Bottom shaming

MarriedButBi

It is probably similar to the reservations straight guys would have about asking their female partner to finger / rim / use a strap-on on them? i.e. that engaging in such behaviour somehow makes them less of a man. Or worse, it makes them gay and/or less of a man because of that.

JackTaylorFan

My take on this is a little different.

Been trying a dating site specifically for transwomen and transamorous men (or "admirers") of late. But to be honest, I've always struggled with the idea of using sites like this, because they are designed in a lot of cases for clandestine, once-off sexual encounters - not relationships.

But this most recent site, at least on the face of it, tries to keep the seediness and sexual charged energy down to a minimum. So, I am willing to put myself out there.

Anyways, one of the questions the profile section asks of you on this site is as follows: Are you a "Top or Bottom?" So as a woman, trans or otherwise, I have some objections to being asked this; it's not something a woman usually wants to be asked, ever.

Needless to say, I find this question a little bit offensive, and very much intrusive - but as I am doing all I can to seek a relationship (including putting myself in these uncomfortable scenarios), I answer, even if between gritted teeth.

Now, seeing as I would like be considered the female in any aspect of a relationship with a man, I reluctantly divulge that I am indeed what you refer to as a "bottom". Problem is (and here's when I remember why I hate these trans-orientated dating sites so - even the less seedy ones), a large portion of transamorous men (A.K.A. chasers) are bottoms, and well, it's a real turn off, not to mention makes me and them entirely incompatible.

And, yes, I know it might offend some here, but I do see it as an effeminate thing for a guy to be a bottom. Not that being a bottom in itself a bad thing, but when it comes to the kind of highly fetishized world of transwomen and their "admirers" it's too weird for me.

cgcsb

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

My take on this is a little different.

Been trying a dating site specifically for transwomen and transamorous men (or "admirers") of late. But to be honest, I've always struggled with the idea of using sites like this, because they are designed in a lot of cases for clandestine, once-off sexual encounters - not relationships.

But this most recent site, at least on the face of it, tries to keep the seediness and sexual charged energy down to a minimum. So, I am willing to put myself out there.

Anyways, one of the questions the profile section asks of you on this site is as follows: Are you a "Top or Bottom?" So as a woman, trans or otherwise, I have some objections to being asked this; it's not something a woman usually wants to be asked, ever.

Needless to say, I find this question a little bit offensive, and very much intrusive - but as I am doing all I can to seek a relationship (including putting myself in these uncomfortable scenarios), I answer, even if between gritted teeth.

Now, seeing as I would like be considered the female in any aspect of a relationship with a man, I reluctantly divulge that I am indeed what you refer to as a "bottom". Problem is (and here's when I remember why I hate these trans-orientated dating sites so - even the less seedy ones), a large portion of transamorous men (A.K.A. chasers) are bottoms, and well, it's a real turn off, not to mention makes me and them entirely incompatible.

And, yes, I know it might offend some here, but I do see it as an effeminate thing for a guy to be a bottom. Not that being a bottom in itself a bad thing, but when it comes to the kind of highly fetishized world of transwomen and their "admirers" it's too weird for me.

If bottoming makes you feel more feminine, that's fine. Gay guys don't feel that way in general. I'm attracted to and enjoy penetrating other men, I don't view said men as feminine, and they don't view themselves as such. Your experience of issues is EXTREMELY niche.

Goodshape

cgcsb wrote: »

Your experience of issues is EXTREMELY niche.

Ah, I think there's plenty of cross-over, and even if it is niche it's no less relevant to the topic or less interesting.

JackTaylorFan wrote:

Needless to say, I find this question a little bit offensive, and very much intrusive

I can see how you might alright. It is, though, a hook-up/dating site so I suppose the question is as relevant there as it is on any other (Grindr, etc.).

And isn't there also that separation between gender identity and.. well, everything else really. Sex, sexual orientation, sexual preferences, and so forth. A trans woman who does enjoy penetrating is surely no less of a woman because of it. It's not the genitals or the bedroom antics that make the gender.


Whether being penetrated is a strictly feminine thing... I suppose we usually, collectively, associate being penetrated with being submissive, and being submissive with being feminine – so that's pretty clear cut. The more pressing issue is whether being feminine makes you any less male (it doesn't) or is in any way shameful (it isn't).

