Budget 2018

whelan2

I must be living under a rock, only found out this morning its on today, so any idea what will be in it?

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

I must be living under a rock, only found out this morning its on today, so any idea what will be in it?

I think mortgage relief is being reduced anyways. The independent reported that this am

noworries2004

Stamp duty increasing to 5% possibly. Bad news for parents transferring farms to kids.

kerry cow

Lucky you ,it's only bog oak rocks around here .

alps

noworries2004 wrote: »

Stamp duty increasing to 5% possibly. Bad news for parents transferring farms to kids.

Or bad news for kids getting a farm from parents...

wiggy123

money for folk who don't work, and the rest of us-will pay for it.. so normal budgets

gr8 m8

Did I hear correctly that the disadvantaged payments might be changed? Just someone in work said it in passing so I have no more information about it.

lakill Farm

noworries2004 wrote: »

Stamp duty increasing to 5% possibly. Bad news for parents transferring farms to kids.

Why? 2 ways to be exempt. Transfer on death (inheritance ) and is kid has green cert. both exempt from stamp duty

5% is rumoured to be commercial property only

Buford T. Justice XIX

200 euro increase in self-employed tax credit supposedly. After accepting that self employed weren't being treated fairly, they decide to wait another year or two to bring equality.

To paraphrase St Augustine, let us be equal but not yet:mad:

noworries2004

"Why? 2 ways to be exempt. Transfer on death (inheritance ) and is kid has green cert. both exempt from stamp duty"
Age limit on it parents have to be 67 years or younger.....
http://www.revenue.ie/en/property/stamp-duty/working-out-your-stamp-duty/consanguinity-relief.aspx
Consanguinity Relief
This relief only applies to land transfers. You will only qualify for the relief:

[*]if the person who transfers the land to you is under 67 years of age at the date they transfer the land
or
[*]where there are co-owners of the land, if they are all under 67
and
[*]where you and the person who transfers the land to you are related persons.

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

Why? 2 ways to be exempt. Transfer on death (inheritance ) and is kid has green cert. both exempt from stamp duty

5% is rumoured to be commercial property only

Some will be caught.

Consanguinity relief is not - I think - available if the parent is over 67 and the young trained farmer exceptions aren't much good to anyone over 35.

Consider the case of an active farmer in his forties inheriting from a parent in their 80's or 90's

Those who waited longest get least!

lakill Farm

Don't shoot the messenger.

I was answering the rumour of 5% stamp duty on farm land.

Agri relief is fairly generious. Lads will still complain after getting 3.25m worth of assets tax free because they can't line up the eggs at home due to one thing or another.

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

Don't shoot the messenger.

I was answering the rumour of 5% stamp duty on farm land.

Agri relief is fairly generious. Lads will still complain after getting 3.25m worth of assets tax free because they can't line up the eggs at home due to one thing or another.

I'm not shooting the messenger!

Irritating little twist that, though. 2% or 1% was low enough that many wouldn't have deliberately planned around it.

6% is just a punishment for forgetting to tax plan aggressively.

lakill Farm

kowtow wrote: »

I'm not shooting the messenger!

Irritating little twist that, though. 2% or 1% was low enough that many wouldn't have deliberately planned around it.

6% is just a punishment for forgetting to tax plan aggressively.

Ill have a read of the budget later and see what is the story

No stamp duty on inheritance. so wait till its passed in a will

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

No stamp duty on inheritance. so wait till its passed in a will

Good point.

cute geoge

I got caught for stamp duty on farm transfer from parents back in 2011 because i was over 35 .I gave full whack anyway at the time as far as i remember about 9k for 30 acres .So talk is cheap and it will affect alot of farm transfers

Sam Kade

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Did I hear correctly that the disadvantaged payments might be changed? Just someone in work said it in passing so I have no more information about it.

Old news, next year you can wave good bye to you payment if your land doesn't qualify. They'll be reclassifying land so you can be sure they will abandon a lot of land to reduce payments.

jooksavage

Think the stamp duty hike will not apply to farms:

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/budget-2018-the-key-measures-hitting-farmers-pockets-314871

"Although Minister Donohoe announced that stamp duty on sales of commercial property would increase from 2% to 6% from midnight tonight, Minister for Agriculture Michael Creed later clarified that agricultural land would be taken out of this category."

jooksavage

Anyone confirm this? I'm in the process of transferring a farm - will be complete in the coming week before I turn 35. I am finishing a green cert and hope to claw back the stamp duty next year. I can just about cover the 2% stamp duty with savings but there's no way I can stretch to 6%. Spoke with my bank relationship manager and he said he'd be sceptical if they'd be able to get a bridge loan in place for that sum within 10 days.

