Flashing Green Man Traffic Lights

torrevieja

When the green man is flashing can pedestrians. Cross the road ?

devnull

It means that you can finish crossing the road but you should not start.

_Kaiser_

As someone who spends a bit of time in Cork city and walk around it too, I have to say, the green man cycles are shockingly low/bad. First you stand there for ages, and then they've barely gone green and they're already flashing Probably why there's so much jay-walking.

Even as a 99% motorist this would piss me off.

brokenarms

While we are on the subject of crossing the road.

Must a motorist yield to a mounted cyclist on a zebra crossing. What is the law on such a matter?

I love Sean nos

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Probably why there's so much jay-walking.

There's no such thing as jaywalking in Ireland. Hopefully that will cheer you up.

Isambard

brokenarms wrote: »

While we are on the subject of crossing the road.

Must a motorist yield to a mounted cyclist on a zebra crossing. What is the law on such a matter?

i'd say no, I wouldn't anyway

I love Sean nos

brokenarms wrote: »

While we are on the subject of crossing the road.

Must a motorist yield to a mounted cyclist on a zebra crossing. What is the law on such a matter?

You're allowed to run right over them, but only if their wheels are on the black stripes, so time it right.

What do you think?

L1011

The flashing green / no amber pedestrian lights are an oddity here - except in Cork. Is there a reason other than presumbly someones personal choice for that/

brokenarms

I love Sean nos wrote: »

You're allowed to run right over them, but only if their wheels are on the black stripes, so time it right.

What do you think?

Why are you confused?


If a cyclist is mounted on a bike and waiting to cross the road at a zebra crossing.

Does he have right of way.

No need for the sarcasm pal. Its a simple question. :rolleyes:

Tarabuses

brokenarms wrote: »

While we are on the subject of crossing the road.

Must a motorist yield to a mounted cyclist on a zebra crossing. What is the law on such a matter?

A mounted cyclist shouldn't be on a zebra crossing but that doesn't mean you can run them over.

brokenarms

Tarabuses wrote: »

A mounted cyclist shouldn't be on a zebra crossing but that doesn't mean you can run them over.

Thanks.

There is a local roundabout here where the cycle lane leads onto the footpath. and then onto a crossing.

It seems to me that there should be a sign advising cycles to dismount. But they usually just blindly cross the 4 lanes. I have seen a few near accidents with the issue.

I love Sean nos

Tarabuses wrote: »

A mounted cyclist shouldn't be on a zebra crossing but that doesn't mean you can run them over.

There are some cycle lanes that lead onto (into?) pedestrian crossings.

Isambard

those have a cycle phase on the lights or dual green man/cyclist lights

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

The flashing green / no amber pedestrian lights are an oddity here - except in Cork. Is there a reason other than presumbly someones personal choice for that/

History, very like system in Britain with a slight twist. Most of the lights in the city center are also very old when you compare to most cities. Belfast is the same as Cork if I can remember correctly.

Cork people like to be different anyway

Waterford city and county council have also put in one or two sets like it as well in the last year.

I love Sean nos

brokenarms wrote: »

Why are you confused?


If a cyclist is mounted on a bike and waiting to cross the road at a zebra crossing.

Does he have right of way.

No need for the sarcasm pal. Its a simple question. :rolleyes:

Oh, you were asking a serious question. Sorry, didn't realise.

If the chap on the bike does have right of way, knows he has right of way and goes, you'll have to stop your motor.

If the chap on the bike doesn't have right of way, but thinks that he does, he's going to go and you'll have to stop your motor.

If the chap on the bike doesn't have the right of way and knows that, he won't go. You need to be ready to stop as he doesn't look any different than the other two above.

In other words, drive defensively.

Carawaystick

brokenarms wrote: »

It seems to me that there should be a sign advising cycles to dismount.

Cycles can usually only dismount a kerb.
If you meant cyclist to dismount, you'ld probably be back whinging when the prople cycling remount their bikes, in the exact same spot. Unless you have some bulletproof solution to how every person cycling would be able to get to the remount sign. Given that not all people cycling can walk, let alone walk and push their bike.

Alun

L1011 wrote: »

The flashing green / no amber pedestrian lights are an oddity here - except in Cork. Is there a reason other than presumbly someones personal choice for that/

We have some here in Bray where the phase after green is nothing, zilch, just blank, and then after a few seconds, red. Very strange.

brokenarms

Carawaystick wrote: »

Cycles can usually only dismount a kerb.
If you meant cyclist to dismount, you'ld probably be back whinging when the prople cycling remount their bikes, in the exact same spot. Unless you have some bulletproof solution to how every person cycling would be able to get to the remount sign. Given that not all people cycling can walk, let alone walk and push their bike.

