Should dipped headlights be mandatory 24/7/365?

Gerrup Outta Dat!

The amount of time I've seen people driving at dusk with parking lights is phenomenal. Dipped headlights don't just help you to see, they help you BE SEEN too.

On a misty / rainy day you are 100 times more visible on the road displaying dipped lights compared to none at all. There's no reason not to have them.

I've often been driving down the motorway just after nightfall and seen cars with NO LIGHTS at all! These fools obviously started off with no lights and didn't realise it gradually getting darker and darker and blissfully drove along with no lights.

Don't get me started on poxy DRLs. They only illuminate the front of the car.

Headlights need to be mandatory at all times (with penalty points for non-compliance). Another area that should be legislated for (possibly by the EU) is that headlight bulbs should have to be universal on all cars manufactured after a certain date with bulbs that can be changed in the same time it would to change a bulb at home.

CJhaughey

I see a big problem in that many car dashes are illuminated once you turn the key, these people are blindly driving around unaware that they are showing no lights at all.

OldMrBrennan83

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TheRiverman

Dipped headlights should be mandatory at all times,but something else that needs to be addressed is the number of idiot drivers who have fog lights on front and back when (as Jeremy Clarkson famously said some years ago) " the only bit of fog visible is the bit between their ears ".

mags1962

Auto Lights solve this, DRL's can be seen at the front all the time but the back lights come on in dark conditions, grey and raining are enough for mine.
They even come on when driving into an underground car park or tunnel.

kilianmanning

Probably should be, they are needed in Ireland 90% of the time.
Only time they aren't needed is on a sunny clear day & only time I wouldn't turn them on.

martingriff

The auto light in cars are great as they are always on the may problem with them is you forget to turn on to full lights when you need them especially in lit up areas I have done it once and now always make sure

kerten

I have auto lights but no DRLs in my car and I tend to manually turn on the dipped beams when I notice they are not on. I think turning on dipped beams are wise decision to be visible especially on boring motorway commutes where most of the drivers act like half asleep

micks_address

mags1962 wrote: »

Auto Lights solve this, DRL's can be seen at the front all the time but the back lights come on in dark conditions, grey and raining are enough for mine.
They even come on when driving into an underground car park or tunnel.

Yep auto lights are excellent. The bigger problem for me is amount of cars on road with blown bulb's

elperello

micks_address wrote: »

Yep auto lights are excellent. The bigger problem for me is amount of cars on road with blown bulb's

Yes and the OP put his finger on at least part of the reason for this -

"Another area that should be legislated for (possibly by the EU) is that headlight bulbs should have to be universal on all cars manufactured after a certain date with bulbs that can be changed in the same time it would to change a bulb at home."

A lot of cars have the access to the bulb completely blocked requiring specialist tools or even removal of bumpers to get at them. It's a difficult job in a dry well lit garage but impossible on the side of the road.

K.Flyer

I have always been an advocate of driving on dipped lights during the day irrespective of weather conditions, but the amount of drivers at night time using DRLs and the back lights are off is now getting to stupid levels.
So many driving along oblivious to cars behind who are flashing and honking at them.
Great idea, poorly executed.

CiniO

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

The amount of time I've seen people driving at dusk with parking lights is phenomenal. Dipped headlights don't just help you to see, they help you BE SEEN too.

On a misty / rainy day you are 100 times more visible on the road displaying dipped lights compared to none at all. There's no reason not to have them.

I've often been driving down the motorway just after nightfall and seen cars with NO LIGHTS at all! These fools obviously started off with no lights and didn't realise it gradually getting darker and darker and blissfully drove along with no lights.

Don't get me started on poxy DRLs. They only illuminate the front of the car.

Headlights need to be mandatory at all times (with penalty points for non-compliance). Another area that should be legislated for (possibly by the EU) is that headlight bulbs should have to be universal on all cars manufactured after a certain date with bulbs that can be changed in the same time it would to change a bulb at home.

I'd be definitely against dipped lights 24/7.

If they want to introduce lights 24/7 then why not, but DRLs are perfectly fine for daytime in good weather. No need for dipped headlights.

Dipped headlights should be only mandatory at night, and during the day at rain, fog or snow.


What we need badly though is enforcement.
How many people in Ireland got fined for inappropriate usage of lights in the last year?


Besides - currently dipped headlights are not always mandatory during darkness.
There are traffic rules which allow to use only side lights in the middle of the night, provided adequate city lighting is provided.
IMO that's pure nonsense, but that's what it is.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

CiniO wrote: »

I'd be definitely against dipped lights 24/7.

Why? There's no reason not to have them on.

