The boys in Europe slapping the timid Irish around again

A Battered Mars Bar

Taking us to court over the apple bill and now taking us (ryanair) to court over their fiasco.

Farage speaking in Brussels the other day was quick to point out how the EU likes to deal with voters.....re: the Catalonians. I actually greatly respected what he had to say for the first time as it sent chills down my spine reminding me of how the EU dealt with Treaty voters in Ireland on 2 occasions. Less the violence of course as Irish voters are known for their timidness and obedience.

Is it time for an Irexit? Eirexit? Paddyexit?

I think so. We should seriously consider tying ourselves econimally to the more fluid and agile British lest we get dragged down on the sinking EU ship under the weight of bureaucracy.

Or.

Break free. From all ties with Britain and the EU and set up as a wild west on the Atlantic as a tax free haven for big business. Legalise drugs and boost tourism as well.

There whole thread is about weed maaaaaan. Legalise the ganga maaaaaaaaaaan.

myshirt

And to think, some people want Sinn Fein in government in this country. Imagine how they would get on with these boys. Turned inside out, rode sideways, and eaten alive wouldn't be the half of it.

For me it is more important now than ever that we have competent people at the wheel.

Wanderer78

myshirt wrote:

For me it is more important now than ever that we have competent people at the wheel.

Sadly, very few, if any around. On we role....

HalloweenJack

The violence in Catalunya wasn't the EU, it was Spain.

Going after Ryanair does not equate with going after Ireland. If it does, then surely the EU are going after the US as Apple is from there.

Ireland has a lot more to lose from leaving the EU than gaining. It wouldn't be a smart move.

El_Duderino 09

Yeah because Brexit is going so well for the British. Whitehall is completely clogged up for the next few years that they have scaled back every aspect of government for the next few years to deal with Brexit.

Nothing will improve for the people of Britain over the next few years and it's government is paralysed. But if you think Ireland could do the job with a fraction of the resources to handle the exit negotiations. Then you must have more faith in government than most people.

super_furry

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Taking us to court over the apple bill and now taking us (ryanair) to court over their fiasco.

No. That's a bad Mars Bar. No.

_Brian

Ryanair isn’t “us” as in the Irish.

Ryanair is a private company ran by a megalomaniac idiot who needs taking down a few pegs.
Yes his model changed air travel for the better, bit he doesn’t need to be an annoying cnut all the time.

Wanderer78

_Brian wrote: »

Ryanair isn’t “us” as in the Irish.

Ryanair is a private company ran by a megalomaniac idiot who needs taking down a few pegs.
Yes his model changed air travel for the better, bit he doesn’t need to be an annoying cnut all the time.

debateable

VinLieger

Ryanair isnt "us", also they are being taken to court by the Belgians not the EU.

We are appealing the apple bill so technically we are taking them to court over it.

The EU has nothing to do with the awfulness going on in Spain.

In the other thread on the apple tax you were ranting and raving how people could believe such BS when you were presented with real confirmed facts and figures and refused to present any of your own evidence probably cus you have none. Its similar here you don't seem to care for the facts of anything and like to be outraged by what you "think" is happening.

Might do you some good to stay off the conspiracy theory twitter feeds.

FTA69

HalloweenJack wrote: »

The violence in Catalunya wasn't the EU, it was Spain.

.

True, but the European Commission have condoned the violence, described it as "proportionate" and also condemned the Catalans for rightly holding a vote after being denied it for ages by Madrid.

That raises many worrying questions about the EU and its nature as an institution. More and more people across Europe are starting to view it is an unaccountable power structure concerned with the status quo as opposed to a vibrant expression of European unity, and they aren't too far off.


(Don't think Irexit is feasible though)

VinLieger

FTA69 wrote: »

True, but the European Commission have condoned the violence, described it as "proportionate" and also condemned the Catalans for rightly holding a vote after being denied it for ages by Madrid.

That raises many worrying questions about the EU and its nature as an institution. More and more people across Europe are starting to view it is an unaccountable power structure concerned with the status quo as opposed to a vibrant expression of European unity, and they aren't too far off.


(Don't think Irexit is feasible though)

The vote was illegal under the Spanish constitution. Are people now calling for the EU to ignore the sovereign constitutions of member states? Its ironic cus pretty much exactly the same people demanding the EU get directly involved are the ones who have been shouting and screaming about the EU being too directly involved and having too much control over its members.

