Inheritance / farm transfer

naughto

Have any of ye actually thought about jacking the lot in?
If your kids have no interest in taking over it's happening to a few farms near me now these are just part time as they all have full time jobs as there main income.

carrollsno1

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Some would try say beef/sheep/tillage is the same in Ireland.

Even though im heading down the road of dairying myself because its what i like and will leave me with a better lifestyle and money hopefully, i hate when dairy farmers assume every other farmer should get into cows. I listened to a lad before who was asked at a personality competition if he had 3 wishes what would they be, one of them was a 1000 cow farm, the other was cheap labour. A tillage farmer(know him reasonably well myself doesnt need to milk cows is fairly comfortable) who was judging asked him what was his obsession with renting tillage ground, he said oh its all down to money. Money for me and money for the tillage farmer, grass to cash etc. He was stunned when the judge responded but what if by chance im happy being a sunshine farmer? No answer for it only that oh but its the right thing to do etc. Needless to say he didnt win! Another question asked was what did he look for in a future partner? Oh shed have to be able to feed calves he says!
A few of us were talking afterwards and all we could say is what a di#khead! And what in the nane of god would you want 1000 cows for when you live comfortably off of less.
IMO id like to have a herd around 200 cows 1 man operation with relief milker and seasonal help at calving and have other farmers around me doing whatever type of farming they want and would be happy to stop and chat if i met them on the road.
Some of this new generation of dairy farmers are absolute ar$eholes who want to have all the cows in the world and not milk a single one
#rantover #

carrollsno1

naughto wrote: »

Have any of ye actually thought about jacking the lot in?
If your kids have no interest in taking over it's happening to a few farms near me now these are just part time as they all have full time jobs as there main income.

See a lot of similar situations close enough to home and id say one of my own neighbours (dairy farmers) looking over the ditch saying sure that young lad will hardly bother with at home.
You wouldnt believe how few young farmers there is coming through in my locality especially full time ones. Main reasons are the motorway has us closer to dublin and waterford for lads who want to work there and live close to home, they saw their fathers get black hardship growing up and that farming wasnt fashionable 10-15 years ago.
I can see opportunities for myself in the area, would be a win win for both parties if i could lease a farm i.e. i get to farm and the retiring farmer can see his farm being worked everyday and can still show an interest and be getting a tax free lump sum every year

naughto

Ya can't really blame any young lad/lady for not getting in to it thought it's bloody hard work for little return bar the joy of farming.
With so many opportunities in education these days you would have to think there are better ways of making a living and not being up to your balls in debt with the bank as a lot of young farmers i no are.
But that's there choice I sapose.

rangler1

carrollsno1 wrote: »

See a lot of similar situations close enough to home and id say one of my own neighbours (dairy farmers) looking over the ditch saying sure that young lad will hardly bother with at home.
You wouldnt believe how few young farmers there is coming through in my locality especially full time ones. Main reasons are the motorway has us closer to dublin and waterford for lads who want to work there and live close to home, they saw their fathers get black hardship growing up and that farming wasnt fashionable 10-15 years ago.
I can see opportunities for myself in the area, would be a win win for both parties if i could lease a farm i.e. i get to farm and the retiring farmer can see his farm being worked everyday and can still show an interest and be getting a tax free lump sum every year

Yea it gave me a reality check in the spring when I was trying to rent out some of my land, a dairy farmer came into the fray and just kept going, pity I hadn't someone to push him......looking forward to renting out the rest now.
I suppose I'm taking advantage now of the the conditions that were robbing me trying to rent land over the years.
As for taking an interest, I regard a ten year lease as the same as selling it, not really fair to be sticking in your tuppence worth.....let them off

Just edited to say it still won't make what's being quoted on here for land

lakill Farm

rangler1 wrote: »

Yea it gave me a reality check in the spring when I was trying to rent out some of my land, a dairy farmer came into the fray and just kept going, pity I hadn't someone to push him......looking forward to renting out the rest now.
I suppose I'm taking advantage now of the the conditions that were robbing me trying to rent land over the years.
As for taking an interest, I regard a ten year lease as the same as selling it, not really fair to be sticking in your tuppence worth.....let them off

Just edited to say it still won't make what's being quoted on here for land

Land hard got my side of county

Reggie.

naughto wrote: »

Have any of ye actually thought about jacking the lot in?
If your kids have no interest in taking over it's happening to a few farms near me now these are just part time as they all have full time jobs as there main income.

What I notice around here is young people are being pushed out from the farm. Parents are reluctant to give over any type of decision making to the children. As a result no interest from the children and they move on disillusioned about farming in thier youth.