Thanks. For your wise words.
You should tell the people who make road signs they have been getting it wrong for years.

lucernarian

brokenarms wrote: »

Thanks. For your wise words.
You should tell the people who make road signs they have been getting it wrong for years.

More often a case of the county council shovel nurses not knowing what sign to use when, or the general "it'll be grand" attitude when most things to do with cycle lanes were built.

_Kaiser_

I love Sean nos wrote: »

There's no such thing as jaywalking in Ireland. Hopefully that will cheer you up.

*sigh* It might not be a prosecutable offence, but I'm sure you well know what I was referring to,

Tombo2001

Just to add

I think these traffic lights are confusing - a lot of people will not know what they mean.

Especially kids.

average_runner

Zebra crossing are used as the only crossing option on a number of recently installed and planned cycling routes, but designers have forgotten a key element: cyclists dismount signs.
Zebra crossings are a type of signalised pedestrian crossings which people on bicycles are not legally allowed to use, the Department of Transport confirmed last week in an email reply to this website.Despite this, the National Transport Authority (NTA) has promoted and funded the design of zebra crossings on cycle routes, mainly it seems at roundabouts. The NTA, however, said that it is “incumbent on designers to ensure that correct signage is in place”.




they just forgot!!!!!!!!!!

Quackster

Alun wrote: »

We have some here in Bray where the phase after green is nothing, zilch, just blank, and then after a few seconds, red. Very strange.

Same elsewhere in the country outside of Dublin and perhaps the other cities. Only the newest pedestrian signals tend to have an orange phase.

Pelican crossings are where you tend to come across the flashing green pedestrian signal phase. The pedestrian signals flash green while the traffic signals flash orange.

flaneur

The traffic lights in Cork City centre aren't particularly old. They're mostly the just the normal Siemens Helios traffic lights you see in many areas other than Dublin City Council and also see right across the UK.

Cork's always used the flashing green man and Dublin's always used the amber man phase for as long as I can remember anyway. I certainly remember there being amber man traffic signals when I was a kid and that's a good few years ago at this stage.

Cork traffic lights with counters also count down the pedestrian crossing green man phase where as Dublin ones count TO the green man phase, telling you how long to wait.

The other odd one I've seen in Cork is where lights are switched off you'll get a flashing red light on one side and flashing orange on the other.

I think you've just got different councils taking slightly different approaches and also using different suppliers of traffic light systems.

I know for example the Cork traffic management system is SCOOT where as Dublin uses SCATS

_Kaiser_

Alun wrote: »

We have some here in Bray where the phase after green is nothing, zilch, just blank, and then after a few seconds, red. Very strange.

That's the way they were for years as far as I remember. Still see a lot of these around outside Dublin.

It's only relatively recently that the 3 colour pedestrian lights came along, and then followed by the countdown timer on some crossings after that.

flaneur

They were in Drumcondra in the 1980s

Carawaystick

brokenarms wrote: »

Thanks. For your wise words.
You should tell the people who make road signs they have been getting it wrong for years.

Show me a sign anywhere in Ireland that says "cycles dismount"

torrevieja

Did i start all this ? sorry

i have another question i was passing a road which had temp traffic lights but these lights were the UK one were you get the Amber light first ,

Are these legal in the Republic ?

thesandeman

I always laugh at the ones they use in parts of Granada, Spain. The green man sequence is animated, if that's the correct description. At the beginning he is walking slowly. As time passes he speeds up gradually, until by the end he is running like the clappers. It's like watching a cartoon.
I had a video somewhere but can't find it.

Charles Babbage

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As someone who spends a bit of time in Cork city and walk around it too, I have to say, the green man cycles are shockingly low/bad. First you stand there for ages, and then they've barely gone green and they're already flashing Probably why there's so much jay-walking.

Even as a 99% motorist this would piss me off.

I'm not sure why, anyone waiting or near the crossing can cross. The flashing phase in long to cater for the slowest crosser.

IMHO the 3 phase ped lights used in Dublin city is a superior model, but even in Dl Rathown they like to be different.

HonalD

torrevieja wrote: »

Did i start all this ? sorry

i have another question i was passing a road which had temp traffic lights but these lights were the UK one were you get the Amber light first ,

Are these legal in the Republic ?

No and you should report to the relevant local authority that the contractor is using illegal traffic signals and they’ll be liable for any incidents following your report.

