I regret taking my new job after 2 weeks.

Hulltiger

I started a new job 2 weeks ago and my gut tells me that I have made a big mistake. I feel completely out of my depth, have struggled to settle In, the working environment isn't great and I can't stop worrying about it.

I left my old work in great terms. Is it a stupid idea to ask for my old job back or should I try force myself through this new job a bit longer?

Snotty

First off, I'd give it more than 2 weeks, there must have been a reason for you leaving the last job and taking this one. Is that reason still valid?

Would your old job take you back now, but maybe not I'm a month's time?

Hulltiger

Snotty wrote: »

First off, I'd give it more than 2 weeks, there must have been a reason for you leaving the last job and taking this one. Is that reason still valid?

Would your old job take you back now, but maybe not I'm a month's time?

I was happy in my old job but had not got a pay increase the whole time I was there and I just gave in to one of the recruitment consultants that kept cold calling me. I went to an interview for a big prestigious company and got offered the job. I was flattered and everyone I knew thought it was a great opportunity. My old boss offered me a pay rise to stay but understood if I took the other job as he said he would have taken it too.

Snotty

I'm all for leaving a job that you don't think is right for you, but I'd also tell people to give it a good shot and don't make decisions too hasty.

What about looking for a totally new job, you left your last employer because they never gave you a pay rise in all the time you were there, that doesn't say much for them. Maybe taking some time to look at what jobs are out there will give you a bit more time to see were your current role is going but also an idea of where you can jump to.

Hulltiger

Snotty wrote: »

I'm all for leaving a job that you don't think is right for you, but I'd also tell people to give it a good shot and don't make decisions too hasty.

What about looking for a totally new job, you left your last employer because they never gave you a pay rise in all the time you were there, that doesn't say much for them. Maybe taking some time to look at what jobs are out there will give you a bit more time to see were your current role is going but also an idea of where you can jump to.

I just know I've made a bad decision and it's eating away at me.

irishmoss

If you really feel this job isn't for you then there is no harm having a chat with your old boss.
However, he may not offer the wage increase he offered when you left.
I know several people who moved back to their old company because the grass is not always greener on the other side! However most of these moved back after a year or two and they were large companies that recruited frequently.

What have you to lose by giving him a call? Weigh up what he says and then make your decision.

Alanstrainor

irishmoss wrote: »

If you really feel this job isn't for you then there is no harm having a chat with your old boss.
However, he may not offer the wage increase he offered when you left.
I know several people who moved back to their old company because the grass is not always greener on the other side! However most of these moved back after a year or two and they were large companies that recruited frequently.

What have you to lose by giving him a call? Weigh up what he says and then make your decision.

I don't know if this is wise so early on. OP, I would not expect to be settled after 2 weeks in a new job, you're still very much at the stage of learning as much as you can and getting used to the work environment. Obviously things must be very different in the new place, but this isn't necessarily a negative. I would echo what others have said and just take some time, give it your best shot.

Meeeee79

I would definitely say give it more time. I genuinely think your first 3/4 months of an new job is literally just finding your feet.

I moved jobs 2 years ago and had a performance review after 6 months which was company standard. My feedback to them was that I felt like I wasnt learning on the job fast enough and may be falling behind with expectations. I had been dreading the review. Turns out they were 100% pleased with how I had gotten on in the first 6 months and were more than happy with my work.

I think when you get settled in one job for afew years you know the place and people inside out and a new job even if its a similar role is completely different. Give it a couple of months more at least and see how you feel. And maybe try and embrace the new job a bit more, an attitude that you hate the place will make it harder to settle.

In the meantime, enjoy the pay rise and some extra cash to splash! Treat yoself!

tomwaits48

you need to stick it out for 3 months minimum.

waraf

I was in the exact same situation a few years ago OP. I knew within a couple of days that the new job wasn't for me so after about 2 weeks in the new job I told a few people I used to work with that I would consider coming back.
They causally mentioned it to my old boss and I ended up meeting her for a coffee and we agreed new terms. Best thing I ever did. Note: you will take an unmerciful slagging from your colleagues

seamus

It's really, really hard to leave a good workplace, somewhere that you were settled, well regarded and liked. I left such a job 4.5 years ago and every now and again I'll still have a dream where I went back; and it's a good dream, it's nice and safe and cosy. The first 6 weeks or so after I'd left, I was asking myself if I'd made a big mistake.

