Charge point install

styo

HI, so I'm planning to have a home charger installed. The Rolec type 2 32A has been recommended to me. ie. http://assets.rolecserv.com/files/products_document/7e33a9b48224f905e99664751d240c75/EVWPD004%20-%20WALLPOD%20EV%20HomeCharge%20IEC%2062196%20tethered%20(Type%202)%20Mode%203.pdf

I am planning to buy myself and have a local electrician do the install. I have a basic question, which concerns the wiring of the unit. Does the electrician wire it to the "fuse board" or to the meter box (where the meter etc. is)?

I ask because the meter box is perfectly located, the ideal place for the wall charge is within feet of it, whereas the fuse box is located some 40 feet away at the other side of the house.

thanks in advance,

Stephen.

KCross

To the fuse board.

Technically you are not supposed to wire anything inside the meter box unless you "tap off" another fuse board from it.

Bear in mind the EVSE will need its own circuit breaker so its best to have that in the same place as all your other breakers.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

To the fuse board.

Technically you are not supposed to wire anything inside the meter box unless you "tap off" another fuse board from it.

Bear in mind the EVSE will need its own circuit breaker so its best to have that in the same place as all your other breakers.

There is nothing to stop a registered electrician creating a 2nd distribution box/consumer unit located in the meter box. The breakers for the charge point can then be installed there

Iamfree

BoatMad wrote: »

There is nothing to stop a registered electrician creating a 2nd distribution box/consumer unit located in the meter box. The breakers for the charge point can then be installed there

This is exactly the solution I would prefer. (rather than drilling through walls and running cables along the backside of the house)
In addition I have already requested a night electricity meter to be installed by the ESB.
My electrician that is installing the car charger seems to be reluctant to put a second consumer unit (fuse board) into the ESB box. Am I right to say that once that is done and the cabling work is certified by him, I then ring the ESB and have them connect the tails to the meter as an additional connection (and at a fee of course)

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

This is exactly the solution I would prefer. (rather than drilling through walls and running cables along the backside of the house)
In addition I have already requested a night electricity meter to be installed by the ESB.

I thought the inside of the meter box was considered off limits to the house owner from a wiring perspective. That is probably why your spark is reluctant to add a CU inside the meter box.

You can, of course, have a second CU outside/alongside the meter box.

Iamfree wrote: »

My electrician that is installing the car charger seems to be reluctant to put a second consumer unit (fuse board) into the ESB box. Am I right to say that once that is done and the cabling work is certified by him, I then ring the ESB and have them connect the tails to the meter as an additional connection (and at a fee of course)

What do you mean by that?

When you get a night rate meter all they do is take out the existing meter and put in the new one and thats it. There is no additional connection and it can be done at any point, i.e. you don't have to wait for your electrician to signoff anything in advance, its all done by ESB Networks and is free.

Adding a second CU is between you and your spark and obviously you pay him for that. ESB Networks are not involved in that.

17larsson

If you were to do it you would have to make sure the main breaker in the meter box is a suitably rated MCB and not just an isolator. You would then wire out of that main MCB to the main tails going to your house and also to the bottom of your new RCBO.

Although if you have an electric shower or other heavy load you would need to wire back to the fuseboard and put a priority unit inside/beside the board.

In saying all that it is not actually allowed yet to fit the RCBO in the meter box. There could be changes coming soon on that though but they are not in yet

Iamfree

OK - I begin to understand - thanks to all!
In summary -
1. The meter box is out of bounds -
2. I need to get the electrician to install an RCBO outside the meter box with tails to inside the meter box.
3a. When ESB is upgrading to night meter I need to ask them to install a meter with an MCB rated main braker in the meter box,
I need to ask them to disconnect the tails to the current Consumer unit,
3b. Connect the tails of the new RCBO to the MCB rated braker
3c. ESB - or Electrician - then to connect the tails of the existing Consumer unit to the RCBO - in fact splitting the supply at this stage
4. Electrician can then wire the Car charger into the new RCBO box (alongside the tails for the existing consumer unit which becomes a sub board)

Did I get it?

