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New Tesla roadster - 250mph 1.9sec to 60
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17-11-2017 11:46am#1https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/tesla-roadster-quickest-car-in-the-world/37108
1.9 secs to 60. 250mph. 620 mile range (at highway speeds) . sub 9 1/4 mile
https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/931409569640677376
acceleration in that twitter video.
it's a new age!
launch 2020.
Chiron performance for 200 to 250k USD.
6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9JQAkcYakComments
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I'm saying just because you read "inside" stories about high profile companies saying one thing doesn't mean it's widely true. For a good while if you believed the stories you would have thought large numbers of Google employees where living in cars and RVs in the company parking lot, and women never got decent jobs there, yet it has some of the highest employee satisfaction and retention rates in the industry.
Far from me defending Tesla and its cultist's blind praise at any level, but in fairness the "bad stories" are the ones that get all the press and air time. You can have a ratio of 1 to 1000, but it's that 1 making the news
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I think the cool takeaway from this is that kind of performance will be available in €40k saloons in a few short years, of course only the computer will be allowed to do the driving
There is a different kind of visceral quality to something with that kind of linear acceleration in near silence. Anyone who has ever gone down a steep hill on a bike with questionable brakes will know what I mean.0 -
I don't get why people are so concerned about engine roar and popping exhausts...two of the worst features of the internal combustion engine.
I'd buy this in a heartbeat if I had that money to put down. Nice quiet ride, don't need my radio volume blasting to hear over the engine. Great! Can't stand the way they pipe engine sounds into some cars now...
Yeah, yeah, I know..."true enthusiasts love the noise" and all that rubbish
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I don't get why people are so concerned about engine roar and popping exhausts...two of the worst features of the internal combustion engine.
I'd buy this in a heartbeat if I had that money to put down. Nice quiet ride, don't need my radio volume blasting to hear over the engine. Great! Can't stand the way they pipe engine sounds into some cars now...
Yeah, yeah, I know..."true enthusiasts love the noise" and all that rubbish
Those lads are true enthusiasts...
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Ring Ring....
AXA: What engine size are you insuring ?
Me: Yes, its a tesla, 800bhp
AXA: that will be 14,200euroDeleted User wrote: »I think the cool takeaway from this is that kind of performance will be available in €40k saloons in a few short years, of course only the computer will be allowed to do the driving
There is a different kind of visceral quality to something with that kind of linear acceleration in near silence. Anyone who has ever gone down a steep hill on a bike with questionable brakes will know what I mean.0 -
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Is the leaf not around 120bhp ? Hardly a rocket ship !
Quicker than you think. Electric torque - up to 320NM from 0RPM. Beats most cars off the lights. It's biggest problem is low rolling resistance tires and FWD.... so wheel spin (though the Ioniq suffers worse).
And the i3... well this is what BMW had setup for the UK launch back in '13:
works like that off the track too:
At a guess the Roadster has 3.5 times the torque (assuming the 10000NM is wheel torque not motor) and ~7-8 times the motor power of the i3.
Franz peels out:
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0-50km/h in the 3s and the new model up for order now has 50% more power. There's also a NISMO Leaf motor controller kit that knocks a second or so off.
There's also a new i3 (the i3S) up for order right now with 40% more mid-range power, wider tires for better traction (the computer limits power a lot on the i3 because of the skinny 170mm rear tires) and a wider rear track.
I've vboxed the old model at 5.5 seconds 0-100 in perfect conditions with traction control disabled. Rear motor / rear wheel drive with a 50/50 weight distribution, low center of gravity and proper BMW steering. I haven't heard a critic who actually got behind the wheel of one.
EVs don't feel the same to drive... they all have very different driving characteristics, regen braking implementations, steering, suspension and power curves. They are cars lads, not kitchen appliances.
To veer back OT with the roadster... I don't know why some people are so sceptical. The numbers make perfect sense to most of us in the EV forum. At the limits all the same...
1. Tesla already make a 2.5 ton large luxury sedan that does 2.38 seconds 0-100. Lower weight while maintaining the same battery discharge limits and you've got your 1.9 seconds. The EV powertrain means smooth power delivery so less issues like the veyron needing to glue on the tires.
2. With multi-motor torque vectoring, the usual low center of gravity of a purpose built EV and with proper steering it should handle really well
3. Battery capacity - on average battery density in the same size and weight is increasing at about 5-10% per year. The original roadster had a 56kWh pack in 2008 and this is 12 year of compound improvement on. Also some technical changes Tesla has made for model S, X & 3 in the interim improve things.
4. Range - it still takes the same amount of energy to move the same amount of weight down the road at a given speed. Unlike combustion engines, EV motors don't lose efficiency at part throttle so you can have as much power as you like on tap at a heartbeats notice but going 100km/h down the road in an aerodynamically similar car that weighs the same is still going to consume energy at the same rate.0 -
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I'm not skeptical - I already drive a hybrid (gs450h) so have some feeling for the electric boost.
What I don't get is the blind faith in Tesla - when all the evidence is that they overpromise, underdeliver, have significant build quality issues.
Unless the model 3 production issues are overcome in the next 6 months, I predict Tesla's financial backers will walk away. This just means the existing motor industry will take advantage of the market tesla created. Then we will see consolidation of the smaller EV players
On battery capacity, extrapolating the current improvements on battery capacity into the future might not be very sound. The improvements in capacity have been driven by research into new battery chemistry. Whether all the low hanging improvements have been made is the question and where are the next 2 decades of improvements to come from ?0-50km/h in the 3s and the new model up for order now has 50% more power. There's also a NISMO Leaf motor controller kit that knocks a second or so off.
