Social Welfare Question

Cornflakes132

Hi all, new enough here, I have a question about social welfare payments and means testing.

So my story, and question

I work full time and earn 29000 a year and pay rent.
I have a girlfriend that was pushed out of her home and is now living with me
She has changed her previous address to this address
She is currently on Basic Supplementary Welfare at about 190 per week
The social welfare have told her that she is now living with somebody that she will be means tested and they are asking for my payslip..
She is on the waiting list for a disability claim that is apparently also means tested.

If I give them my payslip (I may refuse as I don't think its their business) after reading here Im pretty sure she will get nothing or at least very little.

We are not married, we have no kids, I have my life in order, as in the way I like it. Not to sound selfish but I don't think I should have to pay for my girlfriend to simply live just because I have a good job. I have my own expenses and responsibilities.

Now I could be wrong, this is why I am posting. What Is going to happen, how much will she get? What are the options?

Thanks in advance

beechwood55

Has she asked or been told what will happen if you don't supply the required information?

Cornflakes132

she has been told that if she doesn't provide all the information her payment will be cut completely

splinter65

I’m assuming that she doesn’t have enough PRSI paid/credited to get benefits, so she’s asking to be means tested for an “allowance”.
So she doesn’t have a job/not fit through illness or injury to look for work, and she needs money to live from week to week.
So the SW ask her what her domestic arrangements are and she has told them that she is now living with her partner as he has invited her to come and live in his home.
So now they say well, let us see what his financial circumstances are and we’ll decide wether or not he can support you himself.
Depending on wether the 29000 is gross or net, she may get €30 per week.
Your expenses haven’t changed per week apart from extra groceries. The €30 should cover that.
If she doesn’t supply your pay slips her claim will be closed.

Cornflakes132

hi splinter,
as I said she isn't my responsibility, she has nowhere to go, if for arguments sake they gave her 30e a week that isn't going to touch, electricity, food and everything else, I know its only an estimate. But I'm not in a position to provide the social welfare with bank statements and payslips, its frankly none of their business. Therefore no doubt she will get nothing

Is there anything that I can say to them that I am not going to be held responsible for her financially and I'm just giving her a place to stay.

I mean we are not married and we have no legal attachment.

njs030

Cornflakes132 wrote: »

hi splinter,
as I said she isn't my responsibility, she has nowhere to go, if for arguments sake they gave her 30e a week that isn't going to touch, electricity, food and everything else, I know its only an estimate. But I'm not in a position to provide the social welfare with bank statements and payslips, its frankly none of their business. Therefore no doubt she will get nothing

Is there anything that I can say to them that I am not going to be held responsible for her financially and I'm just giving her a place to stay.

I mean we are not married and we have no legal attachment.

If you don't want her to be means tested as a cohabiting couple then perhaps you could ask her to move out?
The rule has to be the same for everyone and you are living together as a couple not as flatmates.

Hitman3000

Cornflakes132 wrote:

I mean we are not married and we have no legal attachment.

If you're going to cohabit your income is taken into consideration. You don't provide the requested info she gets little or nothing. Can't see the issue. Plenty of couples living on a lot less than your income without resorting to SW.

January

If you are cohabiting then she will be means tested on your income, if you refuse to furnish that information she will be cut off completely. Your only options here are to either give up the information and she'll get a means-tested rate, don't give up the info and she'll get nothing or ask her to move out and she'll get her rate based on her own means, or her parents means if she's under a certain age.

Cornflakes132

Hitman3000 wrote: »

If you're going to cohabit your income is taken into consideration. You don't provide the requested info she gets little or nothing. Can't see the issue. Plenty of couples living on a lot less than your income without resorting to SW.

oh and I understand that, and I'm not trying to get under anyones skin.

I'm just saying that I have other expenses to take into account, its not like I'm rolling in it.

I know I'm coming accross as an arse saying I don't want to support her, I mean she would be better off financially getting rent allowance and getting an apartment of her own, this makes no sense to me

emeldc

I would imagine if your GF told SW that you were living as a couple she has shot herself in the foot so to speak. If you were flatmates............

rawn

Cornflakes132 wrote:

Is there anything that I can say to them that I am not going to be held responsible for her financially and I'm just giving her a place to stay.

I don't understand your stance to be honest. Why wouldn't you give them to info they need, for your girlfriends sake? If she's been kicked out and dealing with disabilities she must be feeling pretty low. Give them the info, she'll get what she gets. Support her until she can support herself. She can pick herself up given time, you are in a position to help her do that and I'm presuming you care about her so why not help her?