CiniO wrote: »

How many people in Ireland got fined for inappropriate usage of lights in the last year?

It's not even on the list of penalty points as far as I'm aware.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Why? There's no reason not to have them on.

Huge waste of energy having all vehicles standing in the traffic jam on sunny day with dipped lights on would be one for me.
Another reason is that if you use them all the time, eventually reflective material will outwear and your dipped lights brightness will be hugely affected.
Then at night you won't be getting enough light when you really need that.
Pretty much all cars that were using dipped light 24/7 for 10 years or so, would be affected by it, and have very poor dipped lights due to worn reflective material.

Cee-Jay-Cee

martingriff wrote: »

The auto light in cars are great as they are always on the may problem with them is you forget to turn on to full lights when you need them especially in lit up areas I have done it once and now always make sure

If you need to turn on full lights then they are not auto lights. I have auto lights which come on in low light and go off when it brightens. I don’t need to do anything else.

CiniO

Patww79 wrote: »

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There's no need for rear tail lights at daytime in good weather. I can't think of any possible scenario where they would make me see a car better in such conditions.

And yes - not all cars have DRL, so those which don't would need to use dipped lights. But forcing people to use dipped lights at daytime, when they have DRLs fitted to their car is nonsense.

hognef

CiniO wrote: »

There's no need for rear tail lights at daytime in good weather. I can't think of any possible scenario where they would make me see a car better in such conditions.

And yes - not all cars have DRL, so those which don't would need to use dipped lights. But forcing people to use dipped lights at daytime, when they have DRLs fitted to their car is nonsense.

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that one reason for not having rear lights come on with DRLs is that they can actually be mistaken for breaklights.

That said, I'm 100% in favour of some sort of permanent front light.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

Huge waste of energy having all vehicles standing in the traffic jam on sunny day with dipped lights on would be one for me.
Another reason is that if you use them all the time, eventually reflective material will outwear and your dipped lights brightness will be hugely affected.
Then at night you won't be getting enough light when you really need that.
Pretty much all cars that were using dipped light 24/7 for 10 years or so, would be affected by it, and have very poor dipped lights due to worn reflective material.

Absolute rubbish of the highest degree.

Lights do not wear out nor does the reflective material in lights, where did you dream up such nonsense? So long as you keep the outer lens clean and free from scum build up then your lights will be as effective as they were the day they were new. Light does not degrade chrome reflective plating in light housing.

Huge waste of energy? Are you suggesting that by everyone keeping their lights off that energy is somehow being conserved???

I have my lights on all the time day and night through all seasons. I had my last car for 5 years and the car was 10 years old when I sold it and the lights were as effective as they were when the car was new. I only ever replaced the bulbs once in that time and I kept the outer lens clean and polished. There was zero degradation of the reflective inners and I’d be willing to guess if the lights were looked after like I did they’d last another 30 years.

CiniO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Absolute rubbish of the highest degree.

Lights do not wear out nor does the reflective material in lights, where did you dream up such nonsense? So long as you keep the outer lens clean and free from scum build up then your lights will be as effective as they were the day they were new. Light does not degrade chrome reflective plating in light housing.

I don't know where you get your information from, but I'm sure of what I'm saying.
It's a pretty well known fact in all countries that require 24/7 dipped lights.
Also I noticed that in my own experience.

Huge waste of energy? Are you suggesting that by everyone keeping their lights off that energy is somehow being conserved???

On a large scale - yes - huge waste of energy.
If you turn on your dipped lights, which always also include rear tail lights, front side lights, number plate lights (marker lights on higher vehielces), dashboard illumination, etc, you are talking over 200W of power.
Multiply it by amount of vehicles in use in the whole country, you are talking about extra thousdans of MegaWatts of power wasted.
To compare good DRL use probably only 10-15% of that.

I have my lights on all the time day and night through all seasons. I had my last car for 5 years and the car was 10 years old when I sold it and the lights were as effective as they were when the car was new. I only ever replaced the bulbs once in that time and I kept the outer lens clean and polished. There was zero degradation of the reflective inners and I’d be willing to guess if the lights were looked after like I did they’d last another 30 years.

So you stated that you only used that car 5 years.
5 years is too short for noticable degradation.
10 years is enough.
after 15 years, lights are pretty much useless.

And BTW - I also use my dipped lights 24/7 - but that's only because my cars don't have DRLs.

H.E. Pennypacker

kilianmanning wrote: »

Probably should be, they are needed in Ireland 90% of the time.
Only time they aren't needed is on a sunny clear day & only time I wouldn't turn them on.

