General Rugby Discussion II

sydthebeat

aloooof wrote: »

Pretty insignificant at the moment, but there's implications for the Rugby World Cup draw as well. Would seem almost impossible to fit in all the scheduled Internationals between now and end of November, so likely to be less movement between the bands?

Three years before the actual event at least allows for some practical postponement....

salmocab

KevinK wrote: »

I was thinking about this earlier, the general consensus seems to be if we are lucky enough to be able to have rugby of some sort by May/June that the Pro 14 & Chamoions cup would be concluded in some fashion and that the 6 nations will be completed in October. However in all this the June/July internationals seem to be forgotten as they have no promotion/relegation/title/qualification ramifications and as such they seem an easy thing not to run. However the Southern Hemisphere unions are probably highly dependent on these annual fixtures. Who are we to insist the 6 nations must be finished at all costs due to the finances involved yet these fixtures can be forgotten about!

It’s not just money though, it’s travel and heading to a Southern Hemisphere winter especially in Australia who did a bad job initially getting out ahead of this might not be the smartest thing.

Quin_Dub

sydthebeat wrote: »

Three years before the actual event at least allows for some practical postponement....

And to be fair , setting the seeding 3 years out from the event has always been bloody stupid.

Not a single thing would be impacted negatively if they delayed that by 18 months at least.

KevinK

salmocab wrote: »

It’s not just money though, it’s travel and heading to a Southern Hemisphere winter especially in Australia who did a bad job initially getting out ahead of this might not be the smartest thing.

True, in fact there must be a possibility that sport is allowed return at some point (maybe behind closed doors) but international travel is still a problem...

In this scenario it’s hard to see the pro14 (especially with Italy and s.frica) or the champions cup being playable. Is there a possibility we could see a domestic interprovincial competition in the summer?

Would actually be quite enjoyable and unique.

aloooof

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And to be fair , setting the seeding 3 years out from the event has always been bloody stupid.

Not a single thing would be impacted negatively if they delayed that by 18 months at least.

I guess World Rugby's argument is with logistics, but it does seem bizarre since the rankings and groups will more reflect form closer to the previous RWC than the one they're being drawn for.

sydthebeat

aloooof wrote: »

I guess World Rugby's argument is with logistics, but it does seem bizarre since the rankings and groups will more reflect form closer to the previous RWC than the one they're being drawn for.

If they can rearrange the Olympics for a year later, they can certainly rearrange any rugby RWC logistics when they are three years out.

If they cannot then then they are running it wrong.

salmocab

KevinK wrote: »

True, in fact there must be a possibility that sport is allowed return at some point (maybe behind closed doors) but international travel is still a problem...

In this scenario it’s hard to see the pro14 (especially with Italy and s.frica) or the champions cup being playable. Is there a possibility we could see a domestic interprovincial competition in the summer?

Would actually be quite enjoyable and unique.

I’d say it’s more likely that next season will start early with weekends built in to finish anything that needs finishing. Mainly the 6N but they might want to finish up Europe too. Players won’t be in shape to play in May or June at this stage.

jacothelad

KevinK wrote: »

I was thinking about this earlier, the general consensus seems to be if we are lucky enough to be able to have rugby of some sort by May/June that the Pro 14 & Chamoions cup would be concluded in some fashion and that the 6 nations will be completed in October. However in all this the June/July internationals seem to be forgotten as they have no promotion/relegation/title/qualification ramifications and as such they seem an easy thing not to run. However the Southern Hemisphere unions are probably highly dependent on these annual fixtures. Who are we to insist the 6 nations must be finished at all costs due to the finances involved yet these fixtures can be forgotten about!

I don't think there is a hope in hell of rugby in May or June.

KevinK

jacothelad wrote: »

I don't think there is a hope in hell of rugby in May or June.

Ya You’re probably right, May or June don’t make much sense, July or August maybe. But obviously who knows...

Squidgy Black

Freddie Burns seems pretty unhappy at how his time went at Bath and doesn't look like he'll be signing a new contract with them https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/frustrated-forgotten-freddie-burns-says-4003743

I'd imagine he'll end up in France but wonder would any of the provinces take a punt, he's Irish qualified......

molloyjh

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Freddie Burns seems pretty unhappy at how his time went at Bath and doesn't look like he'll be signing a new contract with them https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/frustrated-forgotten-freddie-burns-says-4003743

I'd imagine he'll end up in France but wonder would any of the provinces take a punt, he's Irish qualified......

Having played for England a few times he isnt so I doubt any of the provinces have shown any interest. France looks the likely destination.

Squidgy Black

molloyjh wrote: »

Having played for England a few times he isnt so I doubt any of the provinces have shown any interest. France looks the likely destination.

