House hunting / selling price v asking price

Ninja_Go

Hi

Any advice on searching for a house to buy? Obviously checking daft.ie and myhome.ie but are there other sources/websites worth looking up?

Also wondering if anyone knows how much above asking price houses are selling in Dublin 24 at the moment? Our mortgage would just about cover the asking price of the houses we are interested in, but is it realistic to be looking at these, or should we be looking at houses well under budget?
Thanks in advance

davo10

Ninja_Go wrote: »

Hi

Any advice on searching for a house to buy? Obviously checking daft.ie and myhome.ie but are there other sources/websites worth looking up?

Also wondering if anyone knows how much above asking price houses are selling in Dublin 24 at the moment? Our mortgage would just about cover the asking price of the houses we are interested in, but is it realistic to be looking at these, or should we be looking at houses well under budget?
Thanks in advance

Well under budget.

Rarely do houses sell in Dublin sell at the asking price, supply is lower than demand so it's likely there will be other bidders, particularly if it is in the starter home sector.

handlemaster

Ninja_Go wrote: »

Hi

Any advice on searching for a house to buy? Obviously checking daft.ie and myhome.ie but are there other sources/websites worth looking up?

Also wondering if anyone knows how much above asking price houses are selling in Dublin 24 at the moment? Our mortgage would just about cover the asking price of the houses we are interested in, but is it realistic to be looking at these, or should we be looking at houses well under budget?
Thanks in advance

move your budget. what your budget is now sounds like its not enought. in 12 months time after not finding anything you will move up in budget and would be more likely to buy now for that.

Ninja_Go

handlemaster wrote: »

move your budget. what your budget is now sounds like its not enought. in 12 months time after not finding anything you will move up in budget and would be more likely to buy now for that.

What do you mean by 'move your budget' ?
Conjure up more money out of thin air?

handlemaster

Ninja_Go wrote: »

What do you mean by 'move your budget' ?
Conjure up more money out of thin air?

come back in 12 months. let us know where you are

Ninja_Go

handlemaster wrote: »

come back in 12 months. let us know where you are

I've only come here looking for advice, and I'm just asking you to clarify what you mean by 'move your budget' - are you suggesting to somehow increase my budget?I'd love to know how to do this?!
If you actually meant to say 'move your location to better suit your budget' well at least that is possible. There's no need to get snotty with me is there?

myshirt

Ninja_Go wrote: »

I've only come here looking for advice, and I'm just asking you to clarify what you mean by 'move your budget' - are you suggesting to somehow increase my budget?I'd love to know how to do this?!
If you actually meant to say 'move your location to better suit your budget' well at least that is possible. There's no need to get snotty with me is there?

Is your current budget pushing you to the max?
If it is, you have a huge problem. If you are buying a house you need good fundamentals behind you, don't ever let your budget be 'whatever the bank will give me'.

It's not unreasonable for this chap to have assumed a difference between (1) your budget and (2) you at your max. Hence the suggestion to move the budget.

In terms of the prices you see on daft, budget a minimum of 5% more than asking, but realistically 10%, and ideally 15%. Asking prices generate interest, they are not selling prices. Look at the property price register, the houses selling at asking in Dublin and the commuter belt are like hens teeth, though you might get something 5 or 10k above asking in the wider commuter belt like Bettystown, Drogheda, or Navan.

Dublin 24 of them all is pretty competitive given how accessible the prices are. Best of luck.

raxy

We only looked at one house in tallaght when we bought. Old, cold & would need a lot of work & when we viewed it it was 5k over the asking. Not sure what its like now, we bought a year ago.
Go to a few viewings in area's your interested in & see how they go would give you an idea. You didn't mention what your budget was but you might get better value in Clondalkin.

cronos

Ninja_Go wrote: »

I've only come here looking for advice, and I'm just asking you to clarify what you mean by 'move your budget' - are you suggesting to somehow increase my budget?I'd love to know how to do this?!
If you actually meant to say 'move your location to better suit your budget' well at least that is possible. There's no need to get snotty with me is there?

No he's saying you need to save for 12 months more in order to purchase. Problem with that though is an extra 12 months renting assuming you are and also more price increases.