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

OK - I begin to understand - thanks to all!
In summary -
1. The meter box is out of bounds -
2. I need to get the electrician to install an RCBO outside the meter box with tails to inside the meter box.
3a. When ESB is upgrading to night meter I need to ask them to install a meter with an MCB rated main braker in the meter box,
I need to ask them to disconnect the tails to the current Consumer unit,
3b. Connect the tails of the new RCBO to the MCB rated braker
3c. ESB - or Electrician - then to connect the tails of the existing Consumer unit to the RCBO - in fact splitting the supply at this stage
4. Electrician can then wire the Car charger into the new RCBO box (alongside the tails for the existing consumer unit which becomes a sub board)

Did I get it?

Hmm... not sure if you have it right or not.

Can I ask, before we go any further, what exactly are you trying to achieve at a high level.... forget about night meters and extra CU's.... is it just that you want to install an EV charge point?

Why complicate it with a new CU... why not just wire it from the existing CU. It might be a longer run of cable but it could also be less money to run that cable than to install a new CU... very much depends on your site.


Also, on point 3a above.... ESB won't be installing any MCB's or doing anything with your tails.... they just swap out the meter and thats it. Its up to your spark to do everything else.

Iamfree

High level - my Consumer Unit is at the other end of the house and in the middle of the house. To get a cable from there to the location where the charger is going to be requires drilling through 6 walls (4 of which are external walls) and running cable in ducts through the house and along the backside of the house.
All I want is a second Consumer unit, close to the meter, where the car charger will ultimately be.

I understand that I can not just split the tails that go to my current consumer unit and branch off a second one (overall load protection issue)
So my understanding is the ESB is the only one who can switch tails.
I need to have an electrician install an external Consumer Unit close to the meter which becomes the Primary (1) and is connected to the meter tails. (the ESB will have to connect the tails to the meter)
I then need to make my current consumer Unit a sub board wired into the new External unit (by switching the current tails and wire into the new unit instead of the meter)

17larsson

Forget about the ESB, they only replace the meter.

I don't know what's already there but what should be there, if you do this, is a 63A MCB as the main breaker for everything. This is inside the meter box.
This supplies the main tails for the house and also the RCBO that you are planning on putting in a board outside the meter box.

The electrician does all those connections including connecting into the outgoing side of the ESB meter

Iamfree

There is no MCB in my meter box or anything that is unsealed where an electrician could hook anything up to.

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

There is no MCB in my meter box or anything that is unsealed where an electrician could hook anything up to.

The ESB 60A fuse is in a plain black box beneath the meter. It usually has "60A/80A" written on it with 60A being the default unless you paid extra for the 80A fuse (upgraded 16kVA connection).

The latest day/night meters usually have an unsealed cover that the electrician can open to add tails to any new CU you decide to install.


The ESB have nothing to with your tails. Thats between you and your electrician. The ESB own everything up to the meter. Everything (including tails) from there in, is yours.

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

High level - my Consumer Unit is at the other end of the house and in the middle of the house. To get a cable from there to the location where the charger is going to be requires drilling through 6 walls (4 of which are external walls) and running cable in ducts through the house and along the backside of the house.
All I want is a second Consumer unit, close to the meter, where the car charger will ultimately be.

Fair enough. No possibility of going into attic space?

Iamfree

yes - there is a fuse - but not an MCB - and the fuse (and connectors) has a seal.

KCross

@iamfree, This might make it clearer for you.

Iamfree

So - here are the questions - 
1. Two electricians so far have said they can not do anything inside this box? what are they allowed to do? (Assuming I get a meter with a breaker as suggested by KCross - I will request this from the ESB)
2. I am under the impression that I am not allowed to just split the supply at that point where the tails are connected to the meter - am I right?
3. what do I need to do (or ask for) to connect a second consumer unit (that will be right beside this box) connected to this meter (without having to connect it to the existing Consumer unit) ?

