SIL upset over date

LegacyUser

Myself and my fiancee set a date for our wedding and booked a venue 4 weeks ago. He announced it to his UK family over a group whatsapp message. His sister responded a week later to say she couldn't come because she'd have to take her 7 year old out of school. (it seems like a flimsy enough reason but that's what we have to go on) My fiancee suggested if school was an issue maybe she could leave her child at home and come without her. This upset my Sister in Law to be and there has been barely a word between them since.

I'm now getting messages from his mother asking whats going on and will we be changing the date. I've asked my fiancee a few times to speak to his sister over skype to sort it out but he feels she's being unreasonable.

At this point I don't care anymore whose being unreasonable I just don't want any bad blood. As it stands we've booked the venue and registrar so it would be difficult to change the date but I just want the issue sorted so it can be something for everyone to look forward to.

Why are weddings such drama magnets? I just want a relaxed, happy get together for both our families and friends! Any advice?

GingerLily

Is the wedding a mid week wedding or a Saturday wedding?

Sunny Dayz

AFAIK schools in the UK are very strict about taking children out of school during term time for things like holidays.

She knows the date, she has the invite. What more do you need to do?

Ghekko

I agree. You can't please everyone. You've set the date, stick with it and whoever can come will come. Were kids even going to be invited in the first place? If so let her explain to the school about the wedding and hopefully they will be reasonable. If not hopefully she'll have inlaws who can step in to mind the child for a couple of days.

Riskymove

Ghekko wrote: »

I agree. You can't please everyone.

Jaysus...people a bit blasé

This is the groom's sister, who is based abroad. I would like to think I would have tried to ensure I picked a date that my sister could attend.

The reply of "just leave the kid behind" is basically saying that you don't care if your sister's family attends

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

Jaysus...people a bit blasé

This is the groom's sister, who is based abroad. I would like to think I would have tried to ensure I picked a date that my sister could attend.

The reply of "just leave the kid behind" is basically saying that you don't care if your sister's family attends

Can't manage the entire wedding party. That's where the stress comes from.

OP doesn't mention how much notice the invitees have but one would trust it's far enough away to organise travel or babysitter, depending on which is required. I don't think there's any onus on them to be doing any more based on the info given.

blue note

Riskymove wrote: »

Jaysus...people a bit blasé

This is the groom's sister, who is based abroad. I would like to think I would have tried to ensure I picked a date that my sister could attend.

The reply of "just leave the kid behind" is basically saying that you don't care if your sister's family attends

I'd share this opinion. I wouldn't dream of setting a wedding date that my girlfriend's immediate family couldn't make and I think she'd be the same about my immediate family. I'm not saying you have to set a date that suits every aunt, uncle and first cousin once removed. You have to draw a line somewhere, I just wouldn't be drawing it before siblings.

What can you do now? Address her concerns and if it was me I would definitely look at changing the date if she can't make it that day. You say you want a happy get together for both your families and friends, but you seem to have a bit of a "pity about you" attitude towards your future sister in law about even making it.

SusieBlue

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

AFAIK schools in the UK are very strict about taking children out of school during term time for things like holidays.

This is what I was going to say. AFIK any non certified days off school result in parents being fined around £120, if I remember correctly. They take attendance very seriously in the UK.
Is this a mid week wedding or a weekend one?

GingerLily

WhiteRoses wrote: »

This is what I was going to say. AFIK any non certified days off school result in parents being fined around £120, if I remember correctly. They take attendance very seriously in the UK.
Is this a mid week wedding or a weekend one?

Would she be able to make the wedding without missing school?

sashafierce

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kylith

Riskymove wrote: »

Jaysus...people a bit blasé

This is the groom's sister, who is based abroad. I would like to think I would have tried to ensure I picked a date that my sister could attend.

