Bus and train fares going up - no more flat fares on BE

Mrs OBumble

There were press releases just before the October bank holiday about bus fares going up slightly, and how the city-fare zone was being extended to Oranmore and Barna. All presented in rosy "we're making things better" terms.

Today I discovered that what they left out of the PR is that city buses will have a two-tier fare, with higher prices for journeys longer than 7.5km on all routes.

I've done some measuring on Google Maps, all descried here - along with all the other fare increase details.

Quite big increases (22%, or 17% with Leap) for adults making some common journeys.

Strange move considering they are doing the opposite in cork city, getting rid of the two zones and reducing fares considerably for locations in the old outer zone with city leap fares staying the same (cash fares going up).

Mrs OBumble

Kira Bitter Piccolo wrote: »

Strange move considering they are doing the opposite in cork city, getting rid of the two zones and reducing fares considerably for locations in the old outer zone with city leap fares staying the same (cash fares going up).

No they aren't. The same approach is being followed in all regional cities (Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford): the city zone is being pushed to the edge of the outer zone (in our case, there wasn't one, in Cork's there was a green zone). As you say, trips within that zone but shorter than 7.5km have city leap fares staying the same (cash fares going up). But trips longer than 7.5km, both cash and Leap fares are going up.

Funnily enough, this detail was left out of the press-releases, but it's very much described in the documents from the NTA.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No they aren't. The same approach is being followed in all regional cities (Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford): the city zone is being pushed to the edge of the outer zone (in our case, there wasn't one, in Cork's there was a green zone). As you say, trips within that zone but shorter than 7.5km have city leap fares staying the same (cash fares going up). But trips longer than 7.5km, both cash and Leap fares are going up.

Funnily enough, this detail was left out of the press-releases, but it's very much described in the documents from the NTA.

I don't think this is accurate, there is an intermediate fair still for some areas but its far less than before and it extends further than 7.5km from the city centre. Areas in the old red zone had a leap fare of 3.40 its not going to be reduced to 1.89 while the city fare remains at 1.61.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/New-Cork-city-bus-zone-to-see-fares-fall-from-suburban-areas-59660e43-d8db-4853-95f8-23ff2eef6db4-ds

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Today I discovered that what they left out of the PR is that city buses will have a two-tier fare, with higher prices for journeys longer than 7.5km on all routes.

I've done some measuring on Google Maps, all descried here - along with all the other fare increase details.

Quite big increases (22%, or 17% with Leap) for adults making some common journeys.

Thanks for the comprehensive information. How this "Cross Zone" is going to be handled when purchasing tickets on the 404 and 409/403 will be interesting. Probably encourage more take up of the 24hour ticket on LEAP?

Mrs OBumble

Kira Bitter Piccolo wrote: »

I don't think this is accurate, there is an intermediate fair still for some areas but its far less than before and it extends further than 7.5km from the city centre. Areas in the old red zone had a leap fare of 3.40 its not going to be reduced to 1.89 while the city fare remains at 1.61.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/New-Cork-city-bus-zone-to-see-fares-fall-from-suburban-areas-59660e43-d8db-4853-95f8-23ff2eef6db4-ds

Here's a screenshot of part of page 47 of the NTA's document, with relevant parts highlighted.



Their intention is pretty clear. Possibly the Cork newspaper missed that part, because it is tucked in underneath the Galway map at the bottom of the section.

It has occurred to me that there might be local plans to just not implement the higher fare fore trips longer than 7.5km - but BE is loss making, I cannot see the NTA letting them get away with it.

fergiesfolly

Slight tangent, but I'm hoping someone can help.
My daughter is a student in a city secondary school, using the normal bus service occasionally.
Bought her a Leap card thinking it would be cheaper, but she is getting charged €1.61 per journey(Adult rate) during school hours.
She was getting charged €1.05 cash before this.
I've tried finding a definitive listing from leap or BE but it's a bit confusing.
Is there anyone here that uses the service that could fill me in.
Thanks

Cheshire Cat

Did you buy her a Child Leap Card? Then it should be be €0.77 during and €0.91 outside of school hours.
Sounds like she has an Adult Leap Card.

fergiesfolly

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Did you buy her a Child Leap Card? Then it should be be €0.77 during and €0.91 outside of school hours.
Sounds like she has an Adult Leap Card.

