Pedestrians on regional roads.

Lord Nikon

Since the introduction of better roads around Ireland, and the health buzz obsession of power walking/running too, I’ve noticed a trend of people out walking on regional roads in heavy traffic areas, most notably on regional roads close to motorway junctions. These pedestrians are on Hard Shoulders with Hi-Viz or without, walking their dogs, not in single file, etc.

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

magicbastarder

so given that someone may be living in an area without footpaths, what is your solution? you seem to suggest they should not be walking there.

weadick

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Since the introduction of better roads around Ireland, and the health buzz obsession of power walking/running too, I’ve noticed a trend of people out walking on regional roads in heavy traffic areas, most notably on regional roads close to motorway junctions. These pedestrians are on Hard Shoulders with Hi-Viz or without, walking their dogs, not in single file, etc.

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

I think there have already been fatalities because of this. It is particularly dangerous in Ireland where the hard shoulder often doubles as an overtaking lane of sorts, with slow drivers obliged to pull in to allow others to overtake. It is extremely dangerous but it is hard to see what can be done about it.

Zebra3

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Since the introduction of better roads around Ireland, and the health buzz obsession of power walking/running too, I’ve noticed a trend of people out walking on regional roads in heavy traffic areas, most notably on regional roads close to motorway junctions. These pedestrians are on Hard Shoulders with Hi-Viz or without, walking their dogs, not in single file, etc.

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

So long as a driver is paying attention to the road, what's the problem?

harr

Zebra3 wrote: »

So long as a driver is paying attention to the road, what's the problem?

Exactly, the amount of drivers who feel people shouldn’t be walking on roads at all. I walk my dog on county roads I need to as not to many paths where I am and the amount of drivers who barrel around corners as close to the ditch as possible without even considering that a runner, walker or cyclist might be the far side..I have had abuse from drivers before because I was walking on a particular narrow bendy road..
Anyone using a hard shoulder as an overtaking lane should have the book thrown at them...imo

07Lapierre

The only roads you can’t walk on are motorways. It’s the fast moving traffic that’s the problem. Surely it makes sense (if driving) to slow down when passing pedestrians?

lucernarian

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Since the introduction of better roads around Ireland, and the health buzz obsession of power walking/running too, I’ve noticed a trend of people out walking on regional roads in heavy traffic areas, most notably on regional roads close to motorway junctions. These pedestrians are on Hard Shoulders with Hi-Viz or without, walking their dogs, not in single file, etc.

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

I don't get this silliness, there's plenty of people who should be on the road walking from a to b, lit up or with high vis. We may as well shut down any rural bus stops unless someone miraculously has their house right outside...

Mrs OBumble

Lord Nikon wrote: »

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

So you are saying we need to slow the traffic down, and build footpaths? I'd agree with that.

jimmycrackcorm

Lord Nikon wrote:

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

So basically people are somewhat safer on a footpath right beside fat moving traffic than further back on a wider hard shoulder. Because cars can't mount paths?

weadick wrote:

I think there have already been fatalities because of this.

Anything concrete to back that up?

bk

This also shows why we desperately need lots more Greenways, they aren't just for tourists.

We have destroyed our countryside with roads, one off houses and lack of access due to lack of rambling laws, forcing people to walk on roads, where trust me they would much rather not be, but have no other choice.

elperello

harr wrote: »

Exactly, the amount of drivers who feel people shouldn’t be walking on roads at all. I walk my dog on county roads I need to as not to many paths where I am and the amount of drivers who barrel around corners as close to the ditch as possible without even considering that a runner, walker or cyclist might be the far side..I have had abuse from drivers before because I was walking on a particular narrow bendy road..
Anyone using a hard shoulder as an overtaking lane should have the book thrown at them...imo

I have found that on narrow roads it's best not to stick rigidly to the "walk on the right" rule.
Coming up to a blind bend I often cross the road keeping a watch for traffic coming up behind me. When I clear the bend I go back to the correct side.
Also as well as keeping your eyes open listening for traffic can help. Headphones are out of the question in these situations.

harr

elperello wrote: »

I have found that on narrow roads it's best not to stick rigidly to the "walk on the right" rule.
Coming up to a blind bend I often cross the road keeping a watch for traffic coming up behind me. When I clear the bend I go back to the correct side.
Also as well as keeping your eyes open listening for traffic can help. Headphones are out of the question in these situations.

