Leaving job in 2 months - they're looking for letter of resignation now?

CruelCoin

I love Sean nos wrote: »

No one is going to think of the OP negatively for giving his contracted notice. People do it all the time. It's perfectly normal.

Really depends on the business.
A small business might need more than a month to find a new staff member and train them up. Someone leaving suddenly, and 1 month really is suddenly, puts people under real pressure.

I'd think really poorly of someone giving me the minimum, especially if i gave them more than that during their employment. They'd get the minimum reference in return, x date to x date.

One small business owner saying to another "he worked here x date to x date" and nothing more is effectively a negative reference, given you can't do that in writing anymore.

CruelCoin

I love Sean nos wrote: »

For people on zero hour contracts, how much notice do you think they should give?

Not relevant, the OP isn't on a zero-hours contract.

Do you want us to comment on your own personal situation or something?

I love Sean nos

CruelCoin wrote: »

Really depends on the business.
A small business might need more than a month to find a new staff member and train them up. Someone leaving suddenly, and 1 month really is suddenly, puts people under real pressure.

Then why have a 1 month notice period specified in the contract? Don't offer contracts that don't meet your needs. If you find yourself in such a situation, open a negotiation and change your contract template.

54and56

I love Sean nos wrote: »

That's it? That's your response?

Yep. It completely encapsulates my feeling towards what you had written.

I feel sad for anyone who has such a small minded "us and them" pedantic mentality.

If you can do something helpful without any downside why not just do it and feel good that you are being a decent person rather than be an ar$ehole jobsworth?

I love Sean nos

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not relevant, the OP isn't on a zero-hours contract.

Do you want us to comment on your own personal situation or something?

Not me, no. But I have an ex-colleague who was on a zero hours contract and said that he wouldn't be in the next day. There was a bit of huffing and puffing, but then it was realised that not only was that in the contract terms that he was on, but it was also in the contract in place for his reporting line.

ohnonotgmail

I love Sean nos wrote: »

...

Ah, you're grasping here. :pac: He's not leaving them overnight, he's giving him in contractual notice, which generally starts at 1 month and increases as per length of service.
...

Unless there is something in their contract to this effect this is not the case. The notice that an employee must provide does not increase with their length of service on a purely statutory basis. The notice that an employer must provide does increase with the employees length of service on a purely statutory basis.

I love Sean nos

CruelCoin wrote: »

I'd think really poorly of someone giving me the minimum, especially if i gave them more than that during their employment. They'd get the minimum reference in return, x date to x date.

To be clear, you'd penalise an employee for the incompetence of a company?

54and56

I love Sean nos wrote: »

To be clear, you'd penalise an employee for the incompetence of a company?

To be clear I, as an employer, would definitely look kindly on an employee who months ahead of time knew his departure date for a year away in Australia and gave me notice as soon as he could so I could arrange his replacement. Conversely if the same employee in the same circumstances waited to give me the minimum notice per his contract when he could easily have done the decent thing and given me more notice I'd look less favourably on him and likely reciprocate when the time came to give a reference etc i.e. if he gave me plenty of notice I'd write a warm positive reference whereas if he was a jobsworth and gave me minimum notice I'd give him a the sort of reference which would make clear to any prospective employer that I didn't have a high opinion of him e.g. "OP worked as an XXX from Jan 2014 to Nov 2017". End of. In my experience the latter usually results in a prospective employer calling for an informal reference by phone at which time I'd tell him exactly how the OP had behaved and if he's looking for the sort of person who works to rule then I'm sure he'd quickly offer the OP a job.

LpPepper

Just updating the thread here, and some background info to make the situation a bit clearer.

I work in Sales on a 5hr contract, but have been working full time since leaving college (colleague went on sick leave shortly after I finished college).

I gave written notice last week and my manager said he would write me a nice reference when the time comes. My reasoning for not giving my statutory minimum notice of 1 week is so I don't burn any bridges. In fairness the company has been pretty decent to me and especially my manager so the same decency is due back in my opinion.

The new person who will assume my position once I leave begins next week, though I assume on the same 5hr contract, as they are a part timer (I think they're in college based on what I've heard). My manager has promised me as many hours as possible for the next few weeks until I leave and based on the rosters for the next 2 weeks, he wasn't
lying. And so everyone knows, I stated that the week ending the 15th December is my last, though I may be available if badly needed in the following week.

Hope that updated this thread adequately.