JackTaylorFan

Goodshape wrote: »

Ah, I think there's plenty of cross-over, and even if it is niche it's no less relevant to the topic or less interesting.



I can see how you might alright. It is, though, a hook-up/dating site so I suppose the question is as relevant there as it is on any other (Grindr, etc.).

And isn't there also that separation between gender identity and.. well, everything else really. Sex, sexual orientation, sexual preferences, and so forth. A trans woman who does enjoy penetrating is surely no less of a woman because of it. It's not the genitals or the bedroom antics that make the gender.


Whether being penetrated is a strictly feminine thing... I suppose we usually, collectively, associate being penetrated with being submissive, and being submissive with being feminine – so that's pretty clear cut. The more pressing issue is whether being feminine makes you any less male (it doesn't) or is in any way shameful (it isn't).

Problem is, this site markets itself as something other than a hook-up site. But it's pretty apparent once you sign up, that what you get.

I take your point about roles in bedrooms not necessarily being defined by gender. But the vast majority of transwomen are what you would describe as the passive partner.

You see it a lot in pornography, where transwomen "top" - but it's not near as common in real life as that porn culture would suggest. Again, I am sure some do enjoy that role but not as many as that culture would have you believe.

Again, I have no issue with feminine males in general - I'm just not attracted to it. When a bottom guy on these sites approaches me and wants me to "top" him (for lack of a better phrase), I do feel nauseous.

JackTaylorFan

cgcsb wrote: »

If bottoming makes you feel more feminine, that's fine. Gay guys don't feel that way in general. I'm attracted to and enjoy penetrating other men, I don't view said men as feminine, and they don't view themselves as such. Your experience of issues is EXTREMELY niche.

It's not that bottoming makes me feel more feminine. It's more like I'm female so I desire that role in any scenario - including in the bedroom.

And my experience of "issues" is not as "NICHE" as you suggest. But I get it, you don't want to hear what I have to say - Cool!

Annasopra

cgcsb wrote: »

If bottoming makes you feel more feminine, that's fine. Gay guys don't feel that way in general. I'm attracted to and enjoy penetrating other men, I don't view said men as feminine, and they don't view themselves as such. Your experience of issues is EXTREMELY niche.

I'm not sure what your point here is really. "in general" means "some do some don't" and yeah so what if experiences are niche.

imme

"Shaming"

I find this language, "bottom-shaming", "kink-shaming" very American.
It's very pop-psychology like language imo.

Is it anything more than online chatter.
Is it an actual thing.

The reference you made OP was to a group of people online making judgement about whether a character would be a bottom.

It is difficult to understand the reasoning of a group of people that are unknown to anyone outside that group.

JackTaylorFan

imme wrote: »

"Shaming"

I find this language, "bottom-shaming", "kink-shaming" very American.
It's very pop-psychology like language imo.

Is it anything more than online chatter.
Is it an actual thing.
.

In a social construct kink-shaming is a real thing. It is a concept just like racism is a concept. These concepts are not tangible, but it does not invalidate the reasoning behind them.

In a sexually liberated society we are asked to accept that people have a right to do whatever they want with their bodies as long as it breaks no laws and involves only consenting adults. But when you apply this same thinking to a world where morality is relative, not universal, some behaviours will garner more judgement than others from a certain group or individual - and this is where shaming comes in.

For instance, if we take an extreme case, the whole adult diaper wearing thing. Psychology classifies it as paraphilic (or kink) behaviour. I happen to find it a gross fetish. And I could very well be accused of kink-shaming for saying that by someone more open-minded than myself. Am I going to become less grossed out by it ever? Not a chance. But to someone out there I am kink shaming. And I have to accept that.

In contrast: take a more acceptable sexual behaviour in society and imagine passing judgement on that: For instance, slut-shaming: it's less acceptable to shame people for this than it is shaming someone for having a gross fetish, but to say it doesn't happen would be a lie. The target of slut shaming is predominantly women, with a large proportion of those carrying out the shaming also women - and I would draw a parallel between bottom-shaming in the male gay community and woman-on-woman slut-shaming.

imme

pop psychology

I'm left with the opinion that this is a pop-psychology construct.
Thanks for your opinion however Jack\Taylor\fan