Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Take it up with Peter Denham. They’re the one who declared it rape.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think he probably committed a sexual assault and he might have committed a rape.

I think this highlights your dishonest discussion technique quite well. You're happy to admit to one poster you don't believe it's rape while saying to another you believe it is.
You preach about education on consent yet happily leave a poster unchallenged when he displayed a similiar opinion to that of your mate, an opinion that you claim led to a sexual assault.

You've said repeatedly I invented the notion that he persisted with sex when she didn't want to:

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

after he came in late from a night out and he started having sex with her (o don’t remember the exact details but they’re not the important part of the story) She wasn’t into it but he persisted

The detail of him not stopping was introduced by you, not me.

Usually when someone contradicts themselves so much in a short space of time it means they are either lying about something or don't have an overall coherent argument but are trying to win the debate at all costs. Either way I've lost interest.

Ps. Don't harp on to people about the need for consent discussion while simultaneously defending the character of someone you believe raped someone. Makes you look silly.

Consent talks are definitely useless if they're going to be filled with as much contradictions as this one.

Now now. I said it was probably sexual assault, trying to have sex with someone whose sleep is probably a sexual assault and it may have been a rape. I said he persisted. I didn’t say he carried on and had sex with her regardless. I specifically said I didn’t know all the details including whether or not he carried on and had sex.

You assumed those details and now you’re accusing me of changing the story. But I never those details. You filled in the blanks which I left because I was honest and said where the limits of my knowledge are. It wasn’t an invasion for you to invent details.

I didn’t think you’d get so caught up in the preamble to the answer to your question of how someone could commit a rape without intending to. The answer is the experience of my mate who thought it wasn’t possible to commit a rape against your girlfriend.

It’s that simple. You’ve nailed your trousers to the mast and you can’t climb down now. But I think it’s obvious to most people that education on the law and proper conduct is a good idea. We teach children about health, but you’re claiming there’s no value in discussing consent. Lol.

It’s self evident to most right minded people.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now now. I said it was probably sexual assault, trying to have sex with someone whose sleep is probably a sexual assault and it may have been a rape. I said he persisted. I didn’t say he carried on and had sex with her regardless. I specifically said I didn’t know all the details including whether or not he carried on and had sex.

You assumed those details and now you’re accusing me of changing the story. But I never those details. You filled in the blanks which I left because I was honest and said where the limits of my knowledge are. It wasn’t an invasion for you to invent details.

I didn’t think you’d get so caught up in the preamble to the answer to your question of how someone could commit a rape without intending to. The answer is the experience of my mate who thought it wasn’t possible to commit a rape against your girlfriend.

It’s that simple. You’ve nailed your trousers to the mast and you can’t climb down now. But I think it’s obvious to most people that education on the law and proper conduct is a good idea. We teach children about health, but you’re claiming there’s no value in discussing consent. Lol.

It’s self evident to most right minded people.

A lot of waffle while dodging the point about why you were happy to let a poster think what your mate did was OK. And you claim to care about discussion on consent?

You consistently use anecdotal evidence no matter what the discussion is, you always have a mate that did something which conveniently backs up your point (even if you do trip up in your own lies) If it's the same mate he surely does get up to all sorts!

Conclusion: harps on about consent and women's rights while simultaneously defending his mate that he believes raped someone. You sound like one very confused individual.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

A lot of waffle while dodging the point about why you were happy to let a poster think what your mate did was OK. And you claim to care about discussion on consent?

You consistently use anecdotal evidence no matter what the discussion is, you always have a mate that did something which conveniently backs up your point (even if you do trip up in your own lies) If it's the same mate he surely does get up to all sorts!

Conclusion: harps on about consent and women's rights while simultaneously defending his mate that he believes raped someone. You sound like one very confused individual.

Do me a massive favour and find one post where I defended either what he did or his belief. Or else please stop pretending I defended either what he did or his belief.

You’re intent on dismissing my experiences rather than discuss them and risk accepting that the world isn’t black and white.

Maybe my opinions are informed by my experiences. I had a set of experiences when I went back to uni as a nature student and played rugby. Sone if the things that went on would curl your toes and couldn’t help forming your opinions.

But if you didn’t experience them, then I must not have experienced them either. Lol.

My experience is shows that while lots of people know the right thing to do, lots of people don’t. And that’s why discussing consent is a great idea.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

My experience is shows that while lots of people know the right thing to do, lots of people don’t. And that’s why discussing consent is a great idea.

You've repeatedly defended your friend. He's a good guy, rugby captain and teacher. Only raped someone because he was never told not to.

Yet you didn't discuss it on this very thread when a poster questioned whether it was rape. You just told blamed me for calling it rape even though you said it was probably rape. You're all over the place.

