Paul Kimmage on Claire Byrne Live Monday 16th

Doc07

Paul Kimmage will be on tomorrow night discussing issues in Irish sport, from cheating and ethical issues to the hypocrisy in Irish sport to his own experience in cycling.
Email clairebyrnelive@rte.ie if you want to be in the audience.

longshanks

His usual cheerful self then?

godtabh

Getting bored of One-Trick-Paul

LeinsterDub

Doc07 wrote: »

Paul Kimmage will be on tomorrow night discussing issues in Irish sport, from cheating and ethical issues to the hypocrisy in Irish sport to his own experience in cycling.
Email clairebyrnelive@rte.ie if you want to be in the audience.

Discussing or constantly shouting?

Beasty

Probably silenced, given the forecast of widespread power outages....

Doc07

Beasty wrote: »

Probably silenced, given the forecast of widespread power outages....

I won't be surprised if I get an email soon telling people not to attend. They'll probably use the Claire Byrne time slot now for hurricane related issues.

Beasty

Orphelia will probably generate more than enough hot air for us....

godtabh

Doc07 wrote: »

I won't be surprised if I get an email soon telling people not to attend. They'll probably use the Claire Byrne time slot now for hurricane related issues.

Paul could be still on about all those who cheated to get KOM's tomorrow

Etc

He's already stated he believes Ophelia had been using performance enhancing supplements given the suspicious rapid increase in power from Orange to red in such a short space of time.

rushfan

Used to really enjoy listening to him but lately, all he seems to do is shout people down. Let's see if he can outdo Ophelia

mikeysmith

longshanks wrote: »

His usual cheerful self then?

Unlikely

I'll be giving him a miss after his recent sour warblings on the dub manager

bazermc

I wonder will he question Claire on how she is looking so well after just having a baby

nialljf

bazermc wrote: »

I wonder will he question Claire on how she is looking so well after just having a baby

Sexist chat

All My Stars Aligned

It's sad really but I feel the years of the LA fight has taken it's toll on him and turned him into an angry and quite paranoid man. I watched him on the Luke Fitzgerald podcast he comes across as quite unhinged these days.

eoghan84

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

It's sad really but I feel the years of the LA fight has taken it's toll on him and turned him into an angry and quite paranoid man. I watched him on the Luke Fitzgerald podcast he comes across as quite unhinged these days.

I thought he was fairly bitter in the Rough Ride book... I presumed he was always on a downer? ...if Id have been national Irish champ ahead of Paddy Flanagan Id be delighted...

velo.2010

How much airtime will he get?

There was a not completely unrelated topic on the growing social use of steroids a week or two ago. That barely got five minutes on air and was treated with little importance, but is becoming a problem among young men and women.

death1234567

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

It's sad really but I feel the years of the LA fight has taken it's toll on him and turned him into an angry and quite paranoid man. I watched him on the Luke Fitzgerald podcast he comes across as quite unhinged these days.

Nope he was always like that. He's still the same person he always was.

mikeysmith

He'd probably have been happier with the EPO and a better career

Joking.

greenspurs

Did anyone see it?

Ophelia did a job on the wires, so had no power !

elperello

A thread about PK on CBS 18 posts before it was on and one guy who missed it.
Is this a record?

Incidentally rte player is your friend.

Nekarsulm

Only saw the part where Claire questioned him about Tom Humpries. He said that TH " made a mistake" but was a great sports writer.
He then made more effort to distance himself from TH, saying that TH had destroyed several lives, the girl he groomed and abused, his families and his own.
Said that he had went round to see TH afte the news broke but felt that he TH,wasn't telling him the full story.

CatFromHue

I watched it and I've no idea why he was on, unless he was there to talk about TH and DW. Claire asked him a few questions, he answered them, and that was really it.

I don't have much time for that show anymore and that bit last night just reinforced why.

elperello

CatFromHue wrote: »

I watched it and I've no idea why he was on, unless he was there to talk about TH and DW. Claire asked him a few questions, he answered them, and that was really it.

I don't have much time for that show anymore and that bit last night just reinforced why.

+1
CB needs to sit down with the production team.
The show has lost it's way.

I turned it off when Brenda Power was on a few weeks back telling the viewers that people with tattoos hated their skin etc.

Some outright terrible guests and discussion on it nowadays, don't remember it being at all bad last year ??? Certainly not bad enough to make me switch it off altogether.

