Exit Interview with HR - Job from hell

CeceOR

Hi all,


I have never found myself in a situation like this so I would really appreciate some advice.
I’m in my late 20’s and recently moved from Dublin to the UK. I landed a 6 month contract in a financial firm and it has been six months of pure hell. The firm is rigid, uptight, and I found myself in an understaffed team (high turnover) which is tough to begin with. When you add a really bad manager to the mix it is a nightmare. I should have ran out the door the first week, not ignored my better judgement. 


My manager has offered me no support or a single word of praise in all the time I have been here, criticises me constantly (from arriving in the morning at 9:00am and not 8:50am, which no one else on the team does, popping out to make a phone call to arrange a doctor's appointment, to the absolutely insane - getting up from my desk to go to the bathroom and the way I speak - no I’m serious, in her mind I’m away from the desk too long and I talk too fast).


I’m not sure she is aware of what she is doing, completely wrapped up in their own bubble. But it is also possible that she is aware and honestly doesn’t care.


I tense up when I have to speak to her - everything is negative or an accusation that I have done something wrong. It has caused me serious upset and in a matter of weeks I had lost my confidence, struggling to keep my head above water. I have zero motivation on the weekends, I just crash and burn. I burst into tears one day after another round of criticism and she asked me what was wrong, I explained that it was the constant criticism and she told me she just thinks I’m taking things too personally because I’m new to the country and out of my comfort zone.


I’m angry at myself because being away from home, I just assumed that it was me not fitting in, not being able for the job or struggling in general working in a new industry.


Anyway, I’m leaving for a new job and caught between a rock and a hard place - now that I’m leaving, I’m being asked by other members of the team and the HR department to give an honest and frank description of my time at the firm and how I have been treated by my manager, not to do what people usually do, which is say very little, nod and tick the boxes to get out of there. Other members of the team have complained about the constantly negative vibe and they want me to speak from first hand experience, give them something concrete they can use.


But I feel like I am too close to the situation to see things clearly, like I might be walking into a trap. People nod and tick boxes in these interviews for a reason - to get a good reference, to not burn bridges. No one else has anything to lose here.


I have no idea what to do and I could really use some objective opinions.


Thanks.

server down

You really should use the exit interview to explain why you are leaving, particularly as HR seem to want you to. It might help the next employee in your position.

And exit interviews are private. Not sure what you think the penalty would be.

delly

Tick the box and move on. You have to look out for yourself at the end of the day, not the welfare of a company you are leaving. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but things do work very differently in the UK to here. That's a bit of a general statement, but I find it to be more rigid and less flex when it comes to the workplace.

whatnext

Being brutally honest I don't see a genuine grievance listed above. Perhaps the tone is not to your liking but it's not your managers role to give you a cuddle when you do what you are being paid to do.

Have a look at this, it may offer some perspective
https://youtu.be/As8XkJNaHbs

server down

whatnext wrote: »

Being brutally honest I don't see a genuine grievance listed above. Perhaps the tone is not to your liking but it's not your managers role to give you a cuddle when you do what you are being paid to do.

Have a look at this, it may offer some perspective
https://youtu.be/As8XkJNaHbs

She had legitimate complaints.

conacks

server down wrote: »

And exit interviews are private. Not sure what you think the penalty would be.

Exit interviews will not remain private.......anywhere. You are gone, they no longer care to keep anything about you private. Keep this in mind.

Also depending on the industry I have found through my career that you can very easily end up meeting the same people at different stages in your career. This person could end up being a work colleague again in the future or even report into you at some stage.

Tick the boxes and move on.......

server down

conacks wrote: »

Exit interviews will not remain private.......anywhere. You are gone, they no longer care to keep anything about you private. Keep this in mind.

Also depending on the industry I have found through my career that you can very easily end up meeting the same people at different stages in your career. This person could end up being a work colleague again in the future or even report into you at some stage.

Tick the boxes and move on.......

This is London not this small little city. She’s extremely unlikely to meet this woman again even if she stays in London. And nobody publishes exit interviews.

In this case HR seem to want to get some details on why the early exit. No reason not to explain it.