The reply of "just leave the kid behind" is basically saying that you don't care if your sister's family attends

I would try to change the date if possible, but it often seems to happen that if you move it to suit one person then someone else won't be able to make it and you'll be asked to move it again. Would her partner's family not be able to mind the kid for a couple of days?

OP, perhaps have a chat to the registry office, send your families a list of 3 dates and majority wins.

Steviesol

I wouldn't change the date. Bet if you do, it will upset someone else. If she can't go, she can't go. Move on.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Its a Friday wedding next year. Its in a registry office so has to be midweek and unless we change it to during school summer holidays, the day will still be an issue. In hindsight we probably should have checked with family before booking a venue, but we had told them the month we were planning for and no objections were raised at that point.

We wern't aware there was a penalty for taking a kid out of school and I can appreciate its an extra expense/hassle for them. To be honest my fiancee suggested leaving the child at home only because we were so surprised by the blunt refusal. We want them all to be there and didn't expect it would be a big issue for them all to come. That's our own naivety I suppose.

woodchuck

I don't think you're being unreasonable OP. Presumably you've set the date well ahead of time, so they have time to make any necessary arrangements for the child. If taking the child out of school isn't an option, they look into getting a babysitter or have the child stay over at a friends house etc. Or (god forbid) the father of the child could give the wedding a miss to look after his own child.
You are NEVER going to please everyone. As others have said, if you move the date, it will just end up not suiting somebody else. She has the invite, it's up to her whether or not she's in a position to accept.

duffman13

I really don't see why this your problem or why his mother is texting you. Your OH should be dealing with his immediate family and I really can't understand why he hasn't picked up the phone and talked to her.

The fact she took a week to reply means she wasn't pushed to attend in the first place or she was trying to weigh up means of being there. They live in another country with kids and it could be a logistical headache trying to organise things. I'd go with your original date and get your OH to make a call and explain to his sister that he really wants her there and he genuinely didn't consider the kids. He understands if she can't make it but your now locked into contracts etc.

I'm the middle of planning a wedding and I know how stressful it is, we've lots of family coming from abroad and had the wedding on a Saturday to suit some people, it's out other people out but at the end of the day you can't please everyone but you can at least maintain important relationships.

Toots

I wonder did the sister not respond for a week because she was trying to see would the school allow her to take the child out during term time? I've cousins in the UK and they were only saying recently what a nightmare it is if they're invited to midweek weddings now that their kids are in school. Apparently you can take them out during term time in exceptional circumstances, but it has to be pre-arranged with the principal beforehand, and unfortunately it's completely at the discretion of the principal. If you decide "feck it" and take the kids out anyway, you can be prosecuted!

Usually I'd be slow to say to someone to look at changing their date, but seeing as it's the groom's sister, I can see how the family would be upset. Also the suggestion to just leave the kid at home probably wasn't well received, it probably came across as though your fiancé didn't care if the child was there or not. I see you've mentioned a registrar, so assuming the wedding is a civil ceremony and therefore you're limited to weekdays. When is the wedding? Would it be possible to get a list of dates of the days your fiancé's niece is going to be off school and see are there any midweek dates to choose from there that are close to the original date you wanted? I don't know how many holidays they get in the UK, but here there's usually an autumn mid term, spring mid term, Christmas holidays, easter holidays and also usually a day or two between easter and summer.

shesty

Unfortunately, what Toots says is true.You actually aren't being unreasonable OP (your OH should be sorting this btw) but the hassle of taking kids out of school in the UK even just for one day is horrendous.I do know one family who had to come back here for four days (two school days) for a family wedding a couple of months ago and their child is in the first year....equivalent of our junior infants....the teacher ended up advising the mother to call the child in sick because it was the 'simplest' way to deal with the situation.(and even at that the school had a heap of admin to chase).It's just very unfortunate that they have a different system to ours.

I don't know what the plan was by way of inviting families etc but maybe see if you could do something with the date if you were going to invite everyone.