Then the bitching/complaining starts with the parents that the children have abandoned the farm and never around to help when upto that point they were treated as slave labour. I unfortunately have seen this around me and experienced it myself. It's a pity as I love farming and the life it brings.

The current generation seem to think they have to hold onto the farm till thier last breath and any attempt at help is either not appreciated or seen as some evil plan to prise the farm from them. Never can understand the fascination of the older generation towards having to own land. Real life "the field" played out on a daily basis around here.

Thankfully I see lots of farms too where the handover is done when the parents are young enough to still enjoy life and be involved with the farm when it suits and also the drive is still with the successor with youth and interest on thier side.

Right that's my rant over.

patsy_mccabe

You dead right Reggie. The older generation would drag the land down into the grave with them if they could. The sad thing is its the decent child that sticks around to help out and theyre the ones treated like dirt. When the prodigal son or daughter comes around the place, they're the ones treated like royalty.

Muckit

Our old national school teacher used always preach (excuse the poor irish) 'mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad.' Praise the youth and they will come.

My oul lad for all his faults would let me off with my ideas even when they weren't to his liking. He also knew when to let go of the reins. I'd have no problem doing the same when time comes. My only reason to get in way of succession would be to make sure they know the full realisation of hardships and responsibilities for little reward.

Nekarsulm

Too many lads should have had this epigraph;

Now at last,
Oh glory be,
I own my land, six feet by three.
Through death I got my life's desire,
To be an owner-occupier!

Reggie.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You dead right Reggie. The older generation would drag the land down into the grave with them if they could. The sad thing is its the decent child that sticks around to help out and theyre the ones treated like dirt. When the prodigal son or daughter comes around the place, they're the ones treated like royalty.

I see plenty of both types of farms when out contracting. I love going into a place that the son and father are working in "mostly" harmony. It's refreshing to see the future in front of ya.

The opposite could be said for the other types of farm. Very old farmers that have badly run down places and the children constantly scorn at. You know well either the children will have no life and pure hardship or head off away from the land when the camals back is finally broke.

rangler1

Reggie. wrote: »

I see plenty of both types of farms when out contracting. I love going into a place that the son and father are working in "mostly" harmony. It's refreshing to see the future in front of ya.

The opposite could be said for the other types of farm. Very old farmers that have badly run down places and the children constantly scorn at. You know well either the children will have no life and pure hardship or head off away from the land when the camals back is finally broke.

Yea, hate to hear a father give out publicly about his son/daughters farming,it smacks of jealousy, why can't they just advise and f...off.
Have to say we considered every alternative here and there was no simple solution, young people are well clued in now and those capable of running a farm would be handicapped by giving them a farm......great incomes and futures out there for young people prepared to work and show loyalty to their employer/place of work

MeTheMan

Described above is the exact situation I'm in. Have been helping on the farm since I could walk. Now that I'm 27 I'm still at it. Only got my first few sheep last year. And all that has done is given the ole lad a reason to have me there more often. 'Your sheep has maggots.' 'Your sheep has sore hoofs'. ' Your sheep got in the wrong field'. 9 times out of 10 it isnt even one of my sheep. The reward ill get for all this? What ever profit the lambs make. All 54 of them.
I always remember in national school. I was about 7 or 8 and a fella in the class below me talking about his 3 ewes and how he sold the 5 lambs and made 200 pounds. I was amazed at this. I thought some day dad will give me a few sheep. Little did I think I'd be wait nearly 20 years.

I'm unemployed at the minute and moving away would be my best hope of employment. But I just love where I live. Why? I don't know. By all accounts its an absolute **** hole. But its my **** hole. Farming seems like the best way an uneducated (no degree) person like myself could live here. I very much enjoy the farming and if possible I try to do things with the sheep myself. It's quicker and more straight forward most the time. he's not the easiest to work with.
I have so many ideas of what to do with land and stock and help improve efficiency but they are all closed down because he controls the finances. I don't wonder would I be better off financialy getting a job else where, I know I would. But mentally and physically I wouldn't.

To end it all off I don't even know will it be left to me. That disscussion was never had. I'm the only one of my siblings to help on the farm. But, stranger this have happened.

Limestone Cowboy

Maybe it's worth a thread of its own but ye got me wondering what age did ye take over the farm lads? 27 here now and have everything in my name, auld fella in fairness to him leaves me to do my own thing. Had been pretty much doing everything since I was 20 anyway so it wasn't a huge jump I guess.

Reggie.

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Maybe it's worth a thread of its own but ye got me wondering what age did ye take over the farm lads? 27 here now and have everything in my name, auld fella in fairness to him leaves me to do my own thing. Had been pretty much doing everything since I was 20 anyway so it wasn't a huge jump I guess.