Rubberchikken

Be honest.
Not being honest allows this type of behaviour to continue.
Maybe she doesn't realise what she's doing but on the other hand maybe she does and needs to be checked on it.
I'm not saying she needed to hold your hand or treat you extra special but a little consideration and encouragement goes a long way.

If you decide to tick the box and say nothing you'll remember her in a negative way always. You'll also remember that you had an opportunity to do something positive and you didn't. I know what I'd do in the circumstances.
Good luck

beauf

If one manager has a high staff turnover, they don't need an exit interview to see what the problem is.

Mr_Muffin

I would keep your opinions about members of staff out of it and just focus on how the workplace could be improved. You just don't know who is 'pally' with each other in most companies and word could get around. As said already - look after yourself first, not the company.

99nsr125

Hang the bîtch out to dry

You'll be saving other people

CeceOR wrote: »

Hi all,


I have never found myself in a situation like this so I would really appreciate some advice.
I’m in my late 20’s and recently moved from Dublin to the UK. I landed a 6 month contract in a financial firm and it has been six months of pure hell. The firm is rigid, uptight, and I found myself in an understaffed team (high turnover) which is tough to begin with. When you add a really bad manager to the mix it is a nightmare. I should have ran out the door the first week, not ignored my better judgement. 


My manager has offered me no support or a single word of praise in all the time I have been here, criticises me constantly (from arriving in the morning at 9:00am and not 8:50am, which no one else on the team does, popping out to make a phone call to arrange a doctor's appointment, to the absolutely insane - getting up from my desk to go to the bathroom and the way I speak - no I’m serious, in her mind I’m away from the desk too long and I talk too fast).


I’m not sure she is aware of what she is doing, completely wrapped up in their own bubble. But it is also possible that she is aware and honestly doesn’t care.


I tense up when I have to speak to her - everything is negative or an accusation that I have done something wrong. It has caused me serious upset and in a matter of weeks I had lost my confidence, struggling to keep my head above water. I have zero motivation on the weekends, I just crash and burn. I burst into tears one day after another round of criticism and she asked me what was wrong, I explained that it was the constant criticism and she told me she just thinks I’m taking things too personally because I’m new to the country and out of my comfort zone.


I’m angry at myself because being away from home, I just assumed that it was me not fitting in, not being able for the job or struggling in general working in a new industry.


Anyway, I’m leaving for a new job and caught between a rock and a hard place - now that I’m leaving, I’m being asked by other members of the team and the HR department to give an honest and frank description of my time at the firm and how I have been treated by my manager, not to do what people usually do, which is say very little, nod and tick the boxes to get out of there. Other members of the team have complained about the constantly negative vibe and they want me to speak from first hand experience, give them something concrete they can use.


But I feel like I am too close to the situation to see things clearly, like I might be walking into a trap. People nod and tick boxes in these interviews for a reason - to get a good reference, to not burn bridges. No one else has anything to lose here.


I have no idea what to do and I could really use some objective opinions.


Thanks.

the_syco

CeceOR wrote: »

Anyway, I’m leaving for a new job and caught between a rock and a hard place - now that I’m leaving, I’m being asked by other members of the team and the HR department to give an honest and frank description of my time at the firm and how I have been treated by my manager

Were they of any help in your 6 months? Did they have your back? If no, tick the box and leave, as it sounds like they just want to use you as "the reason" to sack her.

JD1763

Leave the problems of the old workplace behind you. You are moving on to better things and don't need the baggage of someone else's problems. If other staff have an issue with this person they should raise it with HR, the fact they haven't would rings alarm bells for me and its not fair to put you in this position as their scapegoat. It's not up to you to give them something concrete to act on.

I would have zero expectation that what you say would remain privileged. If people are attempting to build a case against this person, you could find yourself in an even more difficult position down the line if your statement is used as the basis for a dismissal or disciplinary action that then goes legal, etc. etc.

Best advice nod, smile, say very little and then walk out the door to better circumstances and leave this negative experience behind you. Life is too short to be taking on other people's problems.

bucketybuck

I don't see the problem in being discreet but honest in an exit interview. You don't need to go in and name and shame anybody or start ranting and raving, just calmly tell them that you are leaving due to a culture of constant criticism and zero support from management. That you are confident in your work and ability and know that it is not a good working environment.