Ninja_Go

myshirt wrote: »

Is your current budget pushing you to the max?
If it is, you have a huge problem. If you are buying a house you need good fundamentals behind you, don't ever let your budget be 'whatever the bank will give me'.

It's not unreasonable for this chap to have assumed a difference between (1) your budget and (2) you at your max. Hence the suggestion to move the budget.

In terms of the prices you see on daft, budget a minimum of 5% more than asking, but realistically 10%, and ideally 15%. Asking prices generate interest, they are not selling prices. Look at the property price register, the houses selling at asking in Dublin and the commuter belt are like hens teeth, though you might get something 5 or 10k above asking in the wider commuter belt like Bettystown, Drogheda, or Navan.

Dublin 24 of them all is pretty competitive given how accessible the prices are. Best of luck.

Thanks for all of the above. PPR selling prices aren't far off the current asking for the areas we're interested in, but its hard to know what the asking prices were on those properties, prices have gone up a lot in the past few months. We are very close to our max with deposit+mortgage with only a few grand to spare which we'll need for stamp duty/solicitors fees etc.

Ninja_Go

cronos wrote: »

No he's saying you need to save for 12 months more in order to purchase. Problem with that though is an extra 12 months renting assuming you are and also more price increases.

I think it's safe to say he wasn't saying save for 12 months more, but was saying I'll get nowhere in 12 months without increasing the budget.. which is pretty impossible unless I'm somehow gifted a substantial chunk of cash.

Ninja_Go

raxy wrote: »

We only looked at one house in tallaght when we bought. Old, cold & would need a lot of work & when we viewed it it was 5k over the asking. Not sure what its like now, we bought a year ago.
Go to a few viewings in area's your interested in & see how they go would give you an idea. You didn't mention what your budget was but you might get better value in Clondalkin.

Yes definitely better value in Clondalkin and resigning ourselves to that idea but being from Tallaght and living back here for 6 years I'd prefer to buy in Tallaght, even if it's old and cold or whatever. I don't know clondalkin well and the more affordable houses there seem to be further and further from Tallaght.

myshirt

You need to invest your money so that your money does some leg work for you. Speak to a financial advisor. Look for something in the 3-5% return range, mix of etf's, low yield bonds, or property if you want to hedge somewhat. You don't want to risk that deposit but you do need your money to work for you because the prices will grow faster than you can save and faster than your wage growth, you will never catch up just leaving that money going stale.

Ninja_Go

myshirt wrote: »

You need to invest your money so that your money does some leg work for you. Speak to a financial advisor. Look for something in the 3-5% return range, mix of etf's, low yield bonds, or property if you want to hedge somewhat. You don't want to risk that deposit but you do need your money to work for you because the prices will grow faster than you can save and faster than your wage growth, you will never catch up just leaving that money going stale.

Thanks for your reply but we don't want to grow our money we want to buy a house as quickly as possible, judging by the responses to this thread we just need to be more realistic about the asking prices and location. We have rented for 14 years and finally have a deposit and mortgage approval after saving for 6 years, most definitely do not want to wait any longer.

kaymin

myshirt wrote: »

You need to invest your money so that your money does some leg work for you. Speak to a financial advisor. Look for something in the 3-5% return range, mix of etf's, low yield bonds, or property if you want to hedge somewhat. You don't want to risk that deposit but you do need your money to work for you because the prices will grow faster than you can save and faster than your wage growth, you will never catch up just leaving that money going stale.

There's too many contradictions in this advice - you have to take risks to get higher returns. Encouraging novices to invest their hard earned deposits in etfs when markets and company valuations are at all time highs is crazy. Also their time horizon is not at all suitable. If you are investing short-term (<5years) you should only invest in equities money you are prepared to lose.

In short, don't follow this advice.

Sleeper12

Ninja_Go wrote:

Any advice on searching for a house to buy? Obviously checking daft.ie and myhome.ie but are there other sources/websites worth looking up?

I'm not sure if all houses get listed on daft but you could check out the local ea in the area that you want

OwlsZat

myshirt wrote: »

You need to invest your money so that your money does some leg work for you. Speak to a financial advisor. Look for something in the 3-5% return range, mix of etf's, low yield bonds, or property if you want to hedge somewhat. You don't want to risk that deposit but you do need your money to work for you because the prices will grow faster than you can save and faster than your wage growth, you will never catch up just leaving that money going stale.

