General Rugby Discussion II

Utah_Saint

The statement from Aus Rugby said they intend to sack on the basis of his comments "...disrespectful to people because of their sexuality ..."

Why single that out...what about the 7 other types of people he targeted?

thomond2006

stephen_n wrote: »

He’s condemning people for being who they are. He’s not being condemned for his religious beliefs, he’s being condemned for his actions.

Exactly my point. He's entitled to his views but his employer is equally entitled to have a view.

pickarooney

Utah_Saint wrote: »

The statement from Aus Rugby said they intend to sack on the basis of his comments "...disrespectful to people because of their sexuality ..."

Why single that out...what about the 7 other types of people he targeted?

Nobody is born a thief or a drunk or an adulterer. One of those is also a crime.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/JapanRugbyClub/status/1116221281878335488?s=19

Guy:Incognito

Severe underuse of the word cvnt in that video .he should try again imo.

Meh. Folau can hate who he wants, he can hide behind "but it's my gods opinion, not mine" but if you worship a hateful god then you are just as hateful a person - the only difference is you are cowardly about taking ownership of your opinions when you blame them on someone or something else.

His comments are damaging to a section of society that until very recently was heavily persecuted and in parts of the world are still subject to stoning. His comments are also damaging in a self-defeating kind of way, many of us these days consider Religion nothing but complete make believe and this kind of rhetoric moves a lot of folks further away from organised religion.

Either way, he has voluntarily made public what might have been best to keep private. Whether intentionally or out of sheer ignorance is anyone's guess. I'd say he will end up somewhere in France.

AbusesToilets

How long til he's on a plane to France?

Sangre

Folau can say what he wants. Doesn't mean his employers have to put up with it. His position was completely untenable for the ARU who can't be seen to be supporting this behaviour.

I'm not as convinced by other posters that clubs will be climbing over themselves to hire Folau. A lot of big companies would be very unhappy if he was on the team they were sponsoring.

Utah_Saint

Utah_Saint wrote: »

The statement from Aus Rugby said they intend to sack on the basis of his comments "...disrespectful to people because of their sexuality ..."

Why single that out...what about the 7 other types of people he targeted?

As an atheist, I am offended by their ignoring of my sensibilities

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Nobody is born a thief or a drunk or an adulterer. One of those is also a crime.

Everyone is born atheist. Religion is a lifestyle choice

Buer

His comments will have massively impacted on how much he will be able to command in Europe so I don't think he's doing it to deliberately angle for a move.

Can you imagine the uproar from some groups of supporters if they approached him? France is the only possible destination and, even at that, he won't be reaching his full market value now.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone is born atheist. Religion is a lifestyle choice

I was born a snake handler and I'll die a snake handler.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

I was born a snake handler and I'll die a snake handler.

Sir, that's the umbilical cord

Former Former

I dunno about the 'getting out of his contract' angle. He only re-signed with ARU less than a year ago, why wouldn't he just have moved then?

pickarooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone is born atheist. Religion is a lifestyle choice

Does atheism involve a conscious rejection of the idea of God or is it the default state of consciousness?

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Does atheism involve a conscious rejection of the idea of God or is it the default state of consciousness?

I accept that I have no idea as to the fundamentals of the universe nor whether it was created intentionally or accidentally.

What I am absolutely 100% certain of is that neither does anyone else.

I often drift back to the commandment "do not take the lords name in vein". I was told in school that this means don't use the name of God as a curse. What it actually means is to not use gods name for your own benefit.

To me, all religions break this fundamental commandment by their very existence.

It's all make believe given legitimacy by tenure. If the bible was written last month it would be dismissed as fringe lunacy and any religion based upon it rightly labelled a cult.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Does atheism involve a conscious rejection of the idea of God or is it the default state of consciousness?