They can have one or the other they can't have both

BillyBobBS

myshirt wrote: »

And to think, some people want Sinn Fein in government in this country. Imagine how they would get on with these boys. Turned inside out, rode sideways, and eaten alive wouldn't be the half of it.

For me it is more important now than ever that we have competent people at the wheel.

SF are useless.

I agree we need competent people at the wheel which is why getting rid of FG from government is vital.

Wanderer78

BillyBobBS wrote: »

SF are useless.

I agree we need competent people at the wheel which is why getting rid of FG from government is vital.

and who do we put in?

VinLieger

BillyBobBS wrote: »

SF are useless.

I agree we need competent people at the wheel which is why getting rid of FG from government is vital.

Better the devil you know, FG have done no worse and possibly better than the only other choice would have. which is FF who would have jumped on every populist bandwagon available likely once again bankrupting the country.

Also who else is there?

FTA69

VinLieger wrote: »

The vote was illegal under the Spanish constitution. Are people now calling for the EU to ignore the sovereign constitutions of member states? Its ironic cus pretty much exactly the same people demanding the EU get directly involved are the ones who have been shouting and screaming about the EU being too directly involved and having too much control over its members.

They can have one or the other they can't have both

The Catalans had asked umpteen times for a referendum via their democratically elected government only to be refused it due to a nasty Spanish nationalism rooted in fascism. They are morally entitled to their self-determination.

Secondly, even if it was "illegal" (so was protesting against apartheid by the way), the Spanish police hospitalised 850 odd people, breaking women's fingers one by one and flinging old people down the stairs. That is not "proportionate" and the EC shouldn't be saying it is.

There's a million and one ways they could have commented on the situation that would have been fair to all sides, instead they described brutality and torture as "proportionate" and weighed full-scale in behind a government who is disgraced.

Victor

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

how the EU dealt with Treaty voters in Ireland on 2 occasions.

Actually, the EU respects the McKenna Judgement and know to not campaign for one side or other in a referendum.

VinLieger

FTA69 wrote: »

The Catalans had asked umpteen times for a referendum via their democratically elected government only to be refused it due to a nasty Spanish nationalism rooted in fascism. They are morally entitled to their self-determination.

Secondly, even if it was "illegal" (so was protesting against apartheid by the way), the Spanish police hospitalised 850 odd people, breaking women's fingers one by one and flinging old people down the stairs. That is not "proportionate" and the EC shouldn't be saying it is.

There's a million and one ways they could have commented on the situation that would have been fair to all sides, instead they described brutality and torture as "proportionate" and weighed full-scale in behind a government who is disgraced.

I completely agree the violence is disgraceful and actually counter productive, also anyone calling the violence proportioned is delusional. I also agree they should have the right to a referendum i'm just pointing out the EU have no business getting involved in a heated internal matter that is rooted in the countries constitution.

FTA69

VinLieger wrote: »

I completely agree the violence is disgraceful and actually counter productive, also anyone calling the violence proportioned is delusional. I also agree they should have the right to a referendum i'm just pointing out the EU have no business getting involved in a heated internal matter that is rooted in the countries constitution.

Mate I agree with you, and if the EC had said "it's an internal Spanish matter of law and order and politics" etc and left it at that I don't think anyone would have a problem - but when they start rowing in behind the cops and the rest then people should rightly question that.

suicide_circus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Whitehall is completely clogged up for the next few years that they have scaled back every aspect of government for the next few years

Probably no bad thing.

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

Probably no bad thing.

probably not good for the british public though, and maybe ourselves

suicide_circus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

probably not good for the british public though, and maybe ourselves

I think the british public can manage quite well with a reduction in interference from centralised government.

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think the british public can manage quite well with a reduction in interference from centralised government.

some probably will, some probably wont

hmmm

Brexit is going to be hilarious it will be so damaging. It only became obvious yesterday that the UK does not have full access rights to the WTO, so will not even be able to fall back on those rules.

The EU has rules in place, we could influence those rules, we signed up for those rules and we will be punished if we don't follow the rules. It's basic fairness, we can't complain. Particularly as a small nation, a rules based community is very important, and it's important that they are seen to be enforced.

topper75

The only thing Brexit has damaged to date is the Brussels gravy train.

I would happily vote for a Feckxit given a chance.

Can start again then with the old EEC. That actually worked for people.