But I left for a reason. And so did you. And that reason hasn't changed. If you went back, you still wouldn't get a decent pay rise. Your good work would continue to go unrewarded.

You need 3-6 months to get up to speed in any new job - between the work itself, the culture and the basic knowledge of who does what, how they do it, and where to get things. Until this settles down, it's easy to feel really uncomfortable and like you've made a big mistake.

RMC10

I would echo what the majority of people are saying. You need to give anything new (job or otherwise) at least 3 months before you can ascertain if its for you not. Its hard to get yourself established in a new company. I was in a similar situation a few years ago. Moved jobs and left the new place in tears on my first day, wanted to call my old boss and ask for my job back. I ended up staying in that company for 4.5 years. Give yourself time to adjust and don't be too hard on yourself.

lawred2

Hulltiger wrote: »

I was happy in my old job but had not got a pay increase the whole time I was there and I just gave in to one of the recruitment consultants that kept cold calling me. I went to an interview for a big prestigious company and got offered the job. I was flattered and everyone I knew thought it was a great opportunity. My old boss offered me a pay rise to stay but understood if I took the other job as he said he would have taken it too.

ah yeah - usual story. Only when you're out the door does the pay rise get offered...

Hold on for a while longer. Everyone finds change a little difficult. Two weeks is no time to start feeling out of your depth. You're probably expecting too much of yourself.

Hulltiger

My only fear is that if I leave it too long then there will be no job for me to go back to.

server down

Hulltiger wrote: »

My only fear is that if I leave it too long then there will be no job for me to go back to.

How friendly were you with your own boss at the end? They may not want to hire you back if the pay rise was refused.

Hulltiger

server down wrote: »

Hulltiger wrote: »

My only fear is that if I leave it too long then there will be no job for me to go back to.

How friendly were you with your own boss at the end? They may not want to hire you back if the pay rise was refused.

Very friendly. I got on great with everyone.

dil999

Hulltiger wrote: »

Very friendly. I got on great with everyone.

Starting a new job is always very stressful, particularly if you were in your previous job for a while. You say you feel out of your depth, you probably are not. Remember your new employer interviewed you and decided you were qualified and experienced enough to do the job. Your old employer, who knew you well, obviously gave you a good reference, which would be a sign of his confidence in your ability.

I would suggest you need to give the new job a year. Your relationship with your old employer has fundamentally changed, and it may be a lot more difficult to return than you imagine.

I would imagine as you start to get to know the new job and the people there, you will get a lot more confidence in yourself and what you do. You will then be able to make a calmer and more planned decision as to how you want to progress your career.

best of luck

ligerdub

The problem with the "stick it out a little longer" advice is that it almost certainly closes the option of going back to the old job. You're then potentially "stuck" in the job you hate and always knew you hated.

I've known a lot of people who have moved back to their previous job quite quickly and it seemed to work out reasonably well for them (oddly enough these tended to be leaving the company I was in to return to a different company).

I mean the old place probably know that you're a flight risk, but they'd probably take the easy option of re-hiring someone they know can do the job over taking the time and the risk of going through the interview/hiring stage with somebody new (perhaps this has already started though). You might end up moving on in a year or so anyway but so what? Your cv will still look like you stayed in one place for (say) 3 years then moved to another place.

A lot of this depends on a couple of things.

Questions you might ask yourself (I'm not asking for an answer myself) might be:

- What were the reasons you left the job or took up the new job?
- Are the reasons for your discomfort in the new job fixable?
i.e. are you feeling uncomfortable in the work you're doing in terms of you being capable of doing the job well? (this is usually fixed with time)
Do you feel you know your colleagues well enough (even enough to make a reasonable impression of them) to base a guess as to whether you'd
like them any better in say 6 months time?
What impression do you get of job satisfaction from other people there who have been there for quite a while?
Are there specific individuals who seem to create a negative atmosphere around the place?
- Are there opportunities within the new job whereby you might not enjoy it but it will enhance your skills or marketability somewhere else?
- I wouldn't be discouraged by feeling less sure, confident or happy in your new role versus your old one, but you can normally trust your instincts as to how much of that is from nerves or insecurity or if it's purely from a complete mismatch or a ****show of a place to work.