Completely forgot he was capped so that ruled that out.

There's mentions of super rugby in that article but I can't imagine any team being that interested

Buer

He actually went really well for England once or twice. They nearly won down in NZ with him starting and having a pretty good game. Probably unlucky never to be capped again after that tour. Farrell and Ford pretty much sharing the jersey exclusively since then aside from a brief involvement from Cipriani.

Bazzo

Pro 14 is putting up 40+ games to stream for free on their website.

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/instant-classics-available-on-demand-for-free-on-pro14-rugby

Bazzo

https://www.the42.ie/world-rugby-breakdown-laws-5064084-Apr2020/?utm_source=shortlink

Hopefully they take the enforcement seriously. Diving in to a ruck off feet and side entry have become ridiculously prolific.

clsmooth

Bazzo wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/world-rugby-breakdown-laws-5064084-Apr2020/?utm_source=shortlink

Hopefully they take the enforcement seriously. Diving in to a ruck off feet and side entry have become ridiculously prolific.

Good news. Now they just need to enforce the offside line.

Buer

If they do implement those stricter interpretations, there will be a period of time where matches should all have 30 penalties.

I would imagine over half of rucks have at least one of those infringements.

sydthebeat

Well if it at least stops the rucking of prone players I'll be happy.

Its a basic tenant of the game that's its played by people on their feet. This "rucking the tackler" crap has seriously messed up the ethos of the game around the breakdown

b.gud

So in a scenario where the rugby season ends up returning in some form over the next couple of months will we see this stricter reffing apply or will it wait begin at the start of the next season?

Christy42

Buer wrote: »

If they do implement those stricter interpretations, there will be a period of time where matches should all have 30 penalties.

I would imagine over half of rucks have at least one of those infringements.

Worth it.

Absolutely it will take some times for habits to adjust but it will be worth it. Even in pointless rucks you see players flopping on top at international level. Players will get used to it and adapt accordingly.

In a world of social distancing for the foreseeable future, how will Rugby return? I guess we'll have to reach heard immunity or get a vaccine. We might miss the next six nations at this rate.

ionadnapokot

Same laws....

Would like if they try and reduce the scope for the clear outs at rucks
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1008318590695628800?s=20
(see Furlong v's Aus! Perfectly legal. But dangerous)
15.7
A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body.
https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=15

sydthebeat

^
i dont really have an issue with that clean out.. Furlong comes in low, clearly binds and then lifts Pocock off the ball. so he cleans out in the manner we coach... like a plane taking off...... in low, bind and lift.

My personal big issue is with the cleanouts that are clearly downward at all times.

https://youtu.be/cFOvl98oq2I?t=2904

This clean out is clearly dangerous.
Player, while not prone, is on their knees, and not in control of their balance. The clearout by Ryan is always downward and there is no bind

https://youtu.be/cFOvl98oq2I?t=3166
from the same game, this is something else that i hate. tacklers holding onto the tackled players while they are being cleared out... leading to unnatural positions with the risk of some very serious injury.

Im glad that both of these seem to be on the list of what world rugby want to concentrate on.

Podge_irl

Ryan had a number of what you could charitably call borderline clearouts in that game.

In that second one does he hold onto Larmour's leg as he gets cleared out? That seems both dangerous and ultimately pointless.

Eod100

Deleted User wrote: »

In a world of social distancing for the foreseeable future, how will Rugby return? I guess we'll have to reach heard immunity or get a vaccine. We might miss the next six nations at this rate.

Starting to think this season will be a write off for 6N, Champions Cup and Pro 14. Summer tours likely gone and maybe even November. Not sure will season start in September. Not sure how it can be resolved easily

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

That seems both dangerous and ultimately pointless.

i could say something about the player who does it... and how maybe both those points above are applicable to him... but i wont

ionadnapokot

sydthebeat wrote: »

^
i dont really have an issue with that clean out.. Furlong comes in low, clearly binds and then lifts Pocock off the ball. so he cleans out in the manner we coach... like a plane taking off...... in low, bind and lift.

Its Technically brilliant -Shoulders are not below hip height.
But its the "Blunt-force trauma" he still generates that is dangerous.

Enforcing the Laws will only penailse the technically poor clear outs - "coming off their feet"
Defenders will still Jackal over the ball and Attackers will still try to smash them off it.

Stop the Jackal as it is and outlaw the run and smash
Bring back the bind and look to step over the ball in order to try turn it over.

sydthebeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gywo08X2yNs

I'm sitting down with a cuppa to watch this again... Classic!!

troyzer

I don't suppose anybody has seen this yet.

Christy42

troyzer wrote: »

I don't suppose anybody has seen this yet.

At least the French and English will feel better about not winning it when the comp involves SA and NZ?