It's a student leap card
When I researched it, the student card was recommended.
I'll contact Leap to see if I can exchange it for a child care.
Thanks for the reply.

gordongekko

Bump as the increases come into effect today

gordongekko

Seems to be 2.30 for a single journey, 1.61 with leap card and both oranmore and Barna are included in this price

what_traffic

http://connachttribune.ie/oranmore-and-barna-to-benefit-from-cheaper-bus-fares-from-today/

How does the cross zone fare work on the 404 and 409?

Redo91

Oranmore is 2.70.

gordongekko

Redo91 wrote: »

Oranmore is 2.70.

The town centre ( joyes supermarket) should be 2.30 from all i read online. 2.70 would be the price at the stop across from the car park in the village

Redo91

gordongekko wrote: »

The town centre ( joyes supermarket) should be 2.30 from all i read online. 2.70 would be the price at the stop across from the car park in the village

Ah right I said oranmore so he obviously charged the higher rate.

Fitz*

Anyone else think that the overall bus service getting a lot worse lately?

403 & 405 in particular for me.

Mrs OBumble

gordongekko wrote: »

The town centre ( joyes supermarket) should be 2.30 from all i read online. 2.70 would be the price at the stop across from the car park in the village

Depends where you're travelling from. I'd expect the higher fare.

But if you're doing it twice in 24 hours, use a leap card to buy a day saver. It's lots cheaper.

flazio

Is there a list of shops anywhere that top up leap cards?

Cheshire Cat

flazio wrote: »

Is there a list of shops anywhere that top up leap cards?

http://www.payzone.ie/paywithpayzone.jsp?pt=74

If you happen to have an NFC enabled Smartphone, the Leap App is the easiest way to top up and check your spending.

seanin4711

cant be competitive or efficient so whats the compromise? kick the punter in the goolies!

ben.schlomo

seanin4711 wrote: »

cant be competitive or efficient so whats the compromise? kick the punter in the goolies!

Far more competitive than the cost of a taxi, sometimes just as quick if not quicker too. What bus do you use yourself out of interest?

ben.schlomo

FitzShane wrote: »

Anyone else think that the overall bus service getting a lot worse lately?

403 & 405 in particular for me.

More 405s going awol than in the past and the 403 inbound doesn't seem as close to timetable as in previous times. What issues you finding?

Fitz*

ben.schlomo wrote: »

More 405s going awol than in the past and the 403 inbound doesn't seem as close to timetable as in previous times. What issues you finding?

main issues with the 403 outbound towards Ballybrit - never on time after 4.00. For some reason when the 5.15 does not show up, it just happens to be 5.50 ( a few mins late on the next service) when it arrives or even 6.00 before one arrives.

405 - an absolute disaster. I've got the bus every working day for the last few weeks and each day the bus has been late by 40 mins. Last Wednesday 29th Nov - I left work at 5.15 for the 5.20 bus. The bus stop is beside where I work. The (every 20 mins bus) bus arrived at 6.10. A full hour waiting for a bus and no explanation as to why it is so late.

Have tried mailing Bus Eireann numerous times asking why the buses are late or gone missing but they NEVER reply.

ben.schlomo

FitzShane wrote: »

main issues with the 403 outbound towards Ballybrit - never on time after 4.00. For some reason when the 5.15 does not show up, it just happens to be 5.50 ( a few mins late on the next service) when it arrives or even 6.00 before one arrives.

405 - an absolute disaster. I've got the bus every working day for the last few weeks and each day the bus has been late by 40 mins. Last Wednesday 29th Nov - I left work at 5.15 for the 5.20 bus. The bus stop is beside where I work. The (every 20 mins bus) bus arrived at 6.10. A full hour waiting for a bus and no explanation as to why it is so late.

