General Rugby Discussion II

sydthebeat

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Start of the cutbacks?
IRFU would do well to offer him a job.Standard of reffing in this country not as good as it once was.
Use the players salary cut and all:pac:

RFU have to make horrific cuts really.

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/29417037/rfu-cut-139-jobs-deal-107m-loss

as JP is based in england i dont think it makes any sense for IRFU to take him on board in anything other than a consultancy or management basis.

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

RFU have to make horrific cuts really.

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/29417037/rfu-cut-139-jobs-deal-107m-loss

as JP is based in england i dont think it makes any sense for IRFU to take him on board in anything other than a consultancy or management basis.

Also currently, severe travel restrictions. Pro14 might be able to utilise him for games in Wales possibly ?

ionadnapokot

sydthebeat wrote: »

RFU have to make horrific cuts really.

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/29417037/rfu-cut-139-jobs-deal-107m-loss

as JP is based in england i dont think it makes any sense for IRFU to take him on board in anything other than a consultancy or management basis.

Yikes! Poor, poor Rfu

Would €50K salary secure him?
Would be a great addition to the team.
https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/04/24/meet-the-refs-the-irfus-high-performance-referee-panel/

errlloyd

That would make him unavailable for England and Ireland tests right? I think the same happened to Steve Walsh?

ionadnapokot

errlloyd wrote: »

That would make him unavailable for England and Ireland tests right? I think the same happened to Steve Walsh?

He's Irish born and bred. So just Ireland i think.
Walsh is NZ born ans Aus took him on. God bless that man.

I'd be amazed if the IRFU passed up this opportunity.

antietam1

errlloyd wrote: »

That would make him unavailable for England and Ireland tests right? I think the same happened to Steve Walsh?

Stevie was a bit unbalanced, he hated Shaggie well the rugby one anyway.

Cookiemunster

ionadnapokot wrote: »

He's Irish born and bred. So just Ireland i think.
Walsh is NZ born ans Aus took him on. God bless that man.

I'd be amazed if the IRFU passed up this opportunity.

Doyle refereed has Ireland (and Irish teams in Europe) quite a few times. He couldn't referee England or English teams in Europe as he was and RFU referee. If he became and IRFU ref then he would be barred from referring Ireland or Irish teams in Europe, but could then ref Engllish teams.

Walsh was a NZRU ref and refereed Aus games before being sacked by the NZRU. He then took up employment with the ARU and subsequently refereed NZ teams.

awec

I doubt the IRFU are in position to start hiring more senior referees. Certainly wouldn't go over well given the poverty that's been pleaded recently.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I doubt the IRFU are in position to start hiring more senior referees. Certainly wouldn't go over well given the poverty that's been pleaded recently.

Go over well with who?

I reckon you're right though. The money isn't there to take the guy on. I'd be surprised if they did.

aloooof

molloyjh wrote: »

Go over well with who?

I reckon you're right though. The money isn't there to take the guy on. I'd be surprised if they did.

With the players, presumably.

Squidgy Black

aloooof wrote: »

With the players, presumably.

And the administrative staff who've been placed on shortened work weeks with a 20% pay cut.

Clegg

Yes please.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1296545605343477760?s=19

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

Yes please.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1296545605343477760?s=19

Maybe he could just replace Gatland...

Buer

Only saw that Jack Clifford had to retire yesterday. Real shame. He was a hugely talented player. Easy to forget he was in the English 23 for every match of their 2016 Grand Slam and only turned 23 during the tournament.

He was widely tipped to be an English captain at the time but injury absolutely ruined his career.

Retiro

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/pro14/why-munsters-springbok-signings-could-do-more-harm-to-irish-rugby-than-good-39466855.html


i see Neil Francis has issues over Munsters 2 big signings and the long term harm it could do...something i agree with.


How come an NFL styled draft system has never been suggested for rugby...using the schools system.
We're definitely not maximising the talent pool.

salmocab

Retiro wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/pro14/why-munsters-springbok-signings-could-do-more-harm-to-irish-rugby-than-good-39466855.html


i see Neil Francis has issues over Munsters 2 big signings and the long term harm it could do...something i agree with.


How come an NFL styled draft system has never been suggested for rugby...using the schools system.
We're definitely not maximising the talent pool.

Neil Francis has issue with most things

Draft is unworkable telling kids were they have to go live for a pittance of money isn’t going to work, it’s not comparable to the American model.

rayd3

Not often you see someone freely admit they agree with Franno and that they pay for the Bindo.

Heimdallr

Clegg wrote: »

Yes please.

This would be brilliant

Podge_irl

Retiro wrote: »

How come an NFL styled draft system has never been suggested for rugby...using the schools system.
We're definitely not maximising the talent pool.

Restraint of trade/free movement issues. University/education issues. Financial issues for the players involved.

Its just an all round bad idea. If you are going to be shifted around the country essentially against your will for very little money why not just head off to France? As much as I love US sports, the teams have absolutely no local identity whatsoever and I don't know why you would want to recreate that.

Yeah_Right

Clegg wrote: »

Yes please.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1296545605343477760?s=19

The Crusaders seem to be big believers in getting rugby knowledge from all over the world. Obviously having ROG there for a couple of years was the most high profile but they now have former Welsh international Mark Jones on their. Then there was the Zoom calls with the Leinster coaches and now this. I think it shows why they are at the top of the game. Constantly searching for new ideas and improvements.

I see also that former Leinster superstar, Andrew Goodman is on their coaching ticket.

awec

In NZ isn't young talent moved around their franchises a lot?

