Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

pilly

TheDoc wrote: »

The initial assumption from most people when they would read about employment figures is that it's regarding Irish workers, when in fact the high level numbers are a total.

When you drill down into the finer numbers you start to realise there is large disparities between Irish vs EU workers.

I think at some point it will become a topic of conversation, based on the knock on effects it has to both the local and larger regional economies.

To be clear, should you assume I'm going down that path, I'm very much in support of the freedom of labour and competitiveness in the labour market, but I think it's important that data is properly reflected and challenged accordingly, instead of left idle and taken at face value when trotted out by Fine Gael for example claiming credit for a recovery they had little to nothing to do with, and then pointing to various data as "evidence"of strong growth and recovery but not being transparent with the underlying drivers of that data and figures.

I really don't get what you're trying to say, I'm not being obtuse here.

The unemployment figures are the unemployment figures whatever way you look at it.

The people on long term unemployment for example wouldn't ever be filling the high level posts you're talking about so I don't know what your point is.

Tony EH

TheDoc wrote: »

Caveats to those figures is the % of the workforce who are actually Irish. There is an extreme fuzzyness of the numbers when its broken down.

That caveat doesn't really matter, but yes there is an "extreme fuzzyness" to how the numbers are broken down.

However, what DOES matter is that too many of these jobs are low paid and of a temporary nature. So, while people are getting back into the workforce, they're doing so in a short term contract capacity and for buttons and then find themselves back on the dole.

There's more than a few people that I know who lost their permanent (relatively) well paying jobs and have been in a short term contract loop for ages now and prospects aren't that great.

Necro

Hitman3000 wrote:

I see figures for Leo's 'dept of spin' has been released today even though Leo said it would be cost neutral. So 5 million euro to tell us how

Don't get me started on this. Pulled a whole section out of the PSO in Sligo and moved it back to Dublin for his hype train. So much for decentralisation.

enricoh

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

So based on my quick calculations, which I hope are correct, here is what people will get extra into their pocket per year, I'll warn you it's bleak unless you're on 40K+ or social welfare.

Jobseekers: + €260 PY
20K Worker: + €36.81 (these may have been better off just getting punched in the face)
30K worker: + €61.87 ( a mear slap for these guys)
40K worker: + €236.87 (Still not even as much as the social, which is unreal)
50K worker: + €261.87
60K worker: + €286.87
70K+ worker: + €311.87

And the government tells us they want to look after the people who get up early in the morning, go to work and pay the taxes that pay for everything!

ongarite

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Rate of unemployment has been plummeting of late and we're now nearing full employment again. I doubt an extra €5 a month is going to lure people on to the dole queues.

Last time we had full employment we we running with huge budget surpluses and now at near same levels we are still running deficits.
Money seems to be disappearing down a black hole with infrastructure needing massive investment after a decade of stagnation.

Chips Lovell

It ain't a black hole. It's all there in black and white. We're still paying down debt for fixing the mess we got ourselves into. That's the big difference between then and now.

TheDoc

pilly wrote: »

I really don't get what you're trying to say, I'm not being obtuse here.

The unemployment figures are the unemployment figures whatever way you look at it.

The people on long term unemployment for example wouldn't ever be filling the high level posts you're talking about so I don't know what your point is.

Sorry was responding to this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104928370&postcount=154

In a way trying to convey(obviously in a poor way) that while the headline figures have us nearly reaching full employment and unemployment dropping there is health checks with those figures regarding

• Ratio between Irish vs EU worker allocation
• Ratio between fulltime roles and contract/short term employment
• Ratio between salaried positions and minimum wage/low paying positions

Somewhat what you and the next poster after you highlighted better then I did.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Idbatterim

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

id be going further than that over several budgets, one or two more bands and no rate higher than 45% absolute max. Id be using increases in LPT and other land based taxes. Potentially ramping up the reduce vat rate for hospitality and no welfare increases to pay for it...

boardsuser1

Looks like i've alot of catching up to do on this thread.

Idbatterim

Look like i've alot of catching up to do on this thread.

