Landlady turning sitting room into bedroom

ted1

Contact the planning office for the local council. It’ll breach planning permission

jsd1004

Micah Substantial Reggae wrote: »

I've seen room only renters out on their ear in less than 18 mins so I wouldn't be so confident

Room only renter in a shared occupancy that does not have exclusive access to the property or shared areas is a very grey area. If the owner retains access to the property they are free to do what ever they like in the shared areas within the law. From a lot of research i have done including consulting with the RTB a licencee has very limited rights (if any) if they do not have exclusive access to the whole of the property and a signed tenancy ie (Part 4) in force.

4ensic15

jsd1004 wrote: »

Room only renter in a shared occupancy that does not have exclusive access to the property or shared areas is a very grey area. If the owner retains access to the property they are free to do what ever they like in the shared areas within the law. From a lot of research i have done including consulting with the RTB a licencee has very limited rights (if any) if they do not have exclusive access to the whole of the property and a signed tenancy ie (Part 4) in force.

Th RTB have consistently take the side of the tenants in a case like tgis. They will not infer a series of separate licences. The o/p can open a dispute with the RTB. He has Part 4 protection which he can trace back to the first tenants if need be. If the landlady wants to claim there are 4 sepaprate dwellings she will need to provide each with a cooker, mircowave etc.

twowheelsonly

Speak to the other tenants and see if any of them still have a copy or screenshot of the original ad. They've only been there a couple of months so might well have it. I'd imagine that you don't.
If the ad they responded to mentions shared living spaces she's absolutely at nothing. Even at that, you're not paying for, and neither did you agree to, a bedsit. That's a whole new ball game to a "Spacious room in a 4 bedroom house...."

James 007

jsd1004 wrote: »

Room only renter in a shared occupancy that does not have exclusive access to the property or shared areas is a very grey area. If the owner retains access to the property they are free to do what ever they like in the shared areas within the law. From a lot of research i have done including consulting with the RTB a licencee has very limited rights (if any) if they do not have exclusive access to the whole of the property and a signed tenancy ie (Part 4) in force.

This is not the case. Up to the point of the landlady putting a bed into the sitting room the 4 tenants living in the accommodation had exclusive rights to the kitchen and sitting room. The owner in this case does not retain access to the property, this is our understanding of the situation. As the previous poster has pointed to, the landlady is trying to change their accommodation arrangement from a shared house situation to a bedsit time arrangement.

A few years ago I lived with a girl who had the double room downstairs (the original sitting room) and she decided to have her 'boyfriend' move in. There was no consulting the rest of the tenants. When I put it to the landlord, that I moved into a house with 4 max. and look for a reduction in rent, he said 'sure you rent has nothing got to do hers and vice versa'. It turned out he was from Newcastle, no job, heating on all day and to this day I still think they were not boyfriend or girlfriend. One of the other tenants decided I am going to screw him back, starved him of rent for close to 6 weeks and all the bills, left old clothes from the hot press lying around his room to make it look like he was living there. Of course I new this, but didn't say a word until the landlord finally opened his bedroom door. Well the 30min taped conversation that I still have of him talking to me, phoning the other tenant, me explaining that I just received a text from the other tenant wishing me well and I wont be returning etc. still gives me a good barrel of laughs today. Cork wanker. Needless to say I left a month later. Playing that conversation back does make me smile.

jsd1004

James 007 wrote: »

This is not the case. Up to the point of the landlady putting a bed into the sitting room the 4 tenants living in the accommodation had exclusive rights to the kitchen and sitting room. The owner in this case does not retain access to the property, this is our understanding of the situation. As the previous poster has pointed to, the landlady is trying to change their accommodation arrangement from a shared house situation to a bedsit time arrangement.

A few years ago I lived with a girl who had the double room downstairs (the original sitting room) and she decided to have her 'boyfriend' move in. There was no consulting the rest of the tenants. When I put it to the landlord, that I moved into a house with 4 max. and look for a reduction in rent, he said 'sure you rent has nothing got to do hers and vice versa'. It turned out he was from Newcastle, no job, heating on all day and to this day I still think they were not boyfriend or girlfriend. One of the other tenants decided I am going to screw him back, starved him of rent for close to 6 weeks and all the bills, left old clothes from the hot press lying around his room to make it look like he was living there. Of course I new this, but didn't say a word until the landlord finally opened his bedroom door. Well the 30min taped conversation that I still have of him talking to me, phoning the other tenant, me explaining that I just received a text from the other tenant wishing me well and I wont be returning etc. still gives me a good barrel of laughs today. Cork wanker. Needless to say I left a month later. Playing that conversation back does make me smile.

The agreement between the licensee and licensor is exclusive to any agreement made with other parties . The licence is to rent a room in shared accommodation without exclusive access. The non exclusive access is the important bit as it is difficult to form/define a tenancy if there is no exclusive access.

davindub

jsd1004 wrote: »

James 007 wrote: »

This is not the case. Up to the point of the landlady putting a bed into the sitting room the 4 tenants living in the accommodation had exclusive rights to the kitchen and sitting room. The owner in this case does not retain access to the property, this is our understanding of the situation. As the previous poster has pointed to, the landlady is trying to change their accommodation arrangement from a shared house situation to a bedsit time arrangement.

A few years ago I lived with a girl who had the double room downstairs (the original sitting room) and she decided to have her 'boyfriend' move in. There was no consulting the rest of the tenants. When I put it to the landlord, that I moved into a house with 4 max. and look for a reduction in rent, he said 'sure you rent has nothing got to do hers and vice versa'. It turned out he was from Newcastle, no job, heating on all day and to this day I still think they were not boyfriend or girlfriend. One of the other tenants decided I am going to screw him back, starved him of rent for close to 6 weeks and all the bills, left old clothes from the hot press lying around his room to make it look like he was living there. Of course I new this, but didn't say a word until the landlord finally opened his bedroom door. Well the 30min taped conversation that I still have of him talking to me, phoning the other tenant, me explaining that I just received a text from the other tenant wishing me well and I wont be returning etc. still gives me a good barrel of laughs today. Cork wanker. Needless to say I left a month later. Playing that conversation back does make me smile.