Cornflakes132

January wrote: »

If you are cohabiting then she will be means tested on your income, if you refuse to furnish that information she will be cut off completely. Your only options here are to either give up the information and she'll get a means-tested rate, don't give up the info and she'll get nothing or ask her to move out and she'll get her rate based on her own means, or her parents means if she's under a certain age.

can she not effectively rent a room from me? what would be the case if we weren't going out?
I mean I know that people do share/rent rooms and not get means tested on everybody else in the house, or am I wrong?

rawn

Cornflakes132 wrote:

can she not effectively rent a room from me? what would be the case if we weren't going out? I mean I know that people do share/rent rooms and not get means tested on everybody else in the house, or am I wrong?

Not if the SW have been told you're in a relationship. Also they'd want to see a lease agreement stating she lives there and may inspect to ensure you're not sharing a room.

splinter65

It’s very hard to explain but look at it this way.
Firstly being married or not has no bearing one way or the other.
You were living there and paying rent/mortgage and utilities before she moved in and your rent/mortgage and utilities are not going to increase because she has moved in so you are not out of pocket in any way for her coming to live with you.
She’s possibly going to get €30 maybe which as I said should cover extra food.
SWA is exactly what it is .
It’s a payment to cover rent utilities food heat .
As your girlfriend doesn’t have any of these expenses (as you already have them covered) then she doesn’t need help with any of this from the State.
She’s not your lodger she’s someone you are obviously in a committed relationship with and you both will now have the benefit of enjoying one another’s company.
She does have other choices.
She can look for her own place to live and she would get her payment and help with the rent subject to conditions.
By all means refuse to send the pay slip but it’s not optional for her, it’s the law and her claim will be closed if she can’t fulfill her obligations as part of the claims process.

Cornflakes132

rawn wrote: »

I don't understand your stance to be honest. Why wouldn't you give them to info they need, for your girlfriends sake? If she's been kicked out and dealing with disabilities she must be feeling pretty low. Give them the info, she'll get what she gets. Support her until she can support herself. She can pick herself up given time, you are in a position to help her do that and I'm presuming you care about her so why not help her?

The relationship is rocky anyway, her disability is anxiety, which I don't totally understand, She won't get a job, but I won't see her on the street either and her family aren't talking to her. She was previously living with her family who moved house and wouldn't let her stay at the new one. She is feeling down and I'm not reflecting this thread onto her. its not her fault, I'm just looking for options

Dr Brown

emeldc wrote: »

I would imagine if your GF told SW that you were living as a couple she has shot herself in the foot so to speak. If you were flatmates............

Do I have this right if they are were just "friends" she would be entitled to full benefits but because they are having sex her benefits are slashed.

It sounds like a tax on sex to me.

splinter65

Cornflakes132 wrote: »

The relationship is rocky anyway, her disability is anxiety, which I don't totally understand, She won't get a job, but I won't see her on the street either and her family aren't talking to her. She was previously living with her family who moved house and wouldn't let her stay at the new one. She is feeling down and I'm not reflecting this thread onto her. its not her fault, I'm just looking for options

You have the option to help her to look for somewhere else to live and set a moving out date deadline for her .
You can’t decide to be magnanimous and then demand that the state foot the bill.

MouseTail

It doesn't sound that stable or committed a relationship, I think the best option here is for her to build bridges with her family and move back with them. She could talk to NLN also about training or supported employment. I think you need to be honest with her, and tell her you are not willing to financially support her so she can plan from there.

Hitman3000

emeldc wrote:

I would imagine if your GF told SW that you were living as a couple she has shot herself in the foot so to speak. If you were flatmates............

Horse and gate spring to mind.

cee_jay

emeldc wrote: »

I would imagine if your GF told SW that you were living as a couple she has shot herself in the foot so to speak. If you were flatmates............

Do not hint at or even allude to SW fraud on this forum.

njs030

Cornflakes132 wrote: »

can she not effectively rent a room from me? what would be the case if we weren't going out?
I mean I know that people do share/rent rooms and not get means tested on everybody else in the house, or am I wrong?

You mean lie and commit welfare fraud? No she can't do that because she isn't renting a room from you she's sharing a room with you!

What would be the case if you weren't together? That's a good question op, she would have to sort out her family problems I would guess.

Rubberchikken

You're willingness to be kind to her and not see her homeless isn't going to stop SW requesting your info. They will give her nothing if you don't and if you do she may end up with very little anyway.its the way the system works.
If you don't understand her anxiety may qualify her for disability then maybe you should be looking deeper at the relationship.
I realise she's in a tough place. You don't sound like a bad person just someone who's trying to be decent but dealing with a tricky situation

my3cents

Just a thought here?