If you absolute dread it or hate it then leave, or at least have the conversation with the old boss. I suspect you inherently know what the best course of action is. Whatever that is make the decision, either going back or committing yourself to the current job.

Hulltiger

ligerdub wrote: »

The problem with the "stick it out a little longer" advice is that it almost certainly closes the option of going back to the old job. You're then potentially "stuck" in the job you hate and always knew you hated.

I've known a lot of people who have moved back to their previous job quite quickly and it seemed to work out reasonably well for them (oddly enough these tended to be leaving the company I was in to return to a different company).

I mean the old place probably know that you're a flight risk, but they'd probably take the easy option of re-hiring someone they know can do the job over taking the time and the risk of going through the interview/hiring stage with somebody new (perhaps this has already started though). You might end up moving on in a year or so anyway but so what? Your cv will still look like you stayed in one place for (say) 3 years then moved to another place.

A lot of this depends on a couple of things.

Questions you might ask yourself (I'm not asking for an answer myself) might be:

- What were the reasons you left the job or took up the new job?
- Are the reasons for your discomfort in the new job fixable?
i.e. are you feeling uncomfortable in the work you're doing in terms of you being capable of doing the job well? (this is usually fixed with time)
Do you feel you know your colleagues well enough (even enough to make a reasonable impression of them) to base a guess as to whether you'd
like them any better in say 6 months time?
What impression do you get of job satisfaction from other people there who have been there for quite a while?
Are there specific individuals who seem to create a negative atmosphere around the place?
- Are there opportunities within the new job whereby you might not enjoy it but it will enhance your skills or marketability somewhere else?
- I wouldn't be discouraged by feeling less sure, confident or happy in your new role versus your old one, but you can normally trust your instincts as to how much of that is from nerves or insecurity or if it's purely from a complete mismatch or a ****show of a place to work.

If you absolute dread it or hate it then leave, or at least have the conversation with the old boss. I suspect you inherently know what the best course of action is. Whatever that is make the decision, either going back or committing yourself to the current job.

One of the accountants in the old place have told me that she is going to leave within the next month so I could wait it out until then. I could call my old boss then for a chat? This is a delicate situation and I don't want to destroy myself lol. To make matters worse the recruitment consultant who hired me called me to ask me how the new job was going so I will have to call him back and don't know what to say!

Meeeee79

Hulltiger wrote: »

To make matters worse the recruitment consultant who hired me called me to ask me how the new job was going so I will have to call him back and don't know what to say!

Make sure you're honest with the recruiter, tell them how you're feeling and see what they say. I dont see any point in lying to them.

amcalester

Meeeee79 wrote: »

Make sure you're honest with the recruiter, tell them how you're feeling and see what they say. I dont see any point in lying to them.

The recruiter works for (is paid by) the employer not the OP so I'd be wary of what I said to him/her. At the end of the day all the recruiter is interested in is making sure the OP stays where they are long enough for the commission to be paid.

ligerdub

Hulltiger wrote: »

One of the accountants in the old place have told me that she is going to leave within the next month so I could wait it out until then. I could call my old boss then for a chat? This is a delicate situation and I don't want to destroy myself lol. To make matters worse the recruitment consultant who hired me called me to ask me how the new job was going so I will have to call him back and don't know what to say!

Yeah seems like a fair strategy. If there was any way you could find out (discreetly of course) if they'd progressed in terms of the plan to replace you then I'd do that.

The last thing I'd be considering is the sensitivities of a recruitment agent. They are usually a lot more persistent in calling you in the lead up to a hire. Once you're in the job they'll give you a courtesy call but I doubt they'll go out of their way to find out your views. They are obviously going to try and protect their fee (understandably) so you're not going to get independent advice there.

Don't call him back if you don't want to, and if you do you can say it wasn't what you were expecting and it hasn't been an encouraging start. Keep it brief and don't get into a situation where you promise them you'll stay (even though you may end up staying).

I'm not saying leave (there may be value in staying put), but I will say that the option to go back might be preferable and is a valid option.

miamee

Why are you so eager to go back to an old job that you went out of your way to leave?

If the new place is not to your liking and you don't get along with people or can't manage the work (after 2 weeks you wouldn't be expected to know everything though so it's unrealistic to think not knowing everything is a bad sign), then if it were me, I'd be looking for a new new job, not a backwards step to the old one. Unless you are in an industry where jobs are really scarce, I'd be looking at going back to the old place as a very last resort.