Are you a CFA or are you unqualified and giving out nonsense advice?

MSVforever

Go to as many viewings as possible so you can get a better idea of the demand / competition. If possible don't put yourself under pressure to buy right now.
EA's can smell desperation.
If your budget is €300k then I would be looking in the €230-€280k bracket.

Lumen

I bought last year for 2% under asking. It does happen. .

Below asking doesn't mean good value. In our case the asking was too high, and we probably overpaid. The house had been on market for ages.

Make lots of offers, don't get fixated on one house.

If you want value find somewhere with something that would put off other people but not you. E.g. buy an ugly house if you're blind.

Good luck.

minimumprice

If you are the first time buyer, worth a read:
thejournal.ie/9-things-every-first-time-buyer-should-do-according-to-an-estate-agent-3611301-Oct2017/

CorkonianBoy

Can someone explain the strategy in offering prices that are 10-15% BELOW expected sales prices?  To generate a bidding war?  Why not list property at 10-15% ABOVE expected pricing and then sell at a price that makes buyer think they are getting a discount?  I do not know of any statistics on this issue but I wonder which strategy generally results in the higher sales price.  This would be an interesting study.

Cuddlesworth

CorkonianBoy wrote: »

Can someone explain the strategy in offering prices that are 10-15% BELOW expected sales prices?  To generate a bidding war?  Why not list property at 10-15% ABOVE expected pricing and then sell at a price that makes buyer think they are getting a discount?  I do not know of any statistics on this issue but I wonder which strategy generally results in the higher sales price.  This would be an interesting study.

You mean like every single Auction in the world? Because that's what a house sale is.

The psychology behind it is simple, once people "bid" they are invested. Once a person is invested in something, they are will to put more into it.

CorkonianBoy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

CorkonianBoy wrote: »

Can someone explain the strategy in offering prices that are 10-15% BELOW expected sales prices?  To generate a bidding war?  Why not list property at 10-15% ABOVE expected pricing and then sell at a price that makes buyer think they are getting a discount?  I do not know of any statistics on this issue but I wonder which strategy generally results in the higher sales price.  This would be an interesting study.

You mean like every single Auction in the world? Because that's what a house sale is.

The psychology behind it is simple, once people "bid" they are invested. Once a person is invested in something, they are will to put more into it.

Yes, Cuddlesworth, I understand the psychology, however, every house sale is not an "auction" in the traditional sense.  In a real auction, there are truly motivated participants, a specific time limit, vendors are required to accept the highest bid and bidders are required to close.  For property sales, participants may or may not be motivated, listing prices can change, offers/acceptances can be withdrawn, and there is no set time limit.

I truly wonder if this process has been designed mostly to benefit auctioneers who wish to shorten the marketing period and do not care whether vendor receives the highest possible price?

Graham

Mod Note: off-topic posts deleted.

riclad

You can use daft or my home ie and the price register to see what a house is worth in any area.
Say you have permission to borrow 200k from your bank
look at houses going for 140-200 k.
Prices are going up in dublin ,
it depends what area you go for, you may have 1 or more bidders .
People want to live in citys, urban area,s ,
theres plenty of cheap houses in rural area,s .
Theres very few houses being built at the moment,
and loads of potential buyers.
I see articles about finglas, or dublin 15 , in regard to
new places to buy
the prices are low compared with santry or dublin 2.
Blnchardstown has good transport links and a large shopping centre .
Agents may price 10 per cent below what they think a house is worth
to get in more prospective buyers.
In area,s of high demand the asking price may be a starting point,
eg i might take 200, but if someone offers 250k,
I wont refuse the offer.
in dublin its a sellers market.20 0r 40k off a price is not enough to start a bidding war.

theboringfox

CorkonianBoy wrote: »

Yes, Cuddlesworth, I understand the psychology, however, every house sale is not an "auction" in the traditional sense.  In a real auction, there are truly motivated participants, a specific time limit, vendors are required to accept the highest bid and bidders are required to close.  For property sales, participants may or may not be motivated, listing prices can change, offers/acceptances can be withdrawn, and there is no set time limit.