There's also a new i3 (the i3S) up for order right now with 40% more mid-range power, wider tires for better traction (the computer limits power a lot on the i3 because of the skinny 170mm rear tires) and a wider rear track.
I've vboxed the old model at 5.5 seconds 0-100 in perfect conditions with traction control disabled. Rear motor / rear wheel drive with a 50/50 weight distribution, low center of gravity and proper BMW steering. I haven't heard a critic who actually got behind the wheel of one.
EVs don't feel the same to drive... they all have very different driving characteristics, regen braking implementations, steering, suspension and power curves. They are cars lads, not kitchen appliances.
To veer back OT with the roadster... I don't know why some people are so sceptical. The numbers make perfect sense to most of us in the EV forum. At the limits all the same...
1. Tesla already make a 2.5 ton large luxury sedan that does 2.38 seconds 0-100. Lower weight while maintaining the same battery discharge limits and you've got your 1.9 seconds. The EV powertrain means smooth power delivery so less issues like the veyron needing to glue on the tires.
2. With multi-motor torque vectoring, the usual low center of gravity of a purpose built EV and with proper steering it should handle really well
3. Battery capacity - on average battery density in the same size and weight is increasing at about 5-10% per year. The original roadster had a 56kWh pack in 2008 and this is 12 year of compound improvement on. Also some technical changes Tesla has made for model S, X & 3 in the interim improve things.
4. Range - it still takes the same amount of energy to move the same amount of weight down the road at a given speed. Unlike combustion engines, EV motors don't lose efficiency at part throttle so you can have as much power as you like on tap at a heartbeats notice but going 100km/h down the road in an aerodynamically similar car that weighs the same is still going to consume energy at the same rate.0 -
What I don't get is the blind faith in Tesla - when all the evidence is that they overpromise, underdeliver, have significant build quality issues.
I'd characterise Tesla a bit different. They promise the limit of what's achievable in terms of performance and features, underestimate the time required to do the work and generally meet the claims (albeit late).
Build quality substantially improved from the early Model S and X to today. Particularly in the last year and half or so. They are not up to the german premium brands, and partially that's a matter of much of the money they have to build the car needing to be sunk into the powertrain, but they've settled into a pattern of simple clean design and some nice materials (though some wear issues with the new synthetic leather).
I'm not a Tesla fanboy... there are a lot of things I don't like about the S & X like the regen braking behaviour, indirect steering and parking the S around a european city is like trying to maneuver an aircraft carrier.
As an engineer I look at the X's falcon wing doors like this:
Unless the model 3 production issues are overcome in the next 6 months, I predict Tesla's financial backers will walk away. This just means the existing motor industry will take advantage of the market tesla created. Then we will see consolidation of the smaller EV players
I know a couple of engineers working for Tesla and I'm aware of some of the details of the production issues. They are not generally at the Fremont factory making the car but at the Gigafactory making the batteries and modules. While Tesla/Panasonic have admitted to an issue with module assembly that they are correcting, there are more issues impacting production yields on the cell production line that will be the next big barrier and much harder to fix, but both Tesla and Panasonic have high incentive to resolve the problems.
The majority of the existing motor industry are basically incompetent and unable to mass-produce EVs until 2022-2025 due to supply chain issues.
Daimler and Nissan being the sole exceptions. There are hilarious things going on in the background like Jaguar Land Rover putting out RFQs for more batteries than capacity exists in the market to build with less than a month to go before pilot production of the I-Pace... the single biggest item on the bill of materials and they didn't have it integrated, tested, priced and the supply locked down.
Just to provide context... the Model S was launched in 2010, 7 years later the only mass-produced car from a major manufacturer in the same range class is a hatchback designed for GM by the former Daewoo design team in Korea and every part that actually makes it go from batteries to power electronics and motor to infotainment system was designed and built by LG in Korea... not GM in Michigan. That's not an answer to Tesla, that's a new disintermediation question along the lines of "Why do LG need GM?".On battery capacity, extrapolating the current improvements on battery capacity into the future might not be very sound. The improvements in capacity have been driven by research into new battery chemistry. Whether all the low hanging improvements have been made is the question and where are the next 2 decades of improvements to come from ?
There are at least a couple of improvements to chemistry and cell structure per year. The average works out at 5-10% per annum and has stayed pretty steady. It's true that will are approaching the limits of what's possible with many current lithium ion chemistries.
As for the next 2 decades, while there are still being problems worked out around parasitic reactions after multiple cycles. Lithium Air provides a path in theory to a ten fold improvement in energy density.
I don't see pack capacity and range going much beyond the 2020 roadster's 1000km. Cost and weight will be reduced instead.
Another question is whether 1000km range from a 200kWh pack like the Roadster has is actually something that long term the market would be willing to pay for. It has a solid use case right now in the form of shutting up some of the naysayers.
I do 60,000km a year on a pack 1/10th of that capacity and my bet would be that people would over-estimate their range needs for their first EV purchase, quickly realise that their real needs are more modest and buy a cheaper lower range EV for their next car.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO5z32L32aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIMVO2Ebl1I
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