But yeah sorry, never have I come across someone that thought it's OK you rape your girlfriend. You know lots of people that think that though. Funny old world.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

My experience is shows that while lots of people know the right thing to do, lots of people don’t. And that’s why discussing consent is a great idea.

You've repeatedly defended your friend. He's a good guy, rugby captain and teacher. Only raped someone because he was never told not to.

Yet you didn't discuss it on this very thread when a poster questioned whether it was rape. You just told blamed me for calling it rape even though you said it was probably rape. You're all over the place.

But yeah sorry, never have I come across someone that thought it's OK you rape your girlfriend. You know lots of people that think that though. Funny old world.

Do you haven’t any examples of me defending what he did or what he believed then? It would be honest of you if you’d admit that much. I don’t defend what he did or what he believed. I’ve repeatedly said those things were wrong.

The point that obviously flew over your head was that I was highlighting where you and other posters disagreed on whether it could be rape or not. That difference of opinion demonstrates that even old people have different ideas of what consent and rape are. So it’s obvious that young people will have different ideas of rape and consent too.

That’s why discussing rape and consent are a great idea. You might live a sheltered life and that’s good for you. But then you wouldn’t really have a clue about what young people know or don’t know.

I lived in a student house because it was all I could afford as a mature student. The things I experienced were fascinating but you probably wouldn’t believe it unless you experienced those same things.

Take my word for it. Everyone doesn’t have the same understanding of rape and consent as you do.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you haven’t any examples of me defending what he did or what he believed then? It would be honest of you if you’d admit that much. I don’t defend what he did or what he believed. I’ve repeatedly said those things were wrong.

The point that obviously flew over your head was that I was highlighting where you and other posters disagreed on whether it could be rape or not. That difference of opinion demonstrates that even old people have different ideas of what consent and rape are. So it’s obvious that young people will have different ideas of rape and consent too.

That’s why discussing rape and consent are a great idea. You might live a sheltered life and that’s good for you. But then you wouldn’t really have a clue about what young people know or don’t know.

I lived in a student house because it was all I could afford as a mature student. The things I experienced were fascinating but you probably wouldn’t believe it unless you experienced those same things.

Take my word for it. Everyone doesn’t have the same understanding of rape and consent as you do.

You've defended his character loads of times. You've even said he is a good person.

I'm not sure 29 is old, but I lived in house with 12 students 5 years ago, not so much as a single rape happened.

I don't consider myself sheltered, I just avoid bad people. You obviously don't, if you've encountered so much sexual assault. I think you trying to blame a lack of consent education is a way of excusing your friend of his deplorable actions. Have ever you explored the possibility that he's a scumbag?

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

You've defended his character loads of times. You've even said he is a good person.

I'm not sure 29 is old, but I lived in house with 12 students 5 years ago, not so much as a single rape happened.

I don't consider myself sheltered, I just avoid bad people. You obviously don't, if you've encountered so much sexual assault. I think you trying to blame a lack of consent education is a way of excusing your friend of his deplorable actions. Have ever you explored the possibility that he's a scumbag?

I think it depends on if you’re looking out for it. It’s good for you to be so blissfully ignorant of the world around you.

In those few years I saw some incredible things. Lads tagging each other in and out on drunk women (everyone involved was drunk). A mate of mine who got horsing on rugby nights out and ended up finding out who he had sexual with from others next morning. The the women on the netball team had a name for him like ‘last orders’ or something similar. He was in no state to consent so I don’t see how that could be above board either.

Do you know what that was called? Banter. That was the culture. It never occurred to them they were doing something wrong because it was socially reinforced.

You might not need education because you already know it all. But I’m telling you people have different ideas and understandings of things. Education is always a good idea on important issues and I see consent as an Important issue.

How’s it that the lads with least experience of this stuff have the most confidence in their assertions? You’ll find posters who bang on about these issues and can’t get within an ass’s roar of a steady relationship. Yet the less they know the more certain they are that things are black and white.

Things aren’t black and white. Whatever your ideological opposition to openly discussing consent it’s a good idea. Not everyone knows it all as you clearly feel you do.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

You've defended his character loads of times. You've even said he is a good person.

So I asked if you could quote a single post where I defended his behaviour or his faulty belief. I’ll take the above as a ‘no I can’t find a single post where you defend his behaviour or his faulty belief’.

Apology accepted for putting words in my mouth.

Who do ye reckon Lou will vote for on Friday?..

Has she said where she stands on the Blasphemy question?

Sand

Nobody cares about your anecdotal story. To the extent that your friend even exists, it is still just an unreliable anecdote. The negative reaction to your anecdote just highlights how irrelevant it is. Consent classes are just make work schemes for people foolish enough to pursue a women's studies degree.