You can get your point across without naming a single person and if pressed to do so just smile and refuse. Its scaremongering to think that an understated but critical exit interview is going to unduly hurt you in the future, not in the financial industry.

scheister

It is a case between a rock and a hard place. No matter how big a city is its a small world especially if staying withing an industry. I moved from a job that i would consider a job from hell to a much better job but since its same industry i decided not to hang my manger out to dry. My thinking is that i could very easily end up across the table from them in a business deal in the coming years and would not want to give them a reason to be out to get me.
Someone times sucking it up and moving on quietly is the best option. If the turnover is as bad as you say either the company knows and does not care or they are clueless but that aint your problem any more

gimli2112

I wouldn't stress over it. At the end of the day you're leaving them behind and good riddance. I tend to be honest when people ask me questions which doesn't always end well.

Jimbob1977

Give logical and constructive feedback, with real examples.

The HR Department are undoubtedly aware of the manager's past history.

If she is driving people out the door, it's better to keep six good staff than one bad manager.

never_mind

whatnext wrote: »

Being brutally honest I don't see a genuine grievance listed above. Perhaps the tone is not to your liking but it's not your managers role to give you a cuddle when you do what you are being paid to do.

Have a look at this, it may offer some perspective
https://youtu.be/As8XkJNaHbs

Em... being constantly belittled isn't a symptom of being a snowflake so why don't ya just get off your little pedestal and offer the OP some advice.

HR is there to protect the interests of the company, OP, while it isn't going to have any affect on your career trajectory I wouldn't be so quick to say that it'll be strictly confidential. Is the company small?

bohsfan

In a small industry never underestimate how thing can come back to haunt you...

I was in a similar position. Problems with management and decided to leave the job. Had an exit interview and colleagues expressed encouragement that I would lay things on the line in the hope it would improve everyone's lot. I was tempted to put the boot in, but decided that I would keep my council and play the 'looking for new opportunities' card.

Landed a new job a few weeks later, happy days. Bumped into my old manager one day in the corridor- apparently they had recently networked with my new boss and were now meeting regularly... Shortly after that I found out another of my old bosses provides consultancy advice to my new place. Delighted I kept my mouth shut!

Just my opinion- but at the end of the day, if I was extremely worried about the workplace practices I should have raised it when I was working there. Not when I was moving on.

never_mind

bohsfan wrote: »

In a small industry never underestimate how thing can come back to haunt you...

I was in a similar position. Problems with management and decided to leave the job. Had an exit interview and colleagues expressed encouragement that I would lay things on the line in the hope it would improve everyone's lot. I was tempted to put the boot in, but decided that I would keep my council and play the 'looking for new opportunities' card.

Landed a new job a few weeks later, happy days. Bumped into my old manager one day in the corridor- apparently they had recently networked with my new boss and were now meeting regularly... Shortly after that I found out another of my old bosses provides consultancy advice to my new place. Delighted I kept my mouth shut!

Just my opinion- but at the end of the day, if I was extremely worried about the workplace practices I should have raised it when I was working there. Not when I was moving on.

This is perfect advice, imo. Ireland, unfortunately, is too small. When you scale things back you realise it is basically a village. Better to just walk away, OP and go on indeed/irishjobs and write a poor review that's anonymous!!!

server down

never_mind wrote: »

This is perfect advice, imo. Ireland, unfortunately, is too small. When you scale things back you realise it is basically a village. Better to just walk away, OP and go on indeed/irishjobs and write a poor review that's anonymous!!!

She is not in Ireland.

never_mind

server down wrote: »

She is not in Ireland.

Read from UK to Dublin. DOH!

steamsey

Speaking from experience - don't waste your time with an exit interview. Any company that allows a manager like that to stick around has issues. You won't change anything with an exit interview. Risk to you is that once you're gone, they can repeat what you said / sully your name / you may meet these people again. Benefit to you = zero. You may think there will be satisfaction with a brutal exit interview, but they're won't be. Wash your hair of that place / that manager and take comfort knowing that you are moving on to better and brighter things. Onwards and upwards!