Big Bag of Chips

My friend, from the UK, is getting married here in a few weeks. It's a Saturday wedding and his sister planned to fly in Friday night and out again Sunday evening. The girls are to be flower girls and at that rate were unlikely to even last the day due to exhaustion. They had a big row about it, and the mother went to the principal to arrange it. But it wasn't straightforward.

It's hard for people here, or people without kids to understand, but it has put your sister in law in a situation.

Yes, you shouldn't have to check with all family members to check the date suits, that's not really something people tend to do. But, you also need to appreciate that the date you picked is going to make things difficult for her.

MissShihTzu

Had the same issue when I got married. It was here in Ireland, Saturday wedding and we chose the week before half-term so that it would be cheaper for people to fly from London where I am from.

Bit of a drama, but my cousins and brothers had to write letters to the school explaining it was a family wedding and that the children would be out of school one day. For my friend's son it was particularly unfortunate as it was GCSE year, and his school flat out refused permission. My own nephew was able to attend even though he was in the same year.

Depends on the school, depends on the head and what kind of mood they might be in, I'm afraid.

I can really see why the groom's family would be upset. But I also understand it from the bride and groom's side.

Bit of a pickle really. Whatever date you choose, it's going to upset someone's life arrangements. The only time you might be able to get away with it is during school holidays! Even that is not a given in the UK as they vary so much.

I would try to talk to your SiL yourself and see how you can resolve this.

lazybones32

If she really wants to be there for her brother's wedding, she will make some arrangement. Don't entertain a single thought about rearranging anything to accomodate her.

She is being unreasonable. It's neither your/fiancee's job to make her see sense but gently remind her she is invited and you'd like to see her there. Nothing more you can do.

SusieBlue

I think people are neglecting to notice the UK laws about school attendance. If this were an Irish child it would be different, but the parents will be fined and potentially prosecuted (Google for similar cases if you won't take my word) if the child misses a non certified school day.
There are also many news articles about children not being allowed go on school trips/days out just because they missed 1-2 days which isn't fair on the child either.
Just yesterday I read a story about a little boy not being allowed go on a school trip as punishment for taking a half day to go see a diabetes doctor! So I can only imaging the repercussions for a child who took a day off to go to a wedding.
This is far more complex than the day 'not suiting' the sister.
Some people here musnt have read any other replies before posting.

MissShihTzu

lazybones32 wrote: »

If she really wants to be there for her brother's wedding, she will make some arrangement. Don't entertain a single thought about rearranging anything to accomodate her.

She is being unreasonable. It's neither your/fiancee's job to make her see sense but gently remind her she is invited and you'd like to see her there. Nothing more you can do.

Actually, NEITHER are being unreasonable! I as well as others have pointed out how strict schools are in the UK when it comes to absences - authorised or not. The OP is entitled to book her wedding when she wants. But -she has to expect that people might not always be able to fall in with their plans. I am sure the SiL and her family would love to attend the wedding, but the children will be a problem as she will find it difficult to take them out of school.

The OP and her SiL are between a rock and a hard place. I think a resolution can be found, but they need to talk.

Thestones

the 'child' is the grooms NIECE for gods sake, a bit cold to say oh leave the kid behind, get her babysat etc. OP imo I think you and your fiancée are in the wrong here, it's his sister and niece, why would you not do what you can to make them both be able to come? Sometimes peoples attitude towards children baffle me, I think kids make a wedding, it's supposed to be a family event but you often hear of 'no children allowed' weddings which I think are pathetic.

amtc

We have absolutely no idea how close brother and sister are or how close uncle and niece are. I went to Australia to go to one aunt's wedding but didn't go 2 km up the road to go to another. Personally I wouldn't change dates...although not in favour of bridezillas this is one day where it is entitled to be all about the couple. Sister should not be involving bride only her brother.

scarepanda

Seriously op, there should be no drama over this. Yourself and your oh have chosen a date, not every family member can go, that's life, that's weddings.