Definitely on the bad bends I would normally cross the road and I agree on the headphones as well...but some drivers seem so surprised to meet people walking on the roads..I only live about a 10 minute walk outside a village so I don’t always like jumping in the car just to pop up for a litre of milk or to collect kids from school.

Carawaystick

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Since the introduction of better roads around Ireland, and the health buzz obsession of power walking/running too, I’ve noticed a trend of people out walking on regional roads in heavy traffic areas, most notably on regional roads close to motorway junctions. These pedestrians are on Hard Shoulders with Hi-Viz or without, walking their dogs, not in single file, etc.

There are no paths along most of these roads, and close to roundabouts where the hard shoulder ends, pedestrians are on the driving section of the road. Surely, people should be walking in areas that have paths, and are not close to fast moving traffic, where the danger of being knocked down is greater.

Sher nobody ever walked on the roads here until the first blue motorway signs went up....

People driving should drive slowly and safely, because they can kill people. People walking rarely kill people.

L1011

The road outside my house (OK, the road parallel to the road outside my house...) is a Regional road and its relatively near a motorway junction. Kids walk down it to school in huge volumes ever day


Did you mean rural rather than regional?

People are allowed walk on those too, though.

magicbastarder

was this a driveby by the OP?

Dravokivich

weadick wrote: »

I think there have already been fatalities because of this. It is particularly dangerous in Ireland where the hard shoulder often doubles as an overtaking lane of sorts, with slow drivers obliged to pull in to allow others to overtake. It is extremely dangerous but it is hard to see what can be done about it.

Where did you get that from?

It's only something to be considered if/when safe to do so.

07Lapierre

elperello wrote: »

I have found that on narrow roads it's best not to stick rigidly to the "walk on the right" rule.
Coming up to a blind bend I often cross the road keeping a watch for traffic coming up behind me. When I clear the bend I go back to the correct side.
Also as well as keeping your eyes open listening for traffic can help. Headphones are out of the question in these situations.

As far as motorists are concerned, you shouldn't be on the road. After all, you haven't passed a "Walking on the road" test, you don't even pay "Road Tax" and your not wearing a helmet! (sound familiar?)

ThisRegard

07Lapierre wrote: »

As far as motorists are concerned, you shouldn't be on the road. After all, you haven't passed a "Walking on the road" test, you don't even pay "Road Tax" and your not wearing a helmet! (sound familiar?)

You forgot to add that they don't hang their PPS number from their neck.

07Lapierre

ThisRegard wrote: »

You forgot to add that they don't hang their PPS number from their neck.

Well its only fair...after all its Road tax that pays for the roads. :P

magicbastarder

ThisRegard wrote: »

You forgot to add that they don't hang their PPS number from their neck.

all they need to do is get people to wear their PPS card from their neck and put some hi-vis strips on it; it's bleedin' HUGE:

Lord Nikon

magicbastarder wrote: »

so given that someone may be living in an area without footpaths, what is your solution? you seem to suggest they should not be walking there.

I never suggested they shouldn't be walking there, I'm merely highlighting the fact that walking/running in these areas is quite dangerous. Is it necessary to walk in dangerous areas, because someone is entitled to?

lucernarian

Lord Nikon wrote: »

I never suggested they shouldn't be walking there, I'm merely highlighting the fact that walking/running in these areas is quite dangerous. Is it necessary to walk in dangerous areas, because someone is entitled to?

Saying it's unnecessary sounds pretty similar to "they shouldn't be there" IMO.