Also, next time you get the feeling you should leave after a week - listen to your gut - it rarely lies in these situations. One atrocious piece of advice I once heard was to someone in a similar situation to yours - they were told that people change, people move around - stick with the sh*tty job and it will get better. 2 years later, they were a blubbering wreck and ended up leaving having wasted all that time. The facts are that people don't change and if the department / company is a joke - it is highly likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. With that said, I can't imagine the balls it would take to leave after a week (or so) because you had bad vibes.

daheff

the_syco wrote: »

Were they of any help in your 6 months? Did they have your back? If no, tick the box and leave, as it sounds like they just want to use you as "the reason" to sack her.

Have to agree with this. Why should you be the one making the complaint? They are all grown adults who can talk with HR themselves. None of them have the balls to do it.


Look at this another way, what do you get out of giving the company an exit interview? nothing. Go in nod/smile tick the box and walk out again.

beauf

Exit interviews seem a bit pointless on reflection. HR would be better looking at their retention rates.

razorblunt

Be careful, don't just do it as your colleagues "want you to", by all means give a frank appraisal of your time but don't expect it to remain private.

I work in Financial Services and I would have a big problem with someone coming in at 9 on the dot, even if "no one else comes in at that time". I do realise, however, a lot would depend on the firm's sector and your own team, department in particular.

beauf

razorblunt wrote: »

...I would have a big problem with someone coming in at 9 on the dot, even if "no one else comes in at that time". I do realise, however, a lot would depend on the firm's sector and your own team, department in particular.

I think if a job requires someone to be at their desk or on the floor at a specific time that should be in the job description. Some places I've worked require you to be waiting to start 15 mins before the start time specifically to achieve this.

I don't think the time is the issue here. Its that one person (the OP) is the only being being required to do this. They are being singled out. Perhaps that's a perception issue, as the other staff seem to have issues with the same manager on other issues, it would seems unlikely, though not impossible, that its an issue for everyone.

Wildcard7

You have 50% of people telling you to be honest, and 50% of people to move on, for various reasons. I'm sure that's a lot of help

At the end of the day, do what feels right. I have been in a similar situation, and I can tell you a few things:
- You are not imagening it. It's not you. There are toxic work environments. Noone here can judge how toxic your job is/was. Considering you've been in other jobs before, and your coworkers seem to feel the same, you can to trust your own judgement.
- You don't owe your coworkers anything. They can stand up for themselves. If one of them suggests to you to tell HR how horrible your manager is, invite them to join the interview with HR, so your combined statements carry more weight. Don't relay anyone elses complaints and words, they will change depending on the audience.
- If you bring the horrible work conditions up, that might have an adverse effect on you (references etc.).
- If you don't bring the horrible work conditions up, that might prevent you from finding closure and regaining confidence.

bucketybuck

steamsey wrote: »

Any company that allows a manager like that to stick around has issues.

They can't win though. If they let the manager stick around they have issues, if they try to build a case for dismissal they get no input from the staff affected, or even from people already leaving.

server down

bucketybuck wrote: »

They can't win though. If they let the manager stick around they have issues, if they try to build a case for dismissal they get no input from the staff affected, or even from people already leaving.

yes, apparantly HR interviews have no purpose at all. People are too scared that they are a trap.

I have never thought like that, but maybe some people are more knowleable on the subject. Certainly if it is even 10% likely to affect your career you shouldnt complain but that means that the exit interviews are not fit for purpose.

razorblunt

beauf wrote: »

I think if a job requires someone to be at their desk or on the floor at a specific time that should be in the job description. Some places I've worked require you to be waiting to start 15 mins before the start time specifically to achieve this.

I don't think the time is the issue here. Its that one person (the OP) is the only being being required to do this. They are being singled out. Perhaps that's a perception issue, as the other staff seem to have issues with the same manager on other issues, it would seems unlikely, though not impossible, that its an issue for everyone.