El_Duderino 09

suicide_circus wrote:

Probably no bad thing.

I think the british public can manage quite well with a reduction in interference from centralised government.

I get the joke but I doubt you'd find it as funny if you lived in one of the areas that completely relies on centralised government to survive. Large areas of the north east rely on centralised government and now it's completely preoccupied with Brexit. The time and money to address the needs of schools, transport, industry is diminished.

I got your little joke about government being an interference, but in reality it's a bit silly. If you can think of any countries without a functioning government that you would like to live in, I'd be surprised.

_Brian

Wanderer78 wrote: »

debateable

Agreed.
It broke the crazy pricing where it was a weeks wage to fly to London.

Ryanair paves tue way for poor customer service to become tue norm.

I’ll qualify that by admitting I’ve never been on a Ryanair flight in my life, probably the only Irish adult not to.

Sonics2k

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Taking us to court over the apple bill and now taking us (ryanair) to court over their fiasco.

Farage speaking in Brussels the other day was quick to point out how the EU likes to deal with voters.....re: the Catalonians. I actually greatly respected what he had to say for the first time as it sent chills down my spine reminding me of how the EU dealt with Treaty voters in Ireland on 2 occasions. Less the violence of course as Irish voters are known for their timidness and obedience.

Is it time for an Irexit? Eirexit? Paddyexit?

I think so. We should seriously consider tying ourselves econimally to the more fluid and agile British lest we get dragged down on the sinking EU ship under the weight of bureaucracy.

Or.

Break free. From all ties with Britain and the EU and set up as a wild west on the Atlantic as a tax free haven for big business. Legalise drugs and boost tourism as well.

There whole thread is about weed maaaaaan. Legalise the ganga maaaaaaaaaaan.

This honestly just reeks of poorly educated dribble, and a failed agenda against the EU.

suicide_circus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I get the joke but I doubt you'd find it as funny if you lived in one of the areas that completely relies on centralised government to survive. Large areas of the north east rely on centralised government and now it's completely preoccupied with Brexit. The time and money to address the needs of schools, transport, industry is diminished.

I got your little joke about government being an interference, but in reality it's a bit silly. If you can think of any countries without a functioning government that you would like to live in, I'd be surprised.

Are you suggesting that the UK no longer has a functioning government? Do you work for Sky News?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Taking us to court over the apple bill and now taking us (ryanair) to court over their fiasco.

Farage speaking in Brussels the other day was quick to point out how the EU likes to deal with voters.....re: the Catalonians. I actually greatly respected what he had to say for the first time as it sent chills down my spine reminding me of how the EU dealt with Treaty voters in Ireland on 2 occasions. Less the violence of course as Irish voters are known for their timidness and obedience.

Is it time for an Irexit? Eirexit? Paddyexit?

I think so. We should seriously consider tying ourselves econimally to the more fluid and agile British lest we get dragged down on the sinking EU ship under the weight of bureaucracy.

Or.

Break free. From all ties with Britain and the EU and set up as a wild west on the Atlantic as a tax free haven for big business. Legalise drugs and boost tourism as well.

There whole thread is about weed maaaaaan. Legalise the ganga maaaaaaaaaaan.

No offence intended Mars Bar, but that is sheer unadulterated rubbish that smacks of a total lack of understanding of any of the issues.

Either that or you're just trying to be controversial and failed miserably.

El_Duderino 09

suicide_circus wrote:

Are you suggesting that the UK no longer has a functioning government? Do you work for Sky News?

No I'm didn't say that. I said government is too busy doing Brexit work to invest in time and money in doing much else. You suggested that's a good thing. I think that's a silly opinion.

A Battered Mars Bar

Brenda Some Dewdrop wrote: »

No offence intended Mars Bar, but that is sheer unadulterated rubbish that smacks of a total lack of understanding of any of the issues.

Either that or you're just trying to be controversial and failed miserably.

Oh man who let this uneducated on the topic poster post in this educated thread.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Oh man who let this uneducated on the topic poster post in this educated thread.

Rhetorical? You did.

suicide_circus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No I'm didn't say that. I said government is too busy doing Brexit work to invest in time and money in doing much else. You suggested that's a good thing. I think that's a silly opinion.

OK
One of us is worried, the other isn't

El_Duderino 09

suicide_circus wrote:

OK One of us is worried, the other isn't

I live in the affected area so I know one of us is worried. He other is making jokes and talking through the top of their head.

