Act that says garda can seize a car without a warrent

lifeandtimes

Hey,

I've tried but can't find it.

Can anyone link me to the road traffic act or any act actually that says a guard can seize a car for not having having tax and/or insurance and/or nct without a warrent.

I was always of the belief legally a judge needs to sign off on it but I believe I am wrong but cant prove myself wrong

Thanks

listermint

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hey,

I've tried but can't find it.

Can anyone link me to the road traffic act or any act actually that says a guard can seize a car for not having having tax and/or insurance and/or nct without a warrent.

I was always of the belief legally a judge needs to sign off on it but I believe I am wrong but can prove myself wrong

Thanks

You are 100% wrong.

Your car with no tax or no NCT can be removed from the road at any Garda discretion.

No a judge doesn't have to be involved

Graham

This looks pretty relevant:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/si/460/made/en/print
S.I. No. 460/2011 - Road Traffic Act 1994 (Detention of Vehicles) Regulations 2011.

lifeandtimes

listermint wrote: »

You are 100% wrong.

Your car with no tax or no NCT can be removed from the road at any Garda discretion.

No a judge doesn't have to be involved

Can you show me where it says the guards have the power please?

lifeandtimes

Graham wrote: »

This looks pretty relevant:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/si/460/made/en/print
S.I. No. 460/2011 - Road Traffic Act 1994 (Detention of Vehicles) Regulations 2011.

I've reviewed this and it doesn't say on it where they can detain a vehicle and why?

Graham

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I've reviewed this and it doesn't say on it where they can detain a vehicle and why?

Review the bottom of the document:

These regulations give effect to Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act 1994 in regard to Garda seizure of vehicles.

punisher5112

If your car has faulty tyres you can be fined and given points and allowed carry on which is much worse then no tax.

These measures were brought in to get more cash and also to hinder those that drive illegally.

Nct and insurance and actually holding a licence are very serious items and really should bear more extreme penalties if not held.

source

Section 41 Road Traffic Act 1994

.—(1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Justice, make regulations authorising and providing for the detention, removal, storage and subsequent release or disposal of a mechanically propelled vehicle in use in a public place where—


(a) the person driving the vehicle refuses or fails to produce there and then a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle, when production of such a licence is demanded of him by a member of the Garda Síochána under section 40 (1) of the Principal Act and the member is of opinion that the person is by reason of his age ineligible to hold a driving licence licensing him to drive the vehicle,


(b) the vehicle is or a member of the Garda Síochána reasonably believes it to be registered in the State and the member is of opinion that the vehicle is being so used in contravention of section 56 (1) of the Principal Act, or


(c) a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 3 months or more immediately prior to such use.


(2) Regulations under this section may, in particular and without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1)—


(a) authorise and provide for the recovery by such persons or classes of persons as may be specified in the regulations from the owners of vehicles detained, removed, stored, released or disposed of, of charges in accordance with a prescribed scale, in respect of such detention, removal, storage, release or disposal and for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such charges,


(b) provide for the waiver or deferral of such charges in such circumstances as may be specified in the regulations,


(c) provide for the release, by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph (a), of vehicles detained, removed or stored to such persons and upon such conditions as may be specified in the regulations,


(d) authorise and provide for the sale (or the disposal otherwise than by sale), by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph (a) of vehicles detained, removed or stored and provide for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such sale or other disposal.


(3) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, a vehicle shall not be disposed of thereunder before the expiration of a period of 6 weeks from the date of its detention or 2 weeks after notice of the intended disposal has been given in the prescribed manner, whichever is the longer.


(4) A person who obstructs or impedes, or assists another person to obstruct or impede, a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his duties under this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(5) No action shall lie in respect of anything done in good faith and without negligence in the course of the detention, removal, storage, release or disposal of a vehicle under this section.

lifeandtimes

source wrote: »

Section 41 Road Traffic Act 1994

.—(1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Justice, make regulations authorising and providing for the detention, removal, storage and subsequent release or disposal of a mechanically propelled vehicle in use in a public place where—


(a) the person driving the vehicle refuses or fails to produce there and then a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle, when production of such a licence is demanded of him by a member of the Garda Síochána under section 40 (1) of the Principal Act and the member is of opinion that the person is by reason of his age ineligible to hold a driving licence licensing him to drive the vehicle,


(b) the vehicle is or a member of the Garda Síochána reasonably believes it to be registered in the State and the member is of opinion that the vehicle is being so used in contravention of section 56 (1) of the Principal Act, or


(c) a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 3 months or more immediately prior to such use.