Have tried mailing Bus Eireann numerous times asking why the buses are late or gone missing but they NEVER reply.

Ah ya sure they're never going to be on time at peak traffic times, Id never try to get one from Eyre Square between 445 and 6pm. From 620 on the 405 is usually fine. I cycle most days since the bus strike anyway so that makes life much easier.

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

main issues with the 403 outbound towards Ballybrit - never on time after 4.00. For some reason when the 5.15 does not show up, it just happens to be 5.50 ( a few mins late on the next service) when it arrives or even 6.00 before one arrives.

405 - an absolute disaster. I've got the bus every working day for the last few weeks and each day the bus has been late by 40 mins. Last Wednesday 29th Nov - I left work at 5.15 for the 5.20 bus. The bus stop is beside where I work. The (every 20 mins bus) bus arrived at 6.10. A full hour waiting for a bus and no explanation as to why it is so late.

Have tried mailing Bus Eireann numerous times asking why the buses are late or gone missing but they NEVER reply.

CAR traffic is the problem.
This issue has grown stadily over the last 12 months at these peak travel times, heard this from Bus Eireann representative at a public meeting last week. Problem is that only 10% of Bus Eireann Services have priority features. Said even increasing frequency of routes like the #404 may not have an impact unless dedicated infrastructure is provided for City Bus services.

Fitz*

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Ah ya sure they're never going to be on time at peak traffic times, Id never try to get one from Eyre Square between 445 and 6pm. From 620 on the 405 is usually fine. I cycle most days since the bus strike anyway so that makes life much easier.

Not easy cycle with laptop bags, gym bags etc though.

My biggest gripes are

1) that there are no real time updates available on buses so commuters can plan on delays
2) why can they not send an extra bus to the terminus stop of routes that BE know are continually late & busy for peak time. if they sent one extra bus to the end stop to be there for 5.30 then a lot of issues would be relieved.
3) drivers do not care what time they arrive at

Last week, there was over 30 people waiting for the bus to arrive. The number kept growing and by the 2nd stop, the bus was already over-crowded and a real safety issue for people getting on/off the bus and when the bus was breaking as there was nothing to hold onto. I had to climb past at least 18 people standing to get off at my stop.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

CAR traffic is the problem.
This issue has grown stadily over the last 12 months at these peak travel times, heard this from Bus Eireann representative at a public meeting last week. <b>Problem is that only 10% of Bus Eireann Services have priority</b> features. Said even increasing frequency of routes like the #404 may not have an impact unless dedicated infrastructure is provided for City Bus services.

Ref for that 10% is inlcluded in this article

http://connachttribune.ie/bus-growth-in-galway-to-slow-down-due-to-lack-of-priority-lanes-409/
"
Only 10% of Galway City’s roads are dedicated bus lanes, which is causing a “serious deterioration” in Bus Éireann’s ability to fulfil its timetables.
"

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

Not easy cycle with laptop bags, gym bags etc though.

My biggest gripes are

1) that there are no real time updates available on buses so commuters can plan on delays
2) why can they not send an extra bus to the terminus stop of routes that BE know are continually late & busy for peak time. if they sent one extra bus to the end stop to be there for 5.30 then a lot of issues would be relieved.
3) drivers do not care what time they arrive at

Last week, there was over 30 people waiting for the bus to arrive. The number kept growing and by the 2nd stop, the bus was already over-crowded and a real safety issue for people getting on/off the bus and when the bus was breaking as there was nothing to hold onto. I had to climb past at least 18 people standing to get off at my stop.