17larsson

The electrician connects one live cable from the outgoing side of the meter into the bottom of a 63A MCB.
From the top of the 63A MCB are two cables. One going to your house and one going to the RCBO which you are going to mount outside the meter box.
Inside at your main board the electrician will replace the existing 63A MCB or fuse with an isolator

Iamfree

@Larsson - Thanks! - so what you are saying is that I am allowed to split the supply after the Meter (and after a newly installed 63A MBC) into two separate supplies to two separate consumer units?
Two electricians have so far refused to do this (apparently this is not regulation and they are not allowed to do this).
Also stating that you can only split the supply AFTER the RCBO (Primary Consumer Unit) and can only branch off into other consumer units (secondary Units) from there?
So who is right? Where do I find an electrician that will do this? (provided it is legal)

BoatMad

Iamfree wrote: »

@Larsson - Thanks! - so what you are saying is that I am allowed to split the supply after the Meter (and after a newly installed 63A MBC) into two separate supplies to two separate consumer units?
Two electricians have so far refused to do this (apparently this is not regulation and they are not allowed to do this).
Also stating that you can only split the supply AFTER the RCBO (Primary Consumer Unit) and can only branch off into other consumer units (secondary Units) from there?
So who is right? Where do I find an electrician that will do this? (provided it is legal)

I dont have access to my copy of the wiring rules as I lent it to a friend, Ill get it back next week

AFAIK, its not against the rules to have multiple CUs wired to the meter , what electricians say are the regulations and actually what they really are are sometimes very different .

I would suggest you contact Nigel Daley and ask his opinion

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

So - here are the questions - 
1. Two electricians so far have said they can not do anything inside this box? what are they allowed to do?

Ultimately you have to ensure that with both CU's loaded that you don't blow the main ESB fuse.


For example, if CU 1 has a 63A fuse and you tap off a second CU from the meter as well and it also has a 63A fuse then clearly you will blow the main ESB fuse if you load the two CU's.

The idea is that your own house fuses should blow before the ESB fuse.

Thats what 17larsson has described above. The first CU has a 63A fuse and the second CU is tapped off of that 63A fuse(not from the meter). No matter what happens then between the two CU's you can only draw 63A and thus protecting the ESB fuse from blowing.

If you blow your ESB fuse you have to call them out and they charge you for it!

Iamfree

KCross - That is why Boat Mad suggests a 63A MCB AFTER the meter and tap off both CU's from there - This MCB is different to the FUSE which is in front of the meter.

KCross

Iamfree wrote: »

KCross - That is why Boat Mad suggests a 63A MCB AFTER the meter and tap off both CU's from there - This MCB is different to the FUSE which is in front of the meter.

I think it was 17larsson said it, but yes.

If two sparks have told you they are not allowed to wire two CU's independently to the meter then it sounds like you can't.

It shouldn't matter to you though.

You mount a new CU next to your meter box and have a short tails from the meter to it. That CU will have a 63A RCBO.

You then shift the current tails and use it to connect the old CU to the new CU.

The whole thing is still bound by the 63A RCBO so the ESB fuse is protected.

Iamfree

exactly - that is exactly what I already proposed yesterday.... 
ESB coming on Monday - they will tell me what i can or can not do as there seems to be differing opinions here.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

I think it was 17larsson said it, but yes.

If two sparks have told you they are not allowed to wire two CU's independently to the meter then it sounds like you can't.

It shouldn't matter to you though.

You mount a new CU next to your meter box and have a short tails from the meter to it. That CU will have a 63A RCBO.

You then shift the current tails and use it to connect the old CU to the new CU.

The whole thing is still bound by the 63A RCBO so the ESB fuse is protected.

I presume you mean " you " as in a qualified RECI electrician

BoatMad

Iamfree wrote: »

exactly - that is exactly what I already proposed yesterday.... 
ESB coming on Monday - they will tell me what i can or can not do as there seems to be differing opinions here.

The wiring rules do not specify what the main breaker in a domestic installation should be , its up to the installing electrician to decide that

so two CUs should have there main breakers modified to ensure that the total rating doesn't exceed the ESB fuse

of course this isnt great from the House supply , so feeding the car from the single house CU is a better option

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I presume you mean " you " as in a qualified RECI electrician

Of course, the OP has said they are working with an electrician so there was no suggestion they were doing this themselves.

goz83

KCross wrote: »

If you blow your ESB fuse you have to call them out and they charge you for it!

Slightly OT - I was demolishing my shed a couple of months ago which had a power supply. So I am ripping out the electric cables and the last one won’t come out of the mini fuse board. I give unit a whack with a spade to knock it off the wall and there is a loud pop and spark. Of course, the builder hadn’t disconnected the supply the previous day like he said. I should have double checked. The ESB fuse blew.