Hector Savage

sydthebeat wrote: »

Why post that when it's clearly a troll account


It adds nothing here

The sad thing is these days you wouldn't be surprised if it were for real.

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

Who do ye reckon Lou will vote for on Friday?..

Has she said where she stands on the Blasphemy question?

She may not vote unless the mammy can drive her.

Probably still say "I voted" on social media, like the 8th vote.

El_Duderino 09

Sand wrote: »

Nobody cares about your anecdotal story. To the extent that your friend even exists, it is still just an unreliable anecdote. The negative reaction to your anecdote just highlights how irrelevant it is. Consent classes are just make work schemes for people foolish enough to pursue a women's studies degree.

I it’s an anecdote to you but it was an experience for me. Experiences shape out opinions.

You’ve no way of telling whether anyone’s anecdotes are true on boards. This one is being dismissed because it’s the most convenient thing to do. Much more convenient than accepting the world isn’t as black and white as they like to think.

Why do you think it would be related to gender studies? The one course I know is being delivered isn’t anything like the ones you like to torture yourself by imagining. Imagine arguing against education and discussion of such an
Important issue. If LON said gravity exists you’d need to argue against it.

But as I said already, watch the course that actually exists be ignored in favour of the imaginary course that doesn’t actually exist at all.

Peter Denham

Sand wrote: »

Nobody cares about your anecdotal story. To the extent that your friend even exists, it is still just an unreliable anecdote. The negative reaction to your anecdote just highlights how irrelevant it is. Consent classes are just make work schemes for people foolish enough to pursue a women's studies degree.

It's the laziest form of debate. He always has a mate that did something to back up his point, such a cop out.

Anyway, interesting that he witnessed so many rapes and sexual assaults and never reported them. Louise O' Neill wouldn't be too pleased about that.

givyjoe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I it’s an anecdote to you but it was an experience for me. Experiences shape out opinions.

You’ve no way of telling whether anyone’s anecdotes are true on boards. This one is being dismissed because it’s the most convenient thing to do. Much more convenient than accepting the world isn’t as black and white as they like to think.

Why do you think it would be related to gender studies? The one course I know is being delivered isn’t anything like the ones you like to torture yourself by imagining. Imagine arguing against education and discussion of such an
Important issue. If LON said gravity exists you’d need to argue against it.

But as I said already, watch the course that actually exists be ignored in favour of the imaginary course that doesn’t actually exist at all.

Not the first time you've said something like this. The thing is, LON has a frequent habit of spouting illogical b0ll0cks, hence so many here feel the need to argue against it.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

She may not vote unless the mammy can drive her.

Probably still say "I voted" on social media, like the 8th vote.

I’m wondering will the masses come home to vote or is it not trendy enough like the last few referendums

PlaneSpeeking

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

I’m wondering will the masses come home to vote or is it not trendy enough like the last few referendums

Not Facebook worthy for one.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sand wrote: »

Consent classes are just make work schemes for people foolish enough to pursue a women's studies degree.

That's bollocks. I'm all for keeping the women's-studies hippy feminists out of it but it should be an essential part of a standard sex-ed classes, taught be a qualified teacher who will therefore be doing it without an agenda.

Consent is not just some anti forced violent sex-thing.

PlaneSpeeking

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's bollocks. I'm all for keeping the women's-studies hippy feminists out of it but it should be an essential part of a standard sex-ed classes, taught be a qualified teacher who will therefore be doing it without an agenda.

Consent is not just some anti forced violent sex-thing.

It has to be open, honest, realistic, for both sexes and with no religious objection allowed and then yeah - I quite agree.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

It's the laziest form of debate. He always has a mate that did something to back up his point, such a cop out.

Anyway, interesting that he witnessed so many rapes and sexual assaults and never reported them. Louise O' Neill wouldn't be too pleased about that.

Ha. The cop out is clearly being unable to discuss the experience, so declaring them impossible.

I’m not the police. I don’t go around reporting everything I see even if it may well break the law.

LON May well disagree with me. If she disagreed with me I can see you going a 180 degree switch. Strange to imagine yourself and LON in agreement. Lol.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m not the police. I don’t go around reporting everything I see even if it may well break the law.

You don't think rape is worth reporting to the police? And you lecture everyone else on consent. Wow.

I agree with Louise O Neill on lots of things, such as rape being a hideous crime. I wonder if you feel the same though? Worrying.

El_Duderino 09

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's bollocks. I'm all for keeping the women's-studies hippy feminists out of it but it should be an essential part of a standard sex-ed classes, taught be a qualified teacher who will therefore be doing it without an agenda.

Consent is not just some anti forced violent sex-thing.