I love Sean nos

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

To be clear I, as an employer, would definitely look kindly on an employee who months ahead of time knew his departure date for a year away in Australia and gave me notice as soon as he could so I could arrange his replacement. Conversely if the same employee in the same circumstances waited to give me the minimum notice per his contract when he could easily have done the decent thing and given me more notice I'd look less favourably on him and likely reciprocate when the time came to give a reference etc i.e. if he gave me plenty of notice I'd write a warm positive reference whereas if he was a jobsworth and gave me minimum notice I'd give him a the sort of reference which would make clear to any prospective employer that I didn't have a high opinion of him e.g. "OP worked as an XXX from Jan 2014 to Nov 2017". End of. In my experience the latter usually results in a prospective employer calling for an informal reference by phone at which time I'd tell him exactly how the OP had behaved and if he's looking for the sort of person who works to rule then I'm sure he'd quickly offer the OP a job.

That's lovely and all, but it's not an answer to the question that I asked.

The notice period requirement specified in the contract didn't get there by magic. The employee didn't put it there. The employer did. If the employer put in a notice period requirement that doesn't work for them, why would they penalise the employee for it?

By the way, your post explains perfectly exactly why the OP shouldn't have told his employer anything until he absolutely had to.

db

I love Sean nos wrote: »

That's lovely and all, but it's not an answer to the question that I asked.

The notice period requirement specified in the contract didn't get there by magic. The employee didn't put it there. The employer did. If the employer put in a notice period requirement that doesn't work for them, why would they penalise the employee for it?

By the way, your post explains perfectly exactly why the OP shouldn't have told his employer anything until he absolutely had to.

You might want to read the post just before your's from the OP.

54and56

I love Sean nos wrote: »

That's lovely and all, but it's not an answer to the question that I asked.

The notice period requirement specified in the contract didn't get there by magic. The employee didn't put it there. The employer did. If the employer put in a notice period requirement that doesn't work for them, why would they penalise the employee for it?

By the way, your post explains perfectly exactly why the OP shouldn't have told his employer anything until he absolutely had to.

You are determined to be obtuse. If you can't or don't want to distinguish between what the decent thing to do is and the technical minimum per the contract that's on you.

FWIW most contracts are drafted using language which requires "a minimum" of one months notice. Would you set off on a journey with the minimum fuel in the tank to get you there or would you appreciate the comfort of having a little extra in case things don't go according to plan?

If the OP wants to give the minimum notice period maybe the employer should reciprocate the give the minimum reference. Quid pro quo.

The OP can do the decent thing, feel good for doing so, help his colleagues ease his replacement in and generally be a decent bloke or he can follow the narrow minded advice you are offering.

54and56

LpPepper wrote: »

Just updating the thread here, and some background info to make the situation a bit clearer.

I work in Sales on a 5hr contract, but have been working full time since leaving college (colleague went on sick leave shortly after I finished college).

I gave written notice last week and my manager said he would write me a nice reference when the time comes. My reasoning for not giving my statutory minimum notice of 1 week is so I don't burn any bridges. In fairness the company has been pretty decent to me and especially my manager so the same decency is due back in my opinion.

Well said and well done. It's nice to be nice and what goes around comes around in my experience. Much better than treating the company like your enemy!!

LpPepper wrote: »

The new person who will assume my position once I leave begins next week, though I assume on the same 5hr contract, as they are a part timer (I think they're in college based on what I've heard). My manager has promised me as many hours as possible for the next few weeks until I leave and based on the rosters for the next 2 weeks, he wasn't
lying. And so everyone knows, I stated that the week ending the 15th December is my last, though I may be available if badly needed in the following week.

Hope that updated this thread adequately.

Thanks for the update and for demonstrating that the right thing to do and the minimum contractual requirement are not the same thing.

CruelCoin

I love Sean nos wrote: »

That's lovely and all, but it's not an answer to the question that I asked.

The notice period requirement specified in the contract didn't get there by magic. The employee didn't put it there. The employer did. If the employer put in a notice period requirement that doesn't work for them, why would they penalise the employee for it?

By the way, your post explains perfectly exactly why the OP shouldn't have told his employer anything until he absolutely had to.

Why give the minimum though?

It costs the OP nothing. Literally nothing.

54and56

CruelCoin wrote: »

Why give the minimum though?

Because if you are a small minded pedantic Pat it makes you feel all big and powerful to be able to stick it to the company.

I love Sean nos

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Yep. It completely encapsulates my feeling towards what you had written.

I feel sad for anyone who has such a small minded "us and them" pedantic mentality.