Sonny678

I think the criticism of Kimmage is telling.
I think Kimmage is a very good sports writer. Compared to the usual sporting reporting we hear eg the score is 1 nil and the best team won. His articles are interesting and thought provoking. Something you rarely can say about sport writing.

What he said about Lance Armstrong was proved correct. It was a very brave thing to do . Seen how powerful and influential Armstrong was. He took him and world cycling on. And was proved right. That's what I call been a very good journalist. It's not like he was wrong about the problems in cycling . He was right.

Rugby well again , it's not like cycling where everything has come out. But if you look at the changes in players physique today and 20 years ago . It's scary. Rugby 20 years ago was a wonderful skilful game where player ducked and weaved on the field. Players had a normal physique. Now it can be exciting game. But players bulked up to unreal levels are charging into each other. The impact down the line of this sort of game on current players future health is a massive question. Painkillers and other issues in rugby are an issue that need to be talked about. To blame Kimmage for talking about issues like above make no sense.

Regards the Dubs . The Dublin current team are the most lauded and celebrated team I have seen in GAA land. Across the media there is little criticism. Compared to what Meath footballers, Clare Hurlers ,Tyrone footballers ,Donegal footballers and Waterford hurling sweeper system have all received in GAA land. Kimmage is perfectly correct to draw attention to mass Dublin players dragging their Mayo counterparts to the ground in the dying seconds of the game. Any other county would have been asked the same questions. Ex players and many of the Dublin media are very reluctant to criticise the Dubs. Any other county would have been criticised. So Kimmage again was right to ask questions.

I would rather journalists like Kimmage who ask the tough questions and are not nodding and agreeing with everything. If we had more journalist like Kimmage, Ireland past problems would have been talked about. In Ireland we don't like the whistle-blower. We have a pack mentality. We don't like to hear the unvarnished truth. I would rather the truth then some cover up of the facts. Fair play to Kimmage. Always asking the right questions. And in time has always been on the right side of the arguement because he asked the questions with out bias or favour. The truth can be ugly and unpleasant. But the truth is the truth. And we need more people in this country saying what they really hink rather then following the pack mentality.

ThisRegard

Take the Dublin thing, and I'm not a huge GAA fan, but Kimmage was just looking for some **** to stir and become part of the story, not someone commenting on the story. He's gone off the rails and he was an awful gob****e with how he approached the final and the press conference afterwards.

Take a listen to the relevant Newspaper Review on Off the Ball that Sunday morning to hear an unhinged hypocrite of the highest order. He's had some fall from grace, all of his own doing.

Sonny678

ThisRegard wrote:

Take the Dublin thing, and I'm not a huge GAA fan, but Kimmage was just looking for some **** to stir and become part of the story, not someone commenting on the story. He's gone off the rails and he was an awful gob****e with how he approached the final and the press conference afterwards.

I disagree. Did Dublin players drag opponents to the ground. Yes. This happened. He did not make it up. I was at the match.
Listen every other team would have done the same. The difference is they would have been criticised. The Dubs weren't.
Kimmage is perfectly correct to ask questions on this. An excellent sport journalist who asks the tough questions.

ThisRegard

Sonny678 wrote: »

I disagree. Did Dublin players drag opponents to the ground. Yes. This happened. He did not make it up. I was at the match.
Listen every other team would have done the same. The difference is they would have been criticised. The Dubs weren't.
Kimmage is perfectly correct to ask questions on this. An excellent sport journalist who asks the tough questions.

Not getting into that particular argument, it's been done a million times. They aren't tough questions, they're raised on a weekly basis across the media, long before he ever got involved.

But his reaction was hilariously over the top, akin to a kid sticking his fingers in his ears singing I'm not listening. He actually said he doesn't want to hear what other people have to say about it. It was his opinion, or nothing.

CatFromHue

I would be a fan of Kimmage and think he's an excellent writer.

He does go over the top sometimes though and he himself shouldn't be exempt from criticism.

I don't think he's wrong at all for criticising the cynicism in the GAA, it's one of the reasons I don't watch it that much. As for the rugby some of his claims, like you've repeated above, are a bit silly (that the players are bigger now = drugs) but other times he has a point i.e. pain killers.

Macy0161

elperello wrote: »

+1
CB needs to sit down with the production team.
The show has lost it's way.