The reason this happens is that either the contractor sources the lights in the north cheaper or by default all traffic signals have a starting Amber programmed in them when purchased from the U.K. except it is by-passed in the Republic.....or should be.

HonalD

The Traffic Signs Manual specifies the way traffic signals should function I.e. 2-man, 3-man pedestrian aspects. So there are different configurations for stand alone pelican crossings, toucan crossings and crossings at junctions. Cork City do deviate from the Signs Manual at junctions.....but that’s because they’re Cork.

brokenarms

Carawaystick wrote: »

Show me a sign anywhere in Ireland that says "cycles dismount"

WHy?
Is there something wrong with your internet? Have you lost the ability to search for images? Its quite easy.

flaneur

How does Cork City deviate from the manual ?

HonalD

flaneur wrote: »

How does Cork City deviate from the manual ?

Red man, amber man, green man pedestrian signal heads are specified for junctions, Cork City do not use this configuration.

flaneur

I don’t honestly think the amber man adds anything to the clarity of it. The flashing green makes sense and saves a lot of clutter on the pole.


The biggest issue I’m finding is where the LED greens are WAY too bright to the point that in dull street lighting they can make it very difficult to see beyond them. It’s not of an issue with the LED lamps used in Dublin but the odd Cork set is similarly blinding.

I also find sometimes it’s hard to see the arrow shapes as the light is too bright and it just swamps the shape and looks like a full green unless you’re on top of it.

I much prefer the old design with the long arrow head an the less intense lighting. They need to do something to moderate the LEDs a bit. They’re too glaring, and more so those white ones used In Dublin.

cython

HonalD wrote: »

Red man, amber man, green man pedestrian signal heads are specified for junctions, Cork City do not use this configuration.

Not unique to Cork to be honest. The junction of Leeson Street with Stephen's Green actually had three-aspect signals removed and two-aspect signals installed in their place within the last year in Dublin.

HonalD

cython wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

Red man, amber man, green man pedestrian signal heads are specified for junctions, Cork City do not use this configuration.

Not unique to Cork to be honest. The junction of Leeson Street with Stephen's Green actually had three-aspect signals removed and two-aspect signals installed in their place within the last year in Dublin.

Ok, but they’re not compliant with the regulations then.

Quackster

HonalD wrote: »

Red man, amber man, green man pedestrian signal heads are specified for junctions, Cork City do not use this configuration.

Most junctions in the country outside Dublin don't have amber pedestrian signals. The novelty in Cork is having a flashing green man instead of an amber man. Elsewhere there's a second or two of nothingness between green and red.

GM228

HonalD wrote: »

torrevieja wrote: »

Did i start all this ? sorry

i have another question i was passing a road which had temp traffic lights but these lights were the UK one were you get the Amber light first ,

Are these legal in the Republic ?

No and you should report to the relevant local authority that the contractor is using illegal traffic signals and they’ll be liable for any incidents following your report.

The reason this happens is that either the contractor sources the lights in the north cheaper or by default all traffic signals have a starting Amber programmed in them when purchased from the U.K. except it is by-passed in the Republic.....or should be.

There is nothing in law requiring the traffic lights to light in any particular sequence for temporary traffic lights.

HonalD wrote: »

The Traffic Signs Manual specifies the way traffic signals should function I.e. 2-man, 3-man pedestrian aspects. So there are different configurations for stand alone pelican crossings, toucan crossings and crossings at junctions. Cork City do deviate from the Signs Manual at junctions.....but that’s because they’re Cork.

How exactly do they deviate, what is in the traffic signs manual is not fully supported by legislation, the manual also only applies to lights installed after November 2010. Under the old manual there was no preferences.

HonalD wrote: »

Red man, amber man, green man pedestrian signal heads are specified for junctions, Cork City do not use this configuration.

It's actually red man, green man, amber man, red man.

cython

GM228 wrote: »

There is nothing in law requiring the traffic lights to light in any particular sequence for temporary traffic lights.





How exactly do they deviate, what is in the traffic signs manual is not fully supported by legislation, the manual also only applies to lights installed after November 2010. Under the old manual there was no preferences.





It's actually red man, green man, amber man, red man.

I think on the last point the poster was referring to arrangement of three-aspect heads, i.e. the 3 colour people, as opposed to the sequence of the heads illumination?

I love Sean nos

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

*sigh* It might not be a prosecutable offence, but I'm sure you well know what I was referring to,

I think you meant people crossing the road legally, but you messed up the spelling.