Called them out. Old fuse replaced at no charge. Delighted. If he had gone and investigated the reason for the fuse blowing, I may well have been charged, but twice ignorant and thankfully it was all resolved.

DM1983

Hi All,

Just bought a Leaf from the UK so I need to get my home charger sorted. The car only has the 3.3KW charger but I hear everyone on here recommending the 32A home charger for future proofing. Is there any issue with attaching a 32A charger like the Rolec ones to my 3.3KW onboard charger?

Thanks in advance.

zoom_cool

Dmangan wrote: »

Hi All,

Just bought a Leaf from the UK so I need to get my home charger sorted. The car only has the 3.3KW charger but I hear everyone on here recommending the 32A home charger for future proofing. Is there any issue with attaching a 32A charger like the Rolec ones to my 3.3KW onboard charger?

Thanks in advance.

No no problem

DM1983

Thanks for this. Could someone confirm that this is a good option to go for? No issue with claiming the SEAI grant after buying abroad?

I want to go tethered and I like the idea of the external 3-pin socket.

https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-multi-mode-j1772-type-1-tethered-cable-5m?variant=40494191300

They are pricey enough. Anyone know of any better deals out there?
My install should be fairly basic. The charge point will go on an external wall about 1 m away from the fusebox. From reading on here, I seem to be looking at €150-200 ish for the electrician to hook it up. If anyone could confirm or deny I would appreciate it.

goz83

Dmangan wrote: »

Thanks for this. Could someone confirm that this is a good option to go for? No issue with claiming the SEAI grant after buying abroad?

I want to go tethered and I like the idea of the external 3-pin socket.

https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-multi-mode-j1772-type-1-tethered-cable-5m?variant=40494191300

They are pricey enough. Anyone know of any better deals out there?
My install should be fairly basic. The charge point will go on an external wall about 1 m away from the fusebox. From reading on here, I seem to be looking at €150-200 ish for the electrician to hook it up. If anyone could confirm or deny I would appreciate it.

That's the one I have and I got from same place. I use it to charge both my 6.6 and 3.3 Leaf.

Electricians were quoting me stupid money when I rang for quotes...the blood suckers. If you are charged €200 or less, that's a fair price.

I don't imagine you should have trouble claiming the expense of the charger against the grant. There is no written requirement to buy from Ireland. Maybe pay by paypal which shows what you paid in Euros.

Patser

So. I just bought a tethered type 2 Rolec 32a 2nd hand but unused off ebay.co.uk for £275 delivered. Has some armoured wiring incluslded and also an ASL emlite meter that seller didn't need.

Think that's a good deal?

What the hell is a smart meter for, think he was planning something more technical than I'll need.

Patser

As per above - anyone recommend an electrician experienced in installation?

I've seen a lot of mentions here that installation should be roughly €200 since I'm supplying the charger - but talking to 3 local electricians that were recommended 2 have never installed a charger but will come have a look and then decide, another has done it once. Another that I found through Google, who expressly mentions EV charger installation, and who asked questions that showed he knew what he was talking about, just quoted my over €500 just to install.

For details, it's a Rolec going on outside of wall where meter is and with fuse box inside same wall..

unkel

That's ridiculous, it's pretty much the same as installing an outside socket. It needs its own 40A RCBO in your consumer unit and he needs to use 6mm2 wire. Any sparks can do that job if you tell him that. It sounds like the easiest possible scenario (same as mine was). I wouldn't expect to pay an awful lot more than €100 for the job (which takes about an hour) + parts (cable and RCBO come to about €40-€50)

Do you know any electrician, how about someone you have used before?

Patser

Actually worse than I thought, checking his quote again and with VAT it's €600 he wants just to install.

I've noticed that since new grant came in thus year, those installers that show up when you Google charger installation have all jumped in price a bit.


As said, I've 2 or 3 local electricians who are interested in doing the work, and thanks to your advice probably more than able, just that haven't done it before and want to come see exactly what's involved before doing it.

ted1

Patser wrote: »

Actually worse than I thought, checking his quote again and with VAT it's €600 he wants just to install.

I've noticed that since new grant came in thus year, those installers that show up when you Google charger installation have all jumped in price a bit.


As said, I've 2 or 3 local electricians who are interested in doing the work, and thanks to your advice probably more than able, just that haven't done it before and want to come see exactly what's involved before doing it.