BillyBobBS

Europe doesn't give a toss about Ireland. We are a small island with little or no influence in the big picture. When Europe is through with the UK after Brexit Ireland is going to be left with it's dick swinging in the breeze. They didn't care about us when it came to bank debt bailout and they sure as sh it aren't going to care now.

suicide_circus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I live in the affected area so I know one of us is worried. He other is making jokes and talking through the top of their head.

Don't you see the utter dependence on centralised government as a problem?

Guy:Incognito

How they treated the treaty voters? You mean , listening to why it was rejected, made changes and had another vote on an amended treaty? The bloody dictators!

Gringo180

Would love us to give the 2 fingers to the E.U. Our sovereignty is slowly eroding away under a regime who have no mandate from the Irish population.

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

Don't you see the utter dependence on centralised government as a problem?

im more concerned about the concentration of power and wealth in large institutions and corporations, at least with some sort of central government, theres some sort of hope for democracy, whereby with large institutions and corporations theres virtually little or no hope for democratic rule, as its more plutocratic in nature

BillyBobBS

Gringo180 wrote: »

Would love us to give the 2 fingers to the E.U. Our sovereignty is slowly eroding away under a regime who have no mandate from the Irish population.

The only way that will happen is by voting in a euro skeptic party and unfortunately we don't have one in Ireland

El_Duderino 09

suicide_circus wrote: »

Don't you see the utter dependence on centralised government as a problem?

It might be a problem. And now the government is too busy with Brexit to do the job. That's the immediate problem.

_Kaiser_

topper75 wrote: »

The only thing Brexit has damaged to date is the Brussels gravy train.

I would happily vote for a Feckxit given a chance.

Can start again then with the old EEC. That actually worked for people.

+1

The EEC was actually a very good idea and worked very well - it's when the leadership started getting political notions that the wheels started to come off.

These days the EU is a bloated unaccountable bureaucracy run for the benefit of the 2/3 big players. If those decisions happen to benefit countries like Ireland, fair enough... if not, tough ****.

We have seen enough examples in how the EU dealt with Greece and even Ireland (if the "orders" to the late Brian Lenhihan are to be believed) during the financial crisis, and their reaction to resistance from eastern EU countries to the "refugee" strategy to know at this stage that opposition is not welcome or tolerated. This is something that's being increasingly recognized by the citizens of the member States - hence the rise in far left/right parties and the likes of LePenn etc.

Of course here in Ireland we have a mainstream political and business class that greatly benefits from the EU - many of them take up cushy positions after local politics or as speakers/lobbyists - but despite the efforts to argue the Apple judgement (because even our Government realise the implications), I have no doubt that ultimately we'll do what we're told.. and we'll soon lose one of our greatest natural allies in the UK when Brexit is finalised. How influential do ya think FG/FF will be then?

The problem is yes... as a small open economy hugely dependent on FDI, we're entirely beholden to the whim of the multinational corporations and EU markets that provide us jobs. In that sense it absolutely doesn't make sense for us to rock the boat.

But socially, culturally, and from a sovereignty perspective things are a lot less clear cut. I think Brexit will only be the start. Several other countries are watching and waiting to see the outcome and I won't be surprised - if indeed the sky doesn't fall on the UK - if others similarly look for the door. That's assuming another financial/external crisis doesn't arise in the meantime to further expose and deepen the cracks.

Ireland though will sit back and wait for the decisions to be made by others and of course by that stage it'll no doubt be too late and another (probably far more severe) recession will be the result.

endacl

Brexit. The unprepared negotiating the undefined on behalf of the uninformed.

Yes. We should do that. Definitely.

RDM_83 again

Wanderer78 wrote: »

suicide_circus wrote: »

Don't you see the utter dependence on centralised government as a problem?

im more concerned about the concentration of power and wealth in large institutions and corporations, at least with some sort of central government, theres some sort of hope for democracy, whereby with large institutions and corporations theres virtually little or no hope for democratic rule, as its more plutocratic in nature

Wouldn't the EU with the current way it's being ran the exact opposite of what your seeking then, e.g all the Goldman Sachs personal that hop in and out of roles in the EU?
I am not a Brexit fan but there is a reason a lot on further left dislike the EU as it is now.