I cycle with pannier bag, able to transport a bit more on the bike with them. Would agree with point 1, busy bus stops should have them.
Point 3 I think you are been harsh on the bus drivers - its not their fault that Galway City Council prioritises private cars over bus passengers.
One thing one BusEireann could do to improve times is to have a tag off and on system like with DublinBus for LEAP. Would speed up boardings.

ben.schlomo

what_traffic wrote: »

CAR traffic is the problem.
This issue has grown stadily over the last 12 months at these peak travel times, heard this from Bus Eireann representative at a public meeting last week. Problem is that only 10% of Bus Eireann Services have priority features. Said even increasing frequency of routes like the #404 may not have an impact unless dedicated infrastructure is provided for City Bus services.

Where's the infrastructure going to come into it? The 403 and 405 are never going to get bus lanes on their routes so unless traffic is somehow less in volume then I can't see it changing.

Unrealistic

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Where's the infrastructure going to come into it? The 403 and 405 are never going to get bus lanes on their routes so unless traffic is somehow less in volume then I can't see it changing.

They're never going to get it because it there is no will to do so, maybe, but it would be quite possible to do it physically. It's not that long ago that the Headford Road and the Seamus Quirke Road were as narrow as the Monivea Road is now but both were able to be expanded to a width that allows multiple lanes in each direction. There is hardly any building up to the current road boundaries on the Monivea Road and Tuam Road (past Cemetery Cross) so it would be a case of CPOing land that is currently used for car parking or green space. Even where there are people's front gardens facing the road for the most part there is empty space on the opposite side so it would be possible to limit the extent to which front gardens are CPO'd. But even in cases where this is necessary, losing 10 foot of front garden is something that has happened in other parts of the city. At least if it was done to create bus lanes there would be an upside for those residents who could now expect reliable bus access to the city centre, which wasn't the case for those living on the Headford Road who had to give up space for the pleasure of having a couple of extra lanes of standing traffic outside their houses. The main exception to the above is Bohermore and the only realistic way to put a bus lane there would seem to be a one way system from Prospect Hill to Cemetery Cross.

Mrs OBumble

An observation re the fares:

It looks like BE have decided not to implement the higher fare for journeys longer than 7.5km, except on the Oranmore route: several buses are now sporting locally-made signs which say that the adult cash fare is $2.30.

This is good IMHO. Trying to do it would have killed loading times, and annoyed huge numbers of people.

Fitz*

And here shows a big problem.....

Bus was meant to be here at 6.20 and no indication that one would not be here. Apparently one will be here at 6.40 (so the 6.20 will arrive exactly when the 6.40 is meant to arrive) and another apparently landing 4 minutes after it - that won't show up either.

Fitz*

Lol 2 buses actually did just show up together!

The bus driver of the first driver gave the usual "I'm on time" speal. So how did the bus that was ahead of him on the timetable end up behind him on the route?

Guess which one sped into town straight away and guess which one stayed still for another 10 mins. You guessed it - the one with the people on it just stayed there.

seanin4711

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Far more competitive than the cost of a taxi, sometimes just as quick if not quicker too. What bus do you use yourself out of interest?

i would be quicker cycling home from ballybrit than waiting for a bus.
and trust me i have done it manys a time.
if you think the Galway city bus service is efficient, i would like of your meds!
none for ages then two come at once.
Joke of a service

ben.schlomo

seanin4711 wrote: »

i would be quicker cycling home from ballybrit than waiting for a bus.
and trust me i have done it manys a time.
if you think the Galway city bus service is efficient, i would like of your meds!
none for ages then two come at once.
Joke of a service

When not cycling it gets me in and out to work relatively pain free, it's efficient outside of peak traffic times. Bike is nearly always quicker anyway so hardly a fair comparison.

what_traffic

ben.schlomo wrote: »

When not cycling it gets me in and out to work relatively pain free, it's efficient outside of peak traffic times. Bike is nearly always quicker anyway so hardly a fair comparison.

Would agree the same. CAR peak times the buses just cannot work to the timetable.

what_traffic

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Where's the infrastructure going to come into it? The 403 and 405 are never going to get bus lanes on their routes so unless traffic is somehow less in volume then I can't see it changing.

True, but it does not always require Bus Lanes. Create Bus Gates out of Salmon Weir Bridge & College Road would work wonders at CAR traffic peak times for many City and National Bus Services.