Galadriel

miamee wrote: »

Why are you so eager to go back to an old job that you went out of your way to leave?

Because he didn't get a pay increase the whole time he was there.

miamee

Galadriel wrote: »

Because he didn't get a pay increase the whole time he was there.

Well he definitely won't be getting one if he goes back, will he? At least I'd imagine not, they'll only be waiting for him to leave again when he finds something better.

Galadriel

miamee wrote: »

Well he definitely won't be getting one if he goes back, will he? At least I'd imagine not, they'll only be waiting for him to leave again when he finds something better.

Maybe read the OPs posts above....

Galadriel

I am always the same when I start a new job OP, I instantly regret leaving my old job and I think I actually did ask one place years ago for my job back :eek: didn't get it though.

You have to give it more time to truly know if it's a right fit or not.

daheff

firstly, dont worry.

EVERYBODY (and i mean everybody) feels out of their comfort-zone starting a new job. All their previous routines are gone (you probably have a different commute as well). All their old friends are not in the same office (neither are the muppets).

Humans are creatures of habit. We like familiar things, surroundings and routines. And people. Once you settle in a bit more and get a couple of work buddies it will be much easier.

It will take time to get used to the new job. It could take 6 months until you feel properly settled.

but don't just throw in the towel and go back to the old job. If you do, they'll know they have you for life and will treat you even more like dirt than they did before hand.


Stick with it for a while- give the job a chance. If after 6 months it still doesnt feel right, then start looking again.

amtc

Absolutely don't tell the recruiter how you feel. They are essentially a salesperson not your friend. They get paid if you stay for a certain amount of time. I wouldn't even call back or if you do make it short and sweet.

No harm in meeting your old boss just to keep in touch. But give it more than two weeks.

Having said that I went back to a company I lived after ten years!

Meeeee79

amcalester wrote: »

The recruiter works for (is paid by) the employer not the OP so I'd be wary of what I said to him/her. At the end of the day all the recruiter is interested in is making sure the OP stays where they are long enough for the commission to be paid.

Exactly, so if they are aware that the OP is not happy it can be passed down the line. I'm well aware that the recruiter works for the employer. Still don't see the point in lying and telling them all is hunky dorey. They may be able to communicate some of your difficulties to your new employer.

Kalimah

I'm in much the same position. I'm two weeks into a new job and absolutely hate it. It's an admin job, which is really the only thing I'm qualified for unfortunately. I was 14 years in a job that I did like, but left as I felt I was in a rut. I then went to another admin role but that was so badly organised and run I left after a year of mayhem.
I can't begin to say how much I hate every bit of this new place. I'd do anything to leave.

channelsurfer2

I changed job - new promotion different place -hated it or in my head at least I think I did now not so sure from day 1 and changed back to old job after 2 weeks. kinda difficult I know but maybe give it a couple of months from personal experience as once you go back you might have the same feelings of regret. As others have said its all new - new routine new people and new ways of working. Going back to the old place while it may seem an ideal solution dont consider it first - don't rush like I did.

amcalester

Meeeee79 wrote: »

Exactly, so if they are aware that the OP is not happy it can be passed down the line. I'm well aware that the recruiter works for the employer. Still don't see the point in lying and telling them all is hunky dorey. They may be able to communicate some of your difficulties to your new employer.

I never suggested lying, I wouldn't bother returning the call at all.

The OP is in a better position to explain their concerns to the employer directly, no need to involve a biased third party.

Meeeee79

amcalester wrote: »

I never suggested lying, I wouldn't bother returning the call at all.

The OP is in a better position to explain their concerns to the employer directly, no need to involve a biased third party.

The OP said they didn't know what to say to the recruiter, I was advising them what I would do.

You said to be wary of what you tell them, lying/economic with the truth, whatever you want to call what you were suggesting to them, I don't agree with. If the OP wanted to talk to their employer Im sure they could have done so before now and so my suggestion is that it may be easier to go through the recruiter for that very reason, its a third party.

amcalester

Meeeee79 wrote: »

The OP said they didn't know what to say to the recruiter, I was advising them what I would do.