Your one of the few I suspect. Maybe the mods can split up the thread

patsy_mccabe

Ya deffo worth a new thread.

rangler1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Maybe it's worth a thread of its own but ye got me wondering what age did ye take over the farm lads? 27 here now and have everything in my name, auld fella in fairness to him leaves me to do my own thing. Had been pretty much doing everything since I was 20 anyway so it wasn't a huge jump I guess.

23 here, just had it in my name when my father got a stroke so had neither help nor advice from the start

whelan2

Young lad is 16. He has 14 calves, a pedigree Angus heifer and calf. Gets paid. Has his say in things. My dad was similar with me.

Bullocks

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Maybe it's worth a thread of its own but ye got me wondering what age did ye take over the farm lads? 27 here now and have everything in my name, auld fella in fairness to him leaves me to do my own thing. Had been pretty much doing everything since I was 20 anyway so it wasn't a huge jump I guess.

Well worth a thread of its own . 34 here and no farm in my name but TBH I don't think the signing over is that important so long as I can farm away which I'm doing for the last few years but all in pops name . He did give me some land when I was younger and that used up my inheritance threshold so I'm doing the green cert now and we will see what happens after that but considering maybe give it to my young lads in time instead of me (I've a brother that will get a bit of the farm aswell )

Another thread I was thinking of was to see did ye get much advice from the previous generation with regards how to make a twist from farming , making wise investments and general tips about making life easier on a farm . My father never gave me any advice or guided me one way or the other (I was too stubborn to listen anyhow )
But now I have my own young lads I like helping them out and showing them easier / smarter ways to think about farming without overpowering them of course

MF290

whelan2 wrote: »

Young lad is 16. He has 14 calves, a pedigree Angus heifer and calf. Gets paid. Has his say in things. My dad was similar with me.

Would you ever consider adopting a son

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

Well worth a thread of its own . 34 here and no farm in my name but TBH I don't think the signing over is that important so long as I can farm away which I'm doing for the last few years but all in pops name . He did give me some land when I was younger and that used up my inheritance threshold so I'm doing the green cert now and we will see what happens after that but considering maybe give it to my young lads in time instead of me (I've a brother that will get a bit of the farm aswell )

Another thread I was thinking of was to see did ye get much advice from the previous generation with regards how to make a twist from farming , making wise investments and general tips about making life easier on a farm . My father never gave me any advice or guided me one way or the other (I was too stubborn to listen anyhow )
But now I have my own young lads I like helping them out and showing them easier / smarter ways to think about farming without overpowering them of course

Your inheritance threshold from your father would be over €3m worth of land, so you're either mistaken or wealthy

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

Your inheritance threshold from your father would be over €3m worth of land, so you're either mistaken or wealthy

We are close to the city and valued very high by revenue at the height of the boom . Probably wealthy land wise

carrollsno1

Bullocks wrote: »

Well worth a thread of its own . 34 here and no farm in my name but TBH I don't think the signing over is that important so long as I can farm away which I'm doing for the last few years but all in pops name . He did give me some land when I was younger and that used up my inheritance threshold so I'm doing the green cert now and we will see what happens after that but considering maybe give it to my young lads in time instead of me (I've a brother that will get a bit of the farm aswell )

Another thread I was thinking of was to see did ye get much advice from the previous generation with regards how to make a twist from farming , making wise investments and general tips about making life easier on a farm . My father never gave me any advice or guided me one way or the other (I was too stubborn to listen anyhow )
But now I have my own young lads I like helping them out and showing them easier / smarter ways to think about farming without overpowering them of course

Regards advice only bit i can think of off my grandfather was, oh dont listen to them experts, youll go broke having cattle out early in the spring, better keep them in until the end of april if you have too and out as late as possible. Pride gets you nowhere he told me, broke his heart after he realised those two fine calves i had were jersey crosses and that id be left with more with them than a charolais suckler he was sickened when i said they were jex. Oh dont spread any fertiliser on the land thats sure to break you, and dont spread the slurry until august when the nutrient value has dropped.and as regards making life easy i saw enough pricking around with self feeding silage (absolute hatred for it, even worked on a place where it was done right and bales are still easier), drawing cattle or walking them to new fields the whole time and a **** water system in place. Ive not been shown how to make life simple for myself but by god i wasnt long about learning myself. If i got the chance i would love to set the field at his house in beet and graze it over the winter just to show to him theres big changes going on here and it wouldnt be charolais that would be grazing it either it would be the poor mans cattle on it obviously

emaherx

whelan2 wrote: »

Young lad is 16. He has 14 calves, a pedigree Angus heifer and calf. Gets paid. Has his say in things. My dad was similar with me.