Here's hoping it stays at 2%! :pac:

Dunedin

Didn't get to study the budget in full detail yet but on first glance, didn't see anything for us?

Did I miss anything.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dunedin wrote: »

Didn't get to study the budget in full detail yet but on first glance, didn't see anything for us?

Did I miss anything.

I merged your thread with this one, Dunedin.

A brief summary from the Journal.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057795938

A 200 euro increase in self employed tax credit.
A new low-cost loan scheme for farmers
An increase of 64m in the Dept of Ag budget, most of which will be returned unused. Again.
Stamp duty on farms to stay the same but not certain.
Land leased for solar will be elegible for agricultural relief.
Reductions on USC and a slight increase in tax bands.

Hurling Hereford

wiggy123 wrote: »

money for folk who don't work, and the rest of us-will pay for it.. so normal budgets

Some people are not in a position to work due to illness etc. Be thankful for your health & don't begrudge people who are unable to work

john mayo 10

So does the 1% consanguinity relief still apply to family transfers of farms. Currently in the process of getting farm transfered from dad to me. His 67th birthday is in December.

noworries2004

1% consanguity relief should be in place till end of this year. Take my word for it and get it done asap because solicitors etc can be a pain and drag it out. Mark it as urgent and get it done
Just completed signing yesterday and will get caught for 2% Stamp duty...

whelan2

12 euro now for a pack of cigarettes :eek:

lakill Farm

whelan2 wrote: »

12 euro now for a pack of cigarettes :eek:

And price of a bottle of lucozade and can of red bull going up.

Well that will f.ck up silage season more than rain

Reggie.

lakill Farm wrote: »

And price of a bottle of lucozade and can of red bull going up.

Well that will f.ck up silage season more than rain

You could do with less of that stuff sunshine. A 2lt bottle of water would stand ya better

jfh

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

Some people are not in a position to work due to illness etc. Be thankful for your health & don't begrudge people who are unable to work

maybe he's has a point, there's no way there's over 6% of the population not working due to ill health?

so much for leo and his early riser crap, it's the people who are rushing from pillar to post, both spouses working, paying exorbitant creche fees that are keeping this country going.

having worked abroad for a couple of years, i've never seen such entitlement as exists in this country.
rant over, better get back to work:mad:

Buford T. Justice XIX

It looks like the increase in Stamp Duty will apply to farmland sales.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/stamp-duty-hike-to-cost-farmers-12m-fitzmaurice-36217372.html

kowtow

whelan2 wrote:

12 euro now for a pack of cigarettes

Always makes me want to smoke more when the tax goes up.

F##ck 'em.

jooksavage

cute geoge wrote: »

I got caught for stamp duty on farm transfer from parents back in 2011 because i was over 35 .I gave full whack anyway at the time as far as i remember about 9k for 30 acres .So talk is cheap and it will affect alot of farm transfers

It's f**ked me. I have the transfer documents in front of me. Turn 35 next week. I finished my green cert but that won't be awarded until next Feb or Mar. Was all set up to pay 2% sum (about 20k) and claw it back upon receipt of qualification. Now I'm looking at an unpayable 60K+ stamp duty bill. There goes the transfer.

Thanks Fine Gael.

FeelTheBern

jooksavage wrote: »

cute geoge wrote: »

I got caught for stamp duty on farm transfer from parents back in 2011 because i was over 35 .I gave full whack anyway at the time as far as i remember about 9k for 30 acres .So talk is cheap and it will affect alot of farm transfers

It's f**ked me. I have the transfer documents in front of me. Turn 35 next week. I finished my green cert but that won't be awarded until next Feb or Mar. Was all set up to pay 2% sum (about 20k) and claw it back upon receipt of qualification. Now I'm looking at an unpayable 60K+ stamp duty bill. There goes the transfer.

Thanks Fine Gael.[/quote

Are you talking about land you're buying or getting a gift of from an unrelated party or land you're getting transferred to you from your parents?

whelan2

kowtow wrote: »

Always makes me want to smoke more when the tax goes up.

F##ck 'em.