I truly wonder if this process has been designed mostly to benefit auctioneers who wish to shorten the marketing period and do not care whether vendor receives the highest possible price?

Agents sometimes price at a lower asking as it attracts people to the poperty. The more people he or she gets to see it then the more likely bidders.

CorkonianBoy

theboringfox wrote: »

CorkonianBoy wrote: »

Yes, Cuddlesworth, I understand the psychology, however, every house sale is not an "auction" in the traditional sense.  In a real auction, there are truly motivated participants, a specific time limit, vendors are required to accept the highest bid and bidders are required to close.  For property sales, participants may or may not be motivated, listing prices can change, offers/acceptances can be withdrawn, and there is no set time limit.

I truly wonder if this process has been designed mostly to benefit auctioneers who wish to shorten the marketing period and do not care whether vendor receives the highest possible price?

Agents sometimes price at a lower asking as it attracts people to the poperty. The more people he or she gets to see it then the more likely bidders.

Yes, fox, that strategy should result in more bids.  But will it result in achieving the highest price?  I am not sure.

theboringfox

CorkonianBoy wrote: »

Yes, fox, that strategy should result in more bids.  But will it result in achieving the highest price?  I am not sure.

I agree it can be a bit odd. The risk is people see the asking price as its value and so anything bid over it they then feel they are overpaying. But I think agents are happy enough that does not happen and by and large people will bid it up. Plus once agent gets you in door he can then start usual dross about sellers expect it to go well over asking.

In my experience really nice houses are priced lower so you get people in and they fall in love with it and get in a bidding frenzy. With properties that are being sold on their potential then asking is often pushed higher as agent wants to tell the buyers this is what its worth.

OwlsZat

My colleague went sale agreed on a house two weeks ago. No contacts so was getting a bit tense. Under pressure the EA told him they were planning to have one last open viewing. 

Badly needs regulation, the fact there is no process leave the whole lot open to mass abuse.

CorkonianBoy

I find it extremely interesting that there appears to be two almost completely opposite strategies for listing property and soliciting bids - 1) list below expected sales price and encourage a bidding war and 2) list above expected sales price and negotiate down from there.  Surely, only one strategy can be right - the one that results in the highest sales price.  Any thoughts?

LirW

The overpricing has often to do with vendors overestimating the value of their houses. Happens a lot in rural areas with lower demand. People have nice houses, they spent years in it and put a lot of pride into them. They of course don't want to hear that their house most likely won't get them as much as they thought but they want it listed for a certain price anyway. My former neighbors were like that. They usually aren't in a rush to sell.
If a house have to be sold quickly, it's a good way to list it lower to draw interest.

In the end the vendor has the call because they hired the EA.

CorkonianBoy

Lirw, so you think underpricing and hoping for a bidding war is the preferred strategy?

LirW

Possibly if you want a quick sale.
But it all comes down to the vendor.

LincolnHawk

A lot of the underpricing I think is to do with appearing in query results on daft/myhome.
The amount of properties listed at 395k to appear in results of 400k bracket for example.
...i have no evidence, just a theory

kippy

LincolnHawk wrote: »

A lot of the underpricing I think is to do with appearing in query results on daft/myhome.
The amount of properties listed at 395k to appear in results of 400k bracket for example.
...i have no evidence, just a theory

There is something to this.
If potential buyers have an alert set up on daft or search based on a price you end up getting the house shown in more searches/alerts the lower you price the house.
Generally you will find that people who want a quicker sale will end up pricing the house lower than the expected sale price to generate more interest in the house. More interest is generated by ensuring the add doe the house gets to as wide an audience as possible.

fg1406

I've been monitoring asking price v sales where I live for the past 10 months. Now one EA locally has a huge section of the market sown up. I only looked at a small sample-residential properties in the town itself. So this EA who is not tied with a franchise has over 30% of the market. My personal dealings with him were he would facilitate a viewing anytime of day or night whereas it could take me up to a week to try get other EAs to even return my calls let alone get a viewing. Anyway, in a town with approximately 20 EA businesses this guy is doing very well. His strategy seems to be to price high and bargain down from there. Out of the 30 properties that he sold in the town this year, only 4 sold for asking price or higher. All of the rest sold for lower. His strategy seems to be to be working since he is getting a huge chunk of the business in the town.

stargazer 68

Went to an open viewing last week. Property was on at 295 with a current offer of 280. Rang EA today - current offer is 320 and going up!

