Increase in Phoenix Park Tunnel Services

pad199207

I heard a couple of months ago that Irish Rail will be increasing the services through the Phoenix Park Tunnel during weekdays and extending them to the weekend too.

Would be so handy for the weekend.

Any news on this recently ?

goingnowhere

Strike??


No progress as the drivers have throwing their toys out of the pram and trying to use expansion of services as a wedge for more money even though the agreements in place say they cannot.

thomasj

It depends on when the renevation of the 2700 is complete . That wont be happening until 2018 at the earliest

L1011

thomasj wrote: »

It depends on when the renevation of the 2700 is complete . That wont be happening until 2018 at the earliest

Off-peak services don't need the 2700s back; there is plenty of stock available - but probably no drivers.

Additional peak services will need the 2700s - and there'll be demand from every service for them at that. Maynooth line desperately needs more peak services (I'd suggest to Docklands not Connolly based on the numbers transferring at Clonsilla,
taking the Luas or simply walking that direction).

More DMU stock needs to be ordered urgently - the 2600s are over 20 years old; the 2700s will only meet existing demand - or Maynooth line electrification needs to be in the upcoming capital plan and actually start in 2018 with an EMU order.

Jamie2k9

December 2018........if driver training is sorted most likely.

Infini

They should prioritise electrification and emus over more DMUs. Would mean theyre not reliant solely on diesil for day to day running.

Should also consider a new dart depot around M3 while theyre at it plenty of space there for one.

thomasj

Infini wrote:

They should prioritise electrification and emus over more DMUs. Would mean theyre not reliant solely on diesil for day to day running.

Infini wrote:

Should also consider a new dart depot around M3 while theyre at it plenty of space there for one.

Wasn't the original plan to have a DART depot around near broombridge?

MGWR

Infini wrote: »

They should prioritise electrification and emus over more DMUs. Would mean they're not reliant solely on diesel for day to day running.

Should also consider a new DART depot around M3 while they're at it plenty of space there for one.

Electrification infrastructure is a large expense. There is a reason for dieselisation versus electrification. Also means dependence on that infrastructure for motive power, and no service when the power goes out.

L1011

Infini wrote: »

They should prioritise electrification and emus over more DMUs. Would mean theyre not reliant solely on diesil for day to day running.

Should also consider a new dart depot around M3 while theyre at it plenty of space there for one.

Considering what we generate our electrical base load from, reliance on diesel isn't an issue - emissions at breathing level and the superior performance + regenerative braking of electrics is

GM228

pad199207 wrote: »

I heard a couple of months ago that Irish Rail will be increasing the services through the Phoenix Park Tunnel during weekdays and extending them to the weekend too.

Would be so handy for the weekend.

Any news on this recently ?

That was the medium term plan when initially launched, however it is not going to be in this years timetable change (which itself is possibly on hold).

GM228

Looks like the all day service isn't too far away.

https://lovindublin.com/news/ten-minute-darts--introduced-later-this-year

Minister Ross also announced the rail link from Kildare to the city centre via the Phoenix Park rail tunnel will be expanded to an all day service.

thomond2006

I live on the DART line and get the train to Limerick every so often. Could we eventually see a possible connection between PPT and the intercity services? I know most Cork/Limerick services don't stop at Newbridge etc.

GM228

thomond2006 wrote: »

I live on the DART line and get the train to Limerick every so often. Could we eventually see a possible connection between PPT and the intercity services? I know most Cork/Limerick services don't stop at Newbridge etc.

Anything is possible (the original PPT idea was to operate to/from Kildare to connect with IC services), but nothing has been decided yet.

Rulmeq

GM228 wrote: »

Anything is possible (the original PPT idea was to operate to/from Kildare to connect with IC services), but nothing has been decided yet.

Isn't there supposed to be a new Heuston West station as part of the Dart extension project, does that mean you could change to IC from there? Or is Heuston West going to be closer to Inchicore or someting.

IrishZeus

Received a flyer recently from local TD stating that there will be a new timetable from 10th December, which will include more offpeak services through the tunnel. (Wife commutes Sallins - Connolly so it would be very ha st to have additional choices)

Would anyone have any details of the new timetable? Is it published anywhere yet?

Infini

There's a preview timetable up on the site. Has an hourly service offpeak each way up to like 23.20 or something.

IrishZeus

Infini wrote: »

There's a preview timetable up on the site. Has an hourly service offpeak each way up to like 23.20 or something.

Am I right in saying the new services are just to Hazelhatch? Doesn’t seem to be any extra trains that run offpeak to Sallins.

Jamie2k9

IrishZeus wrote: »

Am I right in saying the new services are just to Hazelhatch? Doesn’t seem to be any extra trains that run offpeak to Sallins.