Just tell the sister that you would love for them to be there, but if they can't make it then you understand and will do something to celebrate when she is home again after the wedding.

I seriously don't understand why so much drama is created by family when it comes to weddings. I really don't.

wedding date upset

wedding date upset wrote: »

His sister responded a week later to say she couldn't come because she'd have to take her 7 year old out of school. (it seems like a flimsy enough reason but that's what we have to go on)

OK well firstly, I think we've established that this is not a flimsy reason.

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence

Does your fiancé even realise this is an issue?

wedding date upset wrote: »

I'm now getting messages from his mother asking whats going on and will we be changing the date. I've asked my fiancee a few times to speak to his sister over skype to sort it out but he feels she's being unreasonable.

Secondly, it's up to your fiancé to deal with his family, not you, and it seems he's shirking this responsibility, tell HIM to deal with his mother.

wedding date upset wrote: »

My fiancee suggested if school was an issue maybe she could leave her child at home and come without her. This upset my Sister in Law to be and there has been barely a word between them since.

Lastly, this is a very (if you'll pardon the pun) relative issue.

Some people wouldn't be bothered if their sister or their niece couldn't make it to their wedding, other people wouldn't dream of having their wedding without them.

We have no idea which of these you and your fiancé are because it's totally understandable that you weren't aware of the issues with school absence in the UK or if you genuinely believe that your sister-in-law is just trying to be difficult on purpose.

So now you have to make an informed choice as to whether to change the date or not. If you decide to stick to the date, own the decision.

LegacyUser

I tried to post a response last night but it never appeared. Thank you to everyone whose taken the time to reply.

To answer some questions: The wedding is on a Friday next year. Its a civil ceremony so has to be midweek. We were trying to avoid school holidays to cut down on travel costs for our guests coming from the UK. Obviously we were wrong in that. We weren't aware about the difficulty in taking children out of school there. That's down to our own naivety, not apathy towards his family.

When my fiance suggested leaving his niece at home it was more out of genuine surprise at the blunt "I'm not coming" he got from his sister. We want everyone to be able to come and we want everyone to be happy with the arrangements. The fact this is causing a family rift on his side is stressful.

Myself an my fiance had intended to pay for accommodation for his whole family (6 people) as they are all traveling from the UK whereas my family all live locally to the venue. I'm hoping her knowing this helps to appease things. We are really hoping it doesn't come to having to change the date. There are a lot of factors that need to line up when your planning these things.

GingerLily

If you have a midweek wedding you have to accept that guests with kids might not come. It's very unfair to expect someone to arrange a babysitter for a mid week including school morning drop off and pick, it's not viable for a lot of parents to arrange this.

I don't think you should change your date but you should empathise with his sister and tell her you understand she and her child can't make it, explain that civil ceremonies have to be mid week and you will get together and celebrate with them at another time.

GingerLily

GingerLily wrote: »

If you have a midweek wedding you have to accept that guests with kids might not come. It's very unfair to expect someone to arrange a babysitter for a mid week including school morning drop off and pick, it's not viable for a lot of parents to arrange this.

"Very unfair" is a huge overstatement. The date is set for the wedding as suits the requirements of the couple getting married. If that doesn't suit everyone, it's not "unfair" it's unfortunate.

And what's the big deal about babysitting? Jesus, weren't we all babysat once?

Call me Al

GingerLily wrote: »

If you have a midweek wedding you have to accept that guests with kids might not come. It's very unfair to expect someone to arrange a babysitter for a mid week including school morning drop off and pick, it's not viable for a lot of parents to arrange this.

I don't think you should change your date but you should empathise with his sister and tell her you understand she and her child can't make it, explain that civil ceremonies have to be mid week and you will get together and celebrate with them at another time.