Woman who cleans the house here smokes. She asked me to get her a pack of cigarettes in the shop. Youngest lad came with me. I bought the cigarettes. He didn't know what they were. Isn't it mad that at 9years of age that he didn't know. We were brought up with people smoking around us

kowtow

whelan2 wrote: »

Woman who cleans the house here smokes. She asked me to get her a pack of cigarettes in the shop. Youngest lad came with me. I bought the cigarettes. He didn't know what they were. Isn't it mad that at 9years of age that he didn't know. We were brought up with people smoking around us

I think mine have figured it out judging by the dockets from the Creamery.

You'd think they'd have the wit to buy the same brand me. I don't know what to be annoyed by first, the occasional smoking, the dishonesty, or the fact that they haven't got the brains they were born with.

Hurling Hereford

jfh wrote: »

maybe he's has a point, there's no way there's over 6% of the population not working due to ill health?

so much for leo and his early riser crap, it's the people who are rushing from pillar to post, both spouses working, paying exorbitant creche fees that are keeping this country going.

having worked abroad for a couple of years, i've never seen such entitlement as exists in this country.
rant over, better get back to work:mad:

And even us poor farmers think we should be entitled to more than an other existing E.U. country. SHOW ME THE MONEY, Lol!

kollegeknight

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It looks like the increase in Stamp Duty will apply to farmland sales.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/stamp-duty-hike-to-cost-farmers-12m-fitzmaurice-36217372.html

Balls- the brother has been dragging his heals about the transfer of the land. Now it has to happen this year as i'm 35 next September. The land is worth €220k so i wasn't over pushed to do the course over €4400 stamp duty but now will definitely have to do it for €13200. Not to mention having to pay it upfront and recoup it back.

Who2

Have lads had these figures checked out? Some must have fairly big farms with the kind of figures quoted above. Could lakill or someone in the know break it down into simple lay mans terms for me. Say what would the cost s be, associated say on an average beef farm being transferred to someone under 35 with a green cert and then to someone over 35. I'd presume the solicitor fees would amount to 3-4K ( between parents and spouses) would another 4-5 k not cover the costs on a 80 or 90 acre farm?

Wildsurfer

http://www.revenue.ie/en/property/stamp-duty/working-out-your-stamp-duty/consanguinity-relief.aspx
Can't see any mention of having to be under 35 to qualify for this relief?

Wildsurfer

Who2 wrote: »

Have lads had these figures checked out? Some must have fairly big farms with the kind of figures quoted above. Could lakill or someone in the know break it down into simple lay mans terms for me. Say what would the cost s be, associated say on an average beef farm being transferred to someone under 35 with a green cert and then to someone over 35. I'd presume the solicitor fees would amount to 3-4K ( between parents and spouses) would another 4-5 k not cover the costs on a 80 or 90 acre farm?

It is to do with the increase in stamp duty in budget from 2% to 6% so on a farm worth 500K its going from stamp duty of 10k to 30k unless you qualify for consanguinity relief which is only 1% ie 5k.

kowtow

Wildsurfer wrote:

Can't see any mention of having to be under 35 to qualify for this relief?

No, donor has to be under 67 though.

john mayo 10

Still a lot of confusion out there. Seems that the 1% consanguinity relief stays till the end of the year anyway or will they rise that to 3% in line with the 6% rise?

Brown Podzol

wiggy123 wrote: »

money for folk who don't work, and the rest of us-will pay for it.. so normal budgets

The poverty industry seems to be in rude good health.

jooksavage

kollegeknight wrote: »

Balls- the brother has been dragging his heals about the transfer of the land. Now it has to happen this year as i'm 35 next September. The land is worth €220k so i wasn't over pushed to do the course over €4400 stamp duty but now will definitely have to do it for €13200. Not to mention having to pay it upfront and recoup it back.

Do you have a green cert? If so you should be exempt from the stamp duty as long as you're under 35. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as me.

The IFA are meeting this morning and stamp duty is their top priority. Healy has already demanded that Minister Creed keeps his word and honors his Tuesday assertions that stamp duty would not apply to farmland. His subsequent claim (i.e. MASSIVE WALK-BACK) that the vast majority of land sales were covered by existing reliefs is also complete nonsense. The Journal looked at Revenues figures and the majority of 2016 transfers could not take advantage of reliefs.

The Journal is claiming that the Minister wasn't aware that farmland was subject to the stamp duty increase. One would have to question the competence of any government minister that chairs a press conference on budget day in complete ignorance of how the central plank of the same budget affects his department.

Minister Creed can either push for a rollback or he can face the consequences from farmers.

JeffKenna

jooksavage wrote: »

Do you have a green cert? If so you should be exempt from the stamp duty as long as you're under 35. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as me.