Lord Nikon

If anyone that knows the R157 road near the M3 Parkway Train station, close to Dunboyne(Meath), will notice numerous pedestrians out and about. If you frequent this area during evening rush hour, traffic is heavy and speeding, not excessive speeding but obeying the limit of 80km/h.

There are no houses or schools in this area, just main roads and fields. The town of Dunboyne is close by too, with plenty of pathways, and traffic moving at slower speeds.

I'm quite aware that if the driver is careful, then walking on the side of the road is fine, but accidents happen. Does it sound logical to be walking so close to traffic travelling at high speed? What if someone breaks down, and pulls onto the hardshoulder, where does that force the pedestrians, onto the road of oncoming traffic...?

amcalester

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If anyone that knows the R157 road near the M3 Parkway Train station, close to Dunboyne(Meath), will notice numerous pedestrians out and about. If you frequent this area during evening rush hour, traffic is heavy and speeding, not excessive speeding but obeying the limit of 80km/h.

There are no houses or schools in this area, just main roads and fields. The town of Dunboyne is close by too, with plenty of pathways, and traffic moving at slower speeds.

I'm quite aware that if the driver is careful, then walking on the side of the road is fine, but accidents happen. Does it sound logical to be walking so close to traffic travelling at high speed? What if someone breaks down, and pulls onto the hardshoulder, where does that force the pedestrians, onto the road of oncoming traffic...?

Sounds like the speed limit should be lowered to a speed that is safer all these pesky perambulatory pedestrians.

ThisRegard

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If anyone that knows the R157 road near the M3 Parkway Train station, close to Dunboyne(Meath), will notice numerous pedestrians out and about. If you frequent this area during evening rush hour, traffic is heavy and speeding, not excessive speeding but obeying the limit of 80km/h.

There are no houses or schools in this area, just main roads and fields. The town of Dunboyne is close by too, with plenty of pathways, and traffic moving at slower speeds.

I'm quite aware that if the driver is careful, then walking on the side of the road is fine, but accidents happen. Does it sound logical to be walking so close to traffic travelling at high speed? What if someone breaks down, and pulls onto the hardshoulder, where does that force the pedestrians, onto the road of oncoming traffic...?

You mean that big massively wide road, with good hard shoulders each side? I was thinking you were talking about narrow little roads from the outset. The R157 from the station to Dunboyne is not at all a bit dangerous to be walking on considering you have a huge hard shoulder both side.

If someone breaks down and pulls into the hard shoulder, I may be stretching credibility a bit here, but pedestrians might be able to walk around the car, and amazingly still stay in the hard shoulder while doing so.

I love Sean nos

weadick wrote: »

I think there have already been fatalities because of this. It is particularly dangerous in Ireland where the hard shoulder often doubles as an overtaking lane of sorts, with slow drivers obliged to pull in to allow others to overtake. It is extremely dangerous but it is hard to see what can be done about it.

RotR on the hard shoulder (not motorway) is quite clear:

If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby.

No mention of obligation. Seems simple.

07Lapierre

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If anyone that knows the R157 road near the M3 Parkway Train station, close to Dunboyne(Meath), will notice numerous pedestrians out and about. If you frequent this area during evening rush hour, traffic is heavy and speeding, not excessive speeding but obeying the limit of 80km/h.

There are no houses or schools in this area, just main roads and fields. The town of Dunboyne is close by too, with plenty of pathways, and traffic moving at slower speeds.

I'm quite aware that if the driver is careful, then walking on the side of the road is fine, but accidents happen. Does it sound logical to be walking so close to traffic travelling at high speed? What if someone breaks down, and pulls onto the hardshoulder, where does that force the pedestrians, onto the road of oncoming traffic...?

Do so with due care and attention. Besides, those people walking might be able to assist you.

I love Sean nos

weadick wrote: »

I think there have already been fatalities because of this.

In addition, there have been zero fatalities because of people walking in the hard shoulder of a regional or national road.

Zero.