Oddly enough, a clear sunny day is one of the scenarios where dipped headlights can improve visibility.

martingriff

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

If you need to turn on full lights then they are not auto lights. I have auto lights which come on in low light and go off when it brightens. I don’t need to do anything else.

Sorry added a word there I meant turn on auto lights. I have auto spot lights that are always on. I also have an autolight feature in my car but I rarely use it as I had it drilled in to me when I started to have light off when starting due to a bulb blowing which II know does not happen

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

So you stated that you only used that car 5 years.
5 years is too short for noticable degradation.
10 years is enough.
after 15 years, lights are pretty much useless.

And BTW - I also used my dipped lights 24/7 - but that's only because my cars don't have DRLs.

I also have a 1994 car which has 193k miles on it. Original headlights and they are perfect, no degradation of the inner reflective material and they lights are very effective and bright. So that’s 23 years and still going strong.

How many cars on the road today will still be on the road in 20 years time? Probably less than 10% and those cars will generally be owned by people who look after their cars. With the way insurance companies are operating here there will probably be even less than 10% of car older than 15 years old.

Headlights do not and will not wear out in modern cars and your argument is really taking the extreme to the limit.

Isambard

i'd be against it being mandatory as I don't fancy another excuse to give me a fine if I haven't got them on a bright clear morning.

I always put them on at the slightest excuse short of it being broad daylight.

Rather than mandatory, cars should be built with them automatically coming on, thus removing the onus form the driver to the manufacturer ,it's going that way slowly anyway and I don't think there's any need for the legislation proposed here

CiniO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I also have a 1994 car which has 193k miles on it. Original headlights and they are perfect, no degradation of the inner reflective material and they lights are very effective and bright. So that’s 23 years and still going strong.

And was this car really used for whole 23 years and 193 miles with dipped headlights on at all times.
I strongly doubt it.

I have first hand experience with car that were really used with dipped headlights on at all times.

How many cars on the road today will still be on the road in 20 years time? Probably less than 10% and those cars will generally be owned by people who look after their cars. With the way insurance companies are operating here there will probably be even less than 10% of car older than 15 years old.

Headlights do not and will not wear out in modern cars and your argument is really taking the extreme to the limit.

Say what you want.
I know what I'm saying.
Dipped headlights were never designed to be used 24/7. And after 10 year of everyday use, they are just starting to be worn out. It's a fact.

Voodoomelon

The DRL drivers with illuminated dashes forgetting to turn on their lights is one thing (and it seriously annoys me), but the people who should have their licenses ripped up are the ones in older cars at well beyond dusk with no lights on at all.

How they don't realise they have no lights on is beyond me and absolutely should not be on the road. Total twats.

McCrack

kilianmanning wrote: »

Probably should be, they are needed in Ireland 90% of the time.
Only time they aren't needed is on a sunny clear day & only time I wouldn't turn them on.

Dipped lights are particularly needed on sunny days...to be seen especially in times of glare

ted1

elperello wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

Yep auto lights are excellent. The bigger problem for me is amount of cars on road with blown bulb's

Yes and the OP put his finger on at least part of the reason for this -

"Another area that should be legislated for (possibly by the EU) is that headlight bulbs should have to be universal on all cars manufactured after a certain date with bulbs that can be changed in the same time it would to change a bulb at home."

A lot of cars have the access to the bulb completely blocked requiring specialist tools or even removal of bumpers to get at them. It's a difficult job in a dry well lit garage but impossible on the side of the road.

Or just LED lights which should never have to be replaced

kirving

Absolutely no reason not to use your headlights 100% of the time.

My commute often means direct sun behind me in the morning and evening. In this case auto lights that work off a light sensor alone would be off, as they are in summer showers, fog, dusk and a whole range of scenarios where they're needed.

In the 4 years of having the car it's probably cost me more than a negligible amount of money on fuel and bulbs, but that it absolutely worth it if even just once, a car didn't pull out in front of me because they saw my lights. But I'll never know that.

Isambard

Voodoomelon wrote: »

The DRL drivers with illuminated dashes forgetting to turn on their lights is one thing (and it seriously annoys me), but the people who should have their licenses ripped up are the ones in older cars at well beyond dusk with no lights on at all.

How they don't realise they have no lights on is beyond me and absolutely should not be on the road. Total twats.

they believe it wears out the reflective material and wastes power.

CiniO

Isambard wrote: »

they believe it wears out the reflective material and wastes power.