(2) Regulations under this section may, in particular and without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1)—


(a) authorise and provide for the recovery by such persons or classes of persons as may be specified in the regulations from the owners of vehicles detained, removed, stored, released or disposed of, of charges in accordance with a prescribed scale, in respect of such detention, removal, storage, release or disposal and for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such charges,


(b) provide for the waiver or deferral of such charges in such circumstances as may be specified in the regulations,


(c) provide for the release, by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph (a), of vehicles detained, removed or stored to such persons and upon such conditions as may be specified in the regulations,


(d) authorise and provide for the sale (or the disposal otherwise than by sale), by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph (a) of vehicles detained, removed or stored and provide for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such sale or other disposal.


(3) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, a vehicle shall not be disposed of thereunder before the expiration of a period of 6 weeks from the date of its detention or 2 weeks after notice of the intended disposal has been given in the prescribed manner, whichever is the longer.


(4) A person who obstructs or impedes, or assists another person to obstruct or impede, a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his duties under this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(5) No action shall lie in respect of anything done in good faith and without negligence in the course of the detention, removal, storage, release or disposal of a vehicle under this section.

Still not seeing it here other than not paying tax for over 3 months.

Sorry If I'm being difficult but the whole section appears to be difficult to read.

Can you reply with the section that says they can detain the vehicle or persons property without a warrent and why this allowed?

Also side question is there any credence to the saying that a guard can't seize a vehicle that is of greater value than an amount owed in Tax?

Holysock

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I've reviewed this and it doesn't say on it where they can detain a vehicle and why?

The "where" seems to be in those regulations and the "why" in section 41(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1994, as amended

"Detention of vehicles.

41.— (1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Justice, make regulations authorising and providing for the detention, removal, storage and subsequent release or disposal of a mechanically propelled vehicle in use in a public place where—

( a ) the person driving the vehicle —

(i) refuses or fails to produce there and then a driving licence or learner permit then having effect and licensing him or her to drive the vehicle, when production of such a licence is demanded of him or her by a member of the Garda S í och á na under section 40 of the Principal Act or section 61 of the Road Traffic Act 2010 and the member is of opinion that the person is by reason of his or her age ineligible to hold a driving licence or learner permit licensing him or her to drive the vehicle,

(ii) has had a driving licence or learner permit seized from him or her under section 60 of the Road Traffic Act 2010, or

(iii) is, in the opinion of a member of the Garda S í och á na, disqualified for holding a driving licence or learner permit,

( b ) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda S í och á na reasonably believes it to be in the State and the member is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of section 56(1) of the Principal Act,

( c) a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952, in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 2 months or more immediately prior to such use,

( d ) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda S í och á na is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of section 18(1) of the Principal Act,

( e ) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda S í och á na is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of Regulation 19(1) of the European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004 (S.I. No. 771 of 2004), or

( f ) in the case of a vehicle registered in another Member State, the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda S í och á na is of the opinion that it is, being so used without a proof of passing a roadworthiness test in accordance with Council Directive 96/96/EC of 20 December 1996 which is for the time being in force in respect of the vehicle. "

28064212

3. A member of the Garda Síochána is authorised in the case of a mechanically propelled vehicle referred to in section 41(1) of the Act of 1994 to detain, remove and store the vehicle and to make an arrangement with any other person for such detention, removal or storage.

Insurance:

41(1)(b) the vehicle is or a member of the Garda Síochána reasonably believes it to be registered in the State and the member is of opinion that the vehicle is being so used in contravention of section 56 (1) of the Principal Act

56.—(1) A person (in this subsection referred to as the user) shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a vehicle guarantor or an exempted person would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle by him at that time or there is in force at that time either—

(a) an approved policy of insurance whereby the user or some other person who would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user, is insured against all sums without limit (save as is hereinafter otherwise provided) which the user or his personal representative or such other person or his personal representative shall become liable to pay to any person (exclusive of the excepted persons) by way of damages or costs on account of injury to person or property caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user, or

(b) an approved guarantee whereby there is guaranteed the payment by the user, or some other person who would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user, of all sums without limit (save as is hereinafter otherwise provided) which the user or his personal representative or such other person or his personal representative shall become liable to pay to any person (exclusive of the excepted persons) by way of damages or costs on account of injury to person or property caused by the negligent use of the vehicle at that time by the user.

Tax:

a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 3 months or more immediately prior to such use.