I tend to agree.
I think the fact that you have to choose a mon-Fri day means that, should you feel that you have to have your future sil's family there, your only options become her child's school holidays.
Is this a realistic expectation for you and your fiance?
All things considered how does this fit for the rest of the people you want to have there?
Does it suit any specific honeymoon plans your fiance and you might have?
Are there financial implications for these school-friendly dates?

If these things don't work for you and your wedding party and other family members then your sister in law needs to really think about what she is expecting from both of you.
But if it's much of a muchness for you both then personally I would change the date.
But the implied expectation from your future MIL that the date was to be changed would irritate me no-end! That isn't her decision to make or influence.

SusieBlue

Deleted User wrote: »

"Very unfair" is a huge overstatement. The date is set for the wedding as suits the requirements of the couple getting married. If that doesn't suit everyone, it's not "unfair" it's unfortunate.

And what's the big deal about babysitting? Jesus, weren't we all babysat once?

Babysitting?! The mum would be leaving the child for a minimum of 2 nights while she goes to a foreign country to a wedding, its not like its only for a couple of hours.
And in this day in age you'd be hard pushed to not only find someone willing to mind the child for that long, but to find someone trustable. I'm sure many parents wouldn't want to go abroad leaving their child with a "babysitter" for that long.

Its very unfair to be put out that the sister isn't coming when the circumstances of the wedding make it nearly impossible to do so.

lazybones32

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Actually, NEITHER are being unreasonable! I as well as others have pointed out how strict schools are in the UK when it comes to absences - authorised or not. The OP is entitled to book her wedding when she wants. But -she has to expect that people might not always be able to fall in with their plans. I am sure the SiL and her family would love to attend the wedding, but the children will be a problem as she will find it difficult to take them out of school.

The OP and her SiL are between a rock and a hard place. I think a resolution can be found, but they need to talk.

Sister stonewalling brother because he won't get married on a day that suits her? Perfectly reasonable!

GingerLily

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Very unfair" is a huge overstatement. The date is set for the wedding as suits the requirements of the couple getting married. If that doesn't suit everyone, it's not "unfair" it's unfortunate.

And what's the big deal about babysitting? Jesus, weren't we all babysat once?

I don't feel you read my post correctly, i said it was unfair to expect them to attend.
You also ignored the reasons I stated that made this situation more then just a babysitter for a few hours on a Friday night.
I've just gotten married myself and went through this whole process and you definitely are better off being understanding to your guests, whether they can attend or not.

I'm trying to give genuine advice that I feel will benefit the OP in the long run, I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, but it's beneficial for her to hear a range of opinions so she approaches the situation as prepared as she can be.

SusieBlue

lazybones32 wrote: »

Sister stonewalling brother because he won't get married on a day that suits her? Perfectly reasonable!

Its not a case of the day not suiting her, its a case of her being unable to bring the child abroad on a week day and during the school term. Its not like she doesn't feel like coming to Ireland that day or has a hair appointment, she has a very valid reason for the day not being suitable.
Of course the OP is fully entitled to tell her to sling her hook, but at the same time he can't be annoyed she isn't attending.

GingerLily

GingerLily wrote: »

I don't feel you read my post correctly, i said it was unfair to expect them to attend.
You also ignored the reasons I stated that made this situation more then just a babysitter for a few hours on a Friday night.
I've just gotten married myself and went through this whole process and you definitely are better off being understanding to your guests, whether they can attend or not.

I'm trying to give genuine advice that I feel will benefit the OP in the long run, I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, but it's beneficial for her to hear a range of opinions so she approaches the situation as prepared as she can be.

Sorry if that came across too harsh. Not the intention. We're all allowed give our views, obviously.

I did read your post! I think we're coming at it with different priorities, maybe. I don't think a wedding should be organised around anybody but the couple. Babysitting- and yes even for a few days- comes with parenting. Weddings and similar events don't come around that often but if people find that for them childcare arrangements make these things an impossibility then fair enough- but getting frustrated at those organising the events is unfair.

