucharest) but i guess it's only a matter of habit, people must make the switch in Ireland and precisely in Dublin.

I wonder if all of them being either communist rule or ex-Soviet Bloc affected how they built apartments?

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Newer apartments are better for this. The building regs changed at the tail end of the boom and energy standards, minimum sizes, storage requirements etc. improved as a result.

Are there any requirements for green spaces that children can use?

PhoenixParker

the_syco wrote: »

Are there any requirements for green spaces that children can use?

Not sure if it has the force of law vs a guideline but it's covered here:
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/apartment_guidelines_21122015.pdf

andekwarhola

If you're hellbent on Dublin, just wait and keep saving even if it means reapplying for a mortgage.

When you can't get somewhere for under 300 in D12, don't enter the market.

Put it this way, my friend bought a house in Dublin about 5 years ago for 220. They're now selling for about 375.

What's the rush?

Sleepy

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/donabate/12-station-court-donabate-dublin-1465654/

That would be within your budget. Nice quiet village with a good train line to city centre.

Wabbit Ears

Sleepy wrote: »

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/donabate/12-station-court-donabate-dublin-1465654/

That would be within your budget. Nice quiet village with a good train line to city centre.

Id be wary about buying downstairs in this type of develpment. Id seek clarification of the construction of the roof between the upper and lower apartments and be sure to view when the tennants upstairs are in and moving around.

janeysorcha

Thanks all! We were hoping to buy in the D12 area but it seems that everything is 300K+

Ninja_Go

janeysorcha wrote: »

Thanks all! We were hoping to buy in the D12 area but it seems that everything is 300K+

You can either keep saving in the hope that prices don't rise...or accept that you can't afford your most desired area so you have to compromise. I'd love to live in Dublin 6w but I can dream on.
Try looking at Tallaght - Kilnamanagh/ Tymon North/ Glenview/ Old Bawn are all about 10 mins from Dublin 12 and largely very settled estates. Tymon North is mostly social housing/former social housing as are some small parts of Kilnamanagh (afaik) but Old Bawn/Glenview are all private estates. Everything you could possibly need is in Tallaght and while it seems far out from town, the traffic isn't bad getting out of Tallaght so really only a short distance/time before you're in D12. Also all those estates only a few mins from M50.

Hitman3000

janeysorcha wrote:

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

You can afford a house just not where you want.

The_Conductor

There are a few funny things happening.
E.g. if there is a new development going up in a particular locality- secondhand prices- take a dive.

If you're willing to compromise- I think you have a reasonable budget- you might not get your 'dream' home- but you might get a home you make into your dream home.

I can't speak for D12 (not from the area and haven't looked at property there in a long while)- but I do believe you have a reasonable budget you simply have to adjust your expectations to suit what you can afford (the old cut your cloth to suit your means argument).

xper

theteal wrote: »

This thread peaked my interest as I've long since lost interest in the Irish property market. I'm surprised at some of the more recent statements about €300k can get you. Based on which I had a quick check of the old 'hood of Walkinstown (nice middle of the road "working class" area, not rough, not snooty, inside m50, not far from city center ).

Right now, there are only two 3 bed houses for < €280k on daft. That's madness. The nicer of the two needs some modernisation. The other one only has one picture (says a lot) and it's a house I have knowledge of from childhood - it'll need substantial work.

So yeah, sorry OP, bleak times. I hear Kilcullen is nice

Its worse than you think. I've been keeping track of the asking and eventual registered selling price of houses I've looked at in south and central Dublin over the last year. On a sample of about 100 properties with an asking price in the range of 250k - 380k, about half have gone for more than 20% higher than asking, a few for more than 40%, about the same number as were sold ±5% of their asking.

mkdon

Agreed property in Ireland is a mess
Where is the regulation what lessons have been learnt from last boom and bust

Estate agents have too much power

I believe there is phantom bidding going on
Something needs to be done and NOW

mkdon

Op where exactly are you searching - more details please

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Maz2016

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Those prices aren’t bad at all. And energy rating A1

thierry14

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Some bargains alright in D15 on new builds

Rental yield is massive too, companies going up all over the place

If i was buying I would be looking there

janeysorcha

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

mkdon

What areas are you looking for in particular? Anywhere in Dublin? Where can one see asking and sold price details online?