You said to be wary of what you tell them, lying/economic with the truth, whatever you want to call what you were suggesting to them, I don't agree with. If the OP wanted to talk to their employer Im sure they could have done so before now and so my suggestion is that it may be easier to go through the recruiter for that very reason, its a third party.

Not sure why you're persisting with the misrepresentation that I said the OP should lie to the recruiter, I told the OP to be wary i.e. cautious in what they say to the recruiter.

Any way I don't want this to turn into a tit for tat so I'll leave it there, you gave your opinion I gave mine.

Hulltiger

Meeeee79 wrote: »

amcalester wrote: »

The recruiter works for (is paid by) the employer not the OP so I'd be wary of what I said to him/her. At the end of the day all the recruiter is interested in is making sure the OP stays where they are long enough for the commission to be paid.

Exactly, so if they are aware that the OP is not happy it can be passed down the line. I'm well aware that the recruiter works for the employer. Still don't see the point in lying and telling them all is hunky dorey. They may be able to communicate some of your difficulties to your new employer.

I would have thought it would have been better to keep it a secret from the recruiter how I feel invade my only option is to try slug the job out.

BrokenArrows

Any new job is going to be stressful and any will present you new challenges and be somewhat stressful for a while as you get to know the job and the people.

You must give it more time than 2 weeks. If you're still not feeling it after 2 months then you have something to consider.

Jayop

If you go back to your old job (or even had you accepted the raise and stayed) how long will you be waiting for another pay bump?

I left a job after being there three years on the same start salary despite having been told over and over I would get a raise. When I eventually told them to put up or shut up they said no to the raise and I accepted another role I had been called about. Of course once I told them I was leaving they immediately offered me the raise. I left anyway because I knew in another three years I'd still not have gotten another raise.

The new job didn't go well as the company went under 2 years later, but I've no regrets. Job 1 was better but I felt I wasn't being appreciated and that's important.

Beanie5

Hi OP,

I've been in this situation before too, I think it depends on what you don't like about the new job. Is it the people, the culture or the work itself? In a previous role I knew after week one that it wasn't for me. I liked the people and there was a great atmosphere but the work just wasn't challenging enough so I knew I had to go. My advice would be that if you're really sure it's not the place for you, then bide your time and start looking around. Don't just leave for anything, make sure it's something you really want. I know it's tempting to go back to your old job, but you don't want to feel like you're going backwards either.

stevenmu

Changing jobs is a funny thing.

About 3.5 years ago I started a new job doing pretty much exactly what I had done before but with better terms and conditions. I was literally being productive on my first day there. But I still felt out of place and like I had made a huge mistake for months. But after that I did really come to enjoy it and felt like I belonged there.

Hulltiger

Beanie5 wrote: »

Hi OP,

I've been in this situation before too, I think it depends on what you don't like about the new job. Is it the people, the culture or the work itself? In a previous role I knew after week one that it wasn't for me. I liked the people and there was a great atmosphere but the work just wasn't challenging enough so I knew I had to go. My advice would be that if you're really sure it's not the place for you, then bide your time and start looking around. Don't just leave for anything, make sure it's something you really want. I know it's tempting to go back to your old job, but you don't want to feel like you're going backwards either.

The work itself is not something I have ever really done before. It's like starting new career rather than a new job. The environment isn't the best. Nobody takes their lunch together for example.

Hulltiger

Galadriel wrote: »

I am always the same when I start a new job OP, I instantly regret leaving my old job and I think I actually did ask one place years ago for my job back :eek: didn't get it though.

You have to give it more time to truly know if it's a right fit or not.

How long was it until you asked for your old job back?

screamer

2 weeks is not enough time to make a decision and if you go around telling yourself it's not for you....it won't be.
Also going back to your old job.....really? I'd not go back for a couple of reasons but most importantly I'd worry they will think they have you now.... And you'll get no pay rises and be overlooked for everything cause they know you'll just accept it and stay.
Think twice about what you're going to do.

ligerdub

Why isn't it?

He's met the people, he's sensed the atmosphere, and I suspect he's seen the work. I've known people who have left jobs after 2 days and colleagues said to me that it stood out straight away that he didn't fit in and it didn't suit him. They knew it, and he obviously knew it. Perhaps it's the same for the OP.

I stayed in a job for a year despite the fact that I knew within the first morning that I'd made a big mistake in taking it. It was the most miserable year of my working career by a long way, and that was after trying to take the positives.