Because it does.
That's why there's no point using headlights at daytime in good weather if you have DRLs.
If you don't, then it's worth it.

micks_address

As a start why not just force all new cars to have auto lights.. automatically fix the problem over time

CiniO

micks_address wrote: »

As a start why not just force all new cars to have auto lights.. automatically fix the problem over time

Most auto lights are far from being good.
Often they are set to come on too late (f.e. coming on when it gets really dark, while should come on much ealier) - that should be easy to adjust, also very often they don't turn on due to rain, while they should and it's easy to implement. And I'm yet to see auto lights that turn on on fog or snow, and in those conditions having dipped lights on is absolutely crucial.

So in short, person can't fully rely on auto lights...

Isambard

CiniO wrote: »

Because it does.
That's why there's no point using headlights at daytime in good weather if you have DRLs.
If you don't, then it's worth it.

I sincerely doubt the reflective material claim and as for the waste of power, it's not quantifiable, it's essentially a waste product from an engine running. (in my opinion)

aujopimur

More unenforced laws, having 2 working headlights is mandatory, but it's not enforced.

DaveyDave

DRLs are one of the best and worst additions to recent motoring. It helps people be seen on dull overcast days especially from a cyclists perspective but at the same time there's so many idiots out there driving without their lights on because of it. They'd be the type to drive without lights full stop though, they're too thick to get it. Flash and wave all you want, they just don't get it. How do you not notice in the pitch black Winter that you can't ****ing see down the road??? Why would you then proceed to drive when you can't see?

It also doesn't help some cars headlights aren't set up correctly from the factory, the i30 is known for not illuminating far enough.

I was out running the other night and 4 cars flashed someone who didn't have lights on, they didn't have a clue whatsoever and this was an old Polo or something so no DRLs or anything.

They need to enforce driving without lights with an iron fist. It's a serious hazard. If you can't remember to turn on your lights to see where you're going, good luck remembering what to do leading up to a crash. The problem I have with this is these people are entrusted with our safety and they should promptly be removed from the roads. Maybe a safety awareness course or something or some sort of mandatory class?

gammygils

Nothing more annoying than driving on a busy road in rain or misty conditions. And to meet some cünt with no lights whatsoever
This is a very common occurrence
This is stupid! This is dangerous!
This is just wrong!

CiniO

DaveyDave wrote: »

DRLs are one of the best and worst additions to recent motoring. It helps people be seen on dull overcast days especially from a cyclists perspective but at the same time there's so many idiots out there driving without their lights on because of it. They'd be the type to drive without lights full stop though, they're too thick to get it. Flash and wave all you want, they just don't get it. How do you not notice in the pitch black Winter that you can't ****ing see down the road??? Why would you then proceed to drive when you can't see?

It also doesn't help some cars headlights aren't set up correctly from the factory, the i30 is known for not illuminating far enough.

I was out running the other night and 4 cars flashed someone who didn't have lights on, they didn't have a clue whatsoever and this was an old Polo or something so no DRLs or anything.

They need to enforce driving without lights with an iron fist. It's a serious hazard. If you can't remember to turn on your lights to see where you're going, good luck remembering what to do leading up to a crash. The problem I have with this is these people are entrusted with our safety and they should promptly be removed from the roads. Maybe a safety awareness course or something or some sort of mandatory class?

All down to lack of driver education (I think plenty of drivers are not aware that they should be driving with lights on), and also down to lack of enforcement.

In Poland you have to use lights 24/7.
At daytime in good weather this can be dipped headlights or DRLs.
During rain, fog, snow or at night this must be dipped headlights.

If you are caught without lights at daytime it's 100zl fine a 2 penalty points, and 200zl and 4 penalty pointns if caught without lights at night. (100zl fine would be similar effect as €100 fine in Ireland and points limit is 24 per year)

I'd say chances of being caught are very high, so I reckon someone not using lights at daytime driving 50km a day, would be probably caught and fined at least once a week.
Not something most people could afford, so even though who tend to forget to turn them on, learn quickly.

In Ireland, you could drive for 10 years without lights day and night, and you'd be never fined for it.

I love Sean nos

kilianmanning wrote: »

Probably should be, they are needed in Ireland 90% of the time.

Really? Where do you live?

I happily drive around during daylight hours with the lights off as there's no need for them to be on. If visibility is reduced due to inclement weather, then they go on.

If someone can't see me driving a bright red car in the daytime, I'm not sure what difference me putting the lights on is going to make.

Caliden

I actually find that when other cars have their lights on it's much easier see them when the sun is low in the sky.

Especially going northbound m50 when the sun is in your rear view mirror it can be quite dazzling and hard to make out cars in the mirror.
It's much easier spot them if they have their lights on.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

Say what you want.
I know what I'm saying.
Dipped headlights were never designed to be used 24/7. And after 10 year of everyday use, they are just starting to be worn out. It's a fact.