I agree, the timing isn't an issue, but I'd be reluctant to use that as an example in a chat to HR at the same time. Depending on the kind of Financial Services though, it's always a given that you're in before 9, but the issue here, I guess is that the whole team is doing it (coming in later), that's the manager's problem.

OP, were you the only one pulled up on this? Were you pulled up in front of everyone? Could the manager have said similar in private to your colleagues?

pilly

beauf wrote: »

I think if a job requires someone to be at their desk or on the floor at a specific time that should be in the job description. Some places I've worked require you to be waiting to start 15 mins before the start time specifically to achieve this.

I don't think the time is the issue here. Its that one person (the OP) is the only being being required to do this. They are being singled out. Perhaps that's a perception issue, as the other staff seem to have issues with the same manager on other issues, it would seems unlikely, though not impossible, that its an issue for everyone.

I don't get it? What's the problem with starting at 9 if your start time is 9?

jimmycrackcorm

Wildcard7 wrote:

You have 50% of people telling you to be honest, and 50% of people to move on, for various reasons. I'm sure that's a lot of help

Put it like this. Had more than one previous person not ticked the boxes in their exit interviews before the OP started, then they might not have had to suffer all that time at that partition.

beauf

pilly wrote: »

I don't get it? What's the problem with starting at 9 if your start time is 9?

I think the point is, they should be honest about the hours. If you say its a 9-5 job then don't try make it a 8.30 to 6pm by stealth. Say its 8.30 - 6.

bucketybuck

beauf wrote: »

I think the point is, they should be honest about the hours. If you say its a 9-5 job then don't try make it a 8.30 to 6pm by stealth. Say its 8.30 - 6.

I've always thought it ridiculous that in some industries they have a culture of arriving early and staying late, when whats really happening is that staff are stretching jobs out during the day so that they can look busy as they sit there doing their unpaid overtime in the evenings.

Give me staff that get stuck in and do a shed-load of work during the day and then leave at home time with everything done, that would suit me far better than bluffers pretending to be busy at night.

Kavrocks

I had a job that I decided to leave after two weeks for a few reasons. In my exit interview with HR, I was honest about my reasons for leaving and my time in the company. Everything negative I mentioned even if I stated how it could be improved was refuted. I was either told my opinion or experience was wrong or it was my fault that things progressed like that.

lawred2

Tick the boxes and move on. Say thanks for the opportunity but you're ready for a different/fresh challenge.

Why bother doing anything else?

lawred2

99nsr125 wrote: »

Hang the bîtch out to dry

You'll be saving other people

No he/she won't - nothing will change. All that you'll do is damage your own reputation.

Even if it's really warranted there is nothing to be gained from negative feedback in an exit interview. You're already out the door. Just leave it at that.

Wildcard7

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Put it like this. Had more than one previous person not ticked the boxes in their exit interviews before the OP started, then they might not have had to suffer all that time at that partition.

I myself would bring it up, in detail. I would try to be as detached, non-personal and professional as possible (not go in full of anger and poop on the desk), but I would not hold back. I would have to do that because otherwise that episode of my life would always follow me around.

But the OP needs to weigh pros and cons for themselves. And certainly not fall into the trap of saying "person XYZ is poison for the work environment, everybody says so", because then the question comes up who "everybody" is. And as soon as "everybody" has a name or two, "everybody"s opinions suddenly become a lot more timid and OP looks like a drama queen who made things up.

Also I don't think OP owes future workers there anything, just like they don't owe their current coworkers anything. That's why I'm saying decide yourself what your view of the situation is and what's important to you, and act accordingly. Everything else is a slippery slope.

pilly

beauf wrote: »

I think the point is, they should be honest about the hours. If you say its a 9-5 job then don't try make it a 8.30 to 6pm by stealth. Say its 8.30 - 6.

No I get that. But a previous poster said they would have a problem with someone arriving on the dot of 9. I don't get that?

doylerkelly

hi ,
I was in the same situation as you a few years ago. the manager treated me exactly as you're describing being treated. other employees used to say that she always had to have someone to pick on, she was in the company 30 years and everyone was afraid to say Boo to her. The employees witnessed the way she spoke to me and said it was disgraceful.
I kept notes , date and time of incidents. Apparently I wasn't the first person to be bullied by her. I done my exit interview with HR and was totally straight with them of the bullying.
I moved on to another company in the same industry and deal with my old company (we supply goods to them), I've never dealt directly with her thank God.
5 years on I'm still in the newer company and haven't looked back.