There is an air of continuity in your CV by returning back to the previous role. You can say "stick it out for 6 months and then move", but your CV says, job 1, job 2, job 3 within the space of a year or so. The assumed wisdom is that this isn't a desirable CV trait, so I don't see how it's any better than going back to a job he knew he liked and enjoyed, and he can avoid that particular conundrum.

The OP has pretty much said he regretted leaving the old job and he got on well with everyone. The only stumbling block was money, which is not the be all and end all. He might even manage to negotiate an increase on what he was on before he left.

tara73

I don't know if it's a good idea to go back to your old job. They might employ you again, but do you really think everything will be the same as before?

I was in a bit of a same situation recently. It wasn't that I came back from another job, but I was ill for a few month when I just started the job. I thought it was great they didn't fire me, which they easily could have during probation time. so thought everything is great when I started again after my illness. But I soon realised it wasn't as great and I actually kind of had the position of a 'person non grata'. I still don't know if they did it consciously or subcounsciously, but I was treated very badly.

Just a possibility to be aware of, that they might see it as a completely new start and you have to prove to be able to climb the ladder from down below again.

Caroleia

OP I've had a number of jobs and no way did I feel comfortable in any of them at the two week stage. In fact, with one that I now remember with a lot of affection, I also remember meeting a friend for lunch at around the three month stage and crying and saying I had made a terrible mistake! Please give it at least six months. It's always possible your previous employer will have you back as they know your worth and employers love to employ known quantities. Or of course if you still want a change you could move on again.. I'd be very bitter about an employer who hadn't given any kind of raise as your old one did.,

Hulltiger

Caroleia wrote: »

OP I've had a number of jobs and no way did I feel comfortable in any of them at the two week stage. In fact, with one that I now remember with a lot of affection, I also remember meeting a friend for lunch at around the three month stage and crying and saying I had made a terrible mistake! Please give it at least six months. It's always possible your previous employer will have you back as they know your worth and employers love to employ known quantities. Or of course if you still want a change you could move on again.. I'd be very bitter about an employer who hadn't given any kind of raise as your old one did.,

It will be a huge effort my me to make it to six months. If I do make it what do I do for my CV? Do I leave the job out of it or include it? I also feel bad as the new company will have spent time trying to train me only for me to leave.

davo10

Hulltiger wrote: »

It will be a huge effort my me to make it to six months. If I do make it what do I do for my CV? Do I leave the job out of it or include it? I also feel bad as the new company will have spent time trying to train me only for me to leave.

Though your old company may be a better fit for you, ask yourself this, why would they offer to pay you the higher wage and why would they offer any pay increase again in future? You will have shown them that you are willing to work for less in order to stay where you are happy, they won't need to pay you more.

Ultimately you will need to decide if your old dead end job suits you better than a new job with prospects, if your old boss is telling you to take the new job, that tells you and everyone else that you were going nowhere in your old job.

Jobs OXO

Hulltiger wrote: »

The work itself is not something I have ever really done before. It's like starting new career rather than a new job. The environment isn't the best. Nobody takes their lunch together for example.

There's an awful bang of snowflake off this. People don't take lunches together like the old place. Well boo hoo.

You need to man up. A place of work is a business not a social club. You have been given the opportunity to earn more so work hard and contribute to the work that will make your company more profitable.

Teyla Emmagan

Hulltiger wrote:

The work itself is not something I have ever really done before. It's like starting new career rather than a new job. The environment isn't the best. Nobody takes their lunch together for example.

This is an opportunity to learn then OP. Unless you accidentally took a job in another industry. 2 weeks is nothing and, in my experience, only useless eejits go back to an old job. And if you do they will have you by the short and curlies forever.

Caroleia

Hulltiger wrote: »

It will be a huge effort my me to make it to six months. If I do make it what do I do for my CV? Do I leave the job out of it or include it? I also feel bad as the new company will have spent time trying to train me only for me to leave.

I wouldn't feel too bad about any company, they will drop you or anyone else without a moments thought if it suits them - it's how business works. As to your CV, if you did decide to move on after the six months, you could just try being honest about it-say it isn't working out for you in the new company, it should only be a concern if you had a series of 6 month stints on it. You have cold feet at the moment - its understandable, but if you go back as someone else said, they'll have you by the short and curlies forever - stay strong