Bus service in the city is desperate, the 6:15 pm 404 from Eyre Square to Newcastle is now regularly skipped with the driver heading directly back to Oranmore instead of doing the full route. Got it from outside GMIT a few weeks back and in Eyre Square the driver made everyone get off and then told those of us waiting to go to Newcastle that another bus would be along in an hour.

The 403 and 409 buses are shocking, it's not uncommon to be waiting an hour for either in Parkmore and then see 6 arrive in the space of a couple of minutes. Worst of all when you see a 403 or 409 approaching the Parkmore after not seeing one for almost an hour to then see the driver drive down the hill and back into town on the Tuam road.

In the past weeks I have seen bus drivers refuse flat out to put out the ramp for wheelchair users, seen a drive screaming at a 9 or 10 year old child calling him a "fucking cunt" simply because after no 409 arrived between 8:48 and 8:20 am the kid hopped on the first 409 that arrived at 8:23am. Turned out the driver wanted to grab a coffee before letting people on.

There was also a story on twitter and a police report made of a drive attacking a passenger as the driver did not believe that the customer's child had special needs. And then drivers wonder why people dislike them.

Fitz*

Another horrible week for 405 route.

This evening's late bus 'only' came 31 minutes late. Impressive as it's an improvement on 50 minutes late.

Has anyone actually ever received a reply from their complaints service? I have sent one in every other day as I am so sick of this but never get a reply.

ben.schlomo

FitzShane wrote: »

Another horrible week for 405 route.

This evening's late bus 'only' came 31 minutes late. Impressive as it's an improvement on 50 minutes late.

Has anyone actually ever received a reply from their complaints service? I have sent one in every other day as I am so sick of this but never get a reply.

I've gotten the 405 into town two mornings this week, both have been on time. Got to the Eyre Square stop at 615 this evening and hopped on one which took off straight away, must have been the 6, the 620 was due at 625. Not bad for evening traffic really.

As for complaints, never heard of them replying to an email. Twitter would be the place to rant at them if you feel the need.

Fitz*

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I've gotten the 405 into town two mornings this week, both have been on time. Got to the Eyre Square stop at 615 this evening and hopped on one which took off straight away, must have been the 6, the 620 was due at 625. Not bad for evening traffic really.

As for complaints, never heard of them replying to an email. Twitter would be the place to rant at them if you feel the need.

I've gotten the 8.40 from Eyre Square to Ballybane at 8.55 & 9.05 this week in the morning. A 5.40 from HP left at 6.25 this week too.

The twitter accounts just sent a generic message asking you to send in a complaint using a form. The generic message actually just links to their timetable homepage!

Straight Talker

Deleted User wrote: »

Bus service in the city is desperate, the 6:15 pm 404 from Eyre Square to Newcastle is now regularly skipped with the driver heading directly back to Oranmore instead of doing the full route. Got it from outside GMIT a few weeks back and in Eyre Square the driver made everyone get off and then told those of us waiting to go to Newcastle that another bus would be along in an hour.

The 403 and 409 buses are shocking, it's not uncommon to be waiting an hour for either in Parkmore and then see 6 arrive in the space of a couple of minutes. Worst of all when you see a 403 or 409 approaching the Parkmore after not seeing one for almost an hour to then see the driver drive down the hill and back into town on the Tuam road.

In the past weeks I have seen bus drivers refuse flat out to put out the ramp for wheelchair users, seen a drive screaming at a 9 or 10 year old child calling him a "fucking cunt" simply because after no 409 arrived between 8:48 and 8:20 am the kid hopped on the first 409 that arrived at 8:23am. Turned out the driver wanted to grab a coffee before letting people on.

There was also a story on twitter and a police report made of a drive attacking a passenger as the driver did not believe that the customer's child had special needs. And then drivers wonder why people dislike them.

There is a few sound drivers.But there is too many rude drivers, driving the city buses for my liking.Im talking about things like not giving people change.Or just giving you a blank dirty look, after processing a leap card payment.