If the OP provides the information and say the GF gets €30 a week is there any possibility that will improve if she manages to get disability?

Only asking as it may be a good reason for the OP to provide the info?

January

my3cents wrote: »

Just a thought here?

If the OP provides the information and say the GF gets €30 a week is there any possibility that will improve if she manages to get disability?

Only asking as it may be a good reason for the OP to provide the info?

That will be her disability payment.

Cornflakes132

I appreciate all of the comments, getting some good info here..

just on one of the last comments..

whether or not I provide my documents will this affect her disability when it comes through

as in if she's granted 30 per week now will that remain on disability

I don't know if disability is means tested

_Brian

How can you not be on a position to give payslips ?

You may not want to, that’s a different thing. But your legally obliged to receive them from your employer so I don’t understand what position other than you refusing there could be.

How about the rent a room scheme ?
Could you register for that and charge her €20/week, provide her with a contract for SW.

njs030

Cornflakes132 wrote: »

I appreciate all of the comments, getting some good info here..

just on one of the last comments..

whether or not I provide my documents will this affect her disability when it comes through

as in if she's granted 30 per week now will that remain on disability

I don't know if disability is means tested

Disability is also means tested yes.

It's also very very hard to get and anxiety is extremely hard to prove so she shouldn't be dependent on getting it anyway.

_Brian wrote: »

.

How about the rent a room scheme ?
Could you register for that and charge her €20/week, provide her with a contract for SW.

She's not renting a room so it would be welfare fraud.

_Brian

notjustsweet wrote: »

She's not renting a room so it would be welfare fraud.

What’s to stop her starting to rent a room ??
Nothing to prevent the relationship changing from its current form to a professional landlord - tenant one, or licensee or whatever the term in rent a room is.

splinter65

Cornflakes132 wrote: »

I appreciate all of the comments, getting some good info here..

just on one of the last comments..

whether or not I provide my documents will this affect her disability when it comes through

as in if she's granted 30 per week now will that remain on disability

I don't know if disability is means tested

Disability is means tested just the same.

splinter65

_Brian wrote: »

What’s to stop her starting to rent a room ??
Nothing to prevent the relationship changing from its current form to a professional landlord - tenant one, or licensee or whatever the term in rent a room is.

This would be supposing that SW staff are idiots, and they’re not.

_Brian

splinter65 wrote: »

This would be supposing that SW staff are idiots, and they’re not.

Not all of them, I’ll agree on that. Deal with them a fair bit.

GarIT

Dr Brown wrote: »

Do I have this right if they are were just "friends" she would be entitled to full benefits but because they are having sex her benefits are slashed.

It sounds like a tax on sex to me.

Yes. If you were just friends you would be friends with benefits. Because you are a couple you are in a relationship without benefits.

Cornflakes132

GarIT wrote: »

Yes. If you were just friends you would be friends with benefits. Because you are a couple you are in a relationship without benefits.

hahaha

Hitman3000

_Brian wrote:

How about the rent a room scheme ? Could you register for that and charge her €20/week, provide her with a contract for SW.

She has already told SW that she is in a relationship with the OP.

Hitman3000

_Brian wrote:

What’s to stop her starting to rent a room ?? Nothing to prevent the relationship changing from its current form to a professional landlord - tenant one, or licensee or whatever the term in rent a room is.

Yeah that wouldn't appear suspicious to SW at all. Great idea.

Rubberchikken

I'm sure disability is means tested. Also its very difficult to get. There is a strong onus on the applicant to prove the disability exists with backup information from.medical professionals.

Dr Brown

splinter65 wrote: »

This would be supposing that SW staff are idiots, and they’re not.

It may look suspect but how would the SW know(or prove) that they were no longer in a sexual relationship and are now just "friends" unless the SW put a camera in OP's bedroom.

The SW can only go on the evidence that is put in front of them.

cee_jay

Dr Brown wrote: »

It may look suspect but how would the SW know(or prove) that they were no longer in a sexual relationship and are now just "friends" unless the SW put a camera in OP's bedroom.

The SW can only go on the evidence that is put in front of them.

Because that would be SW fraud and the OP has said they are in a relationship, and his girlfriend has already given this information to SW.

Any further discussion along these lines will result in bans from the forum. Posters are advised to read the forum charter.

January

Dr Brown wrote: »

It may look suspect but how would the SW know(or prove) that they were no longer in a sexual relationship and are now just "friends" unless the SW put a camera in OP's bedroom.