If you can do something helpful without any downside why not just do it and feel good that you are being a decent person rather than be an ar$ehole jobsworth?

Happy to be described as "sad" rather than exercise the petty, spiteful, vindictive and cowardly action described by you below.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

To be clear I, as an employer, would definitely look kindly on an employee who months ahead of time knew his departure date for a year away in Australia and gave me notice as soon as he could so I could arrange his replacement. Conversely if the same employee in the same circumstances waited to give me the minimum notice per his contract when he could easily have done the decent thing and given me more notice I'd look less favourably on him and likely reciprocate when the time came to give a reference etc i.e. if he gave me plenty of notice I'd write a warm positive reference whereas if he was a jobsworth and gave me minimum notice I'd give him a the sort of reference which would make clear to any prospective employer that I didn't have a high opinion of him e.g. "OP worked as an XXX from Jan 2014 to Nov 2017". End of. In my experience the latter usually results in a prospective employer calling for an informal reference by phone at which time I'd tell him exactly how the OP had behaved and if he's looking for the sort of person who works to rule then I'm sure he'd quickly offer the OP a job.

Especially this bit. Would offer the reference to the employee, then sabotage it behind his back later, like a weasel.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I'd tell him exactly how the OP had behaved

54and56

Thankfully the OP has shown he's a mature decent person despite your efforts.

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Happy to be described as "sad" rather than exercise the petty, spiteful, vindictive and cowardly action described by you below.

Petty action by employee results in poor reference from employer - shock horror!!

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Especially this bit. Would offer the reference to the employee

Think you need to develop your reading skills or is it possible you are being deliberately misleading?

First of all I wouldn't offer a reference to a jobs worth employee. If asked to provide a reference I would do exactly as I quoted i.e. "OP worked as an XXX from Jan 2014 to Nov 2017"

I love Sean nos wrote: »

then sabotage it behind his back later, like a weasel.

"SABOTAGE" Oh what drama :rolleyes: It would be hard to sabotage a reference which says absolutely nothing positive but the absence of a negative statement in todays litigious world would be clearly understood by any prospective employer. Should such an employer wish to have a call with me to discuss the reference I'd "tell him exactly how the OP had behaved" which may be uncomfortable for you as it doesn't fit your little drama narrative because it's called THE TRUTH. I'd quite happily say the same directly to the OP but these days you can't put anything negative into a written reference for fear of frivolous litigation.

The best reference I ever heard of was given to a guy who had been stealing from a company. It included the line "he did us and I'm sure he'll do you". The sap thought it was a glowing reference but everyone reading it knew exactly what it meant.

What goes around comes around. You gotta love Karma :cool:

I love Sean nos

CruelCoin wrote: »

It costs the OP nothing. Literally nothing.

Not true. Could cost the OP his job.

54and56

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Not true. Could cost the OP his job.

You mean the job he is leaving in a few weeks. Please do enlighten us.

I love Sean nos

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You mean the job he is leaving in a few weeks. Please do enlighten us.

Well obviously I'm not talking about the OP as he has updated us all on his scenario. But it doesn't take much for giving longer notice to work against you.

1. Employee tenders his resignation. Required notice is 1 month. He gives 2 months. Or 3. Doesn't matter, but it's longer than needed because he wants to be helpful.
2. Employer says thanks and starts the process to backfill.
3. Between handing in his notice and the beginning of his final month, the employee's circumstances change. Family member gets sick. Girlfriend gets pregnant. Whatever.
4. Employee approaches employer and attempts to withdraw his resignation.
5. Employer is sympathetic, but has already hired the backfill and no longer has a position for the employee.

I've seen it happen more than once, in two separate companies located in different countries.

daheff

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

FWIW most contracts are drafted using language which requires "a minimum" of one months notice. Would you set off on a journey with the minimum fuel in the tank to get you there or would you appreciate the comfort of having a little extra in case things don't go according to plan?

If the OP wants to give the minimum notice period maybe the employer should reciprocate the give the minimum reference. Quid pro quo.
.

I dont think you live in the real world.

Most employers give only standard worked from x to y date written reference these days because they are afraid of potential legal actions off next employer/ex employee if they say something thats not true or could effect employment.

People also dont provide referees unless they are fairly sure of whats going to be said.


As for minimum notice period....very few people give more than the minimum outlined in their contract. New job will want them starting asap...so if you start messing about with start dates you might find the job pulled.


And your comparison of fuel tank vs notice period is beyond ridiculous. You are trying to compare 2 wholly unrelated scenarios.