OT but did it have "a way" in the first place? Current affairs programming is trying to out liveline liveline! A waste of time if you want proper debate, rather than somebody ranting about wanting something paid by someone elses taxes!

terrydel

Sonny678 wrote: »

I think the criticism of Kimmage is telling.
I think Kimmage is a very good sports writer. Compared to the usual sporting reporting we hear eg the score is 1 nil and the best team won. His articles are interesting and thought provoking. Something you rarely can say about sport writing.

What he said about Lance Armstrong was proved correct. It was a very brave thing to do . Seen how powerful and influential Armstrong was. He took him and world cycling on. And was proved right. That's what I call been a very good journalist. It's not like he was wrong about the problems in cycling . He was right.

Rugby well again , it's not like cycling where everything has come out. But if you look at the changes in players physique today and 20 years ago . It's scary. Rugby 20 years ago was a wonderful skilful game where player ducked and weaved on the field. Players had a normal physique. Now it can be exciting game. But players bulked up to unreal levels are charging into each other. The impact down the line of this sort of game on current players future health is a massive question. Painkillers and other issues in rugby are an issue that need to be talked about. To blame Kimmage for talking about issues like above make no sense.

Regards the Dubs . The Dublin current team are the most lauded and celebrated team I have seen in GAA land. Across the media there is little criticism. Compared to what Meath footballers, Clare Hurlers ,Tyrone footballers ,Donegal footballers and Waterford hurling sweeper system have all received in GAA land. Kimmage is perfectly correct to draw attention to mass Dublin players dragging their Mayo counterparts to the ground in the dying seconds of the game. Any other county would have been asked the same questions. Ex players and many of the Dublin media are very reluctant to criticise the Dubs. Any other county would have been criticised. So Kimmage again was right to ask questions.

I would rather journalists like Kimmage who ask the tough questions and are not nodding and agreeing with everything. If we had more journalist like Kimmage, Ireland past problems would have been talked about. In Ireland we don't like the whistle-blower. We have a pack mentality. We don't like to hear the unvarnished truth. I would rather the truth then some cover up of the facts. Fair play to Kimmage. Always asking the right questions. And in time has always been on the right side of the arguement because he asked the questions with out bias or favour. The truth can be ugly and unpleasant. But the truth is the truth. And we need more people in this country saying what they really hink rather then following the pack mentality.

GAA players and managers have an Everest sized chip on their shoulder, every sentence starts with 'we proved the doubters wrong' or words to that effect (well apart from 'look it....')
As for Kimmage vs that private school tit Fuitzgerald, that was the most one-sided, embarassing 'debate' I've heard in a long time, Kimmage wiped the floor with an unprofessional clown. Kimmage is a grumpy old bollix but his personality makes him the brilliant journalist he is. Hes hugely principled in a world were few have any principles left. I for one think hes superb.

ThisRegard

You left out the manner in which Kimmage was educated as it seems to be relevant to Fitzgerald somehow.

I'm far from privately educated myself but what's the point in mentioning he's schooled privately?

I was once a big fan, would make a point of catching all his radio segments and articles, but he's becoming a one trick pony of contrarianism now.

Sonny678

ThisRegard wrote:

Not getting into that particular argument, it's been done a million times. They aren't tough questions, they're raised on a weekly basis across the media, long before he ever got involved.

They weren't raised by the media. The Sunday Game which usually loves this sort of thing . Never mentioned it. And it was completely ignored in all other rte radio or TV programmes and national papers tabloids. No mention whatsoever. Only Kimmage and Off the Ball mentioned it. That's a fact.

CatFromHue

The Nevada State Athletic Commission got a lot of heat for sanctioning the Mayweather McGregor fight but even they wouldn't have sanctioned a debate between Fitzgerald and Kimmage. It was a complete mismatch with Luke waaaaaay out of his depth.

ThisRegard

Sonny678 wrote: »

They weren't raised by the media. The Sunday Game which usually loves this sort of thing . Never mentioned it. And it was completely ignored in all other rte radio or TV programmes and national papers tabloids. No mention whatsoever. Only Kimmage and Off the Ball mentioned it. That's a fact.

Look, saying it's a fact does not make it so. The Independent, The Mirror, The Sun, The Examiner and a number of online publications such as the42 and sportsjoe have all mentioned it in stories or opinion pieces.