I think you’ll find that ALL headlight manufacturers and car manufacturers will disagree strongly with you.

You may know what your saying but that doesn’t mean you are correct.

And in respect of my 23yr old car. I’ve owned it since 2000 and in my 17 years of ownership, I have covered 150k of those miles all with the low beams on. I T-cut the outer lens every so often and I’ve fitted new bulbs on 2 or 3 occasions and they are still clear and bright so maybe you don’t look after your cars headlights and it’s actually your own fault you experience degrading or poor headlights.

grogi

What we are missing is enforcement really.

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Don't get me started on poxy DRLs. They only illuminate the front of the car.

Headlights need to be mandatory at all times (with penalty points for non-compliance).

Headlights should be mandatory during rainfall or snowfall, fog or dark and all the time when DRL are not present.

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Another area that should be legislated for (possibly by the EU) is that headlight bulbs should have to be universal on all cars manufactured after a certain date with bulbs that can be changed in the same time it would to change a bulb at home.

As far as I know that is currently the case... The times of removing the bumper to replace dipped bulb seem to be gone me thinks.

grogi

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I think you’ll find that ALL headlight manufacturers and car manufacturers will disagree strongly with you.

You may know what your saying but that doesn’t mean you are correct.

And in respect of my 23yr old car. I’ve owned it since 2000 and in my 17 years of ownership, I have covered 150k of those miles all with the low beams on. I T-cut the outer lens every so often and I’ve fitted new bulbs on 2 or 3 occasions and they are still clear and bright so maybe you don’t look after your cars headlights and it’s actually your own fault you experience degrading or poor headlights.

They do wear out. Heat degrades the reflector surfaces.

McCrack

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Really? Where do you live?

I happily drive around during daylight hours with the lights off as there's no need for them to be on. If visibility is reduced due to inclement weather, then they go on.

If someone can't see me driving a bright red car in the daytime, I'm not sure what difference me putting the lights on is going to make.

As a matter of safety they should be on all the time - during the day and particularly when its sunny as glare/morning/evening sun can be so strong it can blind drivers and dipped lights on assist such drivers seeing you.

grogi

McCrack wrote: »

As a matter of safety they should be on all the time - during the day and particularly when its sunny as glare/morning/evening sun can be so strong it can blind drivers and dipped lights on assist such drivers seeing you.

DRLs are much better suited to do that and I am glad that all new cars come with them.

The light beam in DRLs is uniformly send in all directions, while dipped lights are designed not to send light towards other motorists.

lawred2

kilianmanning wrote: »

Probably should be, they are needed in Ireland 90% of the time.
Only time they aren't needed is on a sunny clear day & only time I wouldn't turn them on.

?

If the sun is behind you - then oncoming traffic having to deal with the glare of the sun will hugely benefit from you having your lights on.

lawred2

Far too many people think lights are only to help them see and have no role to play whatsoever in helping other motorists...

My mother in law is a fine example of that mindset.

gonko

Not to mention the Korean scrap brands that began the DRL's but leave the rear tail lights off.
AND, with everyone having DRL's on the front, it makes it harder to spot motorcyclists, especially those filtering between cars. I only use my lights when dusk/darkness. No need for daytime use unless your blind.

grogi

gonko wrote: »

Not to mention the Korean scrap brands that began the DRL's but leave the rear tail lights off.
AND, with everyone having DRL's on the front, it makes it harder to spot motorcyclists, especially those filtering between cars.

Last time I've checked they did have lights as well.

I only use my lights when dusk/darkness. No need for daytime use unless your blind.

You are a master driver. But the hundreds of thousands idiots who never switch the lights on aren't.

lawred2 wrote: »

Far too many people think lights are only to help them see and have no role to play whatsoever in helping other motorists...

My mother in law is a fine example of that mindset.

It never stops to surprise me how egocentric majority of the drivers are... Don't they notice how the other cars are more visible with lights on?!

gonko

grogi wrote: »

Last time I've checked they did have lights as well.



You are a master driver. But the hundreds of thousands idiots who never switch the lights on aren't.

Oh we have a smart Ar$e on our hands. So with every person driving around with DRL's, does it make it more difficult to spot a bike with lights on. Yes it does.

I've noticed it myself while driving. If every clown has a DRL on, then spotting the poor soul on a motorbike can easily be mistaken in the sea of lights (particularly on motorways).

Any good driver ought to know this, really.

Doltanian

What should be mandatory is a set piece of regulation with limits lights to set output of lumens, some of the new cars have ridiculously bright lights and I've lost count of how many times I've been temporarily blinded and dazzled by then, and that before you get the absolute scumbag morons who use their fog lights 24/7.