It has to be open, honest, realistic, for both sexes and with no religious objection allowed and then yeah - I quite agree.

That’s exactly the kind of course they I know is actually being delivered to transition year student in this very country, at this very moment.

Watch poor aul Peter go bananas about that. They won’t object to it in practice because it’s so obviously sensible to discuss these kind of things.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s exactly the kind of course they I know is actually being delivered to transition year student in this very country, at this very moment.

Watch poor aul Peter go bananas about that. They won’t object to it in practice because it’s so obviously sensible to discuss these kind of things.

What's the use in consent classes when people like you stand idly by and watch sexual assault happen? The discussions didn't work for you, so many of your friends have committed crimes and it doesn't phase you.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

You don't think rape is worth reporting to the police? And you lecture everyone else on consent. Wow.

I agree with Louise O Neill on lots of things, such as rape being a hideous crime. I wonder if you feel the same though? Worrying.

Since it was happening in the context of “banter” no I didn’t report it. I think it’s not banter and I thinking’s a very serious issue.

It’s not my job to change the culture in that uni. I did however learn that it was something that needed to be discussed openly with people to make sure they don’t grow up thinking things like waking up and finding out who you had sex with or tagging in other blokes during sex, is banter.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Since it was happening in the context of “banter” no I didn’t report it. I think it’s not banter and I thinking’s a very serious issue.

I'm struggling to make sense of this. You believed it was very serious and not banter, but because it was in the context of banter you felt it wasn't worth reporting? Why didn't you intervene when guys were taking turns on a drunk woman. Were you afraid?

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

What's the use in consent classes when people like you stand idly by and watch sexual assault happen? The discussions didn't work for you, so many of your friends have committed crimes and it doesn't phase you.

Who stud the discussion didn’t work for me? I told you about one example where I had a chat with by house mate about it. I wasn’t the only one he chatted to but it was the discussions that caused him to change his mind.

There’s a story in the news today about a bloke who died during a uni initiation ceremony. Initiations are “banter” too and you probably wouldn’t believe the kinds of initiations going on in the sports clubs alone. I didn’t report initiations either.

The world is much more colourful than your black and white bubble. Maybe you just weren’t invited to any parties in uni. Lol.

nullzero

terryduff12 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/aliaabeed/status/1047871718369443846 ya think ya heard it all

The same sons that came out of their mother's vaginas. Probably enjoyed it as well the sicko's, another prime example of rape culture sponsored by the patriarchy. A boy being born through his mother's vagina is quite obviously a hate crime.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who stud the discussion didn’t work for me? I told you about one example where I had a chat with by house mate about it. I wasn’t the only one he chatted to but it was the discussions that caused him to change his mind.

There’s a story in the news today about a bloke who died during a uni initiation ceremony. Initiations are “banter” too and you probably wouldn’t believe the kinds of initiations going on in the sports clubs alone. I didn’t report initiations either.

The world is much more colourful than your black and white bubble. Maybe you just weren’t invited to any parties in uni. Lol.

Can safely say I was at many a party and never witnessed a rape. I generally don't hang around with scum though. I'm not sure consent classes will work on your friends, they just sound like scumbags.

Maybe stop blaming the system for your friend's awful acts and accept they are bad people?

It's funny because you're the champion of consent discussion but more than anyone here you make rape sound trivial.

El_Duderino 09

Peter Denham wrote: »

I'm struggling to make sense of this. You believed it was very serious and not banter, but because it was in the context of banter you felt it wasn't worth reporting? Why didn't you intervene when guys were taking turns on a drunk woman. Were you afraid?

It was an accepted part of the culture. The ones taking part saw it as banter. The girl’s’ friends didn’t see it as a problem worth reporting. I just didn’t get involved.

I also saw people peer pressured into drinking themselves into a stupor. Initiation rituals that were dangerous and disrespectful. I wasn’t there to police anyone else’s behaviour.

I’m sure you’d have been a hero though. A legend in your own lunchbox no doubt. Lol.

I just learned something about the range of behaviours considered acceptable in different contexts. Really eye opening to experience something like that.

Peter Denham

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It was an accepted part of the culture. The ones taking part saw it as banter. The girl’s’ friends didn’t see it as a problem worth reporting. I just didn’t get involved.

I also saw people peer pressured into drinking themselves into a stupor. Initiation rituals that were dangerous and disrespectful. I wasn’t there to police anyone else’s behaviour.

I’m sure you’d have been a hero though. A legend in your own lunchbox no doubt. Lol.

I just learned something about the range of behaviours considered acceptable in different contexts. Really eye opening to experience something like that.

There's nothing legendary about intervening in a rape. You had a responsibility to speak up and didn't, instead you did nothing and expect the rest of us to listen to you harp on about consent.