As I said, it's been done numerous times over, Kimmage didn't start that particular party. Here's one, from a cursory google, going back as far as April, talking about an Evening Herald article from the week previous that also discussed it, and walks through numerous examples of their cynicism http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/analysing-eamonn-fitzmaurices-three-examples-of-dublins-hard-edge-and-cynicism-35601841.html

Sonny678

terrydel wrote:

GAA players and managers have an Everest sized chip on their shoulder, every sentence starts with 'we proved the doubters wrong' or words to that effect (well apart from 'look it....') As for Kimmage vs that private school tit Fuitzgerald, that was the most one-sided, embarassing 'debate' I've heard in a long time, Kimmage wiped the floor with an unprofessional clown. Kimmage is a grumpy old bollix but his personality makes him the brilliant journalist he is. Hes hugely principled in a world were few have any principles left. I for one think hes superb.

I don't know what Fitzgeralds education has got to do with it. Kimmage did ambush him with folders and Fitzgerald was not prepared. He is very inexperienced in the media game going up against someone like Kimmage. Kimmage did wipe the floor with him. But Fitzgerald can become a good journalist. He does have better insights into rugby compared to others.

Kimmage and rugby is very interesting. Their is a certain circling of the wagons in rugby the same way there was in cycling 20 years ago. Rugby folk are very defensive the same way cycling folk were. But to believe their is no problems in rugby would be foolish and the height of ignorance. Again Kimmage is just stating the obvious, which in time will become the truth as more and more evidence emerges.

lyric1940

i have a scoda fabia 2010 i have had no end of problems with the dpf recently i had the offending softwere removed[march this yaar] and the car is behaving itself makes no sense to me but has anybody shared this experience??? cyril mcdonnell

Sonny678

Its was mentioned. But it was not criticised. There's a difference.

Alot of the reporting was after Kimmage made his comments. You had to go back to April to find criticism. Because until Kimmage said something there was feck all criticism. And kerry manager just mentioned it in April to draw refs attention to it.
Pat Spillane Joe Brolly and national journalist in the days after the final with the exception of off the ball ignored it. Overall the vast majority turned a blind eye to Dublins carry on until Kimmage spoke up. Dublin have had no criticism overall when you compare to what Meath Donegal and Tyrone footballers and Clare 90s and Galway hurlers in 80s had to deal with. Until Kimmage bravely spoke up, there was feck all criticism. To say there was is a falsehood. Where was the criticism on the Sunday Game?. It was not even mentioned on the Sunday Game. And the Sunday Game love this sort of thing.

ThisRegard

Last word. I said it was a cursory glance at google, I didn't have to to anything to find anything. It's been discussed and criticised long before the hero of the day got thick over it. When you use words like 'bravely spoke up' when discussing this you can only laugh. He's no Daphne Caruana.

Sonny678

Kimmage is not too likeable. He's a bit rough around the edges and wee bit abrasive. He doesn't do charm . But what he does is he is not afraid to speak his mind. And his record, especially in cycling is outstanding. The way he took on Armstrong and World cycling bodies was brave and in the end right . He was proved right.

So when he talks about other sports you know he doesn't have an agenda. And is coming from a proper journalistic mindset. Sure he's a Dub. Asking questions of Dublin being a Dub. You cannot accuse him of bias. The rugby questions all deserve to be asked. If there is no problem. Why do people not want someone asking questions. I think rugby in the next 20 years will have many revelations. For the sake of the health of players. I hope it will be tackled. Because long term health impacts on players will be a massive issue.

Sonny678

ThisRegard wrote:

Last word. I said it was a cursory glance at google, I didn't have to to anything to find anything. It's been discussed and criticised long before the hero of the day got thick over it. When you use words like 'bravely spoke up' when discussing this you can only laugh. He's no Daphne Caruana.

Again wrong. It was not criticised. In the week after the game no criticism. I read sports coverage in every national paper after the final the following week. No criticism.
The Sunday Game no mention. National radio no mention. It was not til Kimmage spoke up then it was mentioned. The only person that criticised until Kimmage was Joe Molloy on off the ball the Monday after the match. I read and listened to everything. It was praise galore. Little criticism.

Thud

Was a big fan of Kimmage but he is becoming a bit of a Dunphy all his articles and interviews are negative/drug infused now, they probably capture clickbait traffic more but would prefer a few more of his non negative articles

CatFromHue

he does a fair share of non negative articles.

a lot of his one on one, well probably most, interviews are very good and non negative.