Just Hazelhatch

tubbs26

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Just Hazelhatch

But the PPT services connect at Hazelhatch with pre exsiting services from Heuston to Portaloaise that serve Sallins etc.

Just checked the connection times. Range from 5-25 mins.

I commute to Hazelhatch every day. The connection works well and is becoming really popular.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/portlaoisegcd_ewd.pdf

IrishZeus

tubbs26 wrote: »

But the PPT services connect at Hazelhatch with pre exsiting services from Heuston to Portaloaise that serve Sallins etc.

Just checked the connection times. Range from 5-25 mins.

I commute to Hazelhatch every day. The connection works well and is becoming really popular.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/portlaoisegcd_ewd.pdf

Given how busy Sallins has become, I really thought they would extend more services directly to it. It must be the busiest stop on the routes at this stage?

goingnowhere

Hazelhatch was planned as the outer terminus point. It has a turnback platform.

You can't serve Sallins without going to Newbridge, so that requires more complex timetabling and extra trains.

IrishZeus

goingnowhere wrote: »

Hazelhatch was planned as the outer terminus point. It has a turnback platform.

You can't serve Sallins without going to Newbridge, so that requires more complex timetabling and extra trains.

That I did not realize. Thanks for the clarification.

Jamie2k9

tubbs26 wrote: »

But the PPT services connect at Hazelhatch with pre exsiting services from Heuston to Portaloaise that serve Sallins etc.

Just checked the connection times. Range from 5-25 mins.

I commute to Hazelhatch every day. The connection works well and is becoming really popular.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/portlaoisegcd_ewd.pdf

Yeah it works well in the evening because its not 20 minutes usually. They could operate to Newbridge if they really wanted two or at least every two hours. The unit operating the service has 15 minutes turnaround in Hazelhatch and around 1 hours in GCD. You could run to Newbridge and back and have a good 45 minute turnaround between both terminuses.

I suspect they will announce some form of shortening of connection times in the next week because if they don't its clear public consultation is worthless.

tubbs26

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yeah it works well in the evening because its not 20 minutes usually. They could operate to Newbridge if they really wanted two or at least every two hours. The unit operating the service has 15 minutes turnaround in Hazelhatch and around 1 hours in GCD. You could run to Newbridge and back and have a good 45 minute turnaround between both terminuses.

I suspect they will announce some form of shortening of connection times in the next week because if they don't its clear public consultation is worthless.

Yeah connection times should be no more than 10 minutes

NewbridgeIR

I prefer to take a direct train from Tara St to Newbridge but the last one is 6:22pm and I sometimes work later. To be fair, getting the Hazelhatch one and getting off at Park West and waiting for the Portlaoise train isn't a major issue. Beats having to go to Heuston which is a pain in the evenings. However it's still quite a slow service - frequent pauses between Drumcondra and Connolly and occasionally late departures from Newbridge.
On a Friday, I usually take the "red eye express" from Newbridge at 6:05am which goes non-stop to Heuston and I can be at my desk at around 6:50am.

silverharp

i work in park west and if not cycling use dart and train changing in pearse. lovely little route, nice trains and going against the "traffic", carriages never get beyond 50% full. Used to be frustrated how slow it was but enjoy it now, bring a coffee, load up a vid or podcast and relax. More frequency the better. its a little unnerving that the "last train" in the morning is a quarter past eight or so

Jamie2k9

First day of extra services and one train was terminated at Heuston for "operational reasons"...

Lord Glentoran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

First day of extra services and one train was terminated at Heuston for "operational reasons"...

When?

It would of course be worthy of note if it ran from GCD and terminated at Heuston!

silverharp

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

When?

It would of course be worthy of note if it ran from GCD and terminated at Heuston!

if I remember it was a ~7am going into town

IrishZeus

7.27am Sallins - GCD yesterday never showed up....

Jamie2k9

IrishZeus wrote: »

7.27am Sallins - GCD yesterday never showed up....

Fault problems, not suprised was on it the set involved Sunday and could tell it was going to cause problems very soon!

The service I was refering was an off peak service terminating at Heuston yesterday on its first day.

Thrashssacre

Has a 29000 been used on a hazel hatch service yet? At peak times the 4 car icr is just not up to it, people fainting squashed against the door ect..... cab it even be strengthened to a 7 car icr or are platform lengths a problem? (I’m thinking the bay at hazel hatch is the problem here but there are 4 other platforms there)

L1011

No 29000s available at peak, suspect M3 might have more claim on any spare capacity first but as it stands the next capacity to arrive may be the additional 22k trailers anyway

Jamie2k9

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Has a 29000 been used on a hazel hatch service yet? At peak times the 4 car icr is just not up to it, people fainting squashed against the door ect..... cab it even be strengthened to a 7 car icr or are platform lengths a problem? (I’m thinking the bay at hazel hatch is the problem here but there are 4 other platforms there)

Just curious which service in particular are you referring to, I have taken them regularly in morning/evening and while busy I don't think its massively overcrowded for a ICR if compared to Maynooth/M3.