Which god? Apparently it's ok to default to Thor not existing (outside Marvel)
Kids need to be taught religion, my kids don't have a notion of gods and angels

Unexpected philosophical debates

Bridge93

the amount of neanderthals on social media crying that its his beliefs and his opinion and that its a disgrace hes punished for them is astonishing. So much stupidity in the world

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

the amount of neanderthals on social media crying that its his beliefs and his opinion and that its a disgrace hes punished for them is astonishing. So much stupidity in the world

I can understand some of the worry about this, when employers can fire you for non-criminal public comments, which do not target the employer (or are spoken as a representative of the employer)

Some companies would only love ability to fire people through this pathway.
It's a "where is the line?" comment.

Would he have been in trouble for saying these just about atheists and not the homophobic remarks?
Atheists are only relatively recently not persecuted, in the west, and still face severe consequences in large parts of the world.
I've faced anti atheist sentiment in Ireland only a few years back, personally, nevermind the schools issues etc.

So...
Emotionally: He should have been sacked years ago, for his sustained homophobic comments and attacks on the gay community.
Logically: They need to be careful how they handle this.

Guy:Incognito

Bravo James Haskell. Much more like it.

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can understand some of the worry about this, when employers can fire you for non-criminal public comments, which do not target the employer (or are spoken as a representative of the employer)

Some companies would only love ability to fire people through this pathway.
It's a "where is the line?" comment.

Would he have been in trouble for saying these just about atheists and not the homophobic remarks?
Atheists are only relatively recently not persecuted, in the west, and still face severe consequences in large parts of the world.
I've faced anti atheist sentiment in Ireland only a few years back, personally, nevermind the schools issues etc.

So...
Emotionally: He should have been sacked years ago, for his sustained homophobic comments and attacks on the gay community.
Logically: They need to be careful how they handle this.

Rugby Australia haven't sacked Folau yet, they have said they intend to terminate his contract as they are unable to contact him to ascertain mitigating circumstances.

They are handling this just fine.

pickarooney

Deleted User wrote: »

Which god? Apparently it's ok to default to Thor not existing (outside Marvel)
Kids need to be taught religion, my kids don't have a notion of gods and angels

Are they atheists or just not theists if they haven't considered the question?

Guy:Incognito

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rugby Australia haven't sacked Folau yet, they have said they intend to terminate his contract as they are unable to contact him to ascertain mitigating circumstances.

They are handling this just fine.

Did they try tweeting him

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Are they atheists or just not theists if they haven't considered the question?

Atheist is a disbeliever (asked and rejects) and/or someone with no belief (no question).

Not to be confused with Anti-theists (which a lot of atheists would also be)

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

I can understand some of the worry about this, when employers can fire you for non-criminal public comments, which do not target the employer (or are spoken as a representative of the employer)

Some companies would only love ability to fire people through this pathway.
It's a "where is the line?" comment.

Would he have been in trouble for saying these just about atheists and not the homophobic remarks?
Atheists are only relatively recently not persecuted, in the west, and still face severe consequences in large parts of the world.
I've faced anti atheist sentiment in Ireland only a few years back, personally, nevermind the schools issues etc.

So...
Emotionally: He should have been sacked years ago, for his sustained homophobic comments and attacks on the gay community.
Logically: They need to be careful how they handle this.

Companies already dismiss people for social media posts, that are not criminal. I know someone who was marched out their new job bu security guards. After their new company did some sort of deep search on Facebook. Came up with a post they had liked on someone else’s Facebook petitioning against a sister company of the one they joined. It isn’t just sports stars social media that’s under scrutiny.

Australian Rugby have been previously warned by their sponsors that they've considered pulling their deals.

That's their primary motivation really.

Squidgy Black

glasso wrote: »

Australian Rugby have been previously warned by their sponsors that they've considered pulling their deals.

That's the primary motivation really.

Doesn't help Folau that the CEO of Qantas is openly gay, and a massive advocate of gay marriage in Australia. Considering Qantas are the main sponsor of the ARU, I'd say they're sweating bullets.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Doesn't help Folau that the CEO of Qantas is openly gay, and a massive advocate of gay marriage in Australia. Considering Qantas are the main sponsor of the ARU, I'd say they're sweating bullets.

and he's Irish also so the drunks bit probably pissed him off as well.

Squidgy Black

glasso wrote: »

and he's Irish also so the drunks bit probably pissed him off as well.

Fornicating too, drinking and riding are his national past times really.