Sounds like the Whelan household know how to do things.

Reggie.

emaherx wrote: »

Sounds like the Whelan household know how to do things.

Agreed

davidk1394

whelan2 wrote: »

Young lad is 16. He has 14 calves, a pedigree Angus heifer and calf. Gets paid. Has his say in things. My dad was similar with me.

Had the same up bringing myself. We're going towards a partnership in the next 2 years and go from there

Hard Knocks

emaherx wrote: »

Sounds like the Whelan household know how to do things.

Fair play to them.
Kids have their own stock here, which will go towards College.
I dread any parent that has to choose from good prospects

Reggie.

davidk1394 wrote: »

Had the same up bringing myself. We're going towards a partnership in the next 2 years and go from there

Thought you were heading off

whelan2

emaherx wrote: »

Sounds like the Whelan household know how to do things.

I am very lucky. Alot of farmers wouldn't sign their farm to their daughter ever. Also lucky that it was signed over early enough.

Cran

whelan2 wrote: »

I am very lucky. Alot of farmers wouldn't sign their farm to their daughter ever. Also lucky that it was signed over early enough.

Father told me a story of fella he used to do hire work for in the 50s yesterday. Big farm and they had no children, he said everyone used to say to him if only you had a boy to hand over to. Said to dad one day, when they say it all I think is if only we had a little girl.

emaherx

whelan2 wrote: »

I am very lucky. Alot of farmers wouldn't sign their farm to their daughter ever. Also lucky that it was signed over early enough.

That's so very true, but any farmer should be proud to hand over their farm to a daughter like you. How many daughters have been passed over in favour of lads with no interest?

tomwaterford

I'm rather unusual in that my da was pure delighted to had over running etc of it to me at 20/21 same as his dad before him (have fcuk all in way if entitlements as he had a huge heart attack year before it and cut numbers hugely)so it's been a rough few years trying to make money for myself aswell as invest in upgrading fencing etc

It'll never be full time Like and he was good enough to look after it for 12 months while I went travelling as I was mentally not in a great place and needed out of ireland/break from everything .


....but I'm in somewhat of an awkward position of now having an option of a fantastic job offer aboard (work/save for year/2 and be mortgage free) as I'm at an age where I want to buy/build and I'll never earn enough here to do it without returning to college

Reggie.

emaherx wrote: »

That's so very true, but any farmer should be proud to hand over their farm to a daughter like you. How many daughters have been passed over in favour of lads with no interest?

Or the eldest that ****ed off and comes back after the funeral for the will

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

I'm rather unusual in that my da was pure delighted to had over running etc of it to me at 20/21 same as his dad before him (have fcuk all in way if entitlements as he had a huge heart attack year before it and cut numbers hugely)so it's been a rough few years trying to make money for myself aswell as invest in upgrading fencing etc

It'll never be full time Like and he was good enough to look after it for 12 months while I went travelling as I was mentally not in a great place and needed out of ireland/break from everything .


....but I'm in somewhat of an awkward position of now having an option of a fantastic job offer aboard (work/save for year/2 and be mortgage free) as I'm at an age where I want to buy/build and I'll never earn enough here to do it without returning to college

If you don't go now you'll regret it for the rest of your life, it's not as if the place'll disintergrate while you're away

visatorro

tomwaterford wrote: »

I'm rather unusual in that my da was pure delighted to had over running etc of it to me at 20/21 same as his dad before him (have fcuk all in way if entitlements as he had a huge heart attack year before it and cut numbers hugely)so it's been a rough few years trying to make money for myself aswell as invest in upgrading fencing etc

It'll never be full time Like and he was good enough to look after it for 12 months while I went travelling as I was mentally not in a great place and needed out of ireland/break from everything .


....but I'm in somewhat of an awkward position of now having an option of a fantastic job offer aboard (work/save for year/2 and be mortgage free) as I'm at an age where I want to buy/build and I'll never earn enough here to do it without returning to college

Go ta feck, rent it out for two years. It'll be there for you and at least you'll have the knowledge as to where to go next and a fine deposit for a house.

tomwaterford

rangler1 wrote: »

If you don't go now you'll regret it for the rest of your life, it's not as if the place'll disintergrate while you're away

I'm thinking as much....feel awlful selfish and I see lads raging at chance to take over their places and I'm looking at heading away


It seems too good to pass up as what I earn here,il never ever get a mortgage (would be left house here...but not going waiting around for 30+ years as parents still youngish),so hoping to decide in next few weeks,unless I win the lotto ..haha


@visatorro. ...spent too long building up a flock of sheep to type I like to throw it away....but if was long term away,I'd rent out

BENDYBINN

Can I ask a different question .
What age should a farmer retire at?

rangler1

Reggie. wrote: »

Or the eldest that ****ed off and comes back after the funeral for the will

sounds like the voice of experience

Cavanjack

Reggie. wrote: »

Or the eldest that ****ed off and comes back after the funeral for the will

Not so common now I would think?