Sonny678

Thud wrote:

Was a big fan of Kimmage but he is becoming a bit of a Dunphy all his articles and interviews are negative/drug infused now, they probably capture clickbait traffic more but would prefer a few more of his non negative articles

What do you want him to say. We have enough positive reporting. That is just the usual bland reporting eg team are great, sportsman is a legend. Kimmage looks deeper. And like anything is life if you dig deep you will find negative. Sport is no different.

He's not like Dunphy. Dunphy changes his opinion and mind on something every week. For the last 3 years he has moaned about M O Neill. After the Wales match in the star he was praising him. He has changed his opinion on Ronaldo Roy Keane U2 Fianna Fail Sinn Fein John Hume and the list goes on and on . He changes his viewpoint constantly. Kimmage doesn't. He pretty sticks to his guns. He is no Eamon Dunphy.

terrydel

ThisRegard wrote: »

You left out the manner in which Kimmage was educated as it seems to be relevant to Fitzgerald somehow.

I'm far from privately educated myself but what's the point in mentioning he's schooled privately?

I was once a big fan, would make a point of catching all his radio segments and articles, but he's becoming a one trick pony of contrarianism now.

The point? Private education is a form of elitism, which I despise. Imho it leads to a highly entitled attitude in many of its alumni, the kind of attitude the allows a journalist turn up to a debate completely unprepared as if that is beneath him. Which again imho is what Fitzgerald did.
Hopefully that answers it for you.

Sonny678

Private education has many issues. And can be criticised eg form of elitism that you mentioned above. But to have a go at Fitzgeralds private education why he was so bad v Kimmage is not correct. It was simply a very experienced top class journalist versus a young up and coming novice who is still learning his trade. Fitzgerald didn't think Kimmage was going to pull out the folders and bring up rugby. That was down to inexperience and naivety. Where he went to school had nothing to do with Kimmage showing him up. Private education should be discussed in many areas but not this.

CatFromHue

Fitzgerald isn't a journalist.

He's only in his second season of media work too so very very inexperienced.

rushfan

I read Rough Ride back when it was published and have read the vast majority of his articles in the various newspapers over the years. I've always enjoyed them, although it irks me somewhat to see how deliberately provocative he can be. What really bugs me though, is the way he shouts down his fellow debaters, if you don't agree with him God help you. If any if you saw the documentary about him a couple of years ago, he's driving up one of the mountain stages in the TdF and almost loses it at some guy on the road in front of him. He also admitted to cutting off a LA wristband worn by a daughter of somebody whose house he had called to for the purposes of an interview. If that had been my house, he'd have been asked very impolitely to leave.

dastardly00

terrydel wrote: »

The point? Private education is a form of elitism, which I despise. Imho it leads to a highly entitled attitude in many of its alumni, the kind of attitude the allows a journalist turn up to a debate completely unprepared as if that is beneath him. Which again imho is what Fitzgerald did.
Hopefully that answers it for you.

Sounds like you're the one with a big chip on the shoulder to be honest.
It's hard to take you points seriously when you are calling Fitzgerald a 'tit' and a 'clown'.

terrydel

Weepsie wrote: »

If he was so principled, he would not have simply said Humphries made a mistake.

He shouts, and shouts and badgers and gives out to people for not talking. Why not go down the investigative journalism route, look after your sources, build the story, then get it all open. He's done it before, but not so much anymore.

Rough Ride was great though, and numerous biographies since were pale imitations, the worst of which was David Millars.

Investigative journalism is hugely expensive and often leads nowhere. For all you know he could be investigating many things and hitting brick walls. Its harder now than ever with the pr and spin machines behind anything that generates money, such as most forms of professional sport.
Also, the newspaper industry is dying and owners of media outlets simply wont fund it.
I think he could have been stronger in his condemnation of Humphries yes. But I dont think him being a principled man could be in any doubt.

Thud

CatFromHue wrote: »

he does a fair share of non negative articles.

a lot of his one on one, well probably most, interviews are very good and non negative.

Yeah, those are great and I love his writing stiyle, but they seem to be less and less lately, golf seems to be the only topic that doesn't get pulled down into the drugs topic.

Sonny678 wrote: »

He's not like Dunphy .

I didn't say he was Dunphy and yes there are many differences but he comes across as angry most of the time lately (similar to Dunphy) and I'd wonder if working for the Indo and it's clickbait model has lead him to go for controversial stuff a bit more (like Dunphy does).

I'm sure you can find exceptions to this but that's just the my current opinion of him.