HonalD

GM228 wrote: »

There is nothing in law requiring the traffic lights to light in any particular sequence for temporary traffic lights.

How exactly do they deviate, what is in the traffic signs manual is not fully supported by legislation, the manual also only applies to lights installed after November 2010. Under the old manual there was no preferences.

Not sure why you think the first statement is correct. Traffic lights, whether permanent or temporary should follow the same rules. If there’s an exemption for temporary traffic signals, I’d love to see it.

The specification for what should occur at traffic signal junctions is set out in legislation and the Traffic Signs Manual follows this. 3 aspect pedestrian signal heads should be used at junctions. Can’t remember if Cork use a “black out” period at junctions (I.e, when both red and green man aspects are unlit) but that’s not in the legislation for junctions either.

(I’m not bashing Cork, just using an example).

HonalD

Quackster wrote: »

Most junctions in the country outside Dublin don't have amber pedestrian signals. The novelty in Cork is having a flashing green man instead of an amber man.

For standalone “pelican” push-button crossings, that’s ok as the flashing green man relates more or less to the flashing amber signal to drivers I.e. to indicate that the pedestrian phase is nearly complete.

GM228

HonalD wrote: »

Not sure why you think the first statement is correct. Traffic lights, whether permanent or temporary should follow the same rules. If there’s an exemption for temporary traffic signals, I’d love to see it.

But the point is that there is no rule for the order in which a light should illuminate.

HonalD wrote: »

The specification for what should occur at traffic signal junctions is set out in legislation and the Traffic Signs Manual follows this. 3 aspect pedestrian signal heads should be used at junctions. Can’t remember if Cork use a “black out” period at junctions (I.e, when both red and green man aspects are unlit) but that’s not in the legislation for junctions either.

Again legislation does not specify where they should be used, only the TSM does - but that's only for new installations after November 2010.

Quackster

HonalD wrote: »

For standalone “pelican” push-button crossings, that’s ok as the flashing green man relates more or less to the flashing amber signal to drivers I.e. to indicate that the pedestrian phase is nearly complete.

Again, the novelty in Cork is they use flashing green man at normal junctions instead of a blackout period, not just at pelican crossings.

lucernarian

Quackster wrote: »

Again, the novelty in Cork is they use flashing green man at normal junctions instead of a blackout period, not just at pelican crossings.

IMO the flashing green man makes sense, whatever about the regulations involved in this. There's no "turn left on red" allowed but I can see pros as well as cons for allowing it.

flaneur

Quackster wrote: »

Again, the novelty in Cork is they use flashing green man at normal junctions instead of a blackout period, not just at pelican crossings.

I hate the "black out" approach. It's very disconcerting if you're not use to it and it's commonly done in Britain. You feel like : agh! The traffic lights have just stopped working I'm going to be mowed down!!

HonalD

GM228 wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

Not sure why you think the first statement is correct. Traffic lights, whether permanent or temporary should follow the same rules. If there’s an exemption for temporary traffic signals, I’d love to see it.

But the point is that there is no rule for the order in which a light should illuminate.

HonalD wrote: »

The specification for what should occur at traffic signal junctions is set out in legislation and the Traffic Signs Manual follows this. 3 aspect pedestrian signal heads should be used at junctions. Can’t remember if Cork use a “black out” period at junctions (I.e, when both red and green man aspects are unlit) but that’s not in the legislation for junctions either.

Again legislation does not specify where they should be used, only the TSM does - but that's only for new installations after November 2010.

There is nothing in Irish legislation for the provision of a simultaneous red and amber lights I.e. the starting amber in the U.K. So it’s not allowed.

The TSM is in effect based on section 95(16) of the Road Traffic Act 1961 and is a direction from the Minister. There was an original version in 1996 I recall but cannot remember the details so your assertion that the tsm only applies post 2010 is wrong.

HonalD

flaneur wrote: »

Quackster wrote: »

Again, the novelty in Cork is they use flashing green man at normal junctions instead of a blackout period, not just at pelican crossings.

I hate the "black out" approach. It's very disconcerting if you're not use to it and it's commonly done in Britain. You feel like : agh! The traffic lights have just stopped working I'm going to be mowed down!!

It’s one of the main reasons the U.K. introduced nearside pedestrian displays (Puffin crossings). Personally I believe that they create other confusions.

HonalD

lucernarian wrote: »

IMO the flashing green man makes sense, whatever about the regulations involved in this.

Why does it make sense if there’s no corresponding flashing signal to traffic?