There may however have been fatalities because of clowns driving in the hard shoulder without watching where they were going.

07Lapierre

jelutong wrote: »

Could you explain "with slow drivers obliged to pull in to allow others to overtake".

AFAIK, it is legal to pass on the left (on the hard shoulder if necessary) if the car in front is turning right.

HGV drivers, Van drivers and tractors sometimes move into the hard shoulder to allow cars pass easier. The IFA /RSA advise Farmers to do this.

ThisRegard

Somewhat apt as every time I've been on the road in question, the R157, I've seen either farm machinery or heavy goods vehicles straddle the hard shoulder. They'd be more of a concern to me if I was walking it than a broken down car.

07Lapierre

ThisRegard wrote: »

Somewhat apt as every time I've been on the road in question, the R157, I've seen either farm machinery or heavy goods vehicles straddle the hard shoulder. They'd be more of a concern to me if I was walking it than a broken down car.

indeed....

"The collision occurred on the N28 Cork /Ringaskiddy Road between the Shannon Park roundabout and Shanbally yesterday at around 1pm"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cyclist-in-her-60s-killed-in-collision-with-tractor-458952.html

I love Sean nos

Lord Nikon wrote: »

I never suggested they shouldn't be walking there, I'm merely highlighting the fact that walking/running in these areas is quite dangerous. Is it necessary to walk in dangerous areas, because someone is entitled to?

Probably as necessary as it is to drive there. However, that question never seems to get asked.

magicbastarder

regarding 'entitlement' to walk; to walk along the road requires no permission, no entitlement, nothing.
to drive along the road, you need to be licenced, taxed, insured, and your vehicle must meet minimum standards. the pedestrian has thus more of a right/entitlement/call it what you will, to be there.

AndrewJRenko

Lord Nikon wrote: »

I never suggested they shouldn't be walking there, I'm merely highlighting the fact that walking/running in these areas is quite dangerous. Is it necessary to walk in dangerous areas, because someone is entitled to?

Walking/running isn't dangerous. It is the driving that is dangerous - that is where the danger and harm arises. The real question is - is it necessary to drive in these potentially dangerous areas, just because someone is entitled to?

Lord Nikon

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Walking/running isn't dangerous. It is the driving that is dangerous - that is where the danger and harm arises. The real question is - is it necessary to drive in these potentially dangerous areas, just because someone is entitled to?

Walking and running isn't dangerous, nor is driving, but when you have pedestrians and drivers on the same road, and introduce speed, the likelihood of an accident increases. It would be potentially dangerous for the walker/runner, not the driver.

magicbastarder

so the car is introducing the danger, but your posts seem to suggest limiting the walker?

Pinch Flat

Car centric group think in Ireland is really getting ridiculous at this stage.

Lord Nikon

magicbastarder wrote: »

so the car is introducing the danger, but your posts seem to suggest limiting the walker?

Oh my god, do you just troll daily? What part of the country do you live?
Roads are not intended for pedestrians, they are for vehicles, and this is why we have such things as paths. Just because walking on the road is legal, doesn’t make it safe to do so. I never stated that pedestrians shouldn’t be on the road, I’m merely highlighting that there is a danger of walking on a road where traffic is travelling at high speed. Dublin and the greater Dublin area/commuter belt it very populated and the majority of traffic in Ireland is the Dublin area.
Sure because it’s legal to walk on the road, there wouldn’t be any problem of pedestrians on any national/regional road, regardless of traffic or speed.

ThisRegard

That's the problem though isn't it, there isn't always paths. The road you mention (in Meath) is pretty good, has decent hard shoulders, a gravel trap and then a wide grass verge on both sides. But even within Dublin itself there's many places that don't have footpaths so the road is used instead.

Pinch Flat

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Oh my god, do you just troll daily? What part of the country do you live?
Roads are not intended for pedestrians, they are for vehicles.....

Really? Given that a huge amount of our roads pre-date the invention of the car, how is this the case?