The agreement between the licensee and licensor is exclusive to any agreement made with other parties . The licence is to rent a room in shared accommodation without exclusive access. The non exclusive access is the important bit as it is difficult to form/define a tenancy if there is no exclusive access.

A tenancy arises from payment of rent or lease. Exclusive access has been discussed before as limited to the tenants and the landlord and can be only a bedroom.

But also the tenancy and lease will also assume terms not expressly written into the lease. So if when the tenant moved in there is a shared sitting room it would be a breach to withdraw this access. Same goes for parking, etc.

Fian

Tombomb7 wrote: »

Hi all,

Hope you can help four working professionals working in Dublin. We're currently living in a 4 bed house with a small kitchen and decent sized sitting room. Paying 600 each a month plus bills in the City Centre.

The landlady has decided to turn the sitting room into a bedroom leaving only the cramped kitchen as a living space. She's bought a second microwave (not sure what her plan for it is) and has put three fridges into the three big bed rooms (my box room is too small), presumably to make up for the upcoming lack of fridge space.

We are all unhappy about it and she's just put a single bed into the sitting room. She's registered for a four bedroom house with the tenancy board.

Is there anything we can do about this? My thoughts are that we can't do a thing, she holds all the cards and gets to make the rules of the game.

Any response would be much appreciated!

You are in a RPZ. This is the unfortunate side effect of rent controls. Landlady cannot up the rent she is charging you to market rates. She believes that for the price she is charging she would be able to get tenants willing to do without a sitting room in the current market. So she is working around the legislation by adding another bedroom to increase her income even at the cost of
dropping the standard of the place.

If there were not artificial rent controls you would instead probably have faced a rent increase - so perhaps from your point of view this is preferable. It is not great for the overall market though, to have perverse incentives like this. and you have my sympathies - sounds like an unpleasant scenario.

If you are renting the whole house as joint tenants you may have recourse via the RTB. Be aware that if you go down that route it might prompt a notice of eviction on the basis of substantial renovations - with the renovations consisting of remodeling the premesis to add an additional bedroom. Though if you had made a complaint with the RTB they might be unlikely to take such a notice at face value. Just something to consider though.

Are you paying significantly below market rent - when was the last time your rent was raised prior to the RPZ controls coming in?

jsd1004

davindub wrote: »

A tenancy arises from payment of rent or lease. Exclusive access has been discussed before as limited to the tenants and the landlord and can be only a bedroom.

But also the tenancy and lease will also assume terms not expressly written into the lease. So if when the tenant moved in there is a shared sitting room it would be a breach to withdraw this access. Same goes for parking, etc.

Ok then

jsd1004

davindub wrote: »

A tenancy arises from payment of rent or lease. Exclusive access has been discussed before as limited to the tenants and the landlord and can be only a bedroom.

But also the tenancy and lease will also assume terms not expressly written into the lease. So if when the tenant moved in there is a shared sitting room it would be a breach to withdraw this access. Same goes for parking, etc.

Ok. Go to Court and get it in law.

OwlsZat

Tombomb7;104980507Hi all,
You are in a RPZ. This is the unfortunate side effect of rent controls. Landlady cannot up the rent she is charging you to market rates. She believes that for the price she is charging she would be able to get tenants willing to do without a sitting room in the current market. So she is working around the legislation by adding another bedroom to increase her income even at the cost of dropping the standard of the place.

My girlfriends rented accommodation was let out as three bedrooms (1 owner/occupier & 1 sitting room having been converted). The 3rd person since moved out. What does the landlady do? She keeps the sitting room locked and uses it to herself.

It's not surprising so see someone so self centered. It's just a shame that our legislation doesn't have any protection for this sort of stuff.

James 007

OwlsZat wrote: »

My girlfriends rented accommodation was let out as three bedrooms (1 owner/occupier & 1 sitting room having been converted). The 3rd person since moved out. What does the landlady do? She keeps the sitting room locked and uses it to herself.

It's not surprising so see someone so self centered. It's just a shame that our legislation doesn't have any protection for this sort of stuff.

If it was originally a converted bedroom before your girlfriend moved in then its fine. My issue is when a landlord changes the setup after a tenant moves into a place, which seems to be happening to the OP.

In your case the owner has a right to lock the sitting room in case she ever wants to convert it back to a bedroom. She could come to an arrangement with your girlfriend that she could use it provided there is an understanding that it could be converted back to a bedroom in the future. However she has made a choice to have the room as her private space which I can understand too. She values her private space over renting the room to a 3rd person in the house.

I think your girlfriend has to understand that she never had this space in the first place, so why make it an issue now. In fact there are less tenants in the house now which should be an added advantage to your girlfriend. Also with the landlord in the sitting room, it would mean less time in the other communial areas which would mean your girlfriend would see less of her too.

OwlsZat

She isn't making an issue out of it. Just made me relate to the OP. The whole housing situation and the ever growing rich poor divide is a serious race to the bottom.

Aye Bosun

OwlsZat wrote: »

She isn't making an issue out of it. Just made me relate to the OP. The whole housing situation and the ever growing rich poor divide is a serious race to the bottom.

It's two very different situations, the OP is a tenant, your girlfriend is a licensee as she lives with owner occupier. She rents a room in the landlords own home, the landlord can do what she like with the sitting room, your girlfriend has no rights at all. The OP on the other hand does!