All the electrician needs to know is the load and location. After that it’s the same as providing an out door socket.
They only need to size the cable , MCB&RCD or an RCBO. There’s nothing special about it , they connect the live , earth and neutral to the charger and that looks after itself.

Patser

Another quote in €320.....

cros13

First thing to do is NOT tell them it's an EV chargepoint when looking for quotes.
Just say "32 amp outdoor socket" and that you have the socket already.
Say 6 square mm cable must be used and that a 40 amp C-curve MCB is required.

In the case of the rolec you bought, there is an RCBO in the chargepoint already.

Patser

Haha it's madness Ted. Local electrician just showed up to have a look, and as ye say above, he's saying it's a nothing job, has decided to do it here and now for €70 + whatever certificate comes to


Where did other lads get €600???

unkel

You owe us a pint so

KCross

Patser wrote: »

Haha it's madness Ted. Local electrician just showed up to have a look, and as ye say above, he's saying it's a nothing job, has decided to do it here and now for €70 + whatever certificate comes to


Where did other lads get €600???

The grant is €600!

Ewan Hoosarmi

Just to get back to the OP. My meter box has a small consumer unit fitted inside it. This was installed by the electrician that did all of the wiring on the new build house. The meter box is ~ 20m from the house and the consumer unit in the meter box feeds 2 sheds. This work was all certified.

17larsson

cros13 wrote: »

First thing to do is NOT tell them it's an EV chargepoint when looking for quotes.
Just say "32 amp outdoor socket" and that you have the socket already.
Say 6 square mm cable must be used and that a 40 amp C-curve MCB is required.

In the case of the rolec you bought, there is an RCBO in the chargepoint already.

Why a C curve?
The earth fault loop needed for that is very low. B curve is adequate. It should be an RCBO rather than an MCB

KCross

I believe it’s to stop unnecessary tripping during high starting currents.

17larsson

KCross wrote: »

I believe it’s to stop unnecessary tripping during high starting currents.

I don't think there is high starting currents on chargers is there?
0.36 I think is the loop needed for a c40 and on some installations it could be tight getting that

Patser

So the Rolec stopped working last night - granny cable and public charger working OK.

Nothing strange to it, nothing burnt out in box, nothing looks loose, blue light on but..

Plugged it into car and nothing, bit of wiggling and got the flashing orange initialising lights off car but it never went blue and charging. I tripped the box to reset a few times and no joy. Beyond ringing electrician or replacing, anyone any ideas.

goz83

Patser wrote: »

So the Rolec stopped working last night - granny cable and public charger working OK.

Nothing strange to it, nothing burnt out in box, nothing looks loose, blue light on but..

Plugged it into car and nothing, bit of wiggling and got the flashing orange initialising lights off car but it never went blue and charging. I tripped the box to reset a few times and no joy. Beyond ringing electrician or replacing, anyone any ideas.

Type 2....is it an Ioniq you're driving?

You could try rule out a fault at the car end first. Can you plug into someones home CP near you and see if the car starts to charge? Making sure the charge timers are off. Maybe check out plugshare and ask the most local EV users if you can test your car.

Patser

goz83 wrote: »

Type 2....is it an Ioniq you're driving?

You could try rule out a fault at the car end first. Can you plug into someones home CP near you and see if the car starts to charge? Making sure the charge timers are off. Maybe check out plugshare and ask the most local EV users if you can test your car.

Type 2, it's an i3 and fairly sure it's not car. As said public chargers and granny cable work. Yep made absolutely sure car set to instant charge.

It is doing the 'handshake' initialising phase, just not moving on to charge.

Patser

Got home, plugged in, just to see if it miraculously fixed itself.

No joy, orange light

Cursed at it.

Loud clunk noise, started charging?!?!

Things fecking voice activated???

Do I still replace or hope its a once off.

Silent Running

Patser wrote: »

Got home, plugged in, just to see if it miraculously fixed itself.

No joy, orange light

Cursed at it.

Loud clunk noise, started charging?!?!

Things fecking voice activated???

Do I still replace or hope its a once off.

Does it normally clunk when it starts charging?

cros13

Silent Running wrote: »

Does it normally clunk when it starts charging?

Yes, that would be the contactors engaging.