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

In NZ isn't young talent moved around their franchises a lot?

i wouldnt have said particularly a lot....

each super rugby franchise is affiliated with regional ITM clubs (and heartland club, being a level below ITM)

for example take the chiefs squad this year... only 14 of their 41 man squad is from outside their regional catchment area.
with the crusaders its only 8 from a 38 man squad.

so while there is inter franchise movement, and there is inter ITM movement, its not particularly much when considered against homegrown players coming through academies

you do sometimes get some guys like finlay christie who do quite bit of franchise hopping in order to eek out game time, but they are the exception rather than the rule

Yeah_Right

Come on Syd, it happens a lot in NZ. The Blues region loses a tonne of young talent every year to other franchises. But thats probably down to the players wanting out because the Blues have been a basket case for years :mad:

I look at the Crusaders and a lot of their big players haven't been homegrown over the years. They get recruited young and developed. Even McCaw and Read are from outside the Crusaders region.

Highlanders are full of imports. But that region always has been due to Otago University.

What is interesting is guys will play for a Super Rugby region but go back to their original province for NPC.

sydthebeat

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Come on Syd, it happens a lot in NZ. The Blues region loses a tonne of young talent every year to other franchises. But thats probably down to the players wanting out because the Blues have been a basket case for years :mad:

I look at the Crusaders and a lot of their big players haven't been homegrown over the years. They get recruited young and developed. Even McCaw and Read are from outside the Crusaders region.

Highlanders are full of imports. But that region always has been due to Otago University.

What is interesting is guys will play for a Super Rugby region but go back to their original province for NPC.

i deliberately didnt mention the highlanders sure who wants to live in dunedin

but imported "young and developed" to me is not the same as the franchises transferring players between clubs... but on second reading of the last few posts, maybe thats not what awec meant.

for example guys like braydon ennor could be a blues player today only he was "recruited" into the saders academy at 17.
to me hes crusaders developed though, and not an import.

Yeah_Right

Thats true Syd. The Crusaders have brilliant scouts that get the talent young. The Whitelocks and the 2 younger Barretts being a couple of examples, Goodhue being another. They also seem to be able to turn inconsistent NPC players into good solid SR players. I look at Bryn Hall; up and down for North Harbour, couldn't nail down a spot in the Blues yet he is regular first choice for the Crusaders. Did you know that Aaron Smith was at the Blues before they cut him and he signed for the Highlanders? FFS!!

I agree that a player getting recruited out of school and developed is different to a pro moving part way through their career. That doesn't happen as much. You do get a few journeymen who bounce around a few sides before they head off to Europe.

I think its something that will happen more and more in Ireland. There is too much talent coming through the Leinster schools system for players not to move if they want a career as a pro rugby player.

sydthebeat

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Thats true Syd. The Crusaders have brilliant scouts that get the talent young. The Whitelocks and the 2 younger Barretts being a couple of examples, Goodhue being another. They also seem to be able to turn inconsistent NPC players into good solid SR players. I look at Bryn Hall; up and down for North Harbour, couldn't nail down a spot in the Blues yet he is regular first choice for the Crusaders. Did you know that Aaron Smith was at the Blues before they cut him and he signed for the Highlanders? FFS!!

I agree that a player getting recruited out of school and developed is different to a pro moving part way through their career. That doesn't happen as much. You do get a few journeymen who bounce around a few sides before they head off to Europe.

I think its something that will happen more and more in Ireland. There is too much talent coming through the Leinster schools system for players not to move if they want a career as a pro rugby player.

i actually think ireland is nearly at breaking point for leinster exports to other provinces.... and we'll see greater numbers transferring over to england at younger ages... a la JJ hanrahan and bryan byrne.

you have a situation now in munster that, had ian madigan still been a fringe bristol player, he would have been a very attractive target for munster.

The leinster team should be the Ireland first team. If you are in the leinster squad, you play for ireland. The rest of the teams can feed in. Munster can be the second team, Ulster the third and connacht the fourth. That way Ireland would be training together all year round. I can see everyone buying into this without any hassle.

nerd69

sydthebeat wrote: »

i actually think ireland is nearly at breaking point for leinster exports to other provinces.... and we'll see greater numbers transferring over to england at younger ages... a la JJ hanrahan and bryan byrne.

you have a situation now in munster that, had ian madigan still been a fringe bristol player, he would have been a very attractive target for munster.

Na Munster have been in a bad situation academy wise for a while. They are improving a lot now time is needed for young out halves. Jj,the hope of Joey and scannell are absoloutly fine as senior guys

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

i deliberately didnt mention the highlanders sure who wants to live in dunedin

but imported "young and developed" to me is not the same as the franchises transferring players between clubs... but on second reading of the last few posts, maybe thats not what awec meant.

for example guys like braydon ennor could be a blues player today only he was "recruited" into the saders academy at 17.
to me hes crusaders developed though, and not an import.

What I meant was players do not necessarily end up going through the franchise of their own region, talent is more spread out to where it's needed.

Right?

The Irish system is remarkably imbalanced, but it would take a big leap for both the clubs and the supporters to get their head around the idea that just because a player is from there that they would not necessarily be playing there.

sydthebeat

nerd69 wrote: »

Na Munster have been in a bad situation academy wise for a while. They are improving a lot now time is needed for young out halves. Jj,the hope of Joey and scannell are absoloutly fine as senior guys

one recognised out half and a make shift outhalf / centre is certainly not "fine"

they have lost 2 outhalfs in 2 seasons, without replacement (even from the academy) ... one permanently and one indefinitely

other than the covid situation we are in, munster would be in crisis