Eric Cartman

janeysorcha wrote: »

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

They can't. either both halves of the couple become doctors/solicitors/consultants or they go to live in Ashbourne, celbridge, balbriggan, kilcock, wicklow etc...

janeysorcha

Dublin 12. For example, we went to view a 2 bed terraced house in Dublin 12. The same terraced house sold for 200K the previous year, the house sold for 290K this year and needed quite a bit of renovation, it didn’t even have a kitchen

fret_wimp2

that's the dublin property market, for better or worse.
nobody here will have an easy magic formula to allow you get a house where you want to the standard you want for the price you can afford.

but that's life. id love to live in D16 in a fully renovated A rated semi D with room for 2 cars.

that's not something I can afford so either dont buy or adjust my expectations.

start looking at properties you currently dismiss, in areas you wouldn't have considered or that don't have some very expensive feature you think you need.

eventually you will either see something in your price range you feel you can call home, or you wont.

it really boils down to what you can afford and finding something that makes you happy within that price range

December2012

Neither my husband or I bought in the areas we grew up in, they were just too expensive. Same with all of my friends. That’s just part of growing up in a nice part of Dublin - you don’t get to stay there without big bucks.

Peregrinus

janeysorcha wrote: »

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

It's pretty standard for any city that experiences economic and population growth that young adults typically can't buy houses in the areas that they grew up in. If they can, that strongly points to the city being in decline or in recession.

In other words, this is perfectly normal. I'm not denying that there is a housing crisis in Ireland, but the perception of crisis is probably made worse if people have unrealistic expectations of what a normal property market looks like.

janeysorcha

The properties that I’ve been looking at have been well within reach 12 months ago. So it’s more a case of are my expectations unrealistic, or will the house prices fall once again in a couple of years?

Peregrinus

Except twelve months ago you weren't in a position to buy them. What changed? You got mortgage approval. So, perhaps, did others. Possibly there's not just more people with mortgage approval, but also mortgage approvals may be getting larger - they're normally a multiple of salary, so if earnings rise mortgage approvals get bigger. Which means, in established areas, there's more buyers with more money chasing the same supply of houses, which are the kind of conditions that result in price rises.

In times of economic growth, or even economic recovery, the population rises, and earnings rise, faster than the housing stock can be increased. And this effect is magnified if you're particularly interested in buying in the area you grew up in because, by definition, that's a settled, established area with limited space for the construction of new housing stock. So the city grows, new suburbs or dormitory communities develop, and the next generation buys its homes there.

This is a pain. I get that if you grew up in Dublin 12 you don't fancy living in Kilcock. But this kind of development in the housing market is pretty normal. There was a time when Dublin 12 was the edge of the known world, and people who grew up closer to town were horrified at having to move there. (Brendan Behan writes about his father's reaction when told that the Corporation was to house the Behan family in a new development; "Crumlin? They eat their dead out there!")

Will house prices fall in a couple of years? Possibly, if there's another slump. But notice that house prices are much slower to fall than they are to rise. People are very reluctant to sell their house for less than they think it's "worth", and what they think it's worth is heavily influenced by (a) what they paid for it, and (b) what they could probably have sold it for last year. So when the market turns down, this isn't reflected first of all in a big drop in prices, but in a big drop in volume; people who are minded to sell their houses don't, because they think they are not being offered enough. Only after the slowdown has continued for a while do expectations change, and prices start to drop.

December2012

janeysorcha wrote: »

The properties that I’ve been looking at have been well within reach 12 months ago. So it’s more a case of are my expectations unrealistic, or will the house prices fall once again in a couple of years?

You are being unrealistic. Stop looking at what things used to cost. What do they cost now? What can you afford?

If you don’t want to pay that, then don’t buy.

As more people qualify for mortgages, prices rise as credit is possible. Why didn’t you buy 12 months ago?

boris1234

Was in a similar position toyourself up to June this year. We were looking in a specific part of Crumlin/Kimmage for almost a year. Eventually got our place on the road we wanted. Paid more than what I originally thought we would get a place for as I kept thinking of what it would have cost 12 months ago. Anyway keep going. We got lucky as a house we bid on came back to us 2 months after we originally bid on it as the sale fell through. Got it for 20k less than our original highest bid.

Feel free to pm for any advice on specific areas etc.

Shadow_27

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

GingerLily

Shadow_27 wrote: »

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

The buyer isn't the customer for a second hand home - the seller is, that's who are employing them.

Shadow_27

Shadow_27 wrote: »

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

By auctioneer here do you mean estate agent? Were you actually trying to buy at an auction or by private treaty?

The agent isn't there to look after the buyer though. As a buyer you're pretty much on your own, your solicitor should act in your interest but that's it. The agent is paid by the seller to get as much as possible on the house. Obviously nobody should condone phantom bids however.