The SW can only go on the evidence that is put in front of them.

Because theyve hired private investigators in the past to figure this out. They trawl fb profiles (and be assured locking down your profile will do nothing to stop this) and instagram. They visit your home randomly and can ask to see your room and look in your wardrobes.

MouseTail

How would the girlfriend produce a lease, who would register the tenancy with the RTB, how would she produce evidence of rent paid and to whom, the OP's Landlord?

splinter65

Dr Brown wrote: »

It may look suspect but how would the SW know(or prove) that they were no longer in a sexual relationship and are now just "friends" unless the SW put a camera in OP's bedroom.

The SW can only go on the evidence that is put in front of them.

That’s not how that works.
A SW inspector does an inspection including visiting the home of the claimant and observing the comings and going’s over a period of time.
The inspector has very extensive powers.
The Inspector compiles a report and gives the report to the Deciding Officer dealing with the claim.
The DO then makes, well, a decision.
Once that decision is made then the claimant can appeal but it is up to the claimant to prove that there is no co-habitation.
The DOs decision stands while the Appeal is being heard.
The claimant would have to put forward new evidence.

splinter65

MouseTail wrote: »

How would the girlfriend produce a lease, who would register the tenancy with the RTB, how would she produce evidence of rent paid and to whom, the OP's Landlord?

Incidentally, renting a room from someone else who lives there means that you are a “licensee” not a tenant and there is no lease necessary, neither do you enjoy any of the protection of the PRTB including notice periods etc.

Dr Brown

January wrote: »

They visit your home randomly and can ask to see your room and look in your wardrobes.

Thats a gross invasion of privacy.

Only the police should have the power to do that with serious criminals.

splinter65

Dr Brown wrote: »

Thats a gross invasion of privacy.

Only the police should have the power to do that with serious criminals.

If you have nothing to hide and you’ve told the truth then you’ve nothing to worry about.
If you have no entitlement to “benefits” then your asking for an “allowance” which will be means tested.
It would be very foolish for the SW, who are charged with making payments to claimants, to just take at face value the statements that claimants make.

my3cents

Dr Brown wrote: »

Thats a gross invasion of privacy.

Only the police should have the power to do that with serious criminals.

They can call to your house but they have no right of entry.

splinter65

my3cents wrote: »

They can call to your house but they have no right of entry.

....and no obligation to make a payment either.
In your letter of refusal they will quote a piece of legislation, the SW Consolidation Act (2005) and state that you have
“Failed to disclose your means”.
And you will have a right to Appeal, in which you will either disclose your means or demonstrate how you did not fail to disclose your means but you won’t get a payment until your appeal has been both heard and allowed.

Dr Brown

What if the person who lives in the house is renting a room and was told they can't invite people into the house ?

Nomis21

I think you should avoid social welfare altogether. It will cost very little to support your girlfriend and if you think that she is not worth helping her for the lift!e it will cost you then I think that the relationship is looking very rocky and you might be better off on your own.

She is applying for disability. Why not wait and see how that goes?

GarIT

Nomis21 wrote: »

I think you should avoid social welfare altogether. It will cost very little to support your girlfriend and if you think that she is not worth helping her for the lift!e it will cost you then I think that the relationship is looking very rocky and you might be better off on your own.

She is applying for disability. Why not wait and see how that goes?

I think it's a bit unfair to be commenting on his relationship. If I was frequently having sex with someone but not dating them I'd probably call it a relationship, if they were then becoming homeless I'd probably invite them in. That doesn't mean I should support them.

OP just so you know if you do end up supporting her somewhat, you may be able to use her tax credits saving you a decent bit.

beechwood55

GarIT wrote: »

I think it's a bit unfair to be commenting on his relationship. If I was frequently having sex with someone but not dating them I'd probably call it a relationship, if they were then becoming homeless I'd probably invite them in. That doesn't mean I should support them.

OP just so you know if you do end up supporting her somewhat, you may be able to use her tax credits saving you a decent bit.

He won't. Tax credits are only transferable between married couples or those in civil partnerships.

splinter65

GarIT wrote: »

I think it's a bit unfair to be commenting on his relationship. If I was frequently having sex with someone but not dating them I'd probably call it a relationship, if they were then becoming homeless I'd probably invite them in. That doesn't mean I should support them.

OP just so you know if you do end up supporting her somewhat, you may be able to use her tax credits saving you a decent bit.

Tax credit transfers only apply to married couples.
If it were otherwise you would have a situation where people were availing of tax credits belonging to someone they went out with for a few months ten years ago.