I take your point that getting upset if people can't come is likewise counterproductive, but I amn't getting that impression from the OP at all, though she has said that her OH wasn't impressed.

kylith

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Babysitting?! The mum would be leaving the child for a minimum of 2 nights while she goes to a foreign country to a wedding, its not like its only for a couple of hours.
And in this day in age you'd be hard pushed to not only find someone willing to mind the child for that long, but to find someone trustable. I'm sure many parents wouldn't want to go abroad leaving their child with a "babysitter" for that long.

Its very unfair to be put out that the sister isn't coming when the circumstances of the wedding make it nearly impossible to do so.

The child presumably has a father, and grandparents on its father's side.

GingerLily

kylith wrote: »

The child presumably has a father, and grandparents on its father's side.

That's a big presumption to make, I would think the OP would have mentioned it if it were the case.

LegacyUser

OP as many have pointed out taking kids out of school in the UK even for a day is a royal pain. People have gone to court over it so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss your sister in law for that. Even if that weren't the case you will always have this issue when having a wedding, it's never going to suit everyone. It sounds less like the sister is throwing a fit and more the mother is and I can understand her wanting all her kids together as weddings are often the few times you get all of your family together and can get photos etc but at the end of the day you are not going to be able to accommodate everyone. Close family we do tend to make the effort to accommodate but it's just not always possible.

I would suggest looking at having a small party in the UK at some point after the wedding. My cousin got married in Scotland and we have a very large family but only handful could make the trip over so he organized a party in our home town 2 months later so everyone who couldn't make the wedding got to celebrate. It was like a mini afters, he organized some food, had a limited free bar and eve hired a photographer. People didn't go full wedding outfit but they got dressed up and he got some great family photos to add to the wedding photos. Is this an option? I'm sure the sister isn't the only family member or friend who can't make it.

Thestones

GingerLily wrote: »

That's a big presumption to make, I would think the OP would have mentioned it if it were the case.

Also alot of grandparents wouldn't be able for overnight babysitting, I wonder all these people commenting on how easy it is to get a babysitter, do they actually have children. As a parent of two young kids even to get out for a night out for a few hours requires serious organisation, can't imagine the stress trying to arrange to go to another country and who would mind them!

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GingerLily

....... wrote: »

So do you then expect people only to organise things to suit you and your limitations?

Lol, where did they say that?

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GingerLily

....... wrote: »

Well that is exactly the point I am making - they didnt say it. Im sure they do not have that expectation - nor should anyone.

So the SIL should not be expecting it to be changed just to suit her limitations due to her having a child - thats her own choice.

Everybody cant suddenly only hold events she is invited to on dates that suit her childs schooling.

Is the SIL expecting them to change? Sounds more like the grooms parents have the issue...

bee06

....... wrote: »

Well that is exactly the point I am making - they didnt say it. Im sure they do not have that expectation - nor should anyone.

So the SIL should not be expecting it to be changed just to suit her limitations due to her having a child - thats her own choice.

Everybody cant suddenly only hold events she is invited to on dates that suit her childs schooling.

I wouldn't expect everybody to take guest's children into account however I would have thought it was reasonable to take immediate family into account if you actually wanted them to attend? That's what my husband and I did when we got married.

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GingerLily

....... wrote: »

She is the one stonewalling so Id imagine so.

And I "imagine" that she's upset she can't make it and doesn't feel particularly pushed talking to her brother who doesn't seemed fussed having her or her child there.

sashafierce

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bee06

....... wrote: »

If that means then only holding the wedding during the sisters kids school holidays then I think it is unreasonable to expect them to organise their entire wedding based on that.

Im sure the sister could find a way to attend if she really wanted to.

An easy way to mitigate hurt feelings if it wasn't possible would be a chat with the sister before they booked explaining the situation. Obviously they didn't realise the strict school requirements before booking so now I'm sure explaining that to the sister would also be welcome. An attitude of "it's my wedding, I can do what I want" gets no-one anywhere.