Now im not expecting the red carpet to be rolled out.It is a stressful job dealing with the public.Not to mention the traffic.But we the people using the service, have our own stresses and issues as well.It would be nice to be treated with some semblance of civility.Im only talking about a few drivers here.The vast majority of drivers are sound.

ben.schlomo

FitzShane wrote: »

I've gotten the 8.40 from Eyre Square to Ballybane at 8.55 & 9.05 this week in the morning. A 5.40 from HP left at 6.25 this week too.

The twitter accounts just sent a generic message asking you to send in a complaint using a form. The generic message actually just links to their timetable homepage!

I go one bus earlier in the morning, experience has taught me that that usually works. The app helps too, a little. I know ive seen them respond to people on Twitter before, maybe its only for Expressway or Dublin services.

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I go one bus earlier in the morning, experience has taught me that that usually works. The app helps too, a little. I know ive seen them respond to people on Twitter before, maybe its only for Expressway or Dublin services.

Their responding on twitter is hit and miss.

Realistically there's not a lot they can say: traffic is shyte and that plus not having spare buses or drivers can cause havoc.

Yes they should plan for it - but its hard when traffic isn't bad the same way each day.

It's the NTA we should really be complaining to.

testtech05

Do any of you guys notice issues with buses "disappearing" from there allotted slots. Not just being late but not turning up at all..... This has happened a couple of times lately on the 407 route. The 1st time I just put it down to maybe a break down or something but it has happened at least once for each the last 3 weeks.

As an example 1 day last week my GF was waiting in town for the 6:15 bus, display at the stop says due but no sign of it, at the same time I was on my way home from work and saw the 6:15 bus from headford road into town just starting its route so decided to take notice of the next one to pass the house/collect my gf and it was the same one which I had seen on my way home i.e. only 1 bus servicing the route at peak time instead of 2 as planned on timetable.

As I said once or even twice might be explained away with breakdown etc but seems to be very regular now for it to be pure coincidence.

ben.schlomo

testtech05 wrote: »

Do any of you guys notice issues with buses "disappearing" from there allotted slots. Not just being late but not turning up at all..... This has happened a couple of times lately on the 407 route. The 1st time I just put it down to maybe a break down or something but it has happened at least once for each the last 3 weeks.

As an example 1 day last week my GF was waiting in town for the 6:15 bus, display at the stop says due but no sign of it, at the same time I was on my way home from work and saw the 6:15 bus from headford road into town just starting its route so decided to take notice of the next one to pass the house/collect my gf and it was the same one which I had seen on my way home i.e. only 1 bus servicing the route at peak time instead of 2 as planned on timetable.

As I said once or even twice might be explained away with breakdown etc but seems to be very regular now for it to be pure coincidence.

A regular enough occurrence.

Fitz*

To be fair, the buses seem to be running on time so far this working week.

Only the second day though :pac:

testtech05

I guess the lack of school traffic should help this week anyway!

ben.schlomo

testtech05 wrote: »

I guess the lack of school traffic should help this week anyway!

Exactly, back to regular traffic next week.

Fitz*

The 17.05 service on 405 today turned up at 18.15.

It's so cold.

No explanation, no apologies, nothing.

Straight Talker

FitzShane wrote: »

The 17.05 service on 405 today turned up at 18.15.

It's so cold.

No explanation, no apologies, nothing.

I was waiting for the 6.20 pm 405 bus in town yesterday.But then i saw a notice on the estimated arrivals display screen.The 405 will only be running at a frequency of every 40 minutes today.Apologies for any inconvenience caused.There was no actual reason given on the display.Just that were sorry tough.The display then said the next 405 bus will arrive in 57 minutes!

So i decided to get the 403 bus instead.The 403 leaves at quarter two and quarter past the hour.But the 6 45 pm 403 bus arrived 10 minutes early, which is good.The problem is that the driver took off, straight away after picking up the passengers, instead of waiting until the correct departure time.