I'm not aware of any regulation that allows seizure for no NCT (although that doesn't mean there isn't one). There is no requirement for a warrant, and there is nothing about the value of the car

Green Peter

lifeandtimes wrote:

I've tried but can't find it.

lifeandtimes wrote:

Hey,

lifeandtimes wrote:

Can anyone link me to the road traffic act or any act actually that says a guard can seize a car for not having having tax and/or insurance and/or nct without a warrent.

lifeandtimes wrote:

I was always of the belief legally a judge needs to sign off on it but I believe I am wrong but cant prove myself wrong

lifeandtimes wrote:

Thanks

Pay your taxes like every one else and you won't have any problems. It's the rest of us that have to foot the bill for people like you. Typical looking for a technicality, hope he throws the book at you!

lifeandtimes

Green Peter wrote: »

Pay your taxes like every one else and you won't have any problems. It's the rest of us that have to foot the bill for people like you. Typical looking for a technicality, hope he throws the book at you!

Wow you've literally made a massively incorrecr assumption.

I'm a frequent user of the legal discussion board and was asking fellow boards to point me to the legislation I was looking for. If you read my op you can see what I was looking for and how I prescribed the matter but couldn't confirm.

How about providing positive input and helping the thread instead of throwing accusations around

source

lifeandtimes wrote: »

source wrote: »

Section 41 Road Traffic Act 1994



Still not seeing it here other than not paying tax for over 3 months.

Sorry If I'm being difficult but the whole section appears to be difficult to read.

Can you reply with the section that says they can detain the vehicle or persons property without a warrent and why this allowed?

Also side question is there any credence to the saying that a guard can't seize a vehicle that is of greater value than an amount owed in Tax?

My apologies if I'm being blunt here, but we've spoon fed you the information you were looking for. If it doesn't match your expectations that's not our problem.

The SI signed by a minister authorises a member of AGS to act under S41 RTA 94.

There is no magic loophole here, the legislation has been used and has stood up to scrutiny in court for years, your misreading of it is not going to change that fact.

lifeandtimes

28064212 wrote: »

Insurance:



Tax:


I'm not aware of any regulation that allows seizure for no NCT (although that doesn't mean there isn't one). There is no requirement for a warrant, and there is nothing about the value of the car

Thanks you've pointed it out clearly for me, much appreciated

lifeandtimes

source wrote: »

My apologies if I'm being blunt here, but we've spoon fed you the information you were looking for. If it doesn't match your expectations that's not our problem.

The SI signed by a minister authorises a member of AGS to act under S41 RTA 94.

There is no magic loophole here, the legislation has been used and has stood up to scrutiny in court for years, your misreading of it is not going to change that fact.

No I understand it's been pointed out for me. I read the legislation but im exhausted and my mind was looking for specific words that clearly warrent there which is why I was confused

Orangeglacier

lifeandtimes wrote: »

No I understand it's been pointed out for me. I read the legislation but im exhausted and my mind was looking for specific words that clearly warrent there which is why I was confused

So you have section 41 of the road traffic act which deals with the detention seizure of vehicles etc and as you Said it doesn't mention nct but an si changed that by inserting this


(c) by inserting after paragraph (c) the following:

“(d) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of section 18(1) of the Principal Act,

(e) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of Regulation 19(1) of the European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004 ( S.I. No. 771 of 2004 ), or

(f) in the case of a vehicle registered in another Member State, the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that it is, being so used without a proof of passing a roadworthiness test in accordance with Council Directive 96/96/EC of 20 December 1996 1 which is for the time being in force in respect of the vehicle.”

Captain Obvious

You weren't by any chance reading the FM104 comment thread on that video of the idiot with no licence or NCT who took off when told his car was being seized? Massive amount of incorrect information in that comment section.

pudzey101

just tax, nct and insure your vehicle and you wont have to worry

lifeandtimes

lifeandtimes wrote: »

No I understand it's been pointed out for me. I read the legislation but im exhausted and my mind was looking for specific words that clearly warrent there which is why I was confused

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hey,

I've tried but can't find it.

Can anyone link me to the road traffic act or any act actually that says a guard can seize a car for not having having tax and/or insurance and/or nct without a warrent.

I was always of the belief legally a judge needs to sign off on it but I believe I am wrong but cant prove myself wrong

Thanks

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Still not seeing it here other than not paying tax for over 3 months.

Sorry If I'm being difficult but the whole section appears to be difficult to read.

Can you reply with the section that says they can detain the vehicle or persons property without a warrent and why this allowed?

Also side question is there any credence to the saying that a guard can't seize a vehicle that is of greater value than an amount owed in Tax?

You'll have a hard time finding it given this persistent error.