L1011

That we're comparing levels of overcrowding on what are designed to be seated sets is just symptomatic of the lack of proper rolling stock here. On an ICR, standing at all is overcrowding. They are not designed for long-distance standing and the vestibules are inadequately cooled compared to the seating areas, which results in fainting.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

That we're comparing levels of overcrowding on what are designed to be seated sets is just symptomatic of the lack of proper rolling stock here. On an ICR, standing at all is overcrowding. They are not designed for long-distance standing and the vestibules are inadequately cooled compared to the seating areas, which results in fainting.

They vestibules are not that overcrodwed on PPT yet. Plus Connolly-ParkWest/Adamestown is not long distance to stand.

tabbey

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They vestibules are not that overcrodwed on PPT yet. Plus Connolly-ParkWest/Adamestown is not long distance to stand.

Ideally nobody should be expected to stand for more than ten minutes.

Standing for more than twenty minutes is a health and safety risk for many of us.

SeanW

More services on the PPT line would be a welcome near-term development, I remember last year I was often commuting from Park West and the gaps in the timetable were shocking.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

Ideally nobody should be expected to stand for more than ten minutes.

Standing for more than twenty minutes is a health and safety risk for many of us.

10 minutes, get a grip (excluding medical)!

What's happening is people are standing for 90 minutes now this is not acceptable. 20-25 minutes ideally would be maximum at peak times.

L1011

20-25mins on a train that is designed for standing pax, maybe. The 22ks are not designed for any standing pax.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

20-25mins on a train that is designed for standing pax, maybe. The 22ks are not designed for any standing pax.

The 22k may not be explicitly designed for standing but a modest number standing is acceptable.

I am not saying they are suitable for commuter traffic but at the minute existing capacity is coping reasonably well.

Thrashssacre

In general they cope but on the half 5 service I’ve been pushed up against the door in the vestibule and had someone practically beg for a bottle of water because they were sure they would faint (wasn’t even a particularly hot or even remotely warm day) the 22ks just aren’t suitable for standing unless it’s literally a number you can count on two hands

Thrashssacre

Personality I believe one of the edge of peak services on the maynooth line should be reduced to 4 car to allow the half 5 ppt service to grand canal docks to be a 29k

NewbridgeIR

That 5.35pm service ex-Tara is unpleasantly full. I avoid if it all possible. The 4:47pm or 6:22pm are much better. Or getting one of the Hazlehatch services snd changing at Park West for the Portlaoise train isn’t a bad option either.

IrishZeus

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They vestibules are not that overcrodwed on PPT yet. Plus Connolly-ParkWest/Adamestown is not long distance to stand.

My wife described the PPT train yesterday as being like the Luas at rush hour. Standing room only, and she needed to squeeze at that. She was between carriages as the aisles were also completely full and no one could move further up/down. (On at Sallins, off at GCD)

I can assure you that some of the services are very overcrowded.

thomond2006

Those (intercity) trains are very comfy to sit on but they're definitely not suitable for standing.

Ireland trains

Irish rail need 85% fleet available at peak times which i dont know if thats good or bad but im my opinion they should be trying to use all the trains they have (maby 1/2 in maintanence)

NewbridgeIR

IrishZeus wrote: »

My wife described the PPT train yesterday as being like the Luas at rush hour. Standing room only, and she needed to squeeze at that. She was between carriages as the aisles were also completely full and no one could move further up/down. (On at Sallins, off at GCD)

I can assure you that some of the services are very overcrowded.

Morning 7.00am train is not full at Newbridge. There is a massive influx at Sallins (the start of the cheap ticket zone) and it’s jammed thereafter.

Jamie2k9

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

That 5.35pm service ex-Tara is unpleasantly full. I avoid if it all possible. The 4:47pm or 6:22pm are much better. Or getting one of the Hazlehatch services snd changing at Park West for the Portlaoise train isn’t a bad option either.

I was on it yesterday and while its probably the bussiest peak service. Adding extra capacity would be good but I don't think it justifies it yet because a 5 car is unlikely available and that manes 6/7 car train which is way to much.

Irish rail need 85% fleet available at peak times which i dont know if thats good or bad but im my opinion they should be trying to use all the trains they have (maby 1/2 in maintanence)

It would be considered good if not slightly above average.

silverharp

lovely train going the other way, get a nice 4 seater to myself at gcd, bring a flask of coffee and my breakfast, very civilised :pac:

silverharp

Is there anyway to tell in advance which end of the train the bike storage is? had a puncture so got the train back to Pearse but it seems to be a 50/50 guess?