Bullocks

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Can I ask a different question .
What age should a farmer retire at?

Same as everyone else in my opinion . Or each to their own really .

BENDYBINN

Bullocks wrote: »

Same as everyone else in my opinion . Or each to their own really .

So parents shouldn't sign over till they reach pension age?

Muckit

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Can I ask a different question .
What age should a farmer retire at?

Retire or be ready to transfer farm? Big difference. You could still be a farmer having handed over the reins. Many forget that.

Bullocks

BENDYBINN wrote: »

So parents shouldn't sign over till they reach pension age?

What do you mean sign over ? Land or herd number , they dont have to go hand in hand .
You dont need daddy's farm in order to be a farmer . I learned along time ago that it can be better to go your own path rather than wait for the wrinklies to hand over what they put their lifes work into
Of course the home farm is great to get but if its not big enough to support two wages you cant expect someone to give up their piece of it until they are good and ready with their time first

BENDYBINN

Muckit wrote: »

Retire or be ready to transfer farm? Big difference. You could still be a farmer having handed over the reins. Many forget that.

And how are you supposed to live?

Muckit

BENDYBINN wrote: »

And how are you supposed to live?

Everyones circumstances are different but provisions for that could be made in the terms of the succession plan.

BENDYBINN

Bullocks wrote: »

What do you mean sign over ? Land or herd number , they dont have to go hand in hand .
You dont need daddy's farm in order to be a farmer . I learned along time ago that it can be better to go your own path rather than wait for the wrinklies to hand over what they put their lifes work into
Of course the home farm is great to get but if its not big enough to support two wages you cant expect someone to give up their piece of it until they are good and ready with their time first

Agree fully,
There is no farm retirement scheme in place so a farmer can't sign over until he
reaches pension age.

Bullocks

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Agree fully,
There is no farm retirement scheme in place so a farmer can't sign over until he
reaches pension age.

I dont see the problem there , maybe they could look at renting another farm to grow the business if they want to bring the children into it but cant afford a second living from the farm they have . The other side of it is who wants to take over a farm generating a poor living for the current generation not to mention the next ....

tomwaterford

Bullocks wrote: »

I dont see the problem there , maybe they could look at renting another farm to grow the business if they want to bring the children into it but cant afford a second living from the farm they have . The other side of it is who wants to take over a farm generating a poor living for the current generation not to mention the next ....

The opportunity to take over a place and drive it on/improve it (keep/produce best quality animals possible)....is massive motivation for alot of people I'd imagine??


If it came down to straight money,large tracts of the country would be planted I'd imagine.

I know theres some years,I'd be better off to plant,

but at times when I wasn't working etc before...it was great to have something to do to give sense of achievement for the day....even if it was sponging dung out of old houses,tidying up rough corners etc

Bullocks

tomwaterford wrote: »

The opportunity to take over a place and drive it on/improve it (keep/produce best quality animals possible)....is massive motivation for alot of people I'd imagine??


If it came down to straight money,large tracts of the country would be planted I'd imagine.

I know theres some years,I'd be better off to plant,

but at times when I wasn't working etc before...it was great to have something to do to give sense of achievement for the day....even if it was sponging dung out of old houses,tidying up rough corners etc

I'm probably a bit different/miserable but in this day and age of crap returns from farming I find it more satifactory to pull money from the farm without putting loads in .
In fact I'm watching 2 local lads that are taking over small farms from their fathers and reckon they have spent more on sheds/tractors /reseeding than they are likely to draw back out in at least 10 years . I know its parttime farming but feck that for a game of cowboys

squinn2912

Really eye opening reading through those comments. Hardly a more controversial issue in the life of a farmer than who gets what.
I'm 32 an personally am more than happy for all of that to come in it's own time. My father is a brilliant farmer and as decent as they come. I aspire to be like him and in any aspect of my life value his input.
I love learning from him and he listens to my ideas and we talk things through all the time. He has the say so and he's the one best suited to have it. I'll just trust his judgement and I'm sure all will be well.
I teach Irish as well, spelling above is perfect.

naughto

For anyone Woking with your dad on the farm how do ye set up taking an income from it. Is it just from sales of sheep cattle milk etc ?