The IFA are meeting this morning and stamp duty is their top priority. Healy has already demanded that Minister Creed keeps his word and honors his Tuesday assertions that stamp duty would not apply to farmland. His subsequent claim (i.e. MASSIVE WALK-BACK) that the vast majority of land sales were covered by existing reliefs is also complete nonsense. The Journal looked at Revenues figures and the majority of 2016 transfers could not take advantage of reliefs.

The Journal is claiming that the Minister wasn't aware that farmland was subject to the stamp duty increase. One would have to question the competence of any government minister that chairs a press conference on budget day in complete ignorance of how the central plank of the same budget affects his department.

Minister Creed can either push for a rollback or he can face the consequences from farmers.

Must say I'm very disappointed with Creed. Did he actually understand what was happening when he made his speech in the Dail??

Wildsurfer

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Still a lot of confusion out there. Seems that the 1% consanguinity relief stays till the end of the year anyway or will they rise that to 3% in line with the 6% rise?

He announced in this weeks budget that Consanguinity relief is being maintained for a further 3 years

Panch18

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

And even us poor farmers think we should be entitled to more than an other existing E.U. country. SHOW ME THE MONEY, Lol!

Ah here now - would you ever wake up

kollegeknight

jooksavage wrote: »

Do you have a green cert? If so you should be exempt from the stamp duty as long as you're under 35. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as me.

The IFA are meeting this morning and stamp duty is their top priority. Healy has already demanded that Minister Creed keeps his word and honors his Tuesday assertions that stamp duty would not apply to farmland. His subsequent claim (i.e. MASSIVE WALK-BACK) that the vast majority of land sales were covered by existing reliefs is also complete nonsense. The Journal looked at Revenues figures and the majority of 2016 transfers could not take advantage of reliefs.

The Journal is claiming that the Minister wasn't aware that farmland was subject to the stamp duty increase. One would have to question the competence of any government minister that chairs a press conference on budget day in complete ignorance of how the central plank of the same budget affects his department.

Minister Creed can either push for a rollback or he can face the consequences from farmers.

No Green Cert. Was not going to bother with it as am mental busy and it would only save me 4k. All our sheds are built etc.

Plan now would be to sign up for a green cert (distance learning) and recoup the money upon qualification. but that would still be 13k tied up.

jooksavage

kollegeknight wrote: »

No Green Cert. Was not going to bother with it as am mental busy and it would only save me 4k. All our sheds are built etc.

Plan now would be to sign up for a green cert (distance learning) and recoup the money upon qualification. but that would still be 13k tied up.

It's a nice whack of money but if you could get loan at a reasonable interest rate it mightn't be too bad. Just bear in mind what type of GC course you pick. I'm full-time employed so I picked an 18 month distance learning course: the course itself was 18 months but was close to 2 years from start date before the cert was awarded.

jooksavage

JeffKenna wrote: »

Must say I'm very disappointed with Creed. Did he actually understand what was happening when he made his speech in the Dail??

The FJ is claiming that he actually DIDN'T KNOW when he sat down in front of the press. That is an astounding level of incompetence if true.

His line now is most that transactions are covered with existing reliefs so it doesn't really matter. Wrong again. FJ say most land transfer in 2016 could not avail of reliefs.

Buford T. Justice XIX

jooksavage wrote: »

The FJ is claiming that he actually DIDN'T KNOW when he sat down in front of the press. That is an astounding level of incompetence if true.

His line now is most that transactions are covered with existing reliefs so it doesn't really matter. Wrong again. FJ say most land transfer in 2016 could not avail of reliefs.

One thing to keep in mind as regards the Ministers is their briefing comes from their staff in the civil service. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they weren't in any way aware of this 'oversight and briefed the minister as such.

jooksavage

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind as regards the Ministers is their briefing comes from their staff in the civil service. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they weren't in any way aware of this 'oversight and briefed the minister as such.

That is true. In all fairness though, the one huge tax item in this budget was a 4% hike in stamp duty on commercial property. To me it's inconceivable that a senior government minister wouldn't have asked his cabinet colleague, the Minister for Finance, if it affected his department.

However, mistakes happen. What I find even more galling is the Minister's insistence that it doesn't really matter because most transfers were covered by existing reliefs anyway. That's incorrect. The FJ found that most transfers in 2016 weren't able to avail of relief. Minister Creed should already know this - it only took Pat O'Toole a few hours to find out. Instead he made ANOTHER assertion that had no basis in reality.