Just do the exit interview with totally honesty and don't look back

good luck:D

razorblunt

pilly wrote: »

No I get that. But a previous poster said they would have a problem with someone arriving on the dot of 9. I don't get that?

Like I said it depends on the job and firm, but in Financial Services you'd often find a "9 to 5" job actually entails a need to be at your desk earlier than 9. The roles I've worked have often stated "usually 9 to 5, covering XX hours a week", then your individual manager would say "we actually need cover from 8 so we rotate and in early, out early shift too".

My point was more to not use that as an example in the HR interview, but again, this is something the manager should have handled within the team.

server down

lawred2 wrote: »

No he/she won't - nothing will change. All that you'll do is damage your own reputation.

Even if it's really warranted there is nothing to be gained from negative feedback in an exit interview. You're already out the door. Just leave it at that.

Irish people are so timid in work. Damage your reputation by legitimately criticising a bad manager. Really? I mean what could the HR exit interview be for, except to work out what was happening when someone left.

Squatman

give an honest review. Keep it professional, i cant deliver efficiently because,... I find work stressful because.. It would be better ifff. I didnt have room to develop because. Dont be afraid of missing out on a reference. if your smart enough for a new job, then your smart enough to have your ducks in a row. FFS if its that much trouble then I will be your reference. Best of luck

lawred2

server down wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

No he/she won't - nothing will change. All that you'll do is damage your own reputation.

Even if it's really warranted there is nothing to be gained from negative feedback in an exit interview. You're already out the door. Just leave it at that.

Irish people are so timid in work. Damage your reputation by legitimately criticising a bad manager. Really? I mean what could the HR exit interview be for, except to work out what was happening when someone left.

Timid? Give me a break! I sort my work related issues while I'm employed. Not when I'm walking out the door. Telling a bunch of people not leaving why you're leaving... I don't see for one second why it's a worthwhile exercise.. there is nothing whatsoever to be gained. Absolutely nothing will change. This is a standard HR procedure. A box ticking exercise.

If you're leaving - leave.

georgewickstaff

And we are off again..the usual types saying the managers behaviour was acceptable. The usual types terrified it could harm the OP to speak frankly and honestly about their experience in London ffs! The usual types completely misding the point. I read these threads with increasing revulsion and pity at some of the posters who would do anything to earn their few bob a month.

jimmycrackcorm

Wildcard7 wrote:

Also I don't think OP owes future workers there anything, just like they don't owe their current coworkers anything. That's why I'm saying decide yourself what your view of the situation is and what's important to you, and act accordingly. Everything else is a slippery slope.

My point is that it is taking an attitude like this is the reason why the op had to suffer.

The nothing to lose about telling the truth in the interview.

server down

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My point is that it is taking an attitude like this is the reason why the op had to suffer.

The nothing to lose about telling the truth in the interview.

I would have thought so.

An exit interview isnt the same as an interview for another job. In a job interview you are better not being cirtical of your previous employer because they cant know if you are just a complainer, or not. In an exit interview HR would have some idea of the issues ( of course this depends on other people doing the exit interview properly).

DeanAustin

whatnext wrote: »

Being brutally honest I don't see a genuine grievance listed above. Perhaps the tone is not to your liking but it's not your managers role to give you a cuddle when you do what you are being paid to do.

Have a look at this, it may offer some perspective
https://youtu.be/As8XkJNaHbs

Being brutally honest, I hope you don't manage people. The style of management being described is ridiculous and counter productive.

beauf

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My point is that it is taking an attitude like this is the reason why the op had to suffer. ...The nothing to lose about telling the truth in the interview.

In a place with a high turnover of staff, I going to assume they aren't learning from the exit interviews.

server down

beauf wrote: »

In a place with a high turnover of staff, I going to assume they aren't learning from the exit interviews.

Maybe nobody is volunteering information.