Biggest piss take of a budget I have ever witnessed! after all of fg bluster recently about the tax payer and the extortionate marginal rate :rolleyes:

Hitman3000

Idbatterim wrote:

Biggest piss take of a budget I have ever witnessed! after all of fg bluster recently about the tax payer and the extortionate marginal rate

Every little helps. ; )

boardsuser1

Idbatterim wrote: »

Biggest piss take of a budget I have ever witnessed! after all of fg bluster recently about the tax payer and the extortionate marginal rate :rolleyes:

Let me guess, the gap between the unemployed and employed is bigger thus making it more attractive not to work?

Idbatterim

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Let me guess, the gap between the unemployed and employed is bigger thus making it more attractive not to work?

I think this says it all!

Jobseekers: + €260 PY
20K Worker: + €36.81
30K worker: + €61.87
40K worker: + €236.87
50K worker: + €261.87
60K worker: + €286.87
70K+ worker: + €311.87

Hitman3000

Idbatterim wrote:

I think this says it all!

It doesn't actually. Single worker on 40k versus single social welfare recipient on JSA of 10k not hard to work out who is better off even after deductions.

Chips Lovell

TheDoc wrote: »

In a way trying to convey(obviously in a poor way) that while the headline figures have us nearly reaching full employment and unemployment dropping there is health checks with those figures regarding

• Ratio between Irish vs EU worker allocation
• Ratio between fulltime roles and contract/short term employment
• Ratio between salaried positions and minimum wage/low paying positions

If you're trying to argue that the falling unemployment rate is largely down to the an increase in the proportion of EU workers, you'd be wrong. The total number of people on the Live Register has more than halved from its peak in 2011 to today, a period during which the unemployment rate fell from around 15 percent to 6 percent. So while additional workers entering the economy did play a small part, the vast majority of the fall is accounted for by people who were unemployed leaving the Live Register and re-entering employment.

Are they earning less? Average weekly earnings have increased from around €688 to €722 in the same period.

ricero

Some rant by boyd barrett here

jooksavage

I've read in a few places that Michael Creed has said that the 2% to 6% hike in stamp duty will not apply to farms - is this correct?

VinLieger

ricero wrote: »

Some rant by boyd barrett here

How many times has he tripped over his words due to his outrage being set to 11?

pilly

ricero wrote:

Some rant by boyd barrett here

What was he ranting about?

q2xv9rjei4awgb

pilly wrote: »

What was he ranting about?

Doesn't matter. No one was there to listen to it.

The problem with this country

awec

This post has been deleted.

lawred2

Both the journal and EY budget 2018 calculator for 2018 seem to indicate that married dual income jointly assessed couples will not see an increase to their high rate tax band.. That can't be right can it?

Lackey

ricero wrote: »

Some rant by boyd barrett here

Mick Wallace so incensed he cant form sentences.

For Forks Sake

Lackey wrote: »

Mick Wallace so incensed he cant form sentences.

He doesn't need to be incensed for that to happen. Possibly the most incoherent person ever elected.

flutered

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think this says it all!

Jobseekers: + €260 PY
20K Worker: + €36.81
30K worker: + €61.87
40K worker: + €236.87
50K worker: + €261.87
60K worker: + €286.87
70K+ worker: + €311.87

with an increase in the price of the lecky of 7.50 per month due in febuary, there will be little of the above left, never mind any increase in the cost of living items

lawred2

Donal55 wrote: »

No relief for those who are renting accomodation. Tax reliefs are afforded for mortfages, pensions, health , and other payments and yet possibly the largest expense for an ever increasing number of people does not merit even a mention.

that's because it does nothing but push rent even higher

VinLieger

Seen a couple of SF and alphabet soup dublin councilors asking where their money for social housing and mental health services is after choosing to cut their LPT which funds these by 15%

For Forks Sake

VinLieger wrote: »

Seen a couple of SF and alphabet soup dublin councilors asking where their money for social housing and mental health services is after choosing to cut their LPT which funds these by 15%

They should be called out repeatedly and vocally for that sort of populist nonsense.

lmimmfn

lawred2 wrote: »

Both the journal and EY budget 2018 calculator for 2018 seem to indicate that married dual income jointly assessed couples will not see an increase to their high rate tax band.. That can't be right can it?

Noticed the same from PWC calculator, need to check if better of on single assessment