Wanderer78

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Wouldn't the EU with the current way it's being ran the exact opposite of what your seeking then, e.g all the Goldman Sachs personal that hop in and out of roles in the EU?
I am not a Brexit fan but there is a reason a lot on further left dislike the EU as it is now.

great points, but id rather try change the eu that totally destroy it. it has some major advantages for all, and has been very successful in many ways. if the eu collapsed, id fear for all economies. please be aware, im a lefty, but totally disagree with some of the left you speak of.

BillyBobBS

endacl wrote: »

Brexit. The unprepared negotiating the undefined on behalf of the uninformed.

Yes. We should do that. Definitely.

We'll have no choice in a few years. Brexit itself is going to kill us if we stay with the EU model. Still don't think the majority of the country understand just how bad it is going to end for us. We have a strong hand to play now as the EU is weak and desperate for things not to go off the rails. The EU don't give a hoot about Ireland and will fcuk us over the first chance they get as they already have with the bank bailout.

Let's grow a pair ffs and start acting like men.

A Little Pony

It is time for the Irish people to demand a referendum.

A Little Pony

BillyBobBS wrote: »

endacl wrote: »

Brexit. The unprepared negotiating the undefined on behalf of the uninformed.

Yes. We should do that. Definitely.

We'll have no choice in a few years. Brexit itself is going to kill us if we stay with the EU model. Still don't think the majority of the country understand just how bad it is going to end for us. We have a strong hand to play now as the EU is weak and desperate for things not to go off the rails. The EU don't give a hoot about Ireland and will fcuk us over the first chance they get as they already have with the bank bailout.

Let's grow a pair ffs and start acting like men.

Self governing, sovereignty, control over your borders, your own currency, making your own laws, getting out of the ECJ, Irish law created for the Irish people by the Irish people.

Saruhashi

endacl wrote: »

Brexit. The unprepared negotiating the undefined on behalf of the uninformed.

Yes. We should do that. Definitely.

Isn't the fact that it is so extremely difficult, and potentially disastrous, for the UK to actually leave the EU an argument in itself for leaving the EU?
(or at least an argument for having never joined the EU in the first place)

If we've entered into a deal that it's impossible to get out of without killing ourselves then how was that ever a good deal?

If the UK survives Brexit, and thrives after Brexit, then those who wanted to leave are proven correct.

If attempting to leave the EU is a total disaster or impossibility for the UK then that shows how bad it actually is to be part of the EU. You simply cannot leave the EU.

Ha, those dumb Brits tried to leave the EU and they got ruined because of it! That's why we all love the EU right? This deal we can't EVER get out of is amazing isn't it lads?
Stay in the EU or be destroyed trying to leave... sounds like a bad situation to be in.

VinLieger

Your inverse logic is incredible.....

Saruhashi wrote: »

Isn't the fact that it is so extremely difficult, and potentially disastrous, for the UK to actually leave the EU an argument in itself for leaving the EU?
(or at least an argument for having never joined the EU in the first place)

No its not, contracts are made to be maintained not broken, membership of the UK is essentially a contract.

Saruhashi wrote: »

If we've entered into a deal that it's impossible to get out of without killing ourselves then how was that ever a good deal?

You could ask anyone who gets married the same question.....

Saruhashi wrote: »

If the UK survives Brexit, and thrives after Brexit, then those who wanted to leave are proven correct.

If attempting to leave the EU is a total disaster or impossibility for the UK then that shows how bad it actually is to be part of the EU. You simply cannot leave the EU.

Again your logic is inverse here, it really just shows how good they have it in the EU, if leaving means they will be worse off.

Saruhashi wrote: »

Ha, those dumb Brits tried to leave the EU and they got ruined because of it! That's why we all love the EU right? This deal we can't EVER get out of is amazing isn't it lads?
Stay in the EU or be destroyed trying to leave... sounds like a bad situation to be in.

You can get out of it however again no contract was ever made that could be easily broken, the idea is for them to be maintained.

Guy:Incognito

A Little Pony wrote: »

Self governing, sovereignty, control over your borders, your own currency, making your own laws, getting out of the ECJ, Irish law created for the Irish people by the Irish people.

Why does it make such a difference to you to have borders and barriers based on what bit of land whatever the dominant tribes managed to wall off for themselves over the centuries?


How many threads have their been about how crap our politicians are and they can't be trusted , yet so many don't want anyone else making decisions either.