Gorgeous house - location not so sure of. It's at the end of an estate which goes into an industrial estate so the dividing wall has barbed wire and corrugated iron all along it. Bit of an eyesore imo.

LirW

fg1406 wrote: »

I've been monitoring asking price v sales where I live for the past 10 months. Now one EA locally has a huge section of the market sown up. I only looked at a small sample-residential properties in the town itself. So this EA who is not tied with a franchise has over 30% of the market. My personal dealings with him were he would facilitate a viewing anytime of day or night whereas it could take me up to a week to try get other EAs to even return my calls let alone get a viewing. Anyway, in a town with approximately 20 EA businesses this guy is doing very well. His strategy seems to be to price high and bargain down from there. Out of the 30 properties that he sold in the town this year, only 4 sold for asking price or higher. All of the rest sold for lower. His strategy seems to be to be working since he is getting a huge chunk of the business in the town.

Are you in Dublin or another big town? Because that changes everything significantly.

fg1406

LirW wrote: »

Are you in Dublin or another big town? Because that changes everything significantly.

Town in the south east. Different market altogether than Dublin

Cuddlesworth

fg1406 wrote: »

Town in the south east. Different market altogether than Dublin

Which means even if you price "low", you won't exactly generate a bidding war. Not to say there won't be interested bidders, its just that in that case of that agent, they feel like they are getting a good deal. You can't create a air of competition in a small market.

fg1406

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Which means even if you price "low", you won't exactly generate a bidding war. Not to say there won't be interested bidders, its just that in that case of that agent, they feel like they are getting a good deal. You can't create a air of competition in a small market.

Exactly. Some other EAs refuse to engage with anyone who will bid below asking price and leave the house sitting on the market for months. I bid on a property back in march/April and bid below asking (about 5% below) taking into account the prices of similar properties in the estate and the fact that the kitchen was a wreck and would need to be replaced. EA/vendor wouldn't accept so we withdrew. House sat on the market for 7 months and a sale agreed sign only on it now.

Other EAs in the town will generate a bidding war by pricing reasonably and I've been involved in one myself. There is a massive lack of supply of 3-4 bed semi d's in good knick. There are a lot of probate sales at the moment which means a lot of the properties currently for sale are reasonable in price but need a huge amount of work to them. There are also a lot of houses at the upper end (which means €400k-€500k in a medium sized regions town) which don't see any bidding wars. They languish on the market for however long it takes to get a buyer.

fg1406

Also as an addendum see this from the Indo:

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/90pc-of-properties-are-selling-for-different-sum-to-the-asking-price-36028572.html

I'm on mobile so can't do quotes properly but there is an interesting line in it whereby it states that the EA must ascertain to the best of their ability the AMV and is the property sells for 10% more or less, the PSRA can take action against the agent. Now that must be happening wholesale in the Dublin market. Here, in my town, it's usually 5-6% either side of the asking price.

Cash_Q

I originally started this thread and was posting as ninja go but lost my password and login details hence the new account.

So, having got mortgage approval at the tail end of October, we had an offer of 2,000euro below asking accepted within 3 days of mortgage approval. Signed contracts in January with the prospect of delays to get tenants out, but luckily they've now vacated and we are closing in 10 days. Thanks for all the helpful advice and for those who said to come back in 12 months..Well by then we'll be well settled into our under budget home

Heres Johnny

Cash_Q wrote: »

I originally started this thread and was posting as ninja go but lost my password and login details hence the new account.

So, having got mortgage approval at the tail end of October, we had an offer of 2,000euro below asking accepted within 3 days of mortgage approval. Signed contracts in January with the prospect of delays to get tenants out, but luckily they've now vacated and we are closing in 10 days. Thanks for all the helpful advice and for those who said to come back in 12 months..Well by then we'll be well settled into our under budget home

Well done did you get a location you were happy with?

Cash_Q

Heres Johnny wrote:

Well done did you get a location you were happy with?

Yes in the exact location we wanted, 5 mins from m50, 5 mins from my parents and 5 mins from my brother. And for less than a lot of the houses now asking in less desirable parts of Tallaght. Delighted!