Lord Nikon wrote: »

and this is why we have such things as paths.

It's a while since I've been on rural roads. Have they constructed paths on each and every one of them in the past while?

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Just because walking on the road is legal, doesn’t make it safe to do so.

It's rare enough you hear of a pedestrian tripping and injuring or killing themselves while walking on rural roads. Yet there seems to be quite a few hit and (mostly) killed by passing cars. Where do you think the problem lies in making roads unsafe?

Lord Nikon wrote: »

I never stated that pedestrians shouldn’t be on the road, I’m merely highlighting that there is a danger of walking on a road where traffic is travelling at high speed.

So, they could do something radical. Like maybe lowering the speeds, or relying on drivers cop on. This would involve an element of personal responsibility on the part of the driver, which seems to be missing from our national psyche. The speed limits are that - a limit, not a target. just a suggestion.[/QUOTE]

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Dublin and the greater Dublin area/commuter belt it very populated and the majority of traffic in Ireland is the Dublin area.
Sure because it’s legal to walk on the road, there wouldn’t be any problem of pedestrians on any national/regional road, regardless of traffic or speed.

And consequently it's probably better served with better infrastructure, including paths for pedestrians. I'd see the fast and irresponsible drivers as more of a problem, rather than the pedestrians themselves.

magicbastarder

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Oh my god, do you just troll daily? What part of the country do you live?
Roads are not intended for pedestrians, they are for vehicles, and this is why we have such things as paths.

i give up.

Lord Nikon

magicbastarder wrote: »

i give up.

As a non-motorist, how would you notice the danger from a motorist point of view?

07Lapierre

Lord Nikon wrote: »

As a non-motorist, how would you notice the danger from a motorist point of view?

Macy0161

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Walking and running isn't dangerous, nor is driving, but when you have pedestrians and drivers on the same road, and introduce speed, the likelihood of an accident increases. It would be potentially dangerous for the walker/runner, not the driver.

Reducing the speed seems to be the solution.

I love Sean nos

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Oh my god, do you just troll daily? What part of the country do you live?
Roads are not intended for pedestrians, they are for vehicles, and this is why we have such things as paths. Just because walking on the road is legal, doesn’t make it safe to do so. I never stated that pedestrians shouldn’t be on the road, I’m merely highlighting that there is a danger of walking on a road where traffic is travelling at high speed. Dublin and the greater Dublin area/commuter belt it very populated and the majority of traffic in Ireland is the Dublin area.
Sure because it’s legal to walk on the road, there wouldn’t be any problem of pedestrians on any national/regional road, regardless of traffic or speed.

So much wrong. I don't know where to begin...

Pinch Flat

I love Sean nos wrote: »

So much wrong. I don't know where to begin...

Maybe here?

I love Sean nos

Lord Nikon wrote: »

As a non-motorist, how would you notice the danger from a motorist point of view?

I find that most of it happens outside the big window at the front of the car, so I look in that direction quite a bit.

Hope that helps.

lucernarian

Lord Nikon wrote: »

As a non-motorist, how would you notice the danger from a motorist point of view?

I find not being inside a 1 tonne metal box on wheels all the time gives me a reasonable sense of what it's like for other road users. I also walk and cycle the roads I drive on and amazingly I don't find it hard to slow down where I need to.

I've had a look some govt. maps of the area around M3 parkway, and I've drive past there a few times, and your claim about there being no housing nearby is completely incorrect. I would be unsurprised to see people walking towards reasonable-quality public transport to the nearby train station... Or should they all drive to it and to Hell or Connaught with the rest?

ThisRegard

You get a lot of people out walking for fitness and running there, I would reckon originating out of Dunboyne and as part of a greater loop around the general area.

07Lapierre

A lot of cyclists are also Motorists
A lot of Pedestrians are also Motorists
Very few motorists are cyclists.
ALL cyclists AND Motorists are Pedestrians